The idea that NE will be ok once everyone is healthy

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: The idea that NE will be ok once everyone is healthy

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

     

    Wow, you don't believe in injury prone players? Really? So guys that get injured often, more often than odds say should happen aren't injury prone? Well then Ras was a great pick, tremendous pick, excellent decision. Where is he? I'd rather have Sherman who is actually still playing than Ras right now, wouldn't you? This isn't hindsight either as I said when Ras was drafted that he was injury prone and most likely was a bad pick because he wouldn't stay on the field. 2 years later guess what he got cut because he can't stay on the field. Surprise surprise.

     

     

    You certainly didn't tell us to take Sherman in the 5th round now did you, that would have been helpful, I'm glad you've had 4 years to digest the Ras pick and make your bold prediction come true, I mean after all it's not like the average career of an NFL player is three years... oh wait it is.

    Gronk had a bulging disc coming out of college, was he also a bad pick?  What about Vollmer, the best right tackle in the game, he was injured at times also, was he a bad pick, or Talib, he's been hurt in college and the pros, should we have passed on him as well...?

    Your abilities to peer into the future are astounding, please offer Belichick your services, we could really use your ability of hindsight on draft day.

     



    Gronk was a first round talent we took mid 2nd round. Great value at that spot although if he continues to get hurt than it isn't exactly a good pick either now is it?

    Vollmer is a late 2nd round pick that has missed time which has hurt us when he has. But, they've provide proper backup (Cannon) so the drop off wasn't to bad they couldn't sustain it. Notice how they made sure they added the right depth even if he's the best RT in the game.

    I couldn't have guessed at Sherman because I'm not an expert scout which should say something here about even I could tell Ras was going to be an issue. You try to make it should like I'm trying to prop myself up when in fact you are hurting your own argument. By poking fun at me you are essentially saying that someone as low on the scouting ability as myself was smart enough to see that Ras was an injury issue. So why couldn't they? I mean if a 5yr old points out a duck and says it's a duck then a bird expert says no thats a goose only to turn around and say yep that was a duck shouldn't you say well if an untrained observer could tell something so clearly that an expert couldn't maybe there is something wrong with the expert?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from DoNotSleepOnThePats. Show DoNotSleepOnThePats's posts

    Re: The idea that NE will be ok once everyone is healthy

    “PATRIOTS NEED TO SIGN DEION BRANCH OR RANDY MOSS THESE ROOKIES ARE TERRIBLE!!” No. No no no no. No. And here’s why: Kenbrell Thompkins, Aaron Dobson and Josh Boyce have deficiencies that are fixable. Randy Moss, Deion Branch and Terrell Owens (yes, people have actually suggested the Patriots sign TO) don’t. Those fixable errors in the rookies’ games won’t be solved unless they’re playing in real, live-action games. They won’t be fixed in practice. The rookies looked great in the preseason because Josh McDaniels and Bill Belichick scaled back the offense so opposing teams would not glean too much from games that don’t matter. Now that Tom Brady is ordering a non-vanilla offense, they’re having trouble. Plenty of people complain that New England cannot develop young receivers. Those are typically the same people who complain that the team needs to sign a vet. Those people can’t have their vanilla cake and eat it too. Branch knows the offense and has the trust of Brady, but he can’t suddenly attain more speed or separation ability. Thompkins, Boyce and Dobson can learn the offense, and they can get on the same page as Brady. It just takes practice and reps in the offense.

     

    From NESN

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: The idea that NE will be ok once everyone is healthy

    In response to MattC05's comment:

     

    He actually "started" 10 games as a rookie, and saw extended action in 12.  He started out as the dime DB, moved up to nickel CB in game 5 vs. the Giants, and moved into the starting lineup in game 7 vs. the Bengals.  For the point you're trying to make, he had basically a full season's worth of snaps as a rookie.

    You guys are right, I was wrong, I was reading the stats upside down with 2013 on top, either way I wonder how many of you had Richard Sherman on your draft boards... answer = none.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: The idea that NE will be ok once everyone is healthy

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    Gronk was a first round talent we took mid 2nd round. Great value at that spot although if he continues to get hurt than it isn't exactly a good pick either now is it?

    Vollmer is a late 2nd round pick that has missed time which has hurt us when he has. But, they've provide proper backup (Cannon) so the drop off wasn't to bad they couldn't sustain it. Notice how they made sure they added the right depth even if he's the best RT in the game.

    I couldn't have guessed at Sherman because I'm not an expert scout which should say something here about even I could tell Ras was going to be an issue. You try to make it should like I'm trying to prop myself up when in fact you are hurting your own argument. By poking fun at me you are essentially saying that someone as low on the scouting ability as myself was smart enough to see that Ras was an injury issue. So why couldn't they? I mean if a 5yr old points out a duck and says it's a duck then a bird expert says no thats a goose only to turn around and say yep that was a duck shouldn't you say well if an untrained observer could tell something so clearly that an expert couldn't maybe there is something wrong with the expert?



    Clearly 31 other teams missed on Sherman, when nearly a thousand or more players declare for the draft and enter into the undrafted free agent pool that's not surprising.  But not with your gift for hindsight, now if only that translated into draft proficiency you could make a career out of it.  

    Ras was also a first round talent who played a lot in college, really only missing significant time in his final year.  

    There is a gamble on EVERY player you draft or pay huge bucks to as a free agent, nobody can predict the future and it's very easy for you to point fingers and say "I told you so" three or four years down the road.  

    The Patriot's have been wildly successful, so if the end game is to win a lot of games and compete for a championship than there is nobody better than the Patriots.  Thinking you could do better years in hindsight is baloney.

     

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: The idea that NE will be ok once everyone is healthy

    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

    Clearly 31 other teams missed on Sherman, when nearly a thousand or more players declare for the draft and enter into the undrafted free agent pool that's not surprising.  But not with your gift for hindsight, now if only that translated into draft proficiency you could make a career out of it.  

    Yes hindsight, which is why I didn't want Ras in the first place because of hindsight....................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

    You can go back to any point including predraft when I didn't want Ras because of his injures in college. That's not hindsight. Hindsight is seeing a player like Butler who in all accounts should have been able to produce in the pro's and didn't. I haven't said one thing about him though because sometimes you just miss and there was no indication Butler was going to be a miss, however, Ras had so many red flags you'd have to be wearing ruby glasses not to miss them. Oh wait that explains why you thought he was a good pick

    Ras was also a first round talent who played a lot in college, really only missing significant time in his final year.  

    Ras was not a first round talent except in your eyes. He had an early day 2 grade (which is where he was taken) which many thought he'd be drafted in the late 2nd or early 3rd due to injury concerns. Appearently BB didn't think so and drafted him at his peak talent level, which those concerns ended up being true.

    There is a gamble on EVERY player you draft or pay huge bucks to as a free agent, nobody can predict the future and it's very easy for you to point fingers and say "I told you so" three or four years down the road.  

    Yes it is because I was right, as I was about A. Wilson, as I was about Amendola. That's why they pay scouts and talent evaluators to predict the future of these players otherwise why pay these talent evaluators? Might as well sign and draft players using a dart board otherwise because nobody can predict the future.

    The Patriot's have been wildly successful, so if the end game is to win a lot of games and compete for a championship than there is nobody better than the Patriots.  Thinking you could do better years in hindsight is baloney.

     I guess they couldn't have been any more successful than they were. Good to know. I guess also that success can't be put on one of the greatest coachs and one of the greatest QBs to ever play the game? It must be that players like Ras were on the team that made them successful. This is such a cop out statement Wozzy and you are better than this. That's like saying it doesn't matter if they had better WR's in 06' they wouldn't have beated the Colts or that not having Gronk didn't help them in the last SB because they couldn't be any better. The reason their D has stunk for so many years and the only reason they have had so many UDFA's is because they need to replace holes created by subpar draft picks and FA pickups. Back in the SB years better draft picks and FA pickups lead to better and sustainable performance that lasted until those draft picks and FA pickups moved on to other teams or retired. If they continued with the same type of FA pickups and draft picks through that process they would have had greater success but the quality of players they brought in has since gone downhill and they are taking more risks than they did in the past which has only hurt them worse.

     




     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: The idea that NE will be ok once everyone is healthy

    Wozzy for me its always been about "having a plan". Every year there are players I like. I learned a long time ago not to be upset when they arent picked. BB is just very unorthodox in that manner. 3 years ago he took a Cb nobody heard of but said "he is a 4 down player" and he looked good  on his way to all pro honors. 3 years later though he is playing FS and he ISNT playing 4 downs at all. Now Im not complaining because we got a FS, but my point is BB is all over the place. He is like a guy at an auction with too much money. He is buying SH*t he doesnt even need at times just because its a bargain. My beef with BB has never Been "Pick my Guys" or " I can draft better' . My problem is when I hear reports that all the scouts had red flags( he was lazy for one) on Chad Jackson and BB ignored his help and drafted him anyway. Thats a serious Ego problem IMO. THOSE guys ARE experts and spend all year traveling to college games and making notes on each prospect. Game to game they have all the tendencies,etc and all that hard work gets crapped on by a guy who sais Yea, but I WILL MAKE him a player. Thats arrogance, sorry

    Pete Carrol, I like because he has a plan. I was telling folks 2 years ago that BB needs to consult with Petey to build his secondary. in 2010, just 3 years ago, Lawyer Milloy was leading the Seahawks secondary(imagine that 7 years after his release here) and he was finally retiring and their secondary was a mess. 2 years later. Petey finds Browner in the CFL. Drafts E.Thomas # 10. Gets Cam Chancellor in the 3rd and gets Sherminator in the 5th. ALL IN 3 YEARS TIME. He had a plan and executed it. I explained this to Rusty and he said Petey will never win. He cant come to grips with Petey building a secondary while BB has been doing it since 2007!  Petey likes bigger CBs so that why Sherm was there in the 5th. Most teams dont think 6'3" guys will work out. Petey was the only one who thought Tebucky was a CB and he did ok while here. My point is you have to have direction. Our defense should have an identity. Fans have a right to be frustrated when this guy treats picks like lollipops. Sure he gets a lot of them, but maybe HE should trust the guys he pays to scout. Thats All Ive ever said. Others obviously are more harsh. Seems to me he can get it right when its a no brainer(Dennard slipping to 7th) and getting good players that OTHERS drafted (Talib) but in terms of WHAT HE has done. Where are his DB's??? McCourty??  Thats it?  You dont think he has a problem there after what I just layed out?

     oh one last thing. These guys are on the field every week. NO injuries that I know of in 2 years. So not only are they big and fast  and can play, they are durable. SO maybe I didnt have all the answers but u have to ask why we spend 1st rounders on known injury risks when u can find players all throughout the draft. When they DO target a specific player, Its always a reach that noone else was looking at and so far Tavon Wilson...Ummm er yea.

     

    "Take care of my B*tch, I may need her back in a couple years"

    Brady to Manning after Wes signed with Denver

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from NCPatsFan1971. Show NCPatsFan1971's posts

    Re: The idea that NE will be ok once everyone is healthy

    Well instead of looking at a glass as half empty like a few of you do MOST OF THE TIME, how about considering that just maybe the Pat's get their injuries out of the way in the beginning of the season instead of near the end of a season for a change. 

     

    I hate to remind us all that the NY Giants won the Super Bowl after a 9 and 7, 2011 Regular Season.  I'm reasonably sure that Giant Fans had to go through some real stinkers that included a 4 Game Losing Streak.   I also don't know what their injury status was because I don't follow them but they got good and possibly healthy at the right time.

     

    Man, sometimes reading some of these posts here is like going to a funeral where no one liked the dead guy.  :(

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: The idea that NE will be ok once everyone is healthy

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    Clearly 31 other teams missed on Sherman, when nearly a thousand or more players declare for the draft and enter into the undrafted free agent pool that's not surprising.  But not with your gift for hindsight, now if only that translated into draft proficiency you could make a career out of it.  

    Yes hindsight, which is why I didn't want Ras in the first place because of hindsight....................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

    You can go back to any point including predraft when I didn't want Ras because of his injures in college. That's not hindsight. Hindsight is seeing a player like Butler who in all accounts should have been able to produce in the pro's and didn't. I haven't said one thing about him though because sometimes you just miss and there was no indication Butler was going to be a miss, however, Ras had so many red flags you'd have to be wearing ruby glasses not to miss them. Oh wait that explains why you thought he was a good pick

    Ras was also a first round talent who played a lot in college, really only missing significant time in his final year.  

    Ras was not a first round talent except in your eyes. He had an early day 2 grade (which is where he was taken) which many thought he'd be drafted in the late 2nd or early 3rd due to injury concerns. Appearently BB didn't think so and drafted him at his peak talent level, which those concerns ended up being true.

    There is a gamble on EVERY player you draft or pay huge bucks to as a free agent, nobody can predict the future and it's very easy for you to point fingers and say "I told you so" three or four years down the road.  

    Yes it is because I was right, as I was about A. Wilson, as I was about Amendola. That's why they pay scouts and talent evaluators to predict the future of these players otherwise why pay these talent evaluators? Might as well sign and draft players using a dart board otherwise because nobody can predict the future.

    The Patriot's have been wildly successful, so if the end game is to win a lot of games and compete for a championship than there is nobody better than the Patriots.  Thinking you could do better years in hindsight is baloney.

     I guess they couldn't have been any more successful than they were. Good to know. I guess also that success can't be put on one of the greatest coachs and one of the greatest QBs to ever play the game? It must be that players like Ras were on the team that made them successful. This is such a cop out statement Wozzy and you are better than this. That's like saying it doesn't matter if they had better WR's in 06' they wouldn't have beated the Colts or that not having Gronk didn't help them in the last SB because they couldn't be any better. The reason their D has stunk for so many years and the only reason they have had so many UDFA's is because they need to replace holes created by subpar draft picks and FA pickups. Back in the SB years better draft picks and FA pickups lead to better and sustainable performance that lasted until those draft picks and FA pickups moved on to other teams or retired. If they continued with the same type of FA pickups and draft picks through that process they would have had greater success but the quality of players they brought in has since gone downhill and they are taking more risks than they did in the past which has only hurt them worse.

    The draft is a crapshoot, the worth of any player is relative to the GM or team making the pick. Kiper had Mankins rated as a third round pick and called him "a reach," he has been one of the best in the NFL at his given position since he was drafted.

    Great you told us Ras was a bad pick, did you tell us to go get Sherman?  Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

    If Amendola plays through injury or misses one or two games were you right about Amendola? You're very talented at assembling a team, we're all impressed.  Adrian Wilson got injured, what exactly were you right about, did you make such declarative statements about all our injured players, BTW he's still on the team.

    You can't argue with success, that isn't just a pretty slogan.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: The idea that NE will be ok once everyone is healthy

    In response to NCPatsFan1971's comment:

    Well instead of looking at a glass as half empty like a few of you do MOST OF THE TIME, how about considering that just maybe the Pat's get their injuries out of the way in the beginning of the season instead of near the end of a season for a change

     

    I hate to remind us all that the NY Giants won the Super Bowl after a 9 and 7, 2011 Regular Season.  I'm reasonably sure that Giant Fans had to go through some real stinkers that included a 4 Game Losing Streak.   I also don't know what their injury status was because I don't follow them but they got good and possibly healthy at the right time.

     

    Man, sometimes reading some of these posts here is like going to a funeral where no one liked the dead guy.  :(



    Wait they have a choice when they can have injures. Oh that's a different matter. Really man reread what you just wrote. That isn't even half full statement, that's there is a glass in an empty room statement.

    For me there are three types of people:

    The glass is half empty - nothing is ever right 

    The glass is half full - nothing is ever wrong

    The glass is always full (unless you are in a vacuum) - realist who see things could be better but also see some positives.

    I'm a glass is always full person. I like the additions of the rook WRs but understand that it usually takes longer than a year for them to develop and they should have had a proper vet in if they were going to rely on a player oft injured instead of one giant turn over all at once. I also see that on DT they were short sighted the last couple drafts not investing in a critical position of which we've been weaker. Now I have hopes a stronger outside rush and LB core can help overcome it but the lack of rest for Wilfork and Kelly is going to be an issue in game as well as at the end of the season. 

    Point is you can critize the team for certain mistakes (as some mistakes are unforseeable ie Hernandez and not all draft picks working out) while still enjoying the team and routing them on. Critizing the team isn't a sign of being a whinner if you also can see the potential and good points but you have to see both sides. You can't be closing your eyes and curling up saying everything is fine and you can't be pointing fingers every which way and say nothing is working. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: The idea that NE will be ok once everyone is healthy

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    The draft is a crapshoot, the worth of any player is relative to the GM or team making the pick. Kiper had Mankins rated as a third round pick and called him "a reach," he has been one of the best in the NFL at his given position since he was drafted.

    Great you told us Ras was a bad pick, did you tell us to go get Sherman?  Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

    If Amendola plays through injury or misses one or two games were you right about Amendola? You're very talented at assembling a team, we're all impressed.  Adrian Wilson got injured, what exactly were you right about, did you make such declarative statements about all our injured players, BTW he's still on the team.

    You can't argue with success, that isn't just a pretty slogan.



    Oh so if it's such a crap shoot why is it 1st round picks have a higher success rate than UDFAs? I mean it's if so difficult to judge players why is there a clear tread in productive players as you move further back in the draft?

    I'm glad you can't argue with success, just keep on saying that as someone passes you by. Those who don't think they can do better don't and those who try to do better will. But if you don't believe me than take your beef up with BB. He always says you can lose to any team any week if you aren't prepared, so how is it they loss to bad teams if you can't argue with success?

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: The idea that NE will be ok once everyone is healthy

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    Wozzy for me its always been about "having a plan". Every year there are players I like. I learned a long time ago not to be upset when they arent picked. BB is just very unorthodox in that manner. 3 years ago he took a Cb nobody heard of but said "he is a 4 down player" and he looked good  on his way to all pro honors. 3 years later though he is playing FS and he ISNT playing 4 downs at all. Now Im not complaining because we got a FS, but my point is BB is all over the place. He is like a guy at an auction with too much money. He is buying SH*t he doesnt even need at times just because its a bargain. My beef with BB has never Been "Pick my Guys" or " I can draft better' . My problem is when I hear reports that all the scouts had red flags( he was lazy for one) on Chad Jackson and BB ignored his help and drafted him anyway. Thats a serious Ego problem IMO. THOSE guys ARE experts and spend all year traveling to college games and making notes on each prospect. Game to game they have all the tendencies,etc and all that hard work gets crapped on by a guy who sais Yea, but I WILL MAKE him a player. Thats arrogance, sorry

    Pete Carrol, I like because he has a plan. I was telling folks 2 years ago that BB needs to consult with Petey to build his secondary. in 2010, just 3 years ago, Lawyer Milloy was leading the Seahawks secondary(imagine that 7 years after his release here) and he was finally retiring and their secondary was a mess. 2 years later. Petey finds Browner in the CFL. Drafts E.Thomas # 10. Gets Cam Chancellor in the 3rd and gets Sherminator in the 5th. ALL IN 3 YEARS TIME. He had a plan and executed it. I explained this to Rusty and he said Petey will never win. He cant come to grips with Petey building a secondary while BB has been doing it since 2007!  Petey likes bigger CBs so that why Sherm was there in the 5th. Most teams dont think 6'3" guys will work out. Petey was the only one who thought Tebucky was a CB and he did ok while here. My point is you have to have direction. Our defense should have an identity. Fans have a right to be frustrated when this guy treats picks like lollipops. Sure he gets a lot of them, but maybe HE should trust the guys he pays to scout. Thats All Ive ever said. Others obviously are more harsh. Seems to me he can get it right when its a no brainer(Dennard slipping to 7th) and getting good players that OTHERS drafted (Talib) but in terms of WHAT HE has done. Where are his DB's??? McCourty??  Thats it?  You dont think he has a problem there after what I just layed out?

     oh one last thing. These guys are on the field every week. NO injuries that I know of in 2 years. So not only are they big and fast  and can play, they are durable. SO maybe I didnt have all the answers but u have to ask why we spend 1st rounders on known injury risks when u can find players all throughout the draft. When they DO target a specific player, Its always a reach that noone else was looking at and so far Tavon Wilson...Ummm er yea.



    Pete Carroll's plan didn't work in New England with all the grand players Belichick supposedly inherited from Parcells.  Seattle's backfield players don't miss time on the field unless you mean PED suspensions.  Tavon Wilson doesn't look so great, Duron Harmon does, that's what my "crapshoot" references mean.  When BB keeps bringing in more chips to gamble with by smart moves than who are we to disagree.  Nobody can read the hearts of men, nobody can see the future.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: The idea that NE will be ok once everyone is healthy

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    Wozzy for me its always been about "having a plan". Every year there are players I like. I learned a long time ago not to be upset when they arent picked. BB is just very unorthodox in that manner. 3 years ago he took a Cb nobody heard of but said "he is a 4 down player" and he looked good  on his way to all pro honors. 3 years later though he is playing FS and he ISNT playing 4 downs at all. Now Im not complaining because we got a FS, but my point is BB is all over the place. He is like a guy at an auction with too much money. He is buying SH*t he doesnt even need at times just because its a bargain. My beef with BB has never Been "Pick my Guys" or " I can draft better' . My problem is when I hear reports that all the scouts had red flags( he was lazy for one) on Chad Jackson and BB ignored his help and drafted him anyway. Thats a serious Ego problem IMO. THOSE guys ARE experts and spend all year traveling to college games and making notes on each prospect. Game to game they have all the tendencies,etc and all that hard work gets crapped on by a guy who sais Yea, but I WILL MAKE him a player. Thats arrogance, sorry

    Pete Carrol, I like because he has a plan. I was telling folks 2 years ago that BB needs to consult with Petey to build his secondary. in 2010, just 3 years ago, Lawyer Milloy was leading the Seahawks secondary(imagine that 7 years after his release here) and he was finally retiring and their secondary was a mess. 2 years later. Petey finds Browner in the CFL. Drafts E.Thomas # 10. Gets Cam Chancellor in the 3rd and gets Sherminator in the 5th. ALL IN 3 YEARS TIME. He had a plan and executed it. I explained this to Rusty and he said Petey will never win. He cant come to grips with Petey building a secondary while BB has been doing it since 2007!  Petey likes bigger CBs so that why Sherm was there in the 5th. Most teams dont think 6'3" guys will work out. Petey was the only one who thought Tebucky was a CB and he did ok while here. My point is you have to have direction. Our defense should have an identity. Fans have a right to be frustrated when this guy treats picks like lollipops. Sure he gets a lot of them, but maybe HE should trust the guys he pays to scout. Thats All Ive ever said. Others obviously are more harsh. Seems to me he can get it right when its a no brainer(Dennard slipping to 7th) and getting good players that OTHERS drafted (Talib) but in terms of WHAT HE has done. Where are his DB's??? McCourty??  Thats it?  You dont think he has a problem there after what I just layed out?

     oh one last thing. These guys are on the field every week. NO injuries that I know of in 2 years. So not only are they big and fast  and can play, they are durable. SO maybe I didnt have all the answers but u have to ask why we spend 1st rounders on known injury risks when u can find players all throughout the draft. When they DO target a specific player, Its always a reach that noone else was looking at and so far Tavon Wilson...Ummm er yea.

     



    Pete Carroll's plan didn't work in New England with all the grand players Belichick supposedly inherited from Parcells.  Seattle's backfield players don't miss time on the field unless you mean PED suspensions.  Tavon Wilson doesn't look so great, Duron Harmon does, that's what my "crapshoot" references mean.  When BB keeps bringing in more chips to gamble with by smart moves than who are we to disagree.  Nobody can read the hearts of men, nobody can see the future.

     




    Thats fine. We just see it differently. You are bringing up the past which usually is a sign of delfection. I just wanted you to admit that maybe BBs way is flawed but that will never happen. Why do u say Peteys plan didnt  work? Because we didnt win a SB? So if thats true,. BBs plan hasnt worked since Weiss and Crennel left in 04' right?

    Petey made the playoffs with those teams. BB went 5-11 with them. Peteys downfall in NE was being too much of a players coach. Rah Rah, and not discipline enough. So guys were out drunk, jumping in moss pits. Terry Glenn p*s sing on limos. McGinest always getting groin injuries due to not working out in offseason. BB came here and made offseason workouts a priority,. He bought structure. I give him that but he needs GM help. I can say it if u cant. U can ask Patseng what HE knew, but Im talking about SCOUTS that BB IGNORED.  Outside of salary cap, team structure , great coaching and drafting Brady(yea thats alot) He is a mess at the GM position with DBs which is his favorite position to coach? I just dont get it.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: The idea that NE will be ok once everyone is healthy

    In response to NCPatsFan1971's comment:

    Well instead of looking at a glass as half empty like a few of you do MOST OF THE TIME, how about considering that just maybe the Pat's get their injuries out of the way in the beginning of the season instead of near the end of a season for a change. 

     

    I hate to remind us all that the NY Giants won the Super Bowl after a 9 and 7, 2011 Regular Season.  I'm reasonably sure that Giant Fans had to go through some real stinkers that included a 4 Game Losing Streak.   I also don't know what their injury status was because I don't follow them but they got good and possibly healthy at the right time.

     

    Man, sometimes reading some of these posts here is like going to a funeral where no one liked the dead guy.  :(




    Just curious why (logically) that you would think that their oft injured players will be available in the play-offs.  I mean is that the norm or does conventional wisdom say, it ain't happening.

    Same with the Rooks.  How many rookies lead their team to the promised land in their first year.  Do you know they are relying on numerous rookies?  And the odds of those rookies being world beaters is much less than "half-full".  The fact that they are putting hopes on 4 of them is insane.  That's 4 players with a less than poor chance of contributing, instead of one or even two, playing along someone that can carry and guide them.

    I'm sorry, but half full guys are just making excuses as to why half the glass is missing.

    Half empty guys say, where's my stuff and who  is going to replace it?

    Last I checked. "half full or empty teams", don't win SB's.  It generally takes a full glass.

    Now, no one here can fill the glass, but at least we acknowledge what's happening instead of closing eyes and pretending, it isn't so.  Good luck with that.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from NCPatsFan1971. Show NCPatsFan1971's posts

    Re: The idea that NE will be ok once everyone is healthy

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NCPatsFan1971's comment:
    [QUOTE]


     

    "Point is you can critize the team for certain mistakes (as some mistakes are unforseeable ie Hernandez and not all draft picks working out) while still enjoying the team and routing them on. Critizing the team isn't a sign of being a whinner if you also can see the potential and good points but you have to see both sides. You can't be closing your eyes and curling up saying everything is fine and you can't be pointing fingers every which way and say nothing is working."

     

     

     

     

    And unfortunately I did not make my point.  Do I agree that some of BB's Draft Picks were not good?  Yes.  Do I agree that some of the aging veterans that he brought in were not good?  Yes. Do I believe that the team should work hard to draft better and do everything possible to improve what has been a very successful franchise?  Yes.  Do I believe that Brady has made bad plays from time to time? Yes.

     

    But that's not what I was trying to say.  So I will say it again.   WITH SOME POSTERS, EVERY SINGLE POST, EVERY SINGLE THOUGHT IS NEGATIVE.  If the Pat's win by 10, they should have won by 20.  If the Pats had 2 interceptions, they focus on the one that was dropped.  And if they lose?  OMG, it is the end of football as we knew it.  These people who spew nothing but negatives are people that I try to avoid like the plague.  It's like it's raining all the time with them.   

     

    Oh and while were at it let's have the 153,674th discussion of why BB is a bad GM or how Tom Brady has lost his edge.  I'm not saying that you do it all the time but for those that do, it's like beating a dead horse into dust.   But I try to avoid these discussions and perhaps "curl up" when they happen because I believe they are a waste of time. 

     

    The main reason I don't complain about BB's draft choices is that no matter who I would want, I'm absolutely powerless over who he drafts.   And speaking of drafts, I've been a fan for over 40 Years and have seen way too many Early First Round Picks during this time.  I'm actually glad that we're not drafting early because I remember what it was like when we did. 

     

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: The idea that NE will be ok once everyone is healthy

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    Thats fine. We just see it differently. You are bringing up the past which usually is a sign of delfection. I just wanted you to admit that maybe BBs way is flawed but that will never happen. Why do u say Peteys plan didnt  work? Because we didnt win a SB? So if thats true,. BBs plan hasnt worked since Weiss and Crennel left in 04' right?

    Petey made the playoffs with those teams. BB went 5-11 with them. Peteys downfall in NE was being too much of a players coach. Rah Rah, and not discipline enough. So guys were out drunk, jumping in moss pits. Terry Glenn p*s sing on limos. McGinest always getting groin injuries due to not working out in offseason. BB came here and made offseason workouts a priority,. He bought structure. I give him that but he needs GM help. I can say it if u cant. U can ask Patseng what HE knew, but Im talking about SCOUTS that BB IGNORED.  Outside of salary cap, team structure , great coaching and drafting Brady(yea thats alot) He is a mess at the GM position with DBs which is his favorite position to coach? I just dont get it.



    You brought up Pete Carroll not me, I just reminded you he has won zero NFL titles.  He also went 10-6, 9-7 and 8-8 with the Patriots, a year later after two drafts Belichick won a ring and then followed it up with two more in three years with the same team.

    I wouldn't say BB's plan hasn't worked since Weis and Crennel left, though I will agree the biggest challenge for Belichick has been loss and turnover of coaches and not a lack of talent.  I would also add that those senior coaches had a better idea of what BB and the team needed so it also has an adverse effect on drafting, this doesn't mean Belichick can't spot talent.  The losses of McDaniels the first time, Mangini, Steve Woicik, Pioli etc... continued to hurt this team long after Weis and Crennel were gone.

    I have always been critical of the team's decision to cap how much they pay assistant coaches, especially offensive coordinator because it is not a strength of BB's, still that is coaching not his ability as GM and that decision might very well be from the Krafts above, I don't know.  For people who insist I am a "homer" this has been a criticism of mine for years.

    Asante Samuel, Eugene Wilson, Ellis Hobbs, Logan Ryan and Duron Harmon all look pretty good to me, I don't see a flaw with his ability to draft any singular position, I just see a tougher position to fill than say O line or tight end.  

    There is also the simple fact that they've used up all of the equity built up from the early years, the multiple #1 picks and ability to sneak up on people in the draft and have been picking from the bottom of the barrel for years now because they win.

    It's easy to point at any singular player like TY Hilton and play "what if," but assuming he could thrive in this offense or environment is not always a sure thing.  Coming into the worst team and trying to make a name for yourself is easier than trying to make the best team in the league with better players ahead of you getting reps.  

    This isn't an easy place to play, only the strong survive, but it produces winning results, results that can't be argued with.  If anyone has had a better long term "plan" then Belichick or been as successful for this long, I'd suggest you to produce him?  It isn't Pete Carroll.

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from NCPatsFan1971. Show NCPatsFan1971's posts

    Re: The idea that NE will be ok once everyone is healthy

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

     

    In response to NCPatsFan1971's comment:

     

     

    Well instead of looking at a glass as half empty like a few of you do MOST OF THE TIME, how about considering that just maybe the Pat's get their injuries out of the way in the beginning of the season instead of near the end of a season for a change. 

     

    I hate to remind us all that the NY Giants won the Super Bowl after a 9 and 7, 2011 Regular Season.  I'm reasonably sure that Giant Fans had to go through some real stinkers that included a 4 Game Losing Streak.   I also don't know what their injury status was because I don't follow them but they got good and possibly healthy at the right time.

     

    Man, sometimes reading some of these posts here is like going to a funeral where no one liked the dead guy.  :(

     

     




    Just curious why (logically) that you would think that their oft injured players will be available in the play-offs.  I mean is that the norm or does conventional wisdom say, it ain't happening.

     

     

    Same with the Rooks.  How many rookies lead their team to the promised land in their first year.  Do you know they are relying on numerous rookies?  And the odds of those rookies being world beaters is much less than "half-full".  The fact that they are putting hopes on 4 of them is insane.  That's 4 players with a less than poor chance of contributing, instead of one or even two, playing along someone that can carry and guide them.

    I'm sorry, but half full guys are just making excuses as to why half the glass is missing.

    Half empty guys say, where's my stuff and who  is going to replace it?

    Last I checked. "half full or empty teams", don't win SB's.  It generally takes a full glass.

    Now, no one here can fill the glass, but at least we acknowledge what's happening instead of closing eyes and pretending, it isn't so.  Good luck with that.




     

    Just your first sentence alone proves my point about taking a semi positive statement and then defecating all over it.

     

    OK, Gronk, DA, SV will probably end up on Season Ending IR among others.  The Team will probably go 5 and 11 and finish at the Bottom of the AFC East.  BB will be fired after such a miserable season.  TB is probably going to pack it in and retire to Brazil .  And in the End we'll all be dead.

     

    Is that gloomy enough for you?   

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: The idea that NE will be ok once everyone is healthy

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

     

    Thats fine. We just see it differently. You are bringing up the past which usually is a sign of delfection. I just wanted you to admit that maybe BBs way is flawed but that will never happen. Why do u say Peteys plan didnt  work? Because we didnt win a SB? So if thats true,. BBs plan hasnt worked since Weiss and Crennel left in 04' right?

    Petey made the playoffs with those teams. BB went 5-11 with them. Peteys downfall in NE was being too much of a players coach. Rah Rah, and not discipline enough. So guys were out drunk, jumping in moss pits. Terry Glenn p*s sing on limos. McGinest always getting groin injuries due to not working out in offseason. BB came here and made offseason workouts a priority,. He bought structure. I give him that but he needs GM help. I can say it if u cant. U can ask Patseng what HE knew, but Im talking about SCOUTS that BB IGNORED.  Outside of salary cap, team structure , great coaching and drafting Brady(yea thats alot) He is a mess at the GM position with DBs which is his favorite position to coach? I just dont get it.

     



    You brought up Pete Carroll not me, I just reminded you he has won zero NFL titles.  He also went 10-6, 9-7 and 8-8 with the Patriots, a year later after two drafts Belichick won a ring and then followed it up with two more in three years with the same team.

     

    I wouldn't say BB's plan hasn't worked since Weis and Crennel left, though I will agree the biggest challenge for Belichick has been loss and turnover of coaches and not a lack of talent.  I would also add that those senior coaches had a better idea of what BB and the team needed so it also has an adverse effect on drafting, this doesn't mean Belichick can't spot talent.  The losses of McDaniels the first time, Mangini, Steve Woicik, Pioli etc... continued to hurt this team long after Weis and Crennel were gone.

    I have always been critical of the team's decision to cap how much they pay assistant coaches, especially offensive coordinator because it is not a strength of BB's, still that is coaching not his ability as GM and that decision might very well be from the Krafts above, I don't know.  For people who insist I am a "homer" this has been a criticism of mine for years.

    Asante Samuel, Eugene Wilson, Ellis Hobbs, Logan Ryan and Duron Harmon all look pretty good to me, I don't see a flaw with his ability to draft any singular position, I just see a tougher position to fill than say O line or tight end.  

    There is also the simple fact that they've used up all of the equity built up from the early years, the multiple #1 picks and ability to sneak up on people in the draft and have been picking from the bottom of the barrel for years now because they win.

    It's easy to point at any singular player like TY Hilton and play "what if," but assuming he could thrive in this offense or environment is not always a sure thing.  Coming into the worst team and trying to make a name for yourself is easier than trying to make the best team in the league with better players ahead of you getting reps.  

    This isn't an easy place to play, only the strong survive, but it produces winning results, results that can't be argued with.  If anyone has had a better long term "plan" then Belichick or been as successful for this long, I'd suggest you to produce him?  It isn't Pete Carroll.

     



    I bought up what Petey is doing Now. You came back with "peteys plan didnt work back then" to which I said why? because of not winning it all?  Sure BB won a SB AFTER drafted Brady to which I give credit. You can shorten that list you made of Dbs to 1 (Asante Samuel). We all saw Wilson was a bum once Rodney left and the fact he left without an offer and disappeared in Houston as a jag? Ok, we can fit Wilson in there...BUT Logan Ryan!?? and Harmon??  LMAO!   The guy who has played in 2 NFL snaps??  OH mY, Wozzy You cant admit BB has had a problem drafting CBs??? The one guy who is legit on your list was JUST replaced after  5 years!  Ijs man, give credit where it is due. After what I just typed, you can come away with "draft is a crapshoot" 

    I will admit the coaching was a big loss, but in terms of GM. BB needs help drafting DBs. I thought I did a pretty good job of proving that.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: The idea that NE will be ok once everyone is healthy

    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

    The draft is a crapshoot, the worth of any player is relative to the GM or team making the pick. Kiper had Mankins rated as a third round pick and called him "a reach," he has been one of the best in the NFL at his given position since he was drafted.

    Great you told us Ras was a bad pick, did you tell us to go get Sherman?  Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

    If Amendola plays through injury or misses one or two games were you right about Amendola? You're very talented at assembling a team, we're all impressed.  Adrian Wilson got injured, what exactly were you right about, did you make such declarative statements about all our injured players, BTW he's still on the team.

    You can't argue with success, that isn't just a pretty slogan.



    Don't get me wrong here. I am totally behind satying the course with the rooks. However, I have to disagree with a few things you are saying here.

    1) Uncertainty is a reality drafting, but drafting is not a total crapshoot. If you truly believe that then the logical conclusion is for the Pats to abolish the scouting department and just pick BAT or BAT of need according to the "market's big board". In a total crapshoot, the results of either approach should be the same.

    2) Just because Mankins turned out to be much better than Kiper thought does not mean the pick was not a reach. As analogy, look at the prospects as goods. If the market is valuing the good at $40, why pay $80 just because you value it at $100. I believe the assessments of the Kipers of the world is probably closer to market valuation.

    The draft actually is almost like a sealed auction. There will be particpants who overbid and those that underbid. The difference is that during drafts, there is some information, albeit imperfect, where the market is valung the good. It worked out with Mankins. I think BB suffered what's referred to as winner's curse with T Wilson.

    3) Ras had an injury history that went all the way back to HS. There is a pretty long pattern. That's very different from Gronk having one issue in college. In a process with so much uncertainty, such as the draft, you are trying to manage risk. A long history of injury is probably a sound strategy for reducing risk of decisions.

     

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: The idea that NE will be ok once everyone is healthy

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:

    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

     

    The draft is a crapshoot, the worth of any player is relative to the GM or team making the pick. Kiper had Mankins rated as a third round pick and called him "a reach," he has been one of the best in the NFL at his given position since he was drafted.

    Great you told us Ras was a bad pick, did you tell us to go get Sherman?  Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

    If Amendola plays through injury or misses one or two games were you right about Amendola? You're very talented at assembling a team, we're all impressed.  Adrian Wilson got injured, what exactly were you right about, did you make such declarative statements about all our injured players, BTW he's still on the team.

    You can't argue with success, that isn't just a pretty slogan.

     



    Don't get me wrong here. I am totally behind satying the course with the rooks. However, I have to disagree with a few things you are saying here.

     

    1) Uncertainty is a reality drafting, but drafting is not a total crapshoot. If you truly believe that then the logical conclusion is for the Pats to abolish the scouting department and just pick BAT or BAT of need according to the "market's big board". In a total crapshoot, the results of either approach should be the same.

    2) Just because Mankins turned out to be much better than Kiper thought does not mean the pick was not a reach. As analogy, look at the prospects as goods. If the market is valuing the good at $40, why pay $80 just because you value it at $100. I believe the assessments of the Kipers of the world is probably closer to market valuation.

    The draft actually is almost like a sealed auction. There will be particpants who overbid and those that underbid. The difference is that during drafts, there is some information, albeit imperfect, where the market is valung the good. It worked out with Mankins. I think BB suffered what's referred to as winner's curse with T Wilson.

    3) Ras had an injury history that went all the way back to HS. There is a pretty long pattern. That's very different from Gronk having one issue in college. In a process with so much uncertainty, such as the draft, you are trying to manage risk. A long history of injury is probably a sound strategy for reducing risk of decisions.

     

     



    Exactly. Its more than a crapshoot IF you USE your Resources. Mankins did look like a steal his first 2 years but Im sorry, the guy has been overpaid since. Rookie year he was mauling guys 20 yards downfield and I recall saying "ok, thats why" but money changed him. Now he is just our cheap shot artist who leads our line in penalties. I wish they would  let him walk esp. when Connolly played better. Im just saying. Its a risk, but BB goes after TOO many risks IMO to save a buck

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: The idea that NE will be ok once everyone is healthy

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    Wozzy for me its always been about "having a plan". Every year there are players I like. I learned a long time ago not to be upset when they arent picked. BB is just very unorthodox in that manner. 3 years ago he took a Cb nobody heard of but said "he is a 4 down player" and he looked good  on his way to all pro honors. 3 years later though he is playing FS and he ISNT playing 4 downs at all. Now Im not complaining because we got a FS, but my point is BB is all over the place. He is like a guy at an auction with too much money. He is buying SH*t he doesnt even need at times just because its a bargain. My beef with BB has never Been "Pick my Guys" or " I can draft better' . My problem is when I hear reports that all the scouts had red flags( he was lazy for one) on Chad Jackson and BB ignored his help and drafted him anyway. Thats a serious Ego problem IMO. THOSE guys ARE experts and spend all year traveling to college games and making notes on each prospect. Game to game they have all the tendencies,etc and all that hard work gets crapped on by a guy who sais Yea, but I WILL MAKE him a player. Thats arrogance, sorry

    ...



    You are on to something. I am always glad to give BB the benefit of the doubt given what the team has accomplished, but I too think he has been pretty inconsistent with his approach to drafting (you say all over the place).

    1) He seems like a value seeker. You see that in how he tries to get players that people undervalue and how he trades down all the time. Yet when you think about it, doesn't make sense to pick where they are, and pick the player that the market seems to perceive as the right pick at the spot (which in BB's mind is a kid who is being overvalued), and somehow flip that around? That way he still gets the kid he likes and the market is undervaluing, and then more. It's one thing to not get caught up with the shiniest thing on the shelf, but hey, if you can get more from it why not get it?

    2) I seem to remember Pioli saying, back when he was still with the Pats, that the Pats avoid being in love with a player. Yet BB's behavior is just that. He gets fixated on some kid and regardless of whether the market puts a much lower value on that kid. 

    3) He also seems like a very risk averse draft picker. Over the years I realized he is averse to some kinds of risk only. Five years ago, I thought he was averse to off the field behavioral risk. Then he picked up AH. He obviously is not averse to risk that comes with players who have injury histories. I am starting to think that the risk he most cares about is the risk of a player having the guts to express questions about his approach. I am not saying that's right or wrong. I can see how that can be a distraction.

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: The idea that NE will be ok once everyone is healthy

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    Wozzy for me its always been about "having a plan". Every year there are players I like. I learned a long time ago not to be upset when they arent picked. BB is just very unorthodox in that manner. 3 years ago he took a Cb nobody heard of but said "he is a 4 down player" and he looked good  on his way to all pro honors. 3 years later though he is playing FS and he ISNT playing 4 downs at all. Now Im not complaining because we got a FS, but my point is BB is all over the place. He is like a guy at an auction with too much money. He is buying SH*t he doesnt even need at times just because its a bargain. My beef with BB has never Been "Pick my Guys" or " I can draft better' . My problem is when I hear reports that all the scouts had red flags( he was lazy for one) on Chad Jackson and BB ignored his help and drafted him anyway. Thats a serious Ego problem IMO. THOSE guys ARE experts and spend all year traveling to college games and making notes on each prospect. Game to game they have all the tendencies,etc and all that hard work gets crapped on by a guy who sais Yea, but I WILL MAKE him a player. Thats arrogance, sorry

    ...

     



    You are on to something. I am always glad to give BB the benefit of the doubt given what the team has accomplished, but I too think he has been pretty inconsistent with his approach to drafting (you say all over the place).

     

    1) He seems like a value seeker. You see that in how he tries to get players that people undervalue and how he trades down all the time. Yet when you think about it, doesn't make sense to pick where they are, and pick the player that the market seems to perceive as the right pick at the spot (which in BB's mind is a kid who is being overvalued), and somehow flip that around? That way he still gets the kid he likes and the market is undervaluing, and then more. It's one thing to not get caught up with the shiniest thing on the shelf, but hey, if you can get more from it why not get it?

    2) I seem to remember Pioli saying, back when he was still with the Pats, that the Pats avoid being in love with a player. Yet BB's behavior is just that. He gets fixated on some kid and regardless of whether the market puts a much lower value on that kid. 

    3) He also seems like a very risk averse draft picker. Over the years I realized he is averse to some kinds of risk only. Five years ago, I thought he was averse to off the field behavioral risk. Then he picked up AH. He obviously is not averse to risk that comes with players who have injury histories. I am starting to think that the risk he most cares about is the risk of a player having the guts to express questions about his approach. I am not saying that's right or wrong. I can see how that can be a distraction.

     




    DOnt know if was the same article I read. I remember them saying they had to make a rule that whenever they were at odds about a player(I want A and you want C) they would both mutually agree to take said players off the board as to not cause conflict. Now how many good players you think we missed on JUST because of That Idealogy. So once Pioli left the drafts looked better for the most part but still all over the place because now noone was there to keep BB from reaching for guys like Wilson. It could very well mean he needs help. I mean he is older. Maybe his abilty to spot a good player has regressed. Wasnt Al Davis much worse in his later years than he was in his prime???  We all need help at times. Whats the big deal...oh yea, BB has an ego and Kraft has a hot young chic half his age....lol

    Gotta pay for Bo ob Jobs!

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: The idea that NE will be ok once everyone is healthy

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:

     

    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

     

    The draft is a crapshoot, the worth of any player is relative to the GM or team making the pick. Kiper had Mankins rated as a third round pick and called him "a reach," he has been one of the best in the NFL at his given position since he was drafted.

    Great you told us Ras was a bad pick, did you tell us to go get Sherman?  Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

    If Amendola plays through injury or misses one or two games were you right about Amendola? You're very talented at assembling a team, we're all impressed.  Adrian Wilson got injured, what exactly were you right about, did you make such declarative statements about all our injured players, BTW he's still on the team.

    You can't argue with success, that isn't just a pretty slogan.

     



    Don't get me wrong here. I am totally behind satying the course with the rooks. However, I have to disagree with a few things you are saying here.

     

    1) Uncertainty is a reality drafting, but drafting is not a total crapshoot. If you truly believe that then the logical conclusion is for the Pats to abolish the scouting department and just pick BAT or BAT of need according to the "market's big board". In a total crapshoot, the results of either approach should be the same.

    2) Just because Mankins turned out to be much better than Kiper thought does not mean the pick was not a reach. As analogy, look at the prospects as goods. If the market is valuing the good at $40, why pay $80 just because you value it at $100. I believe the assessments of the Kipers of the world is probably closer to market valuation.

    The draft actually is almost like a sealed auction. There will be particpants who overbid and those that underbid. The difference is that during drafts, there is some information, albeit imperfect, where the market is valung the good. It worked out with Mankins. I think BB suffered what's referred to as winner's curse with T Wilson.

    3) Ras had an injury history that went all the way back to HS. There is a pretty long pattern. That's very different from Gronk having one issue in college. In a process with so much uncertainty, such as the draft, you are trying to manage risk. A long history of injury is probably a sound strategy for reducing risk of decisions.

     

     

     



    Exactly. Its more than a crapshoot IF you USE your Resources. Mankins did look like a steal his first 2 years but Im sorry, the guy has been overpaid since. Rookie year he was mauling guys 20 yards downfield and I recall saying "ok, thats why" but money changed him. Now he is just our cheap shot artist who leads our line in penalties. I wish they would  let him walk esp. when Connolly played better. Im just saying. Its a risk, but BB goes after TOO many risks IMO to save a buck

     



    I do think the OL is not tough enough when having to run block, so I want some nastiness out there. I also believe you can be nasty without being a sheap shot.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: The idea that NE will be ok once everyone is healthy

    cheap shot that is

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: The idea that NE will be ok once everyone is healthy


    We know BB likes to get "value". In some ways, that method of drafting has it's pros and cons. Seems like BB does pass by players with "known" qualities for others who dropped down on the draft board (for whatever reason). No, there's ultimately no way for him to know what will happen to that player (i.e., Gronk vs. Hernandez vs. ...). But it seems to me - that if he selects a player that has dropped signficantly (which increases the perception of greater value) - it merely increased the odds that the draft is going to "fail" anyway.  I mean, there's a reason why the player dropped in the draft, right?

    If the draft works out, BB is a GM genius. If it doesn't work out, he's not.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: The idea that NE will be ok once everyone is healthy

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:

     

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    Wozzy for me its always been about "having a plan". Every year there are players I like. I learned a long time ago not to be upset when they arent picked. BB is just very unorthodox in that manner. 3 years ago he took a Cb nobody heard of but said "he is a 4 down player" and he looked good  on his way to all pro honors. 3 years later though he is playing FS and he ISNT playing 4 downs at all. Now Im not complaining because we got a FS, but my point is BB is all over the place. He is like a guy at an auction with too much money. He is buying SH*t he doesnt even need at times just because its a bargain. My beef with BB has never Been "Pick my Guys" or " I can draft better' . My problem is when I hear reports that all the scouts had red flags( he was lazy for one) on Chad Jackson and BB ignored his help and drafted him anyway. Thats a serious Ego problem IMO. THOSE guys ARE experts and spend all year traveling to college games and making notes on each prospect. Game to game they have all the tendencies,etc and all that hard work gets crapped on by a guy who sais Yea, but I WILL MAKE him a player. Thats arrogance, sorry

    ...

     



    You are on to something. I am always glad to give BB the benefit of the doubt given what the team has accomplished, but I too think he has been pretty inconsistent with his approach to drafting (you say all over the place).

     

    1) He seems like a value seeker. You see that in how he tries to get players that people undervalue and how he trades down all the time. Yet when you think about it, doesn't make sense to pick where they are, and pick the player that the market seems to perceive as the right pick at the spot (which in BB's mind is a kid who is being overvalued), and somehow flip that around? That way he still gets the kid he likes and the market is undervaluing, and then more. It's one thing to not get caught up with the shiniest thing on the shelf, but hey, if you can get more from it why not get it?

    2) I seem to remember Pioli saying, back when he was still with the Pats, that the Pats avoid being in love with a player. Yet BB's behavior is just that. He gets fixated on some kid and regardless of whether the market puts a much lower value on that kid. 

    3) He also seems like a very risk averse draft picker. Over the years I realized he is averse to some kinds of risk only. Five years ago, I thought he was averse to off the field behavioral risk. Then he picked up AH. He obviously is not averse to risk that comes with players who have injury histories. I am starting to think that the risk he most cares about is the risk of a player having the guts to express questions about his approach. I am not saying that's right or wrong. I can see how that can be a distraction.

     

     




    DOnt know if was the same article I read. I remember them saying they had to make a rule that whenever they were at odds about a player(I want A and you want C) they would both mutually agree to take said players off the board as to not cause conflict. Now how many good players you think we missed on JUST because of That Idealogy. So once Pioli left the drafts looked better for the most part but still all over the place because now noone was there to keep BB from reaching for guys like Wilson. It could very well mean he needs help. I mean he is older. Maybe his abilty to spot a good player has regressed. Wasnt Al Davis much worse in his later years than he was in his prime???  We all need help at times. Whats the big deal...oh yea, BB has an ego and Kraft has a hot young chic half his age....lol

     

    Gotta pay for Bo ob Jobs!




    I do not think there is anything wrong with the idea of not getting fixated on a player. I think the approach you described is just the wrong way to resolve teh conflict. Yeah, sometimes the cure is worse than the disease.

     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share