The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly of Pats' Draft

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly of Pats' Draft

    I don't think NE liked Beatty, and I don't think Vollmer would have been there by their next selection. He was a riser that many of us missed. Beatty kind of dropped a bit because he has short arms. This is the kiss of death. It hit Meredith as well.

    RESPONSE: Yes...I heard that, too. Short arms definately are a detriment to  an OT.  

    But here is what I have read. Because I had Beatty above him as well. Jerry Jones had Vollmer out to his ranch for a personal interview, which is (from what I hear) very rare. There was all sorts of buzz around the kid, based on his EFL experience, and his raw ability. He was rising fast, so aside from how BB ranked him, they had reason to beleive that other teams liked him as well, in the range. Dallas had two picks between NE's two selections. With the second of those two picks they grabbed Robert Brewster, who was ranked much, much lower than Vollmer. That says to me that they went for the next best option when Vollmer was off the board.

    RESPONSE: I wasn't aware of that. It could explain why BB pulled the trigger on Heir Vollmer with the 58th overall pick. 

    According to scouts inc, Vollmer wasn't that much of a reach. They had him as the 9th best tackle and he was the 7th taken. They had him as a mid 3rd, and he was a low second on draft day. BB worked both players out personally, as did Dante Scarnechia, so I think they probably saw something in Vollmer. The thing that makes me very comfortable about it is that BB has an intimate knowledge of UCONN players. He knows them well. That is why I don't sweat passing Beatty or Cody Brown even though they were both in play at #58 for me.

    RESPONSE: Thinking back to 2005, I remember initially being upset over the Pats selecting OG Logan Mankins (I wanted Barrett Ruud), who I, and most everybody else, never heard of. Perhaps Vollmer will develop into as good a player as Mankins.

    It is a little wierd, but all in all. Do you mind the idea of a 6'8" monster on the line? I know you are huge fan of OL play. This kid has the triangle numbers to be something special. Let's hope BB got it right. And lets be serious. Do you think Kazcur has a long term shot at competing with Herr Vollmer? Vollmer could fall forward and be a more effective blocker.

    RESPONSE: Somebody needs to take over for Kaczur at RT, before Brady gets killed. I  always thought that Kaczur would be more effective inside as a guard.

    Posted by zbellino

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly of Pats' Draft

    Yeah, your comparison is apt. Mankins had me scratching my head as well. But the move has come to define the draft. Now we see G/C players going in the first every season. Before that it was rare. Maybe there will be a premium on imported Eastern European giants in the NFL now. It worked in the NBA. LOL.

    I am not a fan of Jerry Jones, but I know he can run a draft with the best of them, well maybe not but pretty close. And he has a monster track record drafting offensive lineman. I mean he put together the single best offensive line I have ever seen on a football field in the early 1990's.

    So I look at Vollmer as a kid with a double seal of approval from two guys I think know what they are looking for in a draft.

    That makes me feel better. Let's hope Herman the German can prove it. I know a 6'8" monster with quick feet and 32 rep strength has upside to be the best OL Ne has got. Proving it is another thing altogether.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BTownExpress. Show BTownExpress's posts

    Re: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly of Pats' Draft

    I don't think NE liked Beatty, and I don't think Vollmer would have been there by their next selection. He was a riser that many of us missed.
    Posted by zbellino


    The guy is a monster! Cool

    "It was during the East-West Shrine workouts that the Patriots took notice of him. Dante Scarnecchia, the Patriots’ assistant head coach/offensive line, then ran UH’s pro day, and he put Vollmer through offensive line drills." (Manfull, 2009)

    http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/6392646.html

    "A First-Team, All-Conference USA performer last year, Vollmer rose up the draft boards over the last few months, using his workouts and performances in the East-West Shrine Game, as well as the UH Pro Day and individual workouts to showcase his skills to the NFL scouts." (University of Houston, 2009)

    http://uhcougars.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/042509aaa.html
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly of Pats' Draft

    ...I am not a fan of Jerry Jones, but I know he can run a draft with the best of them, well maybe not but pretty close. And he has a monster track record drafting offensive lineman. I mean he put together the single best offensive line I have ever seen on a football field in the early 1990's. So I look at Vollmer as a kid with a double seal of approval from two guys I think know what they are looking for in a draft. That makes me feel better. 
    Posted by zbellino


         You have a much higher opinion of Jerry Jones than I do. Jimmy Johnson put together that great Dallas OL in the early 90s, not Jones. Then, Jones let his ego intervene, dismissed Johnson, and allowed Johnson's great team to gradually decay under the direction of weak head coaches.

         Things got so bad, that Jones temporarily set aside his ego, and called upon Bill Parcells for help. Parcells rebuilt the core of the team, and the coaching staff. But then, once again, Jones let his ego get the best of him, and Parcells left for greener (and saner) pastures.

         Once again, Jones has allowed a very good team to decay as a result of his poor personnel decisions. It wouldn't surprise me if the Cowboys finished last in the NFC East.  
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from No1BadGuy. Show No1BadGuy's posts

    Re: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly of Pats' Draft

    On a team that has no clear position heading into the draft where the starter from last year was a sure bet to be replaced other than Vrabel and MAYBE Kazur it seems that it is way to early to be taking and "the bad and the ugly".

    With that being said this draft it seems clear was about adding quality depth.

    The 1st measurable for the "bad" if you ask me will be how many of the picks make the final 53 man roster and the 5 player practice squad.

    The 1st measurable for the ugly will be in a year or two where team team will have many new starters.

    I have said it before and I will say it again this years draft and next years draft are similar in critical nature to the 2003 & 2004 drafts where the aging championship team 2001 vs 2007 (even though they lost the SB) didn't quite make the playoffs (2002 & 2008) and needed a major make over of youth and speed.

    1st pick 2002 #17 traded our 1st, 3rd & 4th for DG and not one fan saw that coming
    2nd round pick (Branch) and we all said who

    1st pick 2008 (Mayo) and we all said what a reach and as it turned out 1 of the best players taken in the 1st round last year
    2nd round pick (Wheatly) and we all said "what the" but before his injury he had made his 1st start and I was thinking he could be a very solid player..

    While it is easy to go pick by pick and play MMQB, none of us as far as I can tell are on BB staff most likely for obvious reasons.

    My point is that it is way to early to know how this draft should be and will be judged and with the 2 additional 2nd rounders next year as well, this draft really can't be truely measured for 2-3 seasons.

    6 Playoff Appearences in 9 season
    4 Visits to the Show
    3 VL Trophies
    102-42 Regular Season Record that translates to a 71% winning percentage
    14-3 Record in the playoffs.

    In BB I Trust!!
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from KyleCleric2. Show KyleCleric2's posts

    Re: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly of Pats' Draft

         Tyrone McKenzie was a good value pick for where he was selected (97th overall)...and he projects to assist at a position of need ILB/OLB. Since Maualuga wasn't selected, the Pats needed help at ILB...and chose McKenzie. Supposedly, McKenzie is better in coverage than Maualuga.      The issue with Maualuga is, should the Pats have taken him at #34 over Patrick Chung? Many folks would argue that Rey is a better prospect...and would have filled a position of need.       What happened with Rey is a mystery. There must be some concerns about is abilities to behave himself off the field...or perhaps some suspicions about drug use. Or...the Pats just felt that Chung was a better prospect, and would be the perfect replacement for Rodney Harrison.      Only time will tell.   
    Posted by TexasPat3


    That's not the issue for the Pats, comparing Maualuga to Chung. The issue is whether BB got the player he wanted for each need he put forth. Chung was his safety. He put in a visit. Brace was his NT. He put in a visit. Same for Tate. Same for McKenzie. Same for Ohrnberger. Does Chung last till 40? Does Butler and Brace last till 47 or later. Does Vollmer last till the Pats pick? Does Ohrnberger last to 170? I wouldn't be surprised if Maualuga wasn't even on the Pats draft board. The Pats draft was full of people who are smart, versatile, good character players. Maualuga isn't one of those. It was obvious from the Bengals draft that they still value talent far more than character.
     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BrooklineRob. Show BrooklineRob's posts

    Re: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly of Pats' Draft

    I was surprised that Hobbs was due that kind of $ this season.  To me, he is average at best at CB, but he is certainly a good kick returner.  That's a lot to pay your kick returner, and with all the depth the Pats have aseembled at CB maybe he was going to lose a lot of playing time.  I think they got what they could for him. 

    I cannot pretend to know all the players the Pats drafted.  I've heard of Chung after seeing this past year's bowl game, and have seen Brace and Butler play a few times.  I really like all of those  picks, but to me, I'm a bit worried that they're trying to replace Wilfork rather than pay him.  (And big Vince has said in two interviews that I've heard that he's not looking for a break the bank deal.)  Brace looks like he can play NT but with Wright and Wilfork how much time does he get?  Don't think he can play DE.  

    It seems like the Pats tried to upgrade thier depth, especially on the O and D lines.  Time will tell.   
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from bunchofpixels. Show bunchofpixels's posts

    Re: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly of Pats' Draft

    In BB you trust??Did Bb realize the draft was this weekend?Did he draft anybody that stands out? Did he pick up a backup QB yet?If not then what the hell are they waiting for?Brady won't last the preseason without that glass knee of his acting up? Then again and I'm a Jets fan-Did any of you ever hear of Mark Sanchez??
    Posted by Jets

    Is that the same Mark Sanchez who backed up John David B00ty?
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from KyleCleric2. Show KyleCleric2's posts

    Re: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly of Pats' Draft

    I was surprised that Hobbs was due that kind of $ this season.  To me, he is average at best at CB, but he is certainly a good kick returner.  That's a lot to pay your kick returner, and with all the depth the Pats have aseembled at CB maybe he was going to lose a lot of playing time.  I think they got what they could for him.  I cannot pretend to know all the players the Pats drafted.  I've heard of Chung after seeing this past year's bowl game, and have seen Brace and Butler play a few times.  I really like all of those  picks, but to me, I'm a bit worried that they're trying to replace Wilfork rather than pay him.  (And big Vince has said in two interviews that I've heard that he's not looking for a break the bank deal.)  Brace looks like he can play NT but with Wright and Wilfork how much time does he get?  Don't think he can play DE.   It seems like the Pats tried to upgrade thier depth, especially on the O and D lines.  Time will tell.   
    Posted by BrooklineRob


    Hobbs hit a lot of his incentives because of the plays he was on the field for. He started throughout his time here.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly of Pats' Draft

    Is that the same Mark Sanchez who backed up John David B00ty?
    Posted by bunchofpixels


    The one an only, had to wait untill all the better SC QBs were gone so he could get a job.  Where are all those "better" SC QBs now?  Yeah lots that's a great pick at 5.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from No1BadGuy. Show No1BadGuy's posts

    Re: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly of Pats' Draft

    Yo Jets,

    Clearly your bandwagon is rolling right along and I bet you already wearing your new Sanchez jersey. Who are you guys throwing to again? Actually your best hands receiver signed with us. It will take Sanchez about 10 throws to realize he had more offensive talent at USC than on your team.

    I'm sure Bart Scott will be puffing out his chest every time he makes a basic tackle like he usually does at his now $8 million a year salary.

    Maybe Rex will be able to get Vernon on the field, but at another $8 million a year, you have spent your money wisely. I'm sure David Harris can't wait for his deal to end so he to can be making $8 million a year as well.

    Your team is spending it's dolllars oh so wisely. Your 2 backs both want new deals and you are already up against the cap..

    Don't you remember that you had a qb in Chad who led you to a 10-6 record and the playoffs several times over the years and then you dumped him for Farve after a season where the team had injuries everywhere.
     
    Oh by the way how did that decesion work out for your team? That's right you lost to Chad at home sending Chad to the playoffs on a team that only won 1 game the year before.

    Your teams quest for the next strong armed pretty boy is just like the Raiders quest for speed at every position and as you know that has worked wonders for them..

    Also didn't BB take O'Connell in the 3rd round last year? So if a 7th round pick who almost was cut during training camp can lead our team to an 11-5 record, what does it say about the overall level of talent on your roster?

    As for the man Brady, just fyi Phillip Rivers tore his ACL, MCL & PCL in January 2007 during the playoffs, rehab to throw for 4000 yards this last year to a bunch of guys who wouldn't make our team so I am sure Tom the great will be exposing your teams defensive flaws like usual. 

    You guys are like the red headed step child there in NY. Like the Islanders compared to the Rangers. The Giants are NY's real team.

    Don't hate the player, hate the game!!
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly of Pats' Draft

    That's not the issue for the Pats, comparing Maualuga to Chung. 
    Posted by KyleCleric2


         It is the issue...considering that the Pats could have had both players at #34. You originally asked me, "why complain about not taking Maualuga as a bad, yet taking McKenzie as a good". Because Maualuga wasn't taken, McKenzie was needed to fill their ILB void.

        
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly of Pats' Draft

         Let Jets fan have their fun. They still have to sign Sanchez, and he won't come cheap. They're probably going to have to pay him $30-35mil. in guaranteed money. He better not be a bust, bacause, if he is, the Jets are toast.

         Furthermore, how good do Jets fans think their team is going to be with Kullen Clemens running their offense? If Sanchez is rushed in immediately, how good is he going to be initially? Its' going to take time for him to develop.  
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly of Pats' Draft

    I hear what you are saying about Jones.

    Here is where I stand on that.

    I think he has a good eye for talent. He has picked up a number of players without JJ or Tuna. Including some of the offensive lineman I remember, Larry Allen and Flozell Adams.

    And as far as I have followed he always had a power sharing agreement with these coaches when it came to player personell. So some part of it is him, some part of it was the coaches (and some part of those championships was Tom Landry, because Irvin, Nate Newton, Ken Norton and a few others were Landry kids IIRC).

    And the stumbling block has always been his massive ego.

    I know he had "power sharing"with Tuna, because they had an interview with it where they said they would negotiate selections together.

    So I see him as a guy with an eye for talent. I mean, if Matt Millen was interested in Vollmer I would run for the hills. And if Vollmer had a handful of DUI's, I could care less if he married Jones's daughter at his ranch.

    However, he is a terrible manager of a football team because he is too obsessed with talent and not concerned with continuity and character. He collects talented players and doesn't build a team if you follow my meaning.

    But would I want him leading my team? No. You are right. He puts together a train wreck. The Cowboys have so much talent but aren't cohesive. They get 55 sacks a season, but can't cover worth a lick, and have an average rush defense at best. They can hook up for 35+ TDs, but I never see them get the tough yards. And when they had T.O. they were a disfunctional pressure cooker. 

    The entire Cowboy team is a bunch of gutless pro-bowl pretty boys. Except for Witten and Ware. They are the real deal.


     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from arodrambone. Show arodrambone's posts

    Re: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly of Pats' Draft

    Beatty actually has very long arms, which is part of the reason I liked him:
    http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ys-heightvsarmlength031209&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

    With an eye toward the 2009 NFL draft class, we can now rank the nation’s top offensive tackles according to their arm length/reach and break down what each measurement means.

    Photo Smith’s reach makes up for his relative lack of height.
    (John Reed/US Presswire)

    Andre Smith, Alabama (6-4, 332), arm length: 35 5/8 inches
    Although Smith is a bit short for the position by NFL standards, his length more than makes up for his height. Smith actually plays more like a tackle who is 6-8. He possesses great feet for his size, but he lacks the kind of explosion needed on his kick step to consistently reach the corner vs. speed rushers. However, it’s his length that will allow him to hold his own in pass protection and engage long-armed defensive ends on the outside and drive them off the ball.

    William Beatty, Connecticut (6-6, 307), arm length: 34¾ inches
    Beatty does a great job getting out of his stance quickly and extending his long arms in pass protection. He showcases impressive hand placement on the outside and is consistently able to engage quickly and keep defensive ends off his body. Beatty possesses the coordination, foot speed and length to man the left tackle spot in the NFL.

    Eugene Monroe, Virginia (6-5, 309), arm length: 34 inches
    Monroe displays good patience in pass protection and has the length to consistently keep linemen off his body. He does a great job extending his arms and plays even longer than his wingspan indicates. There’s no question in my mind that Monroe has the length and overall athleticism to become one of the top tackles in the NFL the next couple of years.

    Jason Smith, Baylor (6-5, 309), arm length: 33¾ inches
    Smith relies on his pure athletic ability and body coordination in pass protection, but he also has enough length to keep defenders off his frame. He will play a bit short-armed at times, but that’s more a result of his lacking technique and continued development as a left tackle. He’ll learn to use every bit of his 33¾-inch reach at the next level once he gets some NFL coaching.

    Michael Oher, Mississippi (6-5, 309), arm length: 33½ inches
    Oher is a big, athletically-gifted tackle who has all physical tools to make it in the NFL. He’s raw from a technique standpoint, and longer arms could help him make up for his consistent false steps and missed assignments. However, 33½ is right around the average length for an NFL starter and is more than enough for Oher to get by.

    Eben Britton, Arizona (6-6, 309), arm length: 32½ inches
    Britton’s lack of length is a concern for me, especially if teams are looking at him as a left tackle prospect. Britton is a polished pass protector who showcases good technique and does a great job extending his arms and getting every bit out of his 32½- inch reach. However, that length is a concern for a left tackle and could force Britton into a right tackle role on some NFL teams.


     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly of Pats' Draft

         Heres' a good article on the Pats top draft choice, Patrick Chung: http://www2.nesn.com/new-england-patriots/2009/04/27/belichicks-second-round-selection-sends-message/
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly of Pats' Draft

    With Tate I think the surprise was more on his failing the drug test than the knee.  After thinking about it most of the pundits out there thought that this could have been a steal.

    I think we can look at McKenzie as being an OLB for us.  High motor rep which was nice to hear.

    In a way I was surprised about you listing Maualuga as the bad.  It was a dream shattered by reality.  The Pats passed on him three times which I think speaks volumns.  Not to mention the other teams that passed on him.  It means he is probably a two down player and the rep of being very undisciplined is true.  Most of us simply had him over valued.  He's simply not what we thought he was.

    Vollmer is an interesting prospect.  To say there were better prospects is probably true appereance wise.  The upside on this guy is suppose to be very high.  Two or three years from now we'll see what he brings to the table.  They could have waited in hindsight but who knows?  This guy was climbing the charts.

    I don't consider Ohmberger a waste.  Ingram was probably selected for special team duties as long snapper and kickoffs.  Something we did need.

    There just were no blocking type TEs in this draft outside of Pettigrew.  The TE thing didn't break my heart much although if you wanted something to complain about you can use this.

    The Hobbs trade surprised me.  I thought they should have been able to get more too.  The only thing that I can think if is to make room under the cap to bring in Jason Taylor or to help with the contracts they have coming up.

    Not too much ugly for me really.  The draft overall worked for me. 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly of Pats' Draft

         Heres' an interesting article on the Pats' draft, by Sean Crowe:

         "Based on the feedback I received over the weekend and today, it appears that most Patriots fans aren’t all that excited about what went on in last weekend’s draft. 

    Most of you seem to be upset that the Patriots didn’t address the linebacker position on day one. Remember what I said leading up to the draft about the Patriots and their draft philosophy. They always take the best guy available. They weren’t going to take a linebacker just for the sake of drafting a linebacker. The Patriots didn’t have any of this year’s crop of linebackers rated as highly as they did Jerod Mayo last year. If they did, they would have traded up to get him. 

    Overall, the 2009 draft was solid, but not spectacular. Patrick Chung and Darius Butler are probably the only two guys you’ll see play extensively this season. Butler is the only guy with superstar potential, but he’s in no way a can’t miss guy. Ron Brace should be a solid two-down nose tackle. 

    Of the day two picks, I think Tyrone McKenzie has the best chance of being a contributor this season. His skills directly translate to what the Patriots want out of an inside linebacker. Belichick spoke extremely highly of him after the draft. He could be in the rotation by the end of the season. 

    I’m not sold at all on Brandon Tate. Not even a little. I understand the pick. There aren’t many first round talents available in the third round. The Patriots had a ton of picks and could afford the gamble. I’m just not sold the guy is ever going to get his act together, especially with the NFL’s trigger happy commissioner. 

    Let me put it this way. Tate knew for four years when his NFL Combine was going to be (well, approximately). How insanely stupid do you have to be to test positive for pot? And if you do test positive, why should I believe that it won’t happen again?

    And if it happens again, he’ll be suspended by the NFL. Which makes him useless.

    I’d love to be proven wrong, but I don’t think I will be.

    I’m rooting hard for Sebastian Vollmer to become a player for a plethora of reasons. The obvious one, his nickname is Sea Bass. His becoming a player would mean the end of Nick Kaczur, which would be absolutely fantastic considering I’m not sure Brady’s knee can withstand the two or three times a game Nick Kaczur tries to get him killed.

    NEPatriotsDraft has the list of undrafted free agents the Patriots (and everyone else for that matter) have signed since the draft ended. Michigan State quarterback Brian Hoyer is intriguing.

    ProFootballTalk.com has a story about Brad Childress bragging about getting one-up on Belichick by drafting Percy Harvin. Childress is a complete buffoon. Good luck with Sage Rosenfels and his druggie receiver friend.

    I’ll get into my thoughts on the rest of the AFC East in more detail later, but here are some quick comments:

    I can’t believe the Bills didn’t draft a left tackle.

    The Jets made the right move giving up what they did to get their quarterback. You need a quarterback to win in the NFL. Before the trade, the Jets didn’t have a single decent quarterback on their roster.

    The Dolphins drafting Pat White is scary.

    Nobody seems to be all that upset about Ellis Hobbs being traded (well, except Ellis himself). Peter King summed up why he was traded nicely in his MMQB column yesterday:"

    "Hobbs is a gutsy, feisty little corner, a confident kid who gave the Patriots some good games covering top receivers. But the Patriots are a totally bottom-line group, and with keepers Terrence Wheatley and Jonathan Wilhite making the team last year, and Darius Butler coming in Saturday, that's three cornerbacks picked in the first, second and fourth rounds of the past two drafts. Bill Belichick figures youth will be served, but I like that acquisition for Philly."



        


     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from KyleCleric2. Show KyleCleric2's posts

    Re: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly of Pats' Draft

         It is the issue...considering that the Pats could have had both players at #34. You originally asked me, "why complain about not taking Maualuga as a bad, yet taking McKenzie as a good". Because Maualuga wasn't taken, McKenzie was needed to fill their ILB void.     
    Posted by TexasPat3


    But if you're saying that McKenzie is a good then you're saying that our take on ILB is good. If you're saying that not taking Maualuga and instead taking Chung was bad then you're saying that ILB still isn't answered and that safety was not a need. Logic in determining what you're defining as good and what is defined as bad is crossed over. Since they're supposed to hold opposite meanings, it doesn't make logical sense.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from 00chief00. Show 00chief00's posts

    Re: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly of Pats' Draft

    2 positions I will never question when drafted is o-line and d-line.
    wasn't makins considered a reach? wasn't ty warren? or even seymore?

    If bb thinks volmer is for real then thats good enough for me. I question other positions but never o-line and d-line.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly of Pats' Draft

    But if you're saying that McKenzie is a good then you're saying that our take on ILB is good. If you're saying that not taking Maualuga and instead taking Chung was bad then you're saying that ILB still isn't answered and that safety was not a need. Logic in determining what you're defining as good and what is defined as bad is crossed over. Since they're supposed to hold opposite meanings, it doesn't make logical sense.
    Posted by KyleCleric2


         Maualuga is a better ILB prospect than McKenzie. But, for where he was selected, and because the Pats had a need at ILB, Mckenzie was a good pick. The question is, whether Chung was a better prospect than Mauluga.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly of Pats' Draft

    2 positions I will never question when drafted is o-line and d-line. wasn't makins considered a reach? wasn't ty warren? or even seymore? If bb thinks volmer is for real then thats good enough for me. I question other positions but never o-line and d-line.
    Posted by 00chief00


         Mankins was considered a reach by some...but not Warren or Seymour. Theres' a hugge difference between those guys and Vollmer...who is a pick that came completely from left field.

         Can you imagine if the Raiders, instead of the Pats, had made such a choice? What would the pundits be saying?
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly of Pats' Draft

    Beatty actually has very long arms, which is part of the reason I liked him: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ys-heightvsarmlength031209&prov=yhoo&type=lgns With an eye toward the 2009 NFL draft class, we can now rank the nation’s top offensive tackles according to their arm length/reach and break down what each measurement means. Smith’s reach makes up for his relative lack of height. (John Reed/US Presswire) Andre Smith, Alabama (6-4, 332), arm length: 35 5/8 inches Although Smith is a bit short for the position by NFL standards, his length more than makes up for his height. Smith actually plays more like a tackle who is 6-8. He possesses great feet for his size, but he lacks the kind of explosion needed on his kick step to consistently reach the corner vs. speed rushers. However, it’s his length that will allow him to hold his own in pass protection and engage long-armed defensive ends on the outside and drive them off the ball. William Beatty, Connecticut (6-6, 307), arm length: 34¾ inches Beatty does a great job getting out of his stance quickly and extending his long arms in pass protection. He showcases impressive hand placement on the outside and is consistently able to engage quickly and keep defensive ends off his body. Beatty possesses the coordination, foot speed and length to man the left tackle spot in the NFL. Eugene Monroe, Virginia (6-5, 309), arm length: 34 inches Monroe displays good patience in pass protection and has the length to consistently keep linemen off his body. He does a great job extending his arms and plays even longer than his wingspan indicates. There’s no question in my mind that Monroe has the length and overall athleticism to become one of the top tackles in the NFL the next couple of years. Jason Smith, Baylor (6-5, 309), arm length: 33¾ inches Smith relies on his pure athletic ability and body coordination in pass protection, but he also has enough length to keep defenders off his frame. He will play a bit short-armed at times, but that’s more a result of his lacking technique and continued development as a left tackle. He’ll learn to use every bit of his 33¾-inch reach at the next level once he gets some NFL coaching. Michael Oher, Mississippi (6-5, 309), arm length: 33½ inches Oher is a big, athletically-gifted tackle who has all physical tools to make it in the NFL. He’s raw from a technique standpoint, and longer arms could help him make up for his consistent false steps and missed assignments. However, 33½ is right around the average length for an NFL starter and is more than enough for Oher to get by. Eben Britton, Arizona (6-6, 309), arm length: 32½ inches Britton’s lack of length is a concern for me, especially if teams are looking at him as a left tackle prospect. Britton is a polished pass protector who showcases good technique and does a great job extending his arms and getting every bit out of his 32½- inch reach. However, that length is a concern for a left tackle and could force Britton into a right tackle role on some NFL teams.
    Posted by arodrambone


         Interesting post. Thanks.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from KyleCleric2. Show KyleCleric2's posts

    Re: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly of Pats' Draft

         Maualuga is a better ILB prospect than McKenzie. But, for where he was selected, and because the Pats had a need at ILB, Mckenzie was a good pick. The question is, whether Chung was a better prospect than Mauluga.
    Posted by TexasPat3


    No. The question is whether Chung and McKenzie are better prospects than Maualuga and the safety alternative. There is also a different question of whether BB saw Maualuga as a better prospect than McKenzie. The question of Chung and Maualuga doesn't have much relavance, the apples to oranges comparison.
     
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