The idea that NE will be ok once everyone is healthy

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: The idea that NE will be ok once everyone is healthy

    In response to digger0862's comment:

     

    What makes you think they won't?

     

    The Patriots let guys go a year or two early rather than a year or two late. Goodbye Wes.

    Lloyd was ok but I'll take the youngins.

    The Hernandez situation is unfortunate and they will pay for that one.

    Amendola will be a major contributor. Since neither of us can predict the future, my statement is just as valid as yours.

    Incredelman is a great punt returner. But he's much more than that. You should watch a game sometime.

    The rookies will improve. That's my take.



    What makes me think they won't is the fact that very, very few people on the face of the planet are good enough to make it to an NFL roster.  All we know about these guys is their college resumes and what they've done so far.

    So far, they've done nothing.

    I hope to high heavens that they do improve and this whole topic is for naught.  I don't think that's going to be the case, however.

    I should watch a game some time?  I have missed about 10 games over the past 20 years.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: The idea that NE will be ok once everyone is healthy

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:

     

     

    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

     

    The draft is a crapshoot, the worth of any player is relative to the GM or team making the pick. Kiper had Mankins rated as a third round pick and called him "a reach," he has been one of the best in the NFL at his given position since he was drafted.

    Great you told us Ras was a bad pick, did you tell us to go get Sherman?  Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

    If Amendola plays through injury or misses one or two games were you right about Amendola? You're very talented at assembling a team, we're all impressed.  Adrian Wilson got injured, what exactly were you right about, did you make such declarative statements about all our injured players, BTW he's still on the team.

    You can't argue with success, that isn't just a pretty slogan.

     



    Don't get me wrong here. I am totally behind satying the course with the rooks. However, I have to disagree with a few things you are saying here.

     

    1) Uncertainty is a reality drafting, but drafting is not a total crapshoot. If you truly believe that then the logical conclusion is for the Pats to abolish the scouting department and just pick BAT or BAT of need according to the "market's big board". In a total crapshoot, the results of either approach should be the same.

    2) Just because Mankins turned out to be much better than Kiper thought does not mean the pick was not a reach. As analogy, look at the prospects as goods. If the market is valuing the good at $40, why pay $80 just because you value it at $100. I believe the assessments of the Kipers of the world is probably closer to market valuation.

    The draft actually is almost like a sealed auction. There will be particpants who overbid and those that underbid. The difference is that during drafts, there is some information, albeit imperfect, where the market is valung the good. It worked out with Mankins. I think BB suffered what's referred to as winner's curse with T Wilson.

    3) Ras had an injury history that went all the way back to HS. There is a pretty long pattern. That's very different from Gronk having one issue in college. In a process with so much uncertainty, such as the draft, you are trying to manage risk. A long history of injury is probably a sound strategy for reducing risk of decisions.

     

     

     

     



    Exactly. Its more than a crapshoot IF you USE your Resources. Mankins did look like a steal his first 2 years but Im sorry, the guy has been overpaid since. Rookie year he was mauling guys 20 yards downfield and I recall saying "ok, thats why" but money changed him. Now he is just our cheap shot artist who leads our line in penalties. I wish they would  let him walk esp. when Connolly played better. Im just saying. Its a risk, but BB goes after TOO many risks IMO to save a buck

     

     



    I do think the OL is not tough enough when having to run block, so I want some nastiness out there. I also believe you can be nasty without being a sheap shot.

     



    Yea I have been saying for years thats why I was excited about Cannon. He seemed to have some size, havent seen the nastiness yet. MY thoery with this is for years they had a prototype size u had to fit. It was 6'3 - 300 lbs. You couldnt be heavier because they liked their guards to pull alot and be on the move. Weve long needed a mauler at guard which Logan WAS until he started to get hurt and play like a shell of himself. He has looked better this year so far. They been trying to break that mold since 05' when they drafted 6'8" Ryan Callahan and got it right now with Solder and Vollmer, both 6'7 or whatever.

    I recall back in day BB had to have corners with good feet. He would avoid taller CBs at all costs because their hips were too tight. So, he drafted guys like E.Hobbs, T.Wheatley, J.Wilhite, picked up Terrel Buckley. We had a whole team of smurfs for years until BB realized you CAN get bigger CBs that can play if u SPEND! He had an epiphany and started bringing in Deltha O'Neals, Leigh Bodden, S.SPrings, C.Scott. All guys over 6 feet and they all BUMMED OUT cuz he was too cheap to draft a high CB. He tried to get bigger CBs who were washed up. He drafted the bigger Mike Richardson. He flamed out after one good preseason. Now we have a bigger guy(Talib) and a smaller guy(Dennard) that look good, but Yeeeesh! Stay on point BIlly. MY point with Carroll was back in 99 He had Tebucky Jones at Cb. Now he has Sherman. He is consistent. He knows what he wants and get it. If Asante was HIS guy, why not pay him? Well because Asante refused to play man/press. He knew he wasnt any good at it. They tried to force McCourty to do it and now he is a safety. Ijs, KNOw what u want and make sure its the right guy.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: The idea that NE will be ok once everyone is healthy

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:

    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

     

    The draft is a crapshoot, the worth of any player is relative to the GM or team making the pick. Kiper had Mankins rated as a third round pick and called him "a reach," he has been one of the best in the NFL at his given position since he was drafted.

    Great you told us Ras was a bad pick, did you tell us to go get Sherman?  Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

    If Amendola plays through injury or misses one or two games were you right about Amendola? You're very talented at assembling a team, we're all impressed.  Adrian Wilson got injured, what exactly were you right about, did you make such declarative statements about all our injured players, BTW he's still on the team.

    You can't argue with success, that isn't just a pretty slogan.

     



    Don't get me wrong here. I am totally behind satying the course with the rooks. However, I have to disagree with a few things you are saying here.

     

    1) Uncertainty is a reality drafting, but drafting is not a total crapshoot. If you truly believe that then the logical conclusion is for the Pats to abolish the scouting department and just pick BAT or BAT of need according to the "market's big board". In a total crapshoot, the results of either approach should be the same.

    2) Just because Mankins turned out to be much better than Kiper thought does not mean the pick was not a reach. As analogy, look at the prospects as goods. If the market is valuing the good at $40, why pay $80 just because you value it at $100. I believe the assessments of the Kipers of the world is probably closer to market valuation.

    The draft actually is almost like a sealed auction. There will be particpants who overbid and those that underbid. The difference is that during drafts, there is some information, albeit imperfect, where the market is valung the good. It worked out with Mankins. I think BB suffered what's referred to as winner's curse with T Wilson.

    3) Ras had an injury history that went all the way back to HS. There is a pretty long pattern. That's very different from Gronk having one issue in college. In a process with so much uncertainty, such as the draft, you are trying to manage risk. A long history of injury is probably a sound strategy for reducing risk of decisions.

     

     



    I have to disagree with you Seattle, the draft IS a crapshoot. Otherwise people selected in the first round would ALWAYS make it to the probowl and iirc first rounders make it about 50-60% of the time if that.

    Also Kiper is a hack, if he wasn't, he'd be working for an NFL team. He may set the market for talking heads but his talent evaluations are just as often wrong as they are right. Not only did he miss on Mankins, but he missed on Volmer too, as well as Matt Light, Tom Brady, Richard Seymore (I think), Devin McCourty and I'm sure I'm missing some.

    The draft is not  like a sealed auction at all. You have one turn to pick someone. If you want a particular player you have to pick them when it is your turn whether they are rated lower than your turn or not. Otherwise you  have to wait till your next turn and by then YOUR guy might be gone. The supplemental draft is like a sealed bid auction!

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: The idea that NE will be ok once everyone is healthy

    A Bill Belichick team starts out pretty mediocre in September and wins out in December.  Hopefully the winning streak carries over to January, and in fact BB has a relatively hot lifetime streak in January/February, considering the high quality of the opposition in Jan. 

    This year's edition is worse than normal in Sept.  Gronk is still out.  The four big rookie catchers all dived from really good in August to dum-dums in September. All of this may change.

    Amendola wasn't expected to be out this early but that can't be helped.  He stuck out one game and gave the Pats a victory. 

    The only real trouble spot is Tom Brady on long passes.  He's missing!  This happens to older quarterbacks.  For now, he'll learn to work with what skills he has. 

     

     

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: The idea that NE will be ok once everyone is healthy

    In response to Paul_K's comment:

    The only real trouble spot is Tom Brady on long passes.  He's missing!  This happens to older quarterbacks.  For now, he'll learn to work with what skills he has. 



    I'm not blaming Brady or the wideouts for this.  They have to get (TFB12's favorite band) in sync.

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: The idea that NE will be ok once everyone is healthy

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:

     


    I'm sick of whiny, ignorant fans.

    I was pretty happy with the Pats first 2 games...then I go and read a message board, I guess it's my own fault.

    Btch and moan, btch and moan.

    Obviously every good player should want to play for the Pats, and the league should probably remove salary cap and roster restrictions so the Pats, and Pats alone, can operate at a level that some of these fans EXPECT.

    Want better WRs? Tell me who goes? Spikes? Mayo? Hightower? Some OLineman? Wilfork? McCourty? Ridley? Vereen? Oh, no, right...Dobson should just magically be AJ Green or someone.

    At some point, the roster gets turned over and you go with YOUNG PLAYERS. Brady showed up with Brown and Glenn, got Branch and Givens, then a bad 06, then got Moss, Welker, Hernandez and Gronk. Seriously? And people are going to fking complain?

    It seriously sickens me. I never thought New England fans would turn into such a whiny, entitled, complaining bunch of ignorant clowns.

    Turn on your system of choice, modify the rosters as you see fit, and stop polluting the message boards.

     




    Where ya been?  Was looking for you to play fantasy football but you went missing.  Glad to see you back.

     

    I just need to know.. How much influence do you think Josh McD had on BB going with all the young receivers?  How much on letting Welker walk and bringing in Amendola?  We have had several Rams wr walk through the doors and last I checked the Rams were never any good with these players who came here.  Thoughts on that?



    I honestly don't think it was influence one way or the other...it was time, and worked out that way. Just like with the LBers, it's probably a few years overdue, but on a team as continually successful as the Pats...it's hard to turn over any position given your draft position.

    Also, everyone knows the Pats don't pay at the top of the scale, so FAs really need to WANT to be here, sometimes with no results (looking at YOU Ocho).

    Another also...veterans have had very mixed results in NE. Some have done well, most have not. Put someone like Stallworth on both sides of that list.

    As far as all the Rams...I Think it's the same as all the FL players. BB has people who's opinion he obviously trusts, and goes with. I think there was a familiarity that made some things seem like a good idea. But, the fact is not much money or resources was given up for any of them, so I don't see a real issue. Amendola is the one exception, but he's a unique case because his previous injuries looked flukey, but after a point it is what it is. And he's undeniably talented, as everyone saw week 1. In that same vein, maybe I should finally stop waiting for Hart Lee Dykes to get totally healthy.

    Thanks for thinking about me for football, I saw the thread and considered it, but I just don't have enough time to make it fun. My lack of time led to a collapse in my baseball money league that even the 2011 Sox would laugh at.

     
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