The Greatest Coach to ever walk onto the gridiron!

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    Re: The Greatest Coach to ever walk onto the gridiron!

    No question about it. Has my vote, if I had one that is.
     
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    Re: The Greatest Coach to ever walk onto the gridiron!

    You'll get no arguments from me, but this post is a bit like barging into a Leonard Skynard concert and declaring you're willing to fight anyone who disagrees with your right to fly the confederate flag.
     
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    Re: The Greatest Coach to ever walk onto the gridiron!

    He's the only coach who has won at least fourteen games in a season four different times.

    The Patriots almost seem to be playing a different kind of football this year, as if Belichick had invented a completely new way to play the game, as if he had figured out something about it that nobody has ever seen before.  If you look at the conventional statistics (yards gained, yards surrendered), you would swear they had to be an 8-8 team at best, but the combination of take-away defense and ultra-efficient offense has been unbelievable. 

    The completely amazing thing is that he has built the best team in the NFL and still has a better draft position than the worst teams in the league.  How in the world did he do that?


     
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    Re: The Greatest Coach to ever walk onto the gridiron!

    In Response to Re: The Greatest Coach to ever walk onto the gridiron!:
    In Response to The Greatest Coach to ever walk onto the gridiron! : How about the guy The Trophy is named after: Vince Lombardi? Then there's this slug named Knute Rockne, and a joker named Alonzo Stagg? Want to go more recent, there's Landry, Noll, and Shula. Fughedaboudit! The number of wins isn't the measuring stick. BB's got the luxury to coach more games per year, and have a better opportunity for post season victories than the other guys did. Also, the 12 game schedules were a lot tougher than today, due to expansion and merger over the years. Would you say that Jackson is a better coach than Red Auerbach? How about Wilkins, who has more "wins"? Is Gene Mauch the greatest MLB manager because of the number of wins? Shame that recent Pats fans think that "history" began in 2001.
    Posted by AZPAT



    I hate the argument in general because i do not like to diminish any of the great coaching jobs in history.

    However trying to compare a job did when they could just keep there best players till they were not good anymore because of the way the rules were back then makes it no comparison at all.

    It's much more difficult for a coach to deal with constant turnover and the inability to just keep or get all the best players.
     
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    Re: The Greatest Coach to ever walk onto the gridiron!

    And yet BB has coached during an era specifically designed to eliminate dynasties. Landry and Lombardi were great coaches, but they also had superior rosters to the majority of the league.
     
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    Re: The Greatest Coach to ever walk onto the gridiron!

    "Will you agree that in both cases (SB winning Pats and SB winning Packers) that both coaches kept the best players they wanted on their rosters? And that dollar signs really had nothing to do with it?"

    If you think there are better coaches in history than BB, that's fine. There's a lot of good ones to choose from. But please stop with the nonsensical arguments that the salary cap has no impact on competitiveness. Of course dollar signs have a lot to do with it.

    If you have to work too hard to make an argument, it says something about that argument. Cognitive Dissonance is a terrible thing...Let it go.
     
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    Re: The Greatest Coach to ever walk onto the gridiron!

    I hate the lombardi comparison. The man never had to deal with ANY of the cap, free agency BS.

    There is absolutely no comparing then to now.

    Anyone can read this and see that teams could basically hold captive the players they wanted to keep for just about as long as they wanted.


    Even the Landry arguments vs BB. I would bet you can see a big decline in Landry's stats after he started to have to deal with some of todays issues nearing the end of his tenure.

    And although many poopoo BB for his first head coaching gig in Cleveland. His record was far better than Landry's in the both of their 1st 5 seasons as head coaches.

    Its all apples and oranges. BB, Lombardi, Landry all great coaches. You can't compare them.

    I think its amazing what the Patriots, Colts, and Steelers organizations have been able to sustain in an era where the NFL is desperately trying to cram parity down everyones throats.

    ...and as someone stated already. BB has nothing but respect for the various coaching legends and their respective accomplishments.


     
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    Re: The Greatest Coach to ever walk onto the gridiron!

    In Response to Re: The Greatest Coach to ever walk onto the gridiron!:
    In Response to Re: The Greatest Coach to ever walk onto the gridiron! : Will you agree that in both cases (SB winning Pats and SB winning Packers) that both coaches kept the best players they wanted on their rosters? And that dollar signs really had nothing to do with it? Will you agree ith me that when it was time for a player to be let go, that both coaches did so and filled the roster spot with servicable players they wanted? Remember, while he was able to keep his team pretty much intact, Lombardi coached against teams that could do the same. BB's coaching against teams under the same constraints. So, it is an apples/apples comparrison for the respetive rules under which they both coach. Lombardi could hold onto his players, BB had to replace many; so did the teams they coach(ed) against. They both seem to do it better in their eras. BB's got his Colts, Steelers, and Chargers consistently successful today; Lombardi had his Colts, Bears and Cowboys back then. It is, comparitively, "like to like".  Or, do you actually believe that there was a dearth of "good players" back in the 60's with which ONLY Lombardi was able to corner the market with? Or that ONLY BB has the savy and knowledge to put together a winning team year after year, while NOT winning recent SB's? Careful, the Squeelers have won 2 of the last 4; would appear that they do a better job?)  
    Posted by AZPAT



    in some part yes I would agree but not in totality.

    You can't call the longevity of the success apples to apples because teams now would be able to keep rolling at least theoretically if they did not have to worry about losing players. (ie. branch, samuels, seymour, mankins etc for some examples)

    Unlike 2007 when the Pats were consider to have a pretty good roster although many questioned the D. Most of the other successful years I never really heard many people ballyhooing about the talented roster. Maybe a lil bit of that in 04 as well.

    01 and 06 and this year, heck most years they are having success with not nearly what is considered the most talented roster in the NFL.

    I do not want to say the following with conviction as I am no historian on football but from the classic historical shows I've seen on ESPN or NFL network Lombardi's teams where most often considered one of the most talented rosters if not the most back then.
     
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    Re: The Greatest Coach to ever walk onto the gridiron!

    I think trying to compare coaches from different eras is as futile as trying to compare players from different eras.

    BB is very good and glad to have him and I am sure everyone agrees at least on that much.

    Thats about the extent of it.

    As for who's the "best" don't really care. Just a pet peeve of mine when anyone brings up lombardi straight away and draws a comparison to someone today.
     
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    Re: The Greatest Coach to ever walk onto the gridiron!


    Belichick is a piker.

    He never brought no 7-9 team to the playoffs.







     
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    Re: The Greatest Coach to ever walk onto the gridiron!

    In Response to Re: The Greatest Coach to ever walk onto the gridiron!:
    In Response to The Greatest Coach to ever walk onto the gridiron! : How about the guy The Trophy is named after: Vince Lombardi? Then there's this slug named Knute Rockne, and a joker named Alonzo Stagg? Want to go more recent, there's Landry, Noll, and Shula. Fughedaboudit! The number of wins isn't the measuring stick. BB's got the luxury to coach more games per year, and have a better opportunity for post season victories than the other guys did. Also, the 12 game schedules were a lot tougher than today, due to expansion and merger over the years. Would you say that Jackson is a better coach than Red Auerbach? How about Wilkins, who has more "wins"? Is Gene Mauch the greatest MLB manager because of the number of wins? Shame that recent Pats fans think that "history" began in 2001.
    Posted by AZPAT

    I'm sorry, more games, more competition, so your theory doesn't work.  None of the named guys could handle the complexity of today's game.  You also left out salary cap, free agency, advanced tape study and a host of other things that make today's game incredible difficult to coach.  Shame for you fans that reach back into the past and claim anything from there was superior to today.  Most of those players/coaches wouldn't even make it on a modern team.  The single minded dedication required to pursue a coaching or playing career today was not shared by those past players and coaches, as their own accounts of their behavior indicates.  And the sheer complexity of a modern team would bewilder most of them.  

     
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    Re: The Greatest Coach to ever walk onto the gridiron!

    In Response to Re: The Greatest Coach to ever walk onto the gridiron!:
    In Response to Re: The Greatest Coach to ever walk onto the gridiron! : Ah, but here's the fly in your ointment: Lombardi NEVER had the luxury of having hundreds of millions in yearly TV revenue and revenue sharing to build/keep a team together. Lombardi too a team on a 10+ year losing skein into a winner in year #1, and losing the NFL championship in 1960. After losing to Philthydelphia in '60, he vowed and promised his team that they'd never lose another championship game. A bold statement/promise that he kept. The Pack never lost another championship game under Lombardi. He built, coached, motivated, and willed his teams to win. There were 7 HOF's on the team that he took over in 1959. HE turned that team and those players around. The more you win, the better your chances are of being All Pro and HOF.
    Posted by AZPAT


    The fly in the ointment is that Lombardi did not need millions of dollars in revenue since there was no free agency.  His players had to accept what he offered to pay them.  It does not work that way anymore.  I am not taking anything away from Lombardi, who was obviously a tremendous coach, but he did not have to worry about losing any of those seven hall of famers as long as he wanted to retain their services.  No modern coach has that luxury. 
     
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    Re: The Greatest Coach to ever walk onto the gridiron!

    In Response to Re: The Greatest Coach to ever walk onto the gridiron!:
    In Response to Re: The Greatest Coach to ever walk onto the gridiron! : LMFAO! I did not leave out the salary cap excuse, nor FA. Again, the OWNERS came up with the salary cap to protect themselves FROM themselves. The owners are the NFL; the commish works for them. No player union or judge decreed that the cap MUST be in place. More games equal more competitoon ONLY IF the 16 games are played against 16 different teams, NOT vs 6 in your division, and 4 vs a division in the other conference. Tell us who developed and perfected "advandced tape study"? Lombardi was an assistant under Blake, Army's HC, who had long tape breakdown sessions before your mommy was playing with her Kodak 110 Instamatic or your Daddy his Polaroid Swinger. he brought that to Green Bay and used it to his advantage. His coaching staff ws comperable in numbers to the NFL norm, which was not up to 25 per team. His were that much better than the rest of the NFL. Sad to see that you feel the need to believe that anythng before yesterday isn't relevent or important. I'd take a bunch of "those old guys" over most any HC in the NFL today. Just who do you think put in the work, and laid the foundation to what we enjoy on Sundays today? The players? If they didn't play, they didn't get paid. I'd take a hungry player over today's guaranteed millionaire sitting out with a painful hang nail, headache, or "groin injury", or some other malaise. Injuries happened back then, WITHOUT today's medicine available to tape 'em up and sit 'em on the bench.   Pick up a book and do some reading on the history of the game. "And the sheer complexity of a modern team would bewilder most of them." Sad to think you actually believe this garbage!
    Posted by AZPAT


    The Army head coach was named Blaik.  Maybe you should pick up a book and do some reading about the history of the game. 
     
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