1. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    The official let Welker walk thread...

    posted at 1/22/2013 4:04 PM EST

    I hate to say it, but I think it is time to let Wes go. I love what he has done for this team, but I am starting to realize that an offense that is "based" on him running five yard patterns is simply not going to win a championship.

    Really looking at his stats, the only thing he does well is catch a lot of passes. He was 2nd receptions, but 8th in yards. He was 34th in TDs and 78th in yards per catch. I am starting to realize that he is the ultimate system guy. He does not come up with big plays in big games. He needs the ball in space (he cannot catch the ball over a defensive players).

    I am not even considering the drops in this discussion. Yes, technically he was among the league leaders in drops. Go list at that list: it is basically an all-pro roster (Jimmy Graham, Victor Cruz, Demaryius Thomas, Brandon Marshall, Calvin Johnson).

    I just think the Welker and the McDaniels/O'Brien offense that is so effective in the regular season against average defenses cannot win big games against good defenses in the playoffs.

     

  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccsjl. Show ccsjl's posts

    Re: The official let Welker walk thread...

    posted at 1/22/2013 4:13 PM EST

    I wanted him gone last year after dropping the Lombardi trophy

     

  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from PATSthebest. Show PATSthebest's posts

    Re: The official let Welker walk thread...

    posted at 1/22/2013 4:15 PM EST

    Problem is not Welker's, it's that TB is having a hard time for what ever reason finding other alternatives on a consistent basis. A player can only catch what is thrown to him. It's not his fault that the offense keeps coming his way. If you want to see less Wleker catches don't trade or let him go, find complimentary alternatives.

     

  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: The official let Welker walk thread...

    posted at 1/22/2013 4:27 PM EST

    In response to PATSthebest's comment:

    Problem is not Welker's, it's that TB is having a hard time for what ever reason finding other alternatives on a consistent basis. A player can only catch what is thrown to him. It's not his fault that the offense keeps coming his way. If you want to see less Wleker catches don't trade or let him go, find complimentary alternatives.



    Its called they can't read a defense, adjust correctly, be durable AND get open.

    ...but hey let's listen to all the other brianiacs on these forums and not even attempt to keep the ONE guy who does do all that.

    Brilliant! Thank god the fans do not make the decisions.

     

     

  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from PATSthebest. Show PATSthebest's posts

    Re: The official let Welker walk thread...

    posted at 1/22/2013 4:31 PM EST

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

    In response to PATSthebest's comment:

     

    Problem is not Welker's, it's that TB is having a hard time for what ever reason finding other alternatives on a consistent basis. A player can only catch what is thrown to him. It's not his fault that the offense keeps coming his way. If you want to see less Wleker catches don't trade or let him go, find complimentary alternatives.

     



    Its called they can't read a defense, adjust correctly, be durable AND get open.

     

    ...but hey let's listen to all the other brianiacs on these forums and not even attempt to keep the ONE guy who does do all that.

    Brilliant! Thank god the fans do not make the decisions.

     



    Hey I'm a Tom Brady fan. My point is that Welker doesn't decide why the offense keeps coming to him. I want both TB and Welker to finish their careers as PAtriots. Further more with 2 more Superbowls.

     

  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from jam757. Show jam757's posts

    Re: The official let Welker walk thread...

    posted at 1/22/2013 4:40 PM EST

    right, but who takes his place and what happens when Edelman goes down again?? It seems to me the writing is on the wall and the chances Welker stays to take a few million less are slim to none. One of these teams will overpay him just to pry him away from NE. If this happens bring in a more physical receiver or simply spend the money on defense.

     

  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: The official let Welker walk thread...

    posted at 1/22/2013 4:40 PM EST

    In response to PATSthebest's comment:

    Problem is not Welker's, it's that TB is having a hard time for what ever reason finding other alternatives on a consistent basis. A player can only catch what is thrown to him. It's not his fault that the offense keeps coming his way. If you want to see less Wleker catches don't trade or let him go, find complimentary alternatives.



    I think the issue is not just Brady finding alternatives. I think that when Gronk is out, there a zero players out there who can be thrown to in coverage. Not just Welker, but the whole WR crew is undersized. Hernandez is an undersized TE (other teams have WRs who are bigger than him).

    I just think this offensive philosophy of little guys running around in space piles up stats for Brady in the regular season, but good defenses have figured out how to slow it down enough to beat the Patriots. 

    I think it is time to rethink the offensive philosophy. I am not talking run-pass ratio. I am talking the offense predicated on small wide receivers catching the ball mostly on screens and 3-5 yards patterns and hoping to make defensive players miss. 

     

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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: The official let Welker walk thread...

    posted at 1/22/2013 4:45 PM EST

    In response to PATSthebest's comment:

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

     

    In response to PATSthebest's comment:

     

    Problem is not Welker's, it's that TB is having a hard time for what ever reason finding other alternatives on a consistent basis. A player can only catch what is thrown to him. It's not his fault that the offense keeps coming his way. If you want to see less Wleker catches don't trade or let him go, find complimentary alternatives.

     



    Its called they can't read a defense, adjust correctly, be durable AND get open.

     

    ...but hey let's listen to all the other brianiacs on these forums and not even attempt to keep the ONE guy who does do all that.

    Brilliant! Thank god the fans do not make the decisions.

     

     



    Hey I'm a Tom Brady fan. My point is that Welker doesn't decide why the offense keeps coming to him. I want both TB and Welker to finish their careers as PAtriots. Further more with 2 more Superbowls.

     



    That's why I said the "other" brainiacs. My post was not directed towards you. I just gave you the answer to why in your question. I agree with you.

    Llyod is OK. Branch is just a useless at this point in his career. Losing Edleman and Stallworth hurt as another option and Gronk obviously.

    They could use one WR that's better than Llyod outside but more importantly they need to stay healthy.

    I'll bet you that if someone went back through all the SB winners in recent years that those teams were one of the healthiest teams all year long and certainly in the post season.

    Injuries are and always will be the great equalizer.

     

  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from jam757. Show jam757's posts

    Re: The official let Welker walk thread...

    posted at 1/22/2013 4:47 PM EST

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:

    In response to PATSthebest's comment:

     

    Problem is not Welker's, it's that TB is having a hard time for what ever reason finding other alternatives on a consistent basis. A player can only catch what is thrown to him. It's not his fault that the offense keeps coming his way. If you want to see less Wleker catches don't trade or let him go, find complimentary alternatives.

     



    I think the issue is not just Brady finding alternatives. I think that when Gronk is out, there a zero players out there who can be thrown to in coverage. Not just Welker, but the whole WR crew is undersized. Hernandez is an undersized TE (other teams have WRs who are bigger than him).

     

    I just think this offensive philosophy of little guys running around in space piles up stats for Brady in the regular season, but good defenses have figured out how to slow it down enough to beat the Patriots. 

    I think it is time to rethink the offensive philosophy. I am not talking run-pass ratio. I am talking the offense predicated on small wide receivers catching the ball mostly on screens and 3-5 yards patterns and hoping to make defensive players miss. 




    Someone else had mentioned it but it's time to take a flyer on a draft pick at WR maybe in the 3rd or 4th round. We need a big young kid who can run really fast. I know, probably a 10% chance of panning out but you never know. We've got megabucks tied up at the TE position so I don't see any high profile WR's coming here in free agency. I want to see more touches for Vareen next year!

     

  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: The official let Welker walk thread...

    posted at 1/22/2013 4:47 PM EST

    In response to jam757's comment:

    right, but who takes his place and what happens when Edelman goes down again?? It seems to me the writing is on the wall and the chances Welker stays to take a few million less are slim to none. One of these teams will overpay him just to pry him away from NE. If this happens bring in a more physical receiver or simply spend the money on defense.



    That is my point. I do not want another 5'10" (Edelman) or 5'11" (Amedola) guy taking Wes Welker's place in the current offense. I want them to change the offense up and rethinking the stuff that gets you astronomical regular season stats, but cannot replicate it against good defenses in the post-season.

     

  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rodimus77. Show Rodimus77's posts

    Re: The official let Welker walk thread...

    posted at 1/22/2013 4:47 PM EST

    Don't want to see him walk nor do I want the Pats to use a chunk of cap to re-sign him but I would like to see the Pats sign a legit WR so Wes, if he returns, can go back to the slot position. He should not be the focal point of the offense. 

     

  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: The official let Welker walk thread...

    posted at 1/22/2013 4:51 PM EST

    In response to jam757's comment:

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:

     

    In response to PATSthebest's comment:

     

    Problem is not Welker's, it's that TB is having a hard time for what ever reason finding other alternatives on a consistent basis. A player can only catch what is thrown to him. It's not his fault that the offense keeps coming his way. If you want to see less Wleker catches don't trade or let him go, find complimentary alternatives.

     



    I think the issue is not just Brady finding alternatives. I think that when Gronk is out, there a zero players out there who can be thrown to in coverage. Not just Welker, but the whole WR crew is undersized. Hernandez is an undersized TE (other teams have WRs who are bigger than him).

     

    I just think this offensive philosophy of little guys running around in space piles up stats for Brady in the regular season, but good defenses have figured out how to slow it down enough to beat the Patriots. 

    I think it is time to rethink the offensive philosophy. I am not talking run-pass ratio. I am talking the offense predicated on small wide receivers catching the ball mostly on screens and 3-5 yards patterns and hoping to make defensive players miss. 

     




    Someone else had mentioned it but it's time to take a flyer on a draft pick at WR maybe in the 3rd or 4th round. We need a big young kid who can run really fast. I know, probably a 10% chance of panning out but you never know. We've got megabucks tied up at the TE position so I don't see any high profile WR's coming here in free agency. I want to see more touches for Vareen next year!

     



    I love that thought. I actually mentioned it in another thread. Look at how many decent, fast WRs go in rounds three and four (Mike Wallace, Cecil Shorts, TY Hilton, Mike Williams come to mind without even looking it up).

    No need for an all-pro, just a bigger faster guy then what they have now.

     

  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from kansaspatriot. Show kansaspatriot's posts

    Re: The official let Welker walk thread...

    posted at 1/22/2013 4:56 PM EST

    You never know, he might take a paycut to stay with a winner.

     

  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: The official let Welker walk thread...

    posted at 1/22/2013 5:04 PM EST

    In response to jam757's comment:

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:

     

    In response to PATSthebest's comment:

     

    Problem is not Welker's, it's that TB is having a hard time for what ever reason finding other alternatives on a consistent basis. A player can only catch what is thrown to him. It's not his fault that the offense keeps coming his way. If you want to see less Wleker catches don't trade or let him go, find complimentary alternatives.

     



    I think the issue is not just Brady finding alternatives. I think that when Gronk is out, there a zero players out there who can be thrown to in coverage. Not just Welker, but the whole WR crew is undersized. Hernandez is an undersized TE (other teams have WRs who are bigger than him).

     

    I just think this offensive philosophy of little guys running around in space piles up stats for Brady in the regular season, but good defenses have figured out how to slow it down enough to beat the Patriots. 

    I think it is time to rethink the offensive philosophy. I am not talking run-pass ratio. I am talking the offense predicated on small wide receivers catching the ball mostly on screens and 3-5 yards patterns and hoping to make defensive players miss. 

     




    Someone else had mentioned it but it's time to take a flyer on a draft pick at WR maybe in the 3rd or 4th round. We need a big young kid who can run really fast. I know, probably a 10% chance of panning out but you never know. We've got megabucks tied up at the TE position so I don't see any high profile WR's coming here in free agency. I want to see more touches for Vareen next year!

     



    Not like they haven't done that.

    PK Sam 5th round

    Bethal Johnson 2nd round

    Chad Jackson 2nd Round

    Mathew Slater 5th round

    Brandon Tate 3rd round

    Taylor Price 3rd round

     

    Hasn't worked out so well.

     

    Not saying you never try again. Just reminding.

     

  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: The official let Welker walk thread...

    posted at 1/22/2013 5:04 PM EST

    one of the problems is the Lloyd signing. He really is duplication of what Wes, Edelman, Branch are which is short to intermediate routes. If the Lloyd money was spent on a WR that could get down field and make plays, the other options for Brady would be even more deadly. The Ravens did not have to bother covering anything deeper than 10 yards.

    I have yet to see a catch by Lloyd that he has 5 yards after the catch, and Wes on his long catch against the Ravens should have been able to take it to the end zone, but he was caught from behind.

    Wallace is a waste of time due to $$$. Ditto Bowe. You have to think Avery or some one like him. Giants found Victor Cruz for virtually no money, so players are out there with out spending big.

    I can live with a group of Gronk, Hernandez, Ballard, Huma, Lloyd, Edelman, Avery, Slater next year.

    The elephant in the room, as I have been widely criticized for mentioning in the past is that BB the GM did no favors for BB the coach.

    Watching Gregory trying to cover, Lloyd tripping over his own feet, Cole trying to cover, 2nd rd draft chopice Wilson not able to get on the field, Fells unable to get open....poor job by BB last off season...this off season needs to be better

     

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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: The official let Welker walk thread...

    posted at 1/22/2013 5:10 PM EST

    Love Welker...great player...hope he catches a million balls next year....somewhere else. Time to spend that money somewhere else. Need help on D and Brady can turn a lesser player into something good enough. We can always draft a wideout and hope for the best too - we have 90 million tied into our tightends...let them start to earn it.

     

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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from tanbass. Show tanbass's posts

    Re: The official let Welker walk thread...

    posted at 1/22/2013 5:15 PM EST

    Letting the leading receiver in the NFL walk is just plain stupid. Why would you want to get rid of a guy who is a HUGE part of the productivity of your offense? Do you honestly believe the team is better without him? Taking 100+ receptions away from your offense is making it better? Sorry, but that is just completely insane.

    You want to make this offense more effective?....add some players that compliment what you already have. Taking away one of your strengths is ridiculous.

     

  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from kansaspatriot. Show kansaspatriot's posts

    Re: The official let Welker walk thread...

    posted at 1/22/2013 5:19 PM EST

    When you drop two key passes in back to back years that cost the patriots the game, it's hard for fans to find the love to want to keep him.

    When I see big WR's jumping high and catching balls that propel their teams to victory, that's what i want.

     

  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: The official let Welker walk thread...

    posted at 1/22/2013 5:23 PM EST

    I guess the team reads these and they shall let Welker go.  THANKS, Wes, for your great service, but, you do not deserve to get paid by the Pats.  Sounds about right?

     

  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: The official let Welker walk thread...

    posted at 1/22/2013 5:26 PM EST

    In response to tanbass' comment:

    Letting the leading receiver in the NFL walk is just plain stupid. Why would you want to get rid of a guy who is a HUGE part of the productivity of your offense? Do you honestly believe the team is better without him? Taking 100+ receptions away from your offense is making it better? Sorry, but that is just completely insane.

    You want to make this offense more effective?....add some players that compliment what you already have. Taking away one of your strengths is ridiculous.



    BAss, in a zero sum budget, you are correct. But there is a cap, and the money for Wes has already been allotted to Lloyd, Gronk and Hernandez. Those are your first 3 options for short to intermediate routes. Seems Edelman was developing into a 4th option....seems those 4 plus Ballard and vereen can handle the work load/productivity of Wes.

    Other needs obviously need correcting, and those $$$ have to come from somewhere.

     

  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: The official let Welker walk thread...

    posted at 1/22/2013 5:26 PM EST

    In response to kansaspatriot's comment:

    When you drop two key passes in back to back years that cost the patriots the game, it's hard for fans to find the love to want to keep him.

    When I see big WR's jumping high and catching balls that propel their teams to victory, that's what i want.



    For me the drops do not even figure into it. I think when your offense is based on a 5'9" WR running screens and 3-yard crossing patterns (15% of all offensive plays and 27% of all passes went to Welker), you may pile up regular season stats but you are not winning the playoffs. I offer the Patriots number one offense and zero titles over the past six seasons as evidence of this.

     

  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccsjl. Show ccsjl's posts

    Re: The official let Welker walk thread...

    posted at 1/22/2013 6:12 PM EST

    Funny but if a kicker missed an SB winning kick, he wouldnt have even been in camp this year....Yet Welker drops the game winning pass and hes still here..