The Greatest Coach to ever walk onto the gridiron!

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    Re: The Greatest Coach to ever walk onto the gridiron!

    In Bill We trust
     
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    Re: The Greatest Coach to ever walk onto the gridiron!

    no matter how anybody looks at it this topic will never end!!I think bb is one of the best but you still got too look back at  where it came from ,who did what for the sport and where it is today
     
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    Re: The Greatest Coach to ever walk onto the gridiron!

    In Response to Re: The Greatest Coach to ever walk onto the gridiron!:
    In Response to Re: The Greatest Coach to ever walk onto the gridiron! : Well, thank you fow allowing me my opinion. Too bad you can't back yiurs up with actual facts or numbers. just a "salary cap" thrown up against the wall. Have you been paying attention to recent history, seing yiu don't believe anything before 2000 ever happened or mattered? Seesm to me the Steelers are the BEST team at handling this cap situation, winning 2 of the last 4 SB's. fter all, isn't winning the LOMBARDI the only measurement of success (see: Manning/Brady and Pats/any other NFL team discussions)? Let's look at the roster BB inherited and won his SB's with. Now, what did the cast off players or those leaving in FA win again? Did he cut loose/allow to leave any player he felt was a vital cog to winning more Lombardis? Seems to me BB did a pretty good job in keeping players and signing others (some call them cast offs). Do you think Lombardi, Landry, etc, MAY have done the same "back then"? My point is, which you obviously miss, is that they all achieved success under the rules they had to play under. How do you think the Colts, Squeelers, Eagles, etc, stay "more than competitive" today? Yet, all 60's franchises except for the Packers were too dumb to figure it out? Trust me that this isn't a hard arguement to make. Your insistance that the salary cap is THE CAUSE of parity is bogus; it's an equalizer at best, much that same as the finances of the 60's was. It's that some do it better than otheres, and BB is one of the better ones. The sadness is that you can't or won't acknowledge anything not "Brilliantly Belichick".
    Posted by AZPAT


    Even the Cowboys front office are in total admiration that BB won the 2 out of 3 SBs
    because it is so hard to keep players.  Your whole team can fall apart in a flash, the no guaranteed contracts and so many things makes it easy to win a 1st SB, but hard to get the second as you can see.

    You make some good points about Lombardi, but today is today, and BB rebuilt his team on the fly, doing so many brilliant things to keep his team competive these days.

    It is a tough topic in any era to discuss, and like most fans of today, outside of baseball, very few great players from the distant past get credit for what they do.  Also the egos are much bigger today with all the money athletes make.




     
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    look, just accept different eras for what they were. each had their advantages and non-advantages. salary cap era has lots of things that make it easier to compete than the non-salary cap one. for instance, a team like NO was stuck with perpetual mediocrity for it could not sustainably compete with the deeper pockets of teams like the raiders, cowboys and dolphins of their day. today, pretty much has equal footing and well-managed teams like pats have the advantage over ones with deeper pockets for everything is noe=w regulated and limited. bottom line is still about WINS, be it in 1940 or 2010, phil jackson versus red and so forth. i am a celtic fan but must give phil his due OVER phil. red had all the stars in a 110 team league. not knocking his success but y knock phil. didnt previous coaches have access to both kobe and shaq, how did that work out? didnt someone have shaq and penny hardaway bak in the day, where are there rings? being able to properly hoard in massive egos is a skill too while managing high expectations! if bill wins 2 more championships, regardless of how he does it, he's the MAN without much debate, in same way most now consider  joe montana the best qb without much debate (not unitas of otto graham).. lf brady gets 5, most debates would be mute.
     
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    Let's ask Bill.  
    I'm good with whatever he says:)
     
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    In Response to Re: The Greatest Coach to ever walk onto the gridiron!:
    Phil Jackson can't hold Auerbach's jock. Jackson never built a thing.  Most overrated coach of in NBA history.  He just strolled onto 2 different teams that had HOFers on them.  How convenient.

    Posted by BBReigns

    We're talking about coaching, not building. If we're factoring in general managing, then it's a different discussion. But this is a thread about coaching. I don't think you can argue, on the one hand, that it's harder to win consistently in the cap era and in a time when there were far more teams in the case of Belichick (which I agree with) but then discount all that entirely when it comes to Jackson. 

    Auerbach built a great team and was able to keep it together, nobody left via free agency. And Auerbach's teams had their share of HOFers, it's not like he was running a crew of albino midgets out there. 

     
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    Re: The Greatest Coach to ever walk onto the gridiron!

    agian too difernt eras cant compare the the too!! all you can do right now is who help the league oue and helped invent the nfl today  and in 20 yrs yes i will say bb was ones of them and did good things but not like  the old days
     
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    who invened the sport and who made it better the lombaris and landrys made it what it is and bb made his carreer out of it and will be a lengend too
     
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    Re: The Greatest Coach to ever walk onto the gridiron!

    In Response to Re: The Greatest Coach to ever walk onto the gridiron!:
    In Response to Re: The Greatest Coach to ever walk onto the gridiron! : We're talking about coaching, not building. If we're factoring in general managing, then it's a different discussion. But this is a thread about coaching. I don't think you can argue, on the one hand, that it's harder to win consistently in the cap era and in a time when there were far more teams in the case of Belichick (which I agree with) but then discount all that entirely when it comes to Jackson.  Auerbach built a great team and was able to keep it together, nobody left via free agency. And Auerbach's teams had their share of HOFers, it's not like he was running a crew of albino midgets out there. 
    Posted by Muzwell
    WELL-SAID! imagine if a belichick or ainge never had to worry about free agency or any turnover? samuels ans any guy we may ave wanted to keep would stilll be here. no need for much thinking. phil is just a coach, who cares who built it? now if you asking about gm/coaches you will have to focus ONLY on the bels, reds, paul browns, andy reids and that small sample. most do not get that opportunity, different level. 
     
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    Re: The Greatest Coach to ever walk onto the gridiron!

    In Response to Re: The Greatest Coach to ever walk onto the gridiron!:
    In Response to Re: The Greatest Coach to ever walk onto the gridiron! : You think Phil Jackson is a good coach or one that is mentioned in the same breath as the all time greats or the best ever, in Auerbach? He just sits there. ...Posted by BBReigns


    Look, I love Red Auerbach. One of the all time greats. Right there with Lombardi on the Mt. Rushmore of coaches. One of the all time great characters as well. I just don't think you can discount all that Jackson has accomplished just because his teams had some great players. It may be a different skill set than it took back in Auerbach's day, or in even Pat Riley's day for that matter, but the record is the record.

    How many titles does Auerbach win without the greatest center in history? Or BB without Brady. Players win games. 

    Again, if you want to make the case that Jackson had no hand in building his teams whereas Auerbach was a master team builder, you'll get no argument here. Maybe had Auerbach not retired so relatively young from coaching, he'd have won five more titles and there'd be no argument at all.
     
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    In Response to Re: The Greatest Coach to ever walk onto the gridiron!:
    In Response to Re: The Greatest Coach to ever walk onto the gridiron! : FA as we now know it started in 1993; the cap started with teh 1994 season. They are forever tied together at the hip.
    Posted by AZPAT


    Dude do yourself a favor go back and actually READ the article form the link I posted and get your facts straight about when and how FA Started and was first implemented and what problems it caused to make it like it did not even exist.

    Go look up about the Rozelle rule that preceded the FA cap and all the nonsense of about unions decertifying and recertifying and the legal battles the players went through to be able to offer there services to other teams other than the one they were playing for.

    It started WAY before the 90's! Sure the "current" system came about because of past things but what are you trying to say? That's just logic. Cause and effect.

    You were the one saying i was being a cap apologist and I was saying I never mentioned the cap but mentioned past teams being able to hold captive there team together. That had nothing to do with the cap as it did not exist back then.
     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Nemeses. Show Nemeses's posts

    Re: The Greatest Coach to ever walk onto the gridiron!

    These debates are to subjective. Hell, no one here is going to tell us they agree with the NFL networks top 100 picks. I have been watching football since, oh 1970, and have seen many great coaches come and go. To say any one was the best of all time is purely my opinion.

    The Packers dominated the 60's, the Steelers dominated the 70's, Niners the 80's and the Cowboys/Niners the 90's. I know, I know the Cowboys won 3 superbowls thru that time but the Niners were always right there. Over the course of 2 decades the Niners have been the most consistent team ever, 1980-1998/99. Not superbowls just damn good consistently, although they did win 5 over that span.

    I THINK for this era, the 2000's era, without a doubt Belichick is the best coach in the game, period. No other coach has put his team in a position to dominate the league this decade the way he has and from the look of things it may continue thru the 2010's.

     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from nyjoseph. Show nyjoseph's posts

    Re: The Greatest Coach to ever walk onto the gridiron!

    There's a simple solution to this argument.  Ever been to Mount Rushmore?  Those are the "guys", see?  Sure, every time a president leaves office there's discussion about another "deserving" guy.  But, really those 4 guys were great. They're all on equal footing (so to speak) on the monument.

    Somebody needs to build the football equivalent of Mount Rushmore.  Whoever builds it has the final say, but it's safe to assume that if you are going to have 4 heads, 2 of them would be Lombardi and BB.
     
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