The Missing Ingredients?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from OnlyDaTruth. Show OnlyDaTruth's posts

    The Missing Ingredients?

    "


    As John Elway showed us all some years ago, it isn’t just about the quarterback.


    Elway goes down in history as one of the best quarterbacks in NFL history. But he didn’t win a Super Bowl until his last two seasons as quarterback of the Denver Broncos. Elway finished his career with back-to-back Super Bowl wins over Green Bay in XXXII and Atlanta in XXXIII before retiring. Elway has his place in history, but running back Terrell Davis, who was MVP in Super Bowl XXXII, is largely credited with being the key component in Elway finally finishing his climb up the NFL mountain after three previous failures.


    This should serve as a reminder to all who think the Patriots are all right as long as they simply have Tom Brady. Great as Brady is and has been, he cannot do it by himself. The sight of him screaming at his young receivers last fall was condemned by some, but praised and acknowledged by those who understand his place in team history.


    The Patriots are now going on ten years without having won a Super Bowl. Bill Belichick, with some help from Bill Parcells and Scott Pioli, put together a glittering array of talent which won three Super Bowls in four seasons. Teams turn over within just a few years, as most NFL careers are all too brief. Following these three Super Bowl wins, the Patriots went on to lose two Super Bowls in four seasons, both losses to the New York Giants. It sometimes baffles Patriot fans that the Patriots could lose two Super Bowls to an inferior Giants team on paper, especially the first of the two which scuttled what was almost the first 19-0 season in NFL history.


    That said, here is a list of key Patriot players and coaches who helped the Patriots win all three of their Super Bowl wins but were not there for any of the subsequent two losses to the Giants. You can look at the list and wonder if any of these players could have made the difference in overcoming Giant teams who peaked at just the right time and actually played with more passion and intensity in both Super Bowl wins over the Patriots.


    One more thing before reading on: For those of you looking for players like Tedy Bruschi, Richard Seymour and Mike Vrabel on this list, all three of these guys played in Super Bowl XLII for the Patriots. Matt Light and Kevin Faulk played in five Super Bowls for the Patriots, all three wins and both Giant losses, so they also don’t make this list. This list is only the men who were there for all three wins and none of the succeeding losses.


    Matt Chatham was a second string linebacker for several seasons for the Patriots. He could never break into the starting lineup but played steady if not spectacular football during his time in Foxborough. He was one of those players that had to “stay ready” if any starter got injured. Of course, someone like Chatham would have to make his mark on special teams to stick on the roster for as long as he did.


    Patrick Pass was a situational running back and special teams contributor. He would catch a pass here and there, but was used chiefly on special teams for several years. Like Chatham, this was why he lasted so long as a Patriot.


    Joe Andruzzi will always be associated with September 11th, as his three brothers narrowly escaped death at the World Trade Center as NYC firemen. On the field, Andruzzi was no slouch as a steady guard for the Patriots who departed amidst some ill will over contract negotiations. Given how much All-Pro guard Logan Mankins struggled in both his Super Bowls against the Giants defensive line, one has to wonder how Andruzzi would have handled Justin Tuck, Jason Pierre-Paul and Michael Strahan.


    Ted Johnson was one of the most underrated Patriots in recent history. His work at inside linebacker was stellar and very effective. He was also one of the few players on this list who also played in the Super Bowl XXXI loss to the Packers. His playing time and career was cut short because of numerous head injuries. He was also very unusual in that he had an unabashed love for romance novels.


    Roman Phifer was a starter at inside linebacker for his Patriot career. He was steady and effective though never being an All-Pro as a Patriot. He was one of the many players who fit Belichick’s system very well. Coincidentally, his Patriot career was 2001-04, the exact time frame for all three Super Bowl wins.


    Ty Law was injured for most of 2004 and did not play in Super Bowl XXXIX. He did play for the Patriots in three Super Bowls anyway, as he was part of the Super Bowl XXXI team. Law is tied with Raymond Clayborn for the most career interceptions as a Patriot. Law had a pick-six in Super Bowl XXXVI plus several picks of Peyton Manning in the AFC playoffs. He played his best seasons for the Patriots before leaving and eventually succumbing to old age, football style.


    Adam Vinatieri is still regarded as the best clutch kicker in NFL history. He kicked for the Patriots in XXXI, then went on to provide the margin of victory in all three Super Bowl wins. His game-winner in XXXVI remains perhaps the most iconic moment in team history. He did win a Super Bowl with Indianapolis after leaving the Patriots in 2005. To be fair, Stephen Gostkowski has never been in a position to win a playoff game like Vinatieri was time after time, and Gostkowski has had a decent NFL career as Vinatieri’s replacement. But Vinatieri leaving the Patriots was like Carlton Fisk leaving for the White Sox. It never should have been allowed to happen.


    Willie McGinest was one of the key Patriots who led the team to three Super Bowl wins, but was not there for the losses to the Giants later on.
    (USA TODAY Images)
    Willie McGinest got over the pain of leaving the Patriots for Cleveland and the final three seasons of his long NFL career, and now professes his ex-Patriot persona every time you see him on the NFL Network. His long Patriot career featured four Super Bowls and three wins. His holding penalty in XXXVI which negated a Tebucky Jones touchdown caused him to break down emotionally after the game, but Patriot fans remember Will Mac fondly for his great career and for helping establish the locker room and the Patriot Way.


    David Patten also might be lopped into the “underrated” category. Patten seemed to lose out on the props that went the way of Troy Brown and Deion Branch. But Patten had some clutch receptions for the Patriots in the postseason, most notably in Super Bowl XXXVI and the AFC Championship Game leading up to it. He was another go-to guy for Brady who simply never got the headlines for it, but most assuredly earned all three of his Super Bowl rings.


    Troy Brown turned out to be the Tim Wakefield of the Patriots. For many years he did whatever was asked of him, whether his coach was Bill Parcells, Pete Carroll or Bill Belichick. He did not play XXXI but did play in the three winners. He played one token game in 2007 but did not play in Super Bowl XLII. He retired that year as the leading receiver in Patriot history. He also has three career interceptions, all of them in 2004, and one of them off former teammate Drew Bledsoe. Brown personified the Patriot Way during his entire Patriot career, and remains one of the most popular local sports celebrities.


    Charlie Weis and Romeo Crennel coached their final Patriot games at Super Bowl XXXIX. The shot of Belichick, Weis and Crennel hugging at the end of that game had “end of an era” written all over it. For all those people who make a big deal out of “What did Parcells do without Belichick?”, let it be known that Belichick has not won a Super Bowl without Weis and Crennel. The Patriots, as Bruschi pointed out, had three head coaches on their staff during those three Super Bowl wins. Weis went on to be the head coach Notre Dame, his alma mater, then later coached one year at Kansas City as offensive coordinator. Crennel was head coach at Cleveland for four seasons, then came back to Kansas City, as Weis did, for two seasons as defensive coordinator and one season as head coach/DC. Pioli had moved on after 2008 to Kansas City and tried to bring Weis and Crennel together, but the experiment did not jell.


    - See more at: http://www.patsfans.com/bob/articles/2014/07/04/the-missing-patriot-super-ingredients/#sthash.wCq2w2Aw.dpuf" rel="nofollow">http://www.patsfans.com/bob/articles/2014/07/04/the-missing-patriot-super-ingredients/#sthash.wCq2w2Aw.dpuf


    ------------------


    Interesting article.


    "

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: The Missing Ingredients?

    So, is there a point to this article? Because if there is, it's not obvious. Just a trip down memory lane, perhaps? Fine, whatever.

    The Bart Starr Packers were awesome too. They're about as relevant to today's Packers as the '01 to '04 Pats are to the current version, which is to say not at all.  Ancient history.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from DougIrwin. Show DougIrwin's posts

    Re: The Missing Ingredients?

    In response to Muzwell's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    So, is there a point to this article? Because if there is, it's not obvious. Just a trip down memory lane, perhaps? Fine, whatever.

    The Bart Starr Packers were awesome too. They're about as relevant to today's Packers as the '01 to '04 Pats are to the current version, which is to say not at all.  Ancient history.

    [/QUOTE]

    Yeah, I didn't get that either. Just a random list of names and some summaries on what kind of a player each was.

    How strange  to think that is a good piece.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: The Missing Ingredients?

    I think the article sheds light on the reason why we haven't won a super bowl in ten years, it's because our teams over the last five years didn't have the talent of the one's that won those super bowls. Yet amazingly one guy on this forum blames one player on this team - and one player only - absolving every player that was ever brought in during that time frame and the person that brought them in. 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from DougIrwin. Show DougIrwin's posts

    Re: The Missing Ingredients?

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think the article sheds light on the reason why we haven't won a super bowl in ten years, it's because our teams over the last five years didn't have the talent of the one's that won those super bowls. Yet amazingly one guy on this forum blames one player on this team - and one player only - absolving every player that was ever brought in during that time frame and the person that brought them in. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Sorry, but that is absolutely false and one of the most moronic things ever uttered on planet earth. The 2007 team didn't have talent??

    My god. You've said some stupid things, but that might take the cake as you swing from Brady's scrotum here. that is beyond pathetic to swing from Brady's scrotum to that degree. The 2007 team was so loaded, it made diehard Pats fans blush every Sunday.

    The 2011 team was a team of destiny with Myra's passing, but Brady took a massive dump on that with his buddy Welkie, didn't they? They might have  lacked a depth of talent as a young, rebuilt D, but boy did they have guts and character.  They proved it in that postseason, only to be let down again by Brady with his head in the clouds and apparently only caring about where Giselle would be taking him after that SB. Giselle then deflected from her husband's poor play for big chunks of the game with her postgame antics.  Remember that? I do. I was mortified. He gazed into her eyes and was more focused on that than the first play from scrimmage.

    PATHETIC.

    WHat a coaching job by BB that year.  WOW.  The year before he led a very young team to a 14-2 season and Brady was asleep at the wheel in that postseason, too.

    Kinda funny how you still haven't put any accountability on Brady like the media hasn't and Brady still thinks he's above reproach now in this town, huh??  

    Not a coincidence.   You should be VERY concerned about a loaded D now being able to bail Brady out and the fear of Brady being so substandard when it counts, that it still may not matter.

    Sterling Moore had a better SB than Tom Brady.  Think about that. He had an INT that was called back and numerous key pass break ups.

    He also bailed Brady out in the title game. Is he even in the league anymore??

    I will NEVER, EVER forget the looks on the hardworking players faces on  D on the sidelines when Welker dropped that lazy, poor throw from Brady in Sb 46.  It screamed "you have got to be kidding me"?

    So, yeah, between the god awful Safety which was ALL on him and his stupid decision, the 1st down INT for no reason in the 4th, and the Welkie throw, YES, I do blame ONE guy, the guy who was all whiny not being paid more for his extension entering 2010 and who let the entire team and fanbase down.

    NO MORE EXCUSES. NO MORE for the Golden Boy. Some fans have absolutely had it it with him prancing off into the sunset while everyone else gets hammered when those who are being blamed actually were good or great.

    BB's coaching job so shorthanded on D with Carter down in that 2011 postseason was brilliant as was the gameplan in the SB knowing he didn't have the horses.  13 points allowed with that D would have been hailed as the stuff of legend, and rightly so.

    Case closed.

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: The Missing Ingredients?

    In response to DougIrwin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think the article sheds light on the reason why we haven't won a super bowl in ten years, it's because our teams over the last five years didn't have the talent of the one's that won those super bowls. Yet amazingly one guy on this forum blames one player on this team - and one player only - absolving every player that was ever brought in during that time frame and the person that brought them in. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Sorry, but that is absolutely false and one of the most moronic things ever uttered on planet earth. The 2007 team didn't have talent??

    My god. You've said some stupid things, but that might take the cake as you swing from Brady's scrotum here. that is beyond pathetic to swing from Brady's scrotum to that degree. The 2007 team was so loaded, it made diehard Pats fans blush every Sunday.

    The 2011 team was a team of destiny with Myra's passing, but Brady took a massive dump on that with his buddy Welkie, didn't they? They might have  lacked a depth of talent as a young, rebuilt D, but boy did they have guts and character.  They proved it in that postseason, only to be let down again by Brady with his head in the clouds and apparently only caring about where Giselle would be taking him after that SB. Giselle then deflected from her husband's poor play for big chunks of the game with her postgame antics.  Remember that? I do. I was mortified. He gazed into her eyes and was more focused on that than the first play from scrimmage.

    PATHETIC.

    WHat a coaching job by BB that year.  WOW.  The year before he led a very young team to a 14-2 season and Brady was asleep at the wheel in that postseason, too.

    Kinda funny how you still haven't put any accountability on Brady like the media hasn't and Brady still thinks he's above reproach now in this town, huh??  

    Not a coincidence.   You should be VERY concerned about a loaded D now being able to bail Brady out and the fear of Brady being so substandard when it counts, that it still may not matter.

    Sterling Moore had a better SB than Tom Brady.  Think about that. He had an INT that was called back and numerous key pass break ups.

    He also bailed Brady out in the title game. Is he even in the league anymore??

    I will NEVER, EVER forget the looks on the hardworking players faces on  D on the sidelines when Welker dropped that lazy, poor throw from Brady in Sb 46.  It screamed "you have got to be kidding me"?

    So, yeah, between the god awful Safety which was ALL on him and his stupid decision, the 1st down INT for no reason in the 4th, and the Welkie throw, YES, I do blame ONE guy, the guy who was all whiny not being paid more for his extension entering 2010 and who let the entire team and fanbase down.

    NO MORE EXCUSES. NO MORE for the Golden Boy. Some fans have absolutely had it it with him prancing off into the sunset while everyone else gets hammered when those who are being blamed actually were good or great.

    BB's coaching job so shorthanded on D with Carter down in that 2011 postseason was brilliant as was the gameplan in the SB knowing he didn't have the horses.  13 points allowed with that D would have been hailed as the stuff of legend, and rightly so.

    Case closed.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]

     

    Didn't read a word of this garbage but was wondering when you tell bb  all your expert analysis, does he tell you to shut up and not talk with your mouth full?

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: The Missing Ingredients?

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think the article sheds light on the reason why we haven't won a super bowl in ten years, it's because our teams over the last five years didn't have the talent of the one's that won those super bowls. Yet amazingly one guy on this forum blames one player on this team - and one player only - absolving every player that was ever brought in during that time frame and the person that brought them in. 

    [/QUOTE]

    My sense of this article is that it's chat room quality. Some pseudo journalist searching for some larger meaning and finding none, "but hey let's finish this thing because I already wrote like 1,200 words here."  TexasPat's writing is way better.

    The writer lists some great players like Willie Mac and Ty Law and Troy Brown, and also JAGs like Matt Chatham and Patrick Pass. (Patrick Pass, really? What did he EVER do? Someone help me out here.) Andruzzi is/was a better story than a football player, a JAG if there ever was one. Dan Connolly is better than he ever was and he's a JAG too. David Patten was OK, I liked Roman Phifer, but they're basically average NFL players, not any better than the guys they have now.

    It's a thesis about nothing.

    You want the real scoop? They won in the early BB years because they had heart, determination, relative health and luck, a lot of luck. It wasn't about better players than the guys they have now. The Giants got lucky twice. Otherwise, the Pats are the greatest team in NFL history.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from DougIrwin. Show DougIrwin's posts

    Re: The Missing Ingredients?

    In response to Muzwell's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think the article sheds light on the reason why we haven't won a super bowl in ten years, it's because our teams over the last five years didn't have the talent of the one's that won those super bowls. Yet amazingly one guy on this forum blames one player on this team - and one player only - absolving every player that was ever brought in during that time frame and the person that brought them in. 

    [/QUOTE]

    My sense of this article is that it's chat room quality. Some pseudo journalist searching for some larger meaning and finding none, "but hey let's finish this thing because I already wrote like 1,200 words here."  TexasPat's writing is way better.

    The writer lists some great players like Willie Mac and Ty Law and Troy Brown, and also JAGs like Matt Chatham and Patrick Pass. (Patrick Pass, really? What did he EVER do? Someone help me out here.) Andruzzi is/was a better story than a football player, a JAG if there ever was one. Dan Connolly is better than he ever was and he's a JAG too. David Patten was OK, I liked Roman Phifer, but they're basically average NFL players, not any better than the guys they have now.

    It's a thesis about nothing.

    You want the real scoop? They won in the early BB years because they had heart, determination, relative health and luck, a lot of luck. It wasn't about better players than the guys they have now. The Giants got lucky twice. Otherwise, the Pats are the greatest team in NFL history.

    [/QUOTE]

    Excellent post.  Every champion has luck, but one thing we didn't have in SB 42 and SB 46 was a good QB on those days.

    Brady threw a pick in SB 38 in the end zone, which meant they lost out on 3 points, but he came back and played well to help the team.

    When he made big mistakes in SB 42 or SB 46, he just didn't bounce back much.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: The Missing Ingredients?

    In response to DougIrwin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Muzwell's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think the article sheds light on the reason why we haven't won a super bowl in ten years, it's because our teams over the last five years didn't have the talent of the one's that won those super bowls. Yet amazingly one guy on this forum blames one player on this team - and one player only - absolving every player that was ever brought in during that time frame and the person that brought them in. 

    [/QUOTE]

    My sense of this article is that it's chat room quality. Some pseudo journalist searching for some larger meaning and finding none, "but hey let's finish this thing because I already wrote like 1,200 words here."  TexasPat's writing is way better.

    The writer lists some great players like Willie Mac and Ty Law and Troy Brown, and also JAGs like Matt Chatham and Patrick Pass. (Patrick Pass, really? What did he EVER do? Someone help me out here.) Andruzzi is/was a better story than a football player, a JAG if there ever was one. Dan Connolly is better than he ever was and he's a JAG too. David Patten was OK, I liked Roman Phifer, but they're basically average NFL players, not any better than the guys they have now.

    It's a thesis about nothing.

    You want the real scoop? They won in the early BB years because they had heart, determination, relative health and luck, a lot of luck. It wasn't about better players than the guys they have now. The Giants got lucky twice. Otherwise, the Pats are the greatest team in NFL history.

    [/QUOTE]

    Excellent post.  Every champion has luck, but one thing we didn't have in SB 42 and SB 46 was a good QB on those days.

    Brady threw a pick in SB 38 in the end zone, which meant they lost out on 3 points, but he came back and played well to help the team.

    When he made big mistakes in SB 42 or SB 46, he just didn't bounce back much.

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]

    ummm he did enough to have the lead until the final 57 and 35 seconds of the game until the D shat their pants for the final time in the games..

    SB record for longest TD.  98 yards. 

    SB record for most consecutive completed passes. 16

    Defense, SB record for sucking.

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: The Missing Ingredients?

    Pass has more rings than Walter Payton and Barry Sanders combined.  Gee that makes the whole Rusty act of trying to Blame Brady for everything negative the past 10 years even funnier to me now.  

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from DougIrwin. Show DougIrwin's posts

    Re: The Missing Ingredients?

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to DougIrwin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Muzwell's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think the article sheds light on the reason why we haven't won a super bowl in ten years, it's because our teams over the last five years didn't have the talent of the one's that won those super bowls. Yet amazingly one guy on this forum blames one player on this team - and one player only - absolving every player that was ever brought in during that time frame and the person that brought them in. 

    [/QUOTE]

    My sense of this article is that it's chat room quality. Some pseudo journalist searching for some larger meaning and finding none, "but hey let's finish this thing because I already wrote like 1,200 words here."  TexasPat's writing is way better.

    The writer lists some great players like Willie Mac and Ty Law and Troy Brown, and also JAGs like Matt Chatham and Patrick Pass. (Patrick Pass, really? What did he EVER do? Someone help me out here.) Andruzzi is/was a better story than a football player, a JAG if there ever was one. Dan Connolly is better than he ever was and he's a JAG too. David Patten was OK, I liked Roman Phifer, but they're basically average NFL players, not any better than the guys they have now.

    It's a thesis about nothing.

    You want the real scoop? They won in the early BB years because they had heart, determination, relative health and luck, a lot of luck. It wasn't about better players than the guys they have now. The Giants got lucky twice. Otherwise, the Pats are the greatest team in NFL history.

    [/QUOTE]

    Excellent post.  Every champion has luck, but one thing we didn't have in SB 42 and SB 46 was a good QB on those days.

    Brady threw a pick in SB 38 in the end zone, which meant they lost out on 3 points, but he came back and played well to help the team.

    When he made big mistakes in SB 42 or SB 46, he just didn't bounce back much.

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]

    ummm he did enough to have the lead until the final 57 and 35 seconds of the game until the D shat their pants for the final time in the games..

    SB record for longest TD.  98 yards. 

    SB record for most consecutive completed passes. 16

    Defense, SB record for sucking.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Which QB allowed points off the first play in SB history? 

    Answer: Tom Brady

    Tom Brady has SUCKED beyond belief in the AFC title game or SB every time he got there in the last decade. It's a miracle this team even got to SB 42 and SB 46, that is how awful Brady was.

    LOL

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from cousteau. Show cousteau's posts

    Re: The Missing Ingredients?

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to DougIrwin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Muzwell's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think the article sheds light on the reason why we haven't won a super bowl in ten years, it's because our teams over the last five years didn't have the talent of the one's that won those super bowls. Yet amazingly one guy on this forum blames one player on this team - and one player only - absolving every player that was ever brought in during that time frame and the person that brought them in. 

    [/QUOTE]

    My sense of this article is that it's chat room quality. Some pseudo journalist searching for some larger meaning and finding none, "but hey let's finish this thing because I already wrote like 1,200 words here."  TexasPat's writing is way better.

    The writer lists some great players like Willie Mac and Ty Law and Troy Brown, and also JAGs like Matt Chatham and Patrick Pass. (Patrick Pass, really? What did he EVER do? Someone help me out here.) Andruzzi is/was a better story than a football player, a JAG if there ever was one. Dan Connolly is better than he ever was and he's a JAG too. David Patten was OK, I liked Roman Phifer, but they're basically average NFL players, not any better than the guys they have now.

    It's a thesis about nothing.

    You want the real scoop? They won in the early BB years because they had heart, determination, relative health and luck, a lot of luck. It wasn't about better players than the guys they have now. The Giants got lucky twice. Otherwise, the Pats are the greatest team in NFL history.

    [/QUOTE]

    Excellent post.  Every champion has luck, but one thing we didn't have in SB 42 and SB 46 was a good QB on those days.

    Brady threw a pick in SB 38 in the end zone, which meant they lost out on 3 points, but he came back and played well to help the team.

    When he made big mistakes in SB 42 or SB 46, he just didn't bounce back much.

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]

    ummm he did enough to have the lead until the final 57 and 35 seconds of the game until the D shat their pants for the final time in the games..

    SB record for longest TD.  98 yards. 

    SB record for most consecutive completed passes. 16

    Defense, SB record for sucking.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    but but but, BB is a genius and will NEVER EVER be outdone ever! nothing is his fault. he is brilliant and can never be faulted for anything. it's always TB and his failures that's to blame

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: The Missing Ingredients?

    In response to DougIrwin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to DougIrwin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Muzwell's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think the article sheds light on the reason why we haven't won a super bowl in ten years, it's because our teams over the last five years didn't have the talent of the one's that won those super bowls. Yet amazingly one guy on this forum blames one player on this team - and one player only - absolving every player that was ever brought in during that time frame and the person that brought them in. 

    [/QUOTE]

    My sense of this article is that it's chat room quality. Some pseudo journalist searching for some larger meaning and finding none, "but hey let's finish this thing because I already wrote like 1,200 words here."  TexasPat's writing is way better.

    The writer lists some great players like Willie Mac and Ty Law and Troy Brown, and also JAGs like Matt Chatham and Patrick Pass. (Patrick Pass, really? What did he EVER do? Someone help me out here.) Andruzzi is/was a better story than a football player, a JAG if there ever was one. Dan Connolly is better than he ever was and he's a JAG too. David Patten was OK, I liked Roman Phifer, but they're basically average NFL players, not any better than the guys they have now.

    It's a thesis about nothing.

    You want the real scoop? They won in the early BB years because they had heart, determination, relative health and luck, a lot of luck. It wasn't about better players than the guys they have now. The Giants got lucky twice. Otherwise, the Pats are the greatest team in NFL history.

    [/QUOTE]

    Excellent post.  Every champion has luck, but one thing we didn't have in SB 42 and SB 46 was a good QB on those days.

    Brady threw a pick in SB 38 in the end zone, which meant they lost out on 3 points, but he came back and played well to help the team.

    When he made big mistakes in SB 42 or SB 46, he just didn't bounce back much.

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]

    ummm he did enough to have the lead until the final 57 and 35 seconds of the game until the D shat their pants for the final time in the games..

    SB record for longest TD.  98 yards. 

    SB record for most consecutive completed passes. 16

    Defense, SB record for sucking.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Which QB allowed points off the first play in SB history? 

    Answer: Tom Brady

    Tom Brady has SUCKED beyond belief in the AFC title game or SB every time he got there in the last decade. It's a miracle this team even got to SB 42 and SB 46, that is how awful Brady was.

    LOL

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]

    He was not the first and a 16 second safety happened this year which was the quickest in history.

    Shame bbs o-line couldn't protect him from 3 rushers, though.  In fact they let Tuck kill him all day.

    We got there because TB got them the lead by diving into the end zone and nearly getting decapitated and the defense once again let them march down the field in the final seconds.

      Thank you Billy Cundiff for saving the game for us.  Something the frigin D could never do.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from OnlyDaTruth. Show OnlyDaTruth's posts

    Re: The Missing Ingredients?

    "This should serve as a reminder to all who think the Patriots are all right as long as they simply have Tom Brady. Great as Brady is and has been, he cannot do it by himself. The sight of him screaming at his young receivers last fall was condemned by some, but praised and acknowledged by those who understand his place in team history."

    ----------------

    It's not only Brady's fault.....

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: The Missing Ingredients?

    I think Muz pretty much summed it up.  The piece is essentially a narrative of prior glory not a prescription for success - huge difference between the two.  Last two SB appearances boiled down to 1 or 2 plays in each game.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from DougIrwin. Show DougIrwin's posts

    Re: The Missing Ingredients?

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to DougIrwin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to DougIrwin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Muzwell's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think the article sheds light on the reason why we haven't won a super bowl in ten years, it's because our teams over the last five years didn't have the talent of the one's that won those super bowls. Yet amazingly one guy on this forum blames one player on this team - and one player only - absolving every player that was ever brought in during that time frame and the person that brought them in. 

    [/QUOTE]

    My sense of this article is that it's chat room quality. Some pseudo journalist searching for some larger meaning and finding none, "but hey let's finish this thing because I already wrote like 1,200 words here."  TexasPat's writing is way better.

    The writer lists some great players like Willie Mac and Ty Law and Troy Brown, and also JAGs like Matt Chatham and Patrick Pass. (Patrick Pass, really? What did he EVER do? Someone help me out here.) Andruzzi is/was a better story than a football player, a JAG if there ever was one. Dan Connolly is better than he ever was and he's a JAG too. David Patten was OK, I liked Roman Phifer, but they're basically average NFL players, not any better than the guys they have now.

    It's a thesis about nothing.

    You want the real scoop? They won in the early BB years because they had heart, determination, relative health and luck, a lot of luck. It wasn't about better players than the guys they have now. The Giants got lucky twice. Otherwise, the Pats are the greatest team in NFL history.

    [/QUOTE]

    Excellent post.  Every champion has luck, but one thing we didn't have in SB 42 and SB 46 was a good QB on those days.

    Brady threw a pick in SB 38 in the end zone, which meant they lost out on 3 points, but he came back and played well to help the team.

    When he made big mistakes in SB 42 or SB 46, he just didn't bounce back much.

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]

    ummm he did enough to have the lead until the final 57 and 35 seconds of the game until the D shat their pants for the final time in the games..

    SB record for longest TD.  98 yards. 

    SB record for most consecutive completed passes. 16

    Defense, SB record for sucking.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Which QB allowed points off the first play in SB history? 

    Answer: Tom Brady

    Tom Brady has SUCKED beyond belief in the AFC title game or SB every time he got there in the last decade. It's a miracle this team even got to SB 42 and SB 46, that is how awful Brady was.

    LOL

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]

    He was not the first and a 16 second safety happened this year which was the quickest in history.

    Shame bbs o-line couldn't protect him from 3 rushers, though.  In fact they let Tuck kill him all day.

    We got there because TB got them the lead by diving into the end zone and nearly getting decapitated and the defense once again let them march down the field in the final seconds.

      Thank you Billy Cundiff for saving the game for us.  Something the frigin D could never do.

    [/QUOTE]

    Who was the first qb to take a snap and it be a safety in the sb?

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from cyncalpatfan. Show cyncalpatfan's posts

    Re: The Missing Ingredients?

    In response to Muzwell's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think the article sheds light on the reason why we haven't won a super bowl in ten years, it's because our teams over the last five years didn't have the talent of the one's that won those super bowls. Yet amazingly one guy on this forum blames one player on this team - and one player only - absolving every player that was ever brought in during that time frame and the person that brought them in. 

    [/QUOTE]

    My sense of this article is that it's chat room quality. Some pseudo journalist searching for some larger meaning and finding none, "but hey let's finish this thing because I already wrote like 1,200 words here."  TexasPat's writing is way better.

    The writer lists some great players like Willie Mac and Ty Law and Troy Brown, and also JAGs like Matt Chatham and Patrick Pass. (Patrick Pass, really? What did he EVER do? Someone help me out here.) Andruzzi is/was a better story than a football player, a JAG if there ever was one. Dan Connolly is better than he ever was and he's a JAG too. David Patten was OK, I liked Roman Phifer, but they're basically average NFL players, not any better than the guys they have now.

    It's a thesis about nothing.

    You want the real scoop? They won in the early BB years because they had heart, determination, relative health and luck, a lot of luck. It wasn't about better players than the guys they have now. The Giants got lucky twice. Otherwise, the Pats are the greatest team in NFL history.

    [/QUOTE]

    You are on the money.  All five Super Bowls could have just as easily gone the other way if not for just a couple of clutch, or not-so-clutch plays.  They all came down to execution and that luck that you mentioned.  Part of that luck involves injuries.  Hopefully, we see a little more good fortune this year.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: The Missing Ingredients?

    In response to DougIrwin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Muzwell's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    So, is there a point to this article? Because if there is, it's not obvious. Just a trip down memory lane, perhaps? Fine, whatever.

    The Bart Starr Packers were awesome too. They're about as relevant to today's Packers as the '01 to '04 Pats are to the current version, which is to say not at all.  Ancient history.

    [/QUOTE]

    Yeah, I didn't get that either. Just a random list of names and some summaries on what kind of a player each was.

    How strange  to think that is a good piece.

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]

     

    Od course you didn't get it. You're an imbecile.

     

    The championships were a perfect storm of great coaching, great inherited players, some good moves by Pioli/BB and a lot of luck getting Brady. That is obvious, if you know, you can read.

    And it goes on to point out that Brady can't do it alone, and that implies the teams around him are mediocre compared to the glory days.

    All just like I've been saying for years and years.

     

    You are hopelessly stupid in your lust for BB.

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: The Missing Ingredients?

    In response to ATJ's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think Muz pretty much summed it up.  The piece is essentially a narrative of prior glory not a prescription for success - huge difference between the two.  Last two SB appearances boiled down to 1 or 2 plays in each game.

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]

     

    The piece actually states exactly what I have said all along. Sure, he beats around the bush so as to not send the homers into a foaming at the mouth tizzy, but his implications are loud and clear; the dynasty teams were not nearly all created by BB, and the teams completely created by him have been inadequate. And whether he wants to come right out and say it or not; that buck on all that stops with BB the GM.

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: The Missing Ingredients?

    In response to DougIrwin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to DougIrwin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Muzwell's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think the article sheds light on the reason why we haven't won a super bowl in ten years, it's because our teams over the last five years didn't have the talent of the one's that won those super bowls. Yet amazingly one guy on this forum blames one player on this team - and one player only - absolving every player that was ever brought in during that time frame and the person that brought them in. 

    [/QUOTE]

    My sense of this article is that it's chat room quality. Some pseudo journalist searching for some larger meaning and finding none, "but hey let's finish this thing because I already wrote like 1,200 words here."  TexasPat's writing is way better.

    The writer lists some great players like Willie Mac and Ty Law and Troy Brown, and also JAGs like Matt Chatham and Patrick Pass. (Patrick Pass, really? What did he EVER do? Someone help me out here.) Andruzzi is/was a better story than a football player, a JAG if there ever was one. Dan Connolly is better than he ever was and he's a JAG too. David Patten was OK, I liked Roman Phifer, but they're basically average NFL players, not any better than the guys they have now.

    It's a thesis about nothing.

    You want the real scoop? They won in the early BB years because they had heart, determination, relative health and luck, a lot of luck. It wasn't about better players than the guys they have now. The Giants got lucky twice. Otherwise, the Pats are the greatest team in NFL history.

    [/QUOTE]

    Excellent post.  Every champion has luck, but one thing we didn't have in SB 42 and SB 46 was a good QB on those days.

    Brady threw a pick in SB 38 in the end zone, which meant they lost out on 3 points, but he came back and played well to help the team.

    When he made big mistakes in SB 42 or SB 46, he just didn't bounce back much.

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]

    ummm he did enough to have the lead until the final 57 and 35 seconds of the game until the D shat their pants for the final time in the games..

    SB record for longest TD.  98 yards. 

    SB record for most consecutive completed passes. 16

    Defense, SB record for sucking.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Which QB allowed points off the first play in SB history? 

    Answer: Tom Brady

    Tom Brady has SUCKED beyond belief in the AFC title game or SB every time he got there in the last decade. It's a miracle this team even got to SB 42 and SB 46, that is how awful Brady was.

    LOL

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]

     

    Which O-line allowed points off the first play in SB history? 

     

    Answer: BB's!

     

    Thanks BB for giving us an O-line that chokes in SBs!

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: The Missing Ingredients?

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think the article sheds light on the reason why we haven't won a super bowl in ten years, it's because our teams over the last five years didn't have the talent of the one's that won those super bowls. Yet amazingly one guy on this forum blames one player on this team - and one player only - absolving every player that was ever brought in during that time frame and the person that brought them in. 

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]

     

    Yeah, the point is clear. The homers just don't like to hear the truth.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: The Missing Ingredients?

    In response to DougIrwin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think the article sheds light on the reason why we haven't won a super bowl in ten years, it's because our teams over the last five years didn't have the talent of the one's that won those super bowls. Yet amazingly one guy on this forum blames one player on this team - and one player only - absolving every player that was ever brought in during that time frame and the person that brought them in. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Sorry, but that is absolutely false and one of the most moronic things ever uttered on planet earth. The 2007 team didn't have talent??

     

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]

     

    Let me ask you Einstein.... mthurl said 5 years. How long ago was 2007?

     

    You're an imbecile.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: The Missing Ingredients?

    In response to ATJ's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think Muz pretty much summed it up.  The piece is essentially a narrative of prior glory not a prescription for success - huge difference between the two.  Last two SB appearances boiled down to 1 or 2 plays in each game.

    [/QUOTE]

    your first three SB appearances boiled down to 1 or 2 plays in each game.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from cyncalpatfan. Show cyncalpatfan's posts

    Re: The Missing Ingredients?

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think the article sheds light on the reason why we haven't won a super bowl in ten years, it's because our teams over the last five years didn't have the talent of the one's that won those super bowls. Yet amazingly one guy on this forum blames one player on this team - and one player only - absolving every player that was ever brought in during that time frame and the person that brought them in. 

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't think it's about the old teams having more talent.  To me, it's all about execution.  The fact is, a few critical plays did not work out.  For instance, WW not making that catch.  Sure, the throw was not on the money, but the fact is, that was the kind of catch he had made in his career.  You can't say he didn't have the talent.  He did.  He just failed to get it done, when it mattered most.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: The Missing Ingredients?

    In response to cyncalpatfan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think the article sheds light on the reason why we haven't won a super bowl in ten years, it's because our teams over the last five years didn't have the talent of the one's that won those super bowls. Yet amazingly one guy on this forum blames one player on this team - and one player only - absolving every player that was ever brought in during that time frame and the person that brought them in. 

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't think it's about the old teams having more talent.  To me, it's all about execution.  The fact is, a few critical plays did not work out.  For instance, WW not making that catch.  Sure, the throw was not on the money, but the fact is, that was the kind of catch he had made in his career.  You can't say he didn't have the talent.  He did.  He just failed to get it done, when it mattered most.

    [/QUOTE]


    Welker has talent, he's just not the kind of player you want having to make a difficult downfield catch like that.  Ideally, you'd have a bigger target for that play.  Still, I'm not of this "one play is the whole difference" mentality. There were lots of other things that went wrong in that game and contributed to the loss.  Execution is always the major issue, but execution failures often are the result of talent deficiencies or poor match ups.  In 42, the O line (execution, bad match ups, talent) was the primary problem.  In 46 and recent championships the issue has been poor pass defense (talent) and lack of offensive weapons with Gronk hurt. 

    A healthy Gronk would have been a better seam route target on that Welker play for instance.  

     

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