The NFL will suffer greatly...and, for what?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    The NFL will suffer greatly...and, for what?

    The NHL needed a strong olympics to start to come back to where they WERE before their stoppage.

    MLB allowed 'roids to bring interest back, and it worked, but at what cost?

    The NBA is headed in the same direction as the NFL!

    These greedy owners and mental-midget unions are going to kill their golden goose if they don't figure something out.

    Owners crying about money? Oh boo-fre akin-hoo. It's so hard to have corrupt pols lining up to hand you half-billion dollar stadiums. So unfair to force people into paying full price for 2 PRESEASON GAMES! Completely unjust to make billions on the TV contract alone, nevermind gates, merchandise, concessions....waaaahhhh. I need to make 150 mil per year, not 125! Sickening.

    And the players? They make a truckload too. Oh, wah, 18 game seasons will be too hard. We only get 50-whatever percent. Poor us, contracts aren't guaranteed. Average careers are only 3 years. Just curious, how many people out there in the posting world have guaranteed ANYTHING besides death and taxes? Dispicable.

    Furthermore, the league has been hurting the game for the good of the bottom line. Didn't like 1:00 games bleeding into 4? Don't cut commercials, no way, they make us money! I know, don't stop the clock when the players goes out of bounds! Brilliant! Remove about 10% of the GAME rather than disturb the bottom line! Nauseating.

    I find myself amost hoping for a work stoppage so maybe, just maybe, a little reality will be slapped into the heads of ALL these idiots. I do a good job of not usually thinking about it because when I do, I see the absurdity of it all. Millionaires arguing over who gets the extra bentley. Pathetic.

    The ONLY thing they need to fix is the rookie contracts. I'm sick of the #1 guy ALWAYS suddenly being "the highest paid player at his position in the history of the NFL!" Agents can burn in h-e-double hockey sticks as well, they do NOTHING but damage the game, driving players from city to city for a few extra $5 footlongs, and shame on the players for letting themselves get pimped around by some pencil-neck geek trying to make money off of them. Losers.

    Thanks for reading, I'm done. And I STILL don't feel any better.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from chrisakawoody. Show chrisakawoody's posts

    Re: The NFL will suffer greatly...and, for what?

    In Response to The NFL will suffer greatly...and, for what?:
    The NHL needed a strong olympics to start to come back to where they WERE before their stoppage. MLB allowed 'roids to bring interest back, and it worked, but at what cost? The NBA is headed in the same direction as the NFL! These greedy owners and mental-midget unions are going to kill their golden goose if they don't figure something out. Owners crying about money? Oh boo-fre akin-hoo. It's so hard to have corrupt pols lining up to hand you half-billion dollar stadiums. So unfair to force people into paying full price for 2 PRESEASON GAMES! Completely unjust to make billions on the TV contract alone, nevermind gates, merchandise, concessions....waaaahhhh. I need to make 150 mil per year, not 125! Sickening. And the players? They make a truckload too. Oh, wah, 18 game seasons will be too hard. We only get 50-whatever percent. Poor us, contracts aren't guaranteed. Average careers are only 3 years. Just curious, how many people out there in the posting world have guaranteed ANYTHING besides death and taxes? Dispicable. Furthermore, the league has been hurting the game for the good of the bottom line. Didn't like 1:00 games bleeding into 4? Don't cut commercials, no way, they make us money! I know, don't stop the clock when the players goes out of bounds! Brilliant! Remove about 10% of the GAME rather than disturb the bottom line! Nauseating. I find myself amost hoping for a work stoppage so maybe, just maybe, a little reality will be slapped into the heads of ALL these idiots. I do a good job of not usually thinking about it because when I do, I see the absurdity of it all. Millionaires arguing over who gets the extra bentley. Pathetic. The ONLY thing they need to fix is the rookie contracts. I'm sick of the #1 guy ALWAYS suddenly being "the highest paid player at his position in the history of the NFL!" Agents can burn in h-e-double hockey sticks as well, they do NOTHING but damage the game, driving players from city to city for a few extra $5 footlongs, and shame on the players for letting themselves get pimped around by some pencil-neck geek trying to make money off of them. Losers. Thanks for reading, I'm done. And I STILL don't feel any better.
    Posted by ma6dragon9


    Considering that the vast majority of NFL players don't make that much for a career that most launched when they were peewees (with the very  slightest chance of making the NFL), that most will carry disabling injuries for the remainder of their lives, that they all have short careers, that they provide the majority of the talent in the operations, that their career choice requires them to donate a considerable portion of their income to charity (even after their careers have ended), that the bottom 70% don't really make all that much when you average their earnings based on ALL the number of years that they have played football to earn that money, then subtract their payments to their agents, publicists, personal trainers, etc., and I think it is unfair to say they or their unions are greedy.

    But as for rookie pay, yeah, I think that the NFL needs to have a reasonable cap so not to cripple rebuilding teams like the Pats, Chiefs, Bucs, Raiders, etc.  Not in the hundreds of thousands, because - again - it took them years of risk, hard work and pain to reach the NFL.   But not in the tens of guaranteed millions, either.

    I do not want to see a lock-out, nor do I want an 18-game schedule.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from RajonRondowski. Show RajonRondowski's posts

    Re: The NFL will suffer greatly...and, for what?

    In Response to www.boston.com/community/forums.html?plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3aSportsForum%3a9690Discussion%3ac6fb1c9f-79b6-408b-8c37-c11c5640174f&plckFindPostKey=Cat:SportsForum:9690Discussion:c6fb1c9f-79b6-408b-8c37-c11c5640174fPost:d15b8911-f00a-4360-99d9-e52361a9449a">The NFL will suffer greatly...and, for what?:
    The NHL needed a strong olympics to start to come back to where they WERE before their stoppage. MLB allowed 'roids to bring interest back, and it worked, but at what cost?

    The NBA is headed in the same direction as the NFL! These greedy owners and mental-midget unions are going to kill their golden goose if they don't figure something out.

    Owners crying about money? Oh boo-fre akin-hoo. It's so hard to have corrupt pols lining up to hand you half-billion dollar stadiums. So unfair to force people into paying full price for 2 PRESEASON GAMES! Completely unjust to make billions on the TV contract alone, nevermind gates, merchandise, concessions....waaaahhhh. I need to make 150 mil per year, not 125! Sickening.

    And the players? They make a truckload too. Oh, wah, 18 game seasons will be too hard. We only get 50-whatever percent. Poor us, contracts aren't guaranteed. Average careers are only 3 years. Just curious, how many people out there in the posting world have guaranteed ANYTHING besides death and taxes? Dispicable.

    Furthermore, the league has been hurting the game for the good of the bottom line. Didn't like 1:00 games bleeding into 4? Don't cut commercials, no way, they make us money! I know, don't stop the clock when the players goes out of bounds! Brilliant! Remove about 10% of the GAME rather than disturb the bottom line! Nauseating.
    I find myself amost hoping for a work stoppage so maybe, just maybe, a little reality will be slapped into the heads of ALL these idiots. I do a good job of not usually thinking about it because when I do, I see the absurdity of it all. Millionaires arguing over who gets the extra bentley. Pathetic.

    The ONLY thing they need to fix is the rookie contracts. I'm sick of the #1 guy ALWAYS suddenly being "the highest paid player at his position in the history of the NFL!" Agents can burn in h-e-double hockey sticks as well, they do NOTHING but damage the game, driving players from city to city for a few extra $5 footlongs, and shame on the players for letting themselves get pimped around by some pencil-neck geek trying to make money off of them. Losers.

    Thanks for reading, I'm done. And I STILL don't feel any better.
    Posted by ma6dragon9


    Considering that the vast majority of NFL players don't make that much for a career that most launched when they were peewees (with the very  slightest chance of making the NFL), that most will carry disabling injuries for the remainder of their lives, that they all have short careers, that they provide the majority of the talent in the operations, that their career choice requires them to donate a considerable portion of their income to charity (even after their careers have ended), that the bottom 70% don't really make all that much when you average their earnings based on ALL the number of years that they have played football to earn that money, then subtract their payments to their agents, publicists, personal trainers, etc., and I think it is unfair to say they or their unions are greedy.

    But as for rookie pay, yeah, I think that the NFL needs to have a reasonable cap so not to cripple rebuilding teams like the Pats, Chiefs, Bucs, Raiders, etc.  Not in the hundreds of thousands, because - again - it took them years of risk, hard work and pain to reach the NFL.   But not in the tens of guaranteed millions, either.

    I do not want to see a lock-out, nor do I want an 18-game schedule.


    chrisakawoody

    -

    Thanks for the great read, both of you guys.  Lot's of good content there and a lot of passion.

    This is a topic that will concern us more and more as time goes by so the better informed we are, well, the better.

    The new 18 game regular season schedule will likely be part of a 20 game package, the same as now, but with 2 fewer pre-season games and high-compensation to the players from the increased NFL revenues for the additional regular season games. 

    Is it my understanding, from what I've heard and read, that the players don't have much leverage to fight this?

    If greed is good this is outlandish. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from JulesWinfield. Show JulesWinfield's posts

    Re: The NFL will suffer greatly...and, for what?

    I tend to think that the owners don't have as good of a deal as many suspect.  If more franchises opened their books, we'd know for sure.  Sounds kind of socialist to side with the players because the owners have billions.  The way I look at it: most of the players' best alternate job is a top flight position in the food service or housekeeping industries.  If they're complaining about short careers, head injuries, etc., they should by all means move on to one of these careers.  If they decide that the risk is not worth the league minimum salary, I sure hope they got college degrees and made themselves in some way employable...
     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from chrisakawoody. Show chrisakawoody's posts

    Re: The NFL will suffer greatly...and, for what?

    In Response to Re: The NFL will suffer greatly...and, for what?:
    Chris, I'm sorry it had to be you bro and that wasn't an attack on you personally. It was just a place for me to get it out. I understand your point, I just don't agree with it.
    Posted by Sam-Adams


    No problem.

    Here's where I am coming from and I have told this story here before:

    I have two brothers who played college ball, one baseball, one football.

    They started playing at around seven years of age and they played several sports. It didn't take long before they were aware that they needed to succeed in at least one sport so they could go to college, and then hopefully, play pro sports.

    Starting out, they loved playing, but as the years dragged, it became like a job.  But they continued, because - again - they needed it to go to college.

    James became the Southern CA little league MVP in the CA All Star game one year, out of 38,000 kids.

    Mike set all kinds of football records along the way.  he joined one prominent school football program after a move, on a Friday, then played Saturday, scoring four TDs.

    Both became stand-out atheletes at Matre Dei (sp) in California.   

    Mike tore his shoulder socket to shreds tackling a guy on an interception return.  He continued to play the game on all squads. His doctor said that his shoulder was so bad from the years of pounding it took as a DB, RB and special teamer, that he had, "the shoulder of a 50-y.o. man."  He was surgically repaired and with the help of my dad, who placed kids in colleges based on their sports skills, got into Princeton for $3K a year in the mid-'90s, as a CB. He was courted by multiple coaches in the Ivy.  The Brown coach told him he could pick any position to play except QB, he wanted Mike that much (they won the Ivy Championship with that coach). Mike ran a sub-4.3, the fastest guy in the Ivy League when he played.  As a JV player, he got hurt in the 3rd game, tackled on his ankle while returning an INT.  He re-habbed and was even faster, but got hurt the following season with another severe sprain, tackled the same way, on another INT return. The next year, the Ivy dropped JV squads. He was going to be one starting CB, paired with a senior on the other side.  But a rich donor came along and bought a building for Princeton on the caveat that his freshman son got to play starting CB for Princeton.  That kid was bad.  Rather than sit behind a lame CB, Mike quit the team.  His body was a wreck, anyway.  Yeah, he got the education, but it has not payed off career-wise in this economy and he will be suffering those injuries within a few years, and for the rest of his life. Not a great pay-off. 

    James got his baseball scholarship to Santa Clara and was so good that the coach benched him routinely for playing too well, such as when he hit back-to-back HRs to start a game, the coach sat him for the rest of the game, lest James get noticed by scouts.  The coach wanted to build a championship team around James and didn't want James drafted before that happened.  He kept him well hid.

    So James transferred to UF, where that coach summarily benched him, too.  This is not a kid with an attitude.  He was very popular and attended all of his practices. He finally had a pow-wow with his coach, begging for game time and was rewarded.  By the end of that week, he had set a UF batting record, hitting 2 HRs, a triple, a double and a walk in one game.  He also set the records for longest HRs at The U's field - 570 feet. He his another HR at UF, across Stadium Ave,  over Tobert Hall and into a quad, as pictured here -

    http://maps.google.com/maps?f=s&utm_campaign=en&utm_source=en-ha-na-us-bk-gm&utm_medium=ha&utm_term=google%20maps.

    The announcers claimed to never have seen a HR hit as far by anybody, at any level. He led the SEC in HRs and is one of UF's all-time slugging leaders.  When he was playing with his friend Dave Eckstein, he was slugging 50 points higher. 
    See stats for Eidam, J., at this link.  You can see that in just two seasons he became one of UF's all-time batting leaders in slugging and HRs: http://www.gatorzone.com/baseball/history.php#14

    But a new coach arrived.  That coach was a holy roller and resented any player who did not convert. When the team finished a mere 3rd in the college world series, that coach eight-balled all of the seniors to the pro scouts. Not one senior was drafted from a team that finished third in the NCAA!!!! To make it worse, after all those games my brother was benched, punished for being too good, in that, his senior year he was hit in the hand by fastballs twice in the first week of the season.  That temporaryinjury of nerve damage skewed his batting stats for the first half of the season.  With a maniacal coach that was embittered against him and the other seniors, my bother didn't have a voice on his behalf to explain to the scouts why his batting stats were down for the year.  On top of that, UF lied to him about accepting him for  their business school  They stuck him with a useless degree in theology, so he didn't even get the benefit of a useful, marketable education.  In addition, James was a star pitcher in the CA little league and high school levels, but was over-pitched and his throwing arm damaged.  He was made a one-trick pony because of several exploitive coaches. He was too nice and accommodating to say "no" to his teams and coaches. 

    For every pro player that makes big bucks, there are literally thousands of players that got used and abused like my two brothers. For any pro to survive the gauntlet, they deserve every penny. Hey, we've got CEOs, CFOs, CCOs that ruin companies and are paid many more times what the average pro athlete is paid.  Some of them become pro team owners.


     
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tcal2. Show Tcal2's posts

    Re: The NFL will suffer greatly...and, for what?

    S-A let's not forget the personal appearance fee's they all charge to show up at events in their local areas.  That's something a person with a real job doesn't get.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Macrawn. Show Macrawn's posts

    Re: The NFL will suffer greatly...and, for what?

    In Response to Re: The NFL will suffer greatly...and, for what?:
    In Response to The NFL will suffer greatly...and, for what? : Considering that the vast majority of NFL players don't make that much for a career that most launched when they were peewees (with the very  slightest chance of making the NFL), that most will carry disabling injuries for the remainder of their lives, that they all have short careers, that they provide the majority of the talent in the operations, that their career choice requires them to donate a considerable portion of their income to charity (even after their careers have ended), that the bottom 70% don't really make all that much when you average their earnings based on ALL the number of years that they have played football to earn that money, then subtract their payments to their agents, publicists, personal trainers, etc., and I think it is unfair to say they or their unions are greedy. But as for rookie pay, yeah, I think that the NFL needs to have a reasonable cap so not to cripple rebuilding teams like the Pats, Chiefs, Bucs, Raiders, etc.  Not in the hundreds of thousands, because - again - it took them years of risk, hard work and pain to reach the NFL.   But not in the tens of guaranteed millions, either. I do not want to see a lock-out, nor do I want an 18-game schedule.
    Posted by chrisakawoody


    You are kidding right? I used to watch the stock market when I was a kid but I don't consider that the start of my financial career. 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from chrisakawoody. Show chrisakawoody's posts

    Re: The NFL will suffer greatly...and, for what?

    In Response to Re: The NFL will suffer greatly...and, for what?:

    You are all making notable points, but I will now go line-by-line:
    In Response to Re: The NFL will suffer greatly...and, for what? : 1) Most people at the top of their professions worked very hard to get there.  The owner's familiy worked hard to get where they are, just as the player did. No.  Most sports team owners inherited their wealth.  Very few were self-made.  Some claiming to be self-made started on third base, if you get my drift.2) Agents (after you are established) are luxuries.  Bottom run players do not need publicists, and the team provides trainers. 3) Players are asked to make apperances at charitable events.  They may be encouraged to give (like many are at work), but my guess is optional.  It is not a requirement. Wrong in spirit.  Theyare all strongly "encouraged" to start foundations and charities.  It is understood, but not spoken, that not doing so jeopardizes their careers.4) The bottom rung doesn't make as much because they are not exceptional.  They may have been exceptional in high school.  They may have been exceptional at college (and received compensation in the form of 100% scholarships).  That doesn't mean they are worthy of exceptional money at the next level. Then if they have little value, the teams can play the game without them...nope, that can't happen.  So they all have a value. 5) Why are earnings a function of all those years they played pee wee and HS football?  How are they different then doctors, lawyers, businessman who spent years preparing for their career? How many doctors, lawyers and business people do you know that started when they were seven?  There are the rare cases of entrepreneurs that do, but I am not arguing against their compensation, as you imply it.  And the average doctor, lawyer and high-end business person will still make more money in his or her career, though not being as selectively skilled at the respective profession, than the major lot of pro players.  I have a buddy that pulls down $350k a year as a doctor, yet he failed his MCATs and went to med school in Grenada. He' could make about $12 mill in today's money over his career.  Brain surgeons will make about $60 mil over their career in today's money.  Neither will suffer work related injuries. 6)  There are no sports leagues without owners willing to risk THEIR capital. Actually, many teams, maybe even most teams, are formed with shared risk by a pool of investors, so that risk is spread out.  The figurehead owners do not necessarily risk only their own money, nor the majority of the money.  They may only put up 10%. Read up on the formation of the Pats by Billy Sullivan. Injuries are a part of the potential high risk/potential spectacular reward equation they willingly accept.  Yes...at the price for which they are willing to except it. If the NFLPA wants to see a disproportionate amount of money go to unproven "interns", just don't expect the owners to also reward the graybeards.  The pie is finite.We agree that rookies should be capped.
    Posted by Encinitas


    You know, not that long ago the people of this country had a healthy, reasoned mistrust of the wealthy class, after the years of abuse the wealthy exacted.  Then TV came along with Red Scare propaganda programming that portrayed union laborers as Stalinists, then Dallas, Falcon's Crest, Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous, etc., idolizing the lifestyles of the rich, and gradually the lower 98% fell in love with the elite 2%, all while most of the elite 2% were undermining the lower 98% interests, tilting the game board in their favor through their paid-for special access to our elected pols. 

    Unless you are in the upper 2%, you should be pretty mad that we have returned to the economics of the robber baron days. If you don't understand that the economy was deliberately sabotaged by these elites to create a vulture market of investment opportunity, you need to start reading some business news and opening your minds. I write this as a guy with a journalism degree, a strong history background, and the experience of working within the field of finance the past 14 years.  Wake up.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from natesubs. Show natesubs's posts

    Re: The NFL will suffer greatly...and, for what?

    i think what they need to do is add a rookie salary cap which starts out much lower but teams can only sign players for 3 years but have the rights to players for years 4,5, 6 based on the round selected. they must then after 3 years renegotiate the players contract based on his performance.  this will prevent players who don't perform getting huge contracts.  then they must up the vet. minimum by 60%.  Then they should give the players 20 years of healthcare after they retire as opposed to the 5 years that they currently get. these player's bodies take a beating after being in the league for years.  plus you could cover the healthcare costs just by removing one jamarcus russell contract. To appease the owners they will add 2 more games to the season to increase the amount of $ to cover the costs of the increased vet min, extended healthcare to retired players in combination with the rookie salary cap.  however in order to go to 18 games we will have more injuries so the roster needs to be increased to 60.  then we have the problem of less audition time for rookies so i would increase the roster size for the first 2 games to 70 thus giving 10 more players a chance to make the roster.  I think with this plan both sides have made compromises and in turn i think everybody will be happy.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from chrisakawoody. Show chrisakawoody's posts

    Re: The NFL will suffer greatly...and, for what?

    In Response to Re: The NFL will suffer greatly...and, for what?:
    In Response to Re: The NFL will suffer greatly...and, for what? : You are kidding right? I used to watch the stock market when I was a kid but I don't consider that the start of my financial career. 
    Posted by Macrawn


    No disrespect, but my brother James started lifting weights every day for hours from the time he was nine in hope of playing pro ball.  Were you studying accounting and practicing statistical math for two hours a day from the age of nine in hopes of a career in business?  And did a devastating calculator injury sidetrack your plans after all that work?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from chrisakawoody. Show chrisakawoody's posts

    Re: The NFL will suffer greatly...and, for what?

    In Response to Re: The NFL will suffer greatly...and, for what?:
    i think what they need to do is add a rookie salary cap which starts out much lower but teams can only sign players for 3 years but have the rights to players for years 4,5, 6 based on the round selected. they must then after 3 years renegotiate the players contract based on his performance.  this will prevent players who don't perform getting huge contracts.  then they must up the vet. minimum by 60%.  Then they should give the players 20 years of healthcare after they retire as opposed to the 5 years that they currently get. these player's bodies take a beating after being in the league for years.  plus you could cover the healthcare costs just by removing one jamarcus russell contract. To appease the owners they will add 2 more games to the season to increase the amount of $ to cover the costs of the increased vet min, extended healthcare to retired players in combination with the rookie salary cap.  however in order to go to 18 games we will have more injuries so the roster needs to be increased to 60.  then we have the problem of less audition time for rookies so i would increase the roster size for the first 2 games to 70 thus giving 10 more players a chance to make the roster.  I think with this plan both sides have made compromises and in turn i think everybody will be happy.
    Posted by natesubs


    I am very impressed with your ideas.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: The NFL will suffer greatly...and, for what?

    Here's an idea. Once you get your atheletic scholarship then Get A Degree That Matters in the real world ! Economics and Commerce trump Sociology and Communications. If you get some crappy degree from some football factory don't complain to me when your life hits the skids after your playing career is over. Everyone knows the average career span for a professional athlete is very short.  I don't begrudge them wanting to earn as much as possible while they are able to play, just make sure that you have something to fall back on and don't make stupid business decisions. The NFL is already starting to educate players (cf: rookie symposium) about life after the NFL.

    I don't like the 18 game season, however, the NFL will definitely expand the roster if they try for an 18 game season. Sadly, the overall quality of play could suffer. It's unfortunate, but expanding the playoff (so more teams make it) would be laughable.
     
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    Re: The NFL will suffer greatly...and, for what?

    if the players choose football first before their education than i dnt feel sorry for them one bit, and is it someones fault for inheriting money that their family earned generations ago? not at all. dont blame the owners because they are rich thats just irrational. hey maybe get a degree in something while your getting your free ride to a major university and the players can be just as rich as the owners one day. 
     
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    Re: The NFL will suffer greatly...and, for what?

    In Response to Re: The NFL will suffer greatly...and, for what?:
    In Response to Re: The NFL will suffer greatly...and, for what? : Pure socialist drivel. Where to begin.  1) Whether there is a single owner or multiple owners, and whether they inherited or self started, it is still their capital at risk. 2) Prove the contractual obligation to give to charity, and show evidence of players that were cut because of failure to comply.  Restating it does not make it fact. 3)  Studying everyday (instead of getting passed along as many entitled jocks are) to excel in a different field is every bit as much work as football practice.  4)  Exceptional results deserve exceptional reward.  Mediocre results deserve meidocre reward.  The bottom rung gets what they earned.  If the NFLPA thinks the bottom rung is getting screwed, they should encourage their membership to share in true "union" spirit.  Name another "union" where the top performers get 50 to 100 times more than their "brothers". 5)  The game needs 53 players on a roster.  It also needs an owner to pay the salaries, market the team, pay the non football costs, etc.   On to the rest.  You may want to stop touting your journalism degree - it ranks among the least respected professions in America.  Right there with the CEO's they trash, and the Congress they adore (if they are socialist Democrats only, ofcourse).  Perhaps its because journalism schools produce legions of ill informed zombies fresh from their liberal indoctrination. While there are examples of silver spoons, most wealthy people got their through inventiveness, hard work and taking risks.  Most poor people are poor because of their skills, effort, and life choices.  If you do poorly in school, are a druggie, become an unwed teen mother, etc YOU are responsible for you fate.  It is not some evil rich man the held you down.  Liberal fixation on phony victimhood is just a cancer and liberals see only one cure - take from someone efforts and give it to someone else (provided they keep the collector/distributor in power, a basic tenet of Marxism).     Finally, those that have special favor with the pols ARE the unions.  Wake up an do a little journalistic exercise.  See who won and who lost in the GM  and Chrysler debacle.  Here is a hint..it wasn't the stockholders, executives, or creditors.
    Posted by Encinitas


    couldnt agree more bro.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from patriotway1. Show patriotway1's posts

    Re: The NFL will suffer greatly...and, for what?

    First let me add a few finer points to this thread if I may. I am very well educated, have done very well in the financial markets, and have dabbled in some very unique fields for profits. This being said, the NFL owners WILL NOT be hurt by this stand at all.
    Those of you out there (please do not feel insulted) that are not financially wealthy or do not have structured businesses that require diverse and contrived logic to evaluate their earnings and future potentials will not understand what is going on.
    In order to gain complete control of your market earnings you must sometimes cause your own stoppage to readjust where you lose your stabilities the most.
    The NFL is the same as any other market, they are a group of owners, this has been changing since the old days of the Individual that will spend more and at any cost to win. You sit as a group and you make decisions as a group, yo ushare the wealth and you CONTROL all of your market.
    I told many friends that the NFL League would get in on the rage of Fantasy Football when it first came out due to the profit potential of leagues, advertising and statisticle data transmitions and the like. Now most corporations are owners and they do whats best for themselves as a unit.
    To the angered fans and the fan that wrote this post, you have more power than you think. Dont go to games, dont go to preseason games, dont but the NFL package, dont buy memoribilia or clothing, in fact contribute nothing to the NFL at any phase and then you wont be so angry.
    To you the NFL is your favorite team to cheer for and spend your money on.
    To the owners its a business that they profit from, nothing more.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: The NFL will suffer greatly...and, for what?

    Salaries have spiraled out of control.  Stadiums have driven the costs up beyond reach of the average fan.  Teams need so many support personnel their "other" payroll has skyrocketed.  The NFL charges networks so much they must find the advertisers willing to pay top dollar, so we get 1500 beer and (ironically) erectile dysfunction ads in a row.  I don't think there is a way out, but salaries right now are driven by unproven, untested players.  I think we won't watch football next year at all.  Year after, maybe.  I think a rookie wage scale of no more than 1/2 the total of the highest paid veteran at the position.  Maximum bonus of 1/10 of the total rookie contract value.  Stop paying crazy kids top money.  This will slow the escalation of player contracts.  Raise rookie and vet minimums by 50 percent.  I have zero sympathy for anyone making more than a million a year, whatever the danger.  All these people went to college (mostly free) and could have gotten a degree.  Wage control fixes everything else.  If I went to my boss at raise time, and said "let me look at your books, I wan't to see if this raise you are proposing is fair"  I would be fired in about 10 seconds.  Its the players here who are out of control.  Teams pay silly money on doctors, materials, services (drunk limos) food, travel, and every other kind of expense.  This whole "players going broke" think is silly.  
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: The NFL will suffer greatly...and, for what?

    Wow, did I get my rant on there.  Doesn't even make sense.  Here is what I meant.

    1.  This is so broken, only destruction can fix it.
    2.  I don't think the players are right.  Owners are the drivers in this revenue generating system.  Players participate with little risk.
    3.  Owners did a bad job controlling their own costs.  The market did NOT police itself here, as crazies like Al Davis and Dan Snyder drove cost up and up for little or no purpose.  
    4. The Union, once it fulfilled it's original mandate of security and fair treatment for the workers, did what unions seem to always do, and demanded more and more. 
    5.  A system that rewards veterans ahead of novices is the only way to encourage players to keep striving for continued employment.  JaMarcus Russel made more in his NFL career than many players who played 5 or even 10 years in some cases.  A rookie wage scale tied to position and draft position with a limit on signing bonus is absolutely critical.
    6.  Players are not entitled to decide how much of the profit they will take.   The very idea is absurd.  Their participation costs them next to nothing, most costs are defrayed by the team.  They assume NONE of the risk of unsold seats, unsold air time, dead salaries, nothing. 

    I consider myself fairly liberal, and all the above seems right to me.  Its just SENSIBLE.  I don't think it has to be a political thing.  Whoever said something about someone commenting being socialist, dude, England is socialist.  half the world, and the state of vermont, is socialist.  Get a grip.  
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from mgraham. Show mgraham's posts

    Re: The NFL will suffer greatly...and, for what?

    Posts: 57
    First: 4/20/2009
    Last: 9/30/2010
    I think this 18 game schedule is strictly gamesmanship on the owners part for the new CBA. I think this is put on the table in order for a "quid pro quo". The players will give in to the rookie salary cap and the owners will revert back to the 16 game schedule. Thus the owners can recoup some money ( big time!)and in fact the veteran players will probably benefit  monetarily also. The only losers ... the college kids and agents ..who by the way aren't at the big table. 
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Homecheese. Show Homecheese's posts

    Re: The NFL will suffer greatly...and, for what?

    there's too much reading involved in this thread. Screw it.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from chrisakawoody. Show chrisakawoody's posts

    Re: The NFL will suffer greatly...and, for what?

    Encitas,

    Perhaps you missed the part about me working in finance for the past 14 years.  I have seen many tax returns, friend, and I've got news for you - most of the wealthy people with whom I've worked (my specialty) paid low income tax rates.  A lot of them paid no income tax at all. And with capital gains at 15%, many millionaires and billionaires are paying about 3-to-13 points below what working slobs pay.

    If you don't like entitlements, how do you feel about corporate welfare, which dwarfs individual welfare? For a perefect example, most sports stadiums are built on corporate welfare. 

    Screaming "SOCIALIST!" loudly doesn't mean you know more.  Experience might.  I have the experience of closely knowing college athletes and learning what they went through, plus I have viewed thousands of tax returns, many of wealthy people, many of owners of multi-million dollar businesses.  How about you? Oh yeah, and shoot me for learning how to investigate topics. I guess in this day of embracing anti-intellectualism, I should be ashamed for learning how to use my brain.

    I started here to make a case for why the athletes earn their money. I didn't want it to become acrimonious.  I didn't start into the socio-economic name calling.  Is that the way it has to be at this forum... figuratively yell, yell, yell at anybody that expresses I different POV? It's worse than ever here and getting older by the second.  Maybe you should go grab a beer with Russ.  You share the same manners. You'd probably become fast friends.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: The NFL will suffer greatly...and, for what?

    Talented people--movie stars, athletes, CEOs--demand lots of money for their work.  It's the American way.  It ain't socialism, it's pure capitalism.  And it's basic supply and demand.  There's a lot of demand for talented football players out there--but talented football players are rare. So they get paid a lot.  

    As far as the collective bargaining approach--what's wrong with it?  It's a free country and if the NFL owners can ban together to make rules and negotiate with the players, why shouldn't the players also be able to ban together to make rules and negotiate with owners?   

    Honestly, shouldn't we be rooting for the workers--the guys who actually play the sport--to make the lion's share of the money? We pay to watch them, after all, not to watch the owners sitting in their luxury boxes.  Why shouldn't the guys who do the actual work get the most money?

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw. Show Philskiw's posts

    Re: The NFL will suffer greatly...and, for what?

     the records for longest HRs at The U's field - 570 feet

    wow thats a spank!


    Rookie salary cap. agreed
    health care for players for 20 yrs agreed
    18 game season disagree. Think about the Pats for an example. When we went on our run in 2001 with an 18 game season plus possibly 4 more games a season, they would be playing 22 games a season. thats too much football for a 53 man roster. there would be no more dynastys because they couldnt physically do it.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from reegz04. Show reegz04's posts

    Re: The NFL will suffer greatly...and, for what?

    I agree...Too much reading on here...Plain and simple: I dont care what goes on behind the scenes, as I am not paid to care. Not my job....I will care however, when I work my A$% off and I want to sit on my couch and watch the game next year, and theres no Football...Not something I want to tolerate...we could go on and on about this all day...I am a Marine, do you think we "get treated right?" are we properly compensated for everything we give up when we serve?? (Thank you's from people walking by every once in a blue moon dont count, as they wont put back on the years of my life stress, and everythings else it has taken off )..do we make millions upon millions and still complain about money and our health?? Lets do a servey....what are there more of in America??: Homeless NFL stars, or Homeless Veterans?? But do Vets STOP SERVING or stop showing up because higher ups make a rule we dont agree with??? lol hahahaha no its simple: SHUT YOUR F&%#ING MOUTH and DO WHAT YOUR TOLD!!
     
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