The Patriots are the 2nd most balanced team in the NFL behind Indy, #3 Def, #8 Off. Surprised?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    The Patriots are the 2nd most balanced team in the NFL behind Indy, #3 Def, #8 Off. Surprised?

    posted at 12/21/2009 8:50 PM EST

    I have not been impressed by the Patriots the Past month so I was surprise to see that they have the 3rd best defense in the NFL (behind NYJ, and Baltimore and tied with Cincy at 17.4 pts a game).

    The offense despite being #2 in yards is only 8th in points per game at 26.1.

    The only teams who are top ten in both categories are:
                   OFF rank           Def rank
    Indy            4                      4
    NE              8                      3
    MINN           3                      8
    Balt             9                      2

    FYI, NO        1                     19

    I know "Stats aren't everything" and "you are what you're record says you are" but these numbers made me optimistic.  Anyone surprise NE's defense is ranked 3rd?
     

  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Norger. Show Norger's posts

    Re: The Patriots are the 2nd most balanced team in the NFL behind Indy, #3 Def, #8 Off. Surprised?

    posted at 12/21/2009 9:50 PM EST

    The defensive stats are totally misleading.  If there's a stat for time of possession, I bet the Pats are up near the top.  BB has been trying to protect this defense all year.

    Any chance they can manufacture a pass rush against a good team in the playoffs with some of gimmicks they used against Buffalo?
     

  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from mgolden13. Show mgolden13's posts

    Re: The Patriots are the 2nd most balanced team in the NFL behind Indy, #3 Def, #8 Off. Surprised?

    posted at 12/21/2009 10:47 PM EST

    Pats TOP is 33:27, which is tops in the league, but not by much.

    2 Bengals   33:21
    3 Steelers  33:17
    4 Packers   32:47
    5 Dolphins  32:38
     

  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from 81pats12. Show 81pats12's posts

    Re: The Patriots are the 2nd most balanced team in the NFL behind Indy, #3 Def, #8 Off. Surprised?

    posted at 12/21/2009 11:03 PM EST

    i've been trying to tell everyone that would listen... this team is winning like the early superbowl teams did... grind it out, tough running, tough defense and play action passing... we aren't that bad but it seems like that to alot of people because of 2007 and that's the way its always going to be...the patriots teams that come after the brady/moss era will always be fighting the ghost of 07
     

  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from patsfaninsatx. Show patsfaninsatx's posts

    Re: The Patriots are the 2nd most balanced team in the NFL behind Indy, #3 Def, #8 Off. Surprised?

    posted at 12/21/2009 11:22 PM EST

    Its funny, because they play great defense against bad teams and get lit up against good teams. 
     

  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from number1troll. Show number1troll's posts

    Re: The Patriots are the 2nd most balanced team in the NFL behind Indy, #3 Def, #8 Off. Surprised?

    posted at 12/21/2009 11:28 PM EST

    Stats are for fun and not much else, but I'd be curious to see the rankings minus the shellacking of the Titans.
     

  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Casportsfan. Show Casportsfan's posts

    Re: The Patriots are the 2nd most balanced team in the NFL behind Indy, #3 Def, #8 Off. Surprised?

    posted at 12/21/2009 11:50 PM EST

    In Response to Re: The Patriots are the 2nd most balanced team in the NFL behind Indy, #3 Def, #8 Off. Surprised?:
    i've been trying to tell everyone that would listen... this team is winning like the early superbowl teams did... grind it out, tough running, tough defense and play action passing... we aren't that bad but it seems like that to alot of people because of 2007 and that's the way its always going to be...the patriots teams that come after the brady/moss era will always be fighting the ghost of 07
    Posted by 81pats12


    Oh god, please.  You guys need to let go of the past here.  The last SB won by this franchise was what, 5 years ago?  And how many of the players on that team are currently on this team?

    A better question is, who has this team beaten?  The Falcons?  The Ravens?  Two teams that may end 9-7?  The Pats have literally lost to every decent team they have played this year, and they've already provent they can't win on the road.

    It's over man.  1 and done, or possibly 1 win at gillette, then completely blown out on the road in San Diego or Indy.  Get real with the SB talk.
     

  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: The Patriots are the 2nd most balanced team in the NFL behind Indy, #3 Def, #8 Off. Surprised?

    posted at 12/22/2009 12:01 AM EST

    In Response to Re: The Patriots are the 2nd most balanced team in the NFL behind Indy, #3 Def, #8 Off. Surprised?:
    Stats are for fun and not much else, but I'd be curious to see the rankings minus the shellacking of the Titans.
    Posted by number1troll

    Without the Titans game Pats would be ranked 7th in defense at 18.7 PPG.  They would be 11th in offense at 23.5 PPG.  Ofcourse you could probably do that for every team.  Indy blew out St Louis 42-7, NO blew out TB 38-7, and MINN has blown out a couple of bad teams by about 30. 
    Here's interesting stat that I think is good for sorting through the teams who have similiar record.  Margin of victory basically tells you the ability of the team to score and stop thier opponent from scoring and it coincides with who you would think should be first.
    1. NO    13.2
    2. Indy  10.4
    3. Minn  9.0
    4. Bal    8.9
    5. NE     8.6

    I'm just looking for hope, It's Christmas time.
     

  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: The Patriots are the 2nd most balanced team in the NFL behind Indy, #3 Def, #8 Off. Surprised?

    posted at 12/22/2009 12:02 AM EST

    In Response to Re: The Patriots are the 2nd most balanced team in the NFL behind Indy, #3 Def, #8 Off. Surprised?:
    In Response to Re: The Patriots are the 2nd most balanced team in the NFL behind Indy, #3 Def, #8 Off. Surprised? : Oh god, please.  You guys need to let go of the past here.  The last SB won by this franchise was what, 5 years ago?  And how many of the players on that team are currently on this team? A better question is, who has this team beaten?  The Falcons?  The Ravens?  Two teams that may end 9-7?  The Pats have literally lost to every decent team they have played this year, and they've already provent they can't win on the road. It's over man.  1 and done, or possibly 1 win at gillette, then completely blown out on the road in San Diego or Indy.  Get real with the SB talk.
    Posted by Casportsfan

    So I guess the team with the best record wins the SB every year.
     

  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wizardsjag. Show Wizardsjag's posts

    Re: The Patriots are the 2nd most balanced team in the NFL behind Indy, #3 Def, #8 Off. Surprised?

    posted at 12/22/2009 12:03 AM EST

    In Response to Re: The Patriots are the 2nd most balanced team in the NFL behind Indy, #3 Def, #8 Off. Surprised?:
    In Response to Re: The Patriots are the 2nd most balanced team in the NFL behind Indy, #3 Def, #8 Off. Surprised? : Oh god, please.  You guys need to let go of the past here.  The last SB won by this franchise was what, 5 years ago?  And how many of the players on that team are currently on this team? A better question is, who has this team beaten?  The Falcons?  The Ravens?  Two teams that may end 9-7?  The Pats have literally lost to every decent team they have played this year, and they've already provent they can't win on the road. It's over man.  1 and done, or possibly 1 win at gillette, then completely blown out on the road in San Diego or Indy.  Get real with the SB talk.
    Posted by Casportsfan


    So we win a playoff game and get knocked out the next week. Not bad for a off year. In this league of free agency next year we pick up a few good players (maybe no cap) and whoa! 2010 Super Bowl champs!
     

  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from emiliosCA. Show emiliosCA's posts

    Re: The Patriots are the 2nd most balanced team in the NFL behind Indy, #3 Def, #8 Off. Surprised?

    posted at 12/22/2009 12:57 AM EST

    In Response to Re: The Patriots are the 2nd most balanced team in the NFL behind Indy, #3 Def, #8 Off. Surprised?:
    In Response to Re: The Patriots are the 2nd most balanced team in the NFL behind Indy, #3 Def, #8 Off. Surprised? : So we win a playoff game and get knocked out the next week. Not bad for a off year. In this league of free agency next year we pick up a few good players (maybe no cap) and whoa! 2010 Super Bowl champs!
    Posted by Wizardsjag


    Packing up the tent, huh?
     

  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from NickC1188. Show NickC1188's posts

    Re: The Patriots are the 2nd most balanced team in the NFL behind Indy, #3 Def, #8 Off. Surprised?

    posted at 12/22/2009 1:24 AM EST

    I thought you meant balanced as in run/pass

    I'd be interested to see if they're balanced between run and pass for each formation.  I still think they run too much from singleback 1RB-2TE (aka 12 personnel) and even singelback 1RB-1TE (aka "11").

    I think the key with each team is finding key areas to attack.  With the Patriots, it's 3rd down defense, red zone defense, and red zone offense.  In the Pats' case, I think their failures on 3rd downs and in the red zone have allowed opponents to capitalize on each opportunity they get, which might skewer the stats because they'd give up less yards but more points, and in key situations (these two defensive weaknesses imply that the defense is not "clutch")
     

  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: The Patriots are the 2nd most balanced team in the NFL behind Indy, #3 Def, #8 Off. Surprised?

    posted at 12/22/2009 2:47 AM EST

    In Response to Re: The Patriots are the 2nd most balanced team in the NFL behind Indy, #3 Def, #8 Off. Surprised?:
    I thought you meant balanced as in run/pass I'd be interested to see if they're balanced between run and pass for each formation.  I still think they run too much from singleback 1RB-2TE (aka 12 personnel) and even singelback 1RB-1TE (aka "11"). I think the key with each team is finding key areas to attack.  With the Patriots, it's 3rd down defense, red zone defense, and red zone offense.  In the Pats' case, I think their failures on 3rd downs and in the red zone have allowed opponents to capitalize on each opportunity they get, which might skewer the stats because they'd give up less yards but more points, and in key situations (these two defensive weaknesses imply that the defense is not "clutch")
    Posted by NickC1188

    I don't know exactly where they have been failing.  I think you're right about not getting stops in the situations when they need stops, and vice versa.

    I don't know the balance stats out of certain formations but they are 4th in passing and 14th in running.  NO is 3rd and 5th and appear to be the most balanced team in the league.  Indy is the least balanced at 1st in passing and last in running.  San Diego and NYJ are very unbalanced.

    With the best team in the league (Indy) being the least balanced and the next best team being the most balanced(NO), the only conclusion I could make is that balance does not seem to be imortant to a teams success.  I always thought is was important but we'll see if that becomes an issue for the Colts in the playoffs.
     

  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: The Patriots are the 2nd most balanced team in the NFL behind Indy, #3 Def, #8 Off. Surprised?

    posted at 12/22/2009 7:34 AM EST

    In Response to Re: The Patriots are the 2nd most balanced team in the NFL behind Indy, #3 Def, #8 Off. Surprised?:
    In Response to Re: The Patriots are the 2nd most balanced team in the NFL behind Indy, #3 Def, #8 Off. Surprised? : Oh god, please.  You guys need to let go of the past here.  The last SB won by this franchise was what, 5 years ago?  And how many of the players on that team are currently on this team? A better question is, who has this team beaten?  The Falcons?  The Ravens?  Two teams that may end 9-7?  The Pats have literally lost to every decent team they have played this year, and they've already provent they can't win on the road. It's over man.  1 and done, or possibly 1 win at gillette, then completely blown out on the road in San Diego or Indy.  Get real with the SB talk.
    Posted by Casportsfan

    The NE Patriots have only been "blown-out" by one team out of their five losses. And in four out of those five losses they had the lead going into the third quarter. I'm still unsure on this NE team. Sometimes they come out and bring with them the production that would make them SB Champs, and other times they play like ten year olds. Do I have faith that the Patriots can still make the Superbowl-- yes, I do. But we have to find a way to get other people not named Moss or Welker the ball. And, we have to find a way to get to the QB.

     

  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from mosseffect43. Show mosseffect43's posts

    Re: The Patriots are the 2nd most balanced team in the NFL behind Indy, #3 Def, #8 Off. Surprised?

    posted at 12/22/2009 7:42 AM EST

    the stats are always impressive against the weaker teams.you will see the ints and double digit sacks,if only they could do it against the better teams.stats are very important,for its a barometer on how well players,,and the team are doing.and it shows the barometer rises against the worse teams,and drops against the better teams.
     

  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheFantasyBaron. Show TheFantasyBaron's posts

    Re: The Patriots are the 2nd most balanced team in the NFL behind Indy, #3 Def, #8 Off. Surprised?

    posted at 12/22/2009 9:40 AM EST

    In Response to The Patriots are the 2nd most balanced team in the NFL behind Indy, #3 Def, #8 Off. Surprised?:
    I have not been impressed by the Patriots the Past month so I was surprise to see that they have the 3rd best defense in the NFL (behind NYJ, and Baltimore and tied with Cincy at 17.4 pts a game). The offense despite being #2 in yards is only 8th in points per game at 26.1. The only teams who are top ten in both categories are:                OFF rank            Def rank Indy            4                      4 NE              8                      3 MINN           3                      8 Balt             9                      2 FYI, NO        1                     19 I know "Stats aren't everything" and "you are what you're record says you are" but these numbers made me optimistic.  Anyone surprise NE's defense is ranked 3rd?
    Posted by shenanigan


    Take out the Tampa Bay and Tennessee games and replace those numbers with an average of the rest of the games and I bet those stats look way worse. Normally I would make a post like this based on stats but they're so skewed by those two blowouts that they're meaningless. I'd be interested in some trends anlysis though like what the Pats look like in offensive and defensive efficiency over the last five or so games.
     

  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from russgriswold. Show russgriswold's posts

    Re: The Patriots are the 2nd most balanced team in the NFL behind Indy, #3 Def, #8 Off. Surprised?

    posted at 12/22/2009 10:05 AM EST

    Umm, they picked off Manning, what 3 times in the Indy game?  People keep saying against "good teams". Well, guess what? A missed Gostkowski FG and coin toss loss in Denver is against a good team.  Baltimore is a good team. Atlanta is a good team that has had some injury problems recently.  Carolina just PASTED Minnesota. It's hard to qualify NFL quality teams when parity is like this. There is not one dominant team in the NFL right now.  The media drools over Favre in Minny, Brees in New Orleans and Peyton in Indy and now SD is the hot team to all of a sudden jump on, but if you are being honest and the Pats play their game on both sides, all of those teams are VERY beatable.   There is not one or two definitvely great teams this year.  Indy is the worst potentially undefeated team ever.  Once Bill Polian steps down from the comp. committee, their bag jobs by the refs will hopefully disappear.  There are at least 4 games this year where phantom calls came up in the last few mintues of the game, shifting momentum.  One of them as we know was the PAts/Indy game where NE DOMINATED Indy for 57 minutes before two sketchy calls directly favored Indy giving them the win. Not buying this gloom and doom rhetoric by the media here in Boston.
     

  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from russgriswold. Show russgriswold's posts

    Re: The Patriots are the 2nd most balanced team in the NFL behind Indy, #3 Def, #8 Off. Surprised?

    posted at 12/22/2009 10:41 AM EST

    These stats do mean nothing. I want ball control, commitment to the run, TEs used, don't turn it over and red zone TDs.  The D is playing well so I think they'll be just fine. The strength of this team is the offense and it's time for them to step up.
     

  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: The Patriots are the 2nd most balanced team in the NFL behind Indy, #3 Def, #8 Off. Surprised?

    posted at 12/22/2009 12:25 PM EST

    In Response to Re: The Patriots are the 2nd most balanced team in the NFL behind Indy, #3 Def, #8 Off. Surprised?:
    In Response to Re: The Patriots are the 2nd most balanced team in the NFL behind Indy, #3 Def, #8 Off. Surprised? : Oh god, please.  You guys need to let go of the past here.  The last SB won by this franchise was what, 5 years ago?  And how many of the players on that team are currently on this team? A better question is, who has this team beaten?  The Falcons?  The Ravens?  Two teams that may end 9-7?  The Pats have literally lost to every decent team they have played this year, and they've already provent they can't win on the road. It's over man.  1 and done, or possibly 1 win at gillette, then completely blown out on the road in San Diego or Indy.  Get real with the SB talk.
    Posted by Casportsfan

    Sure thing. We'll leave the SB talk to those CA teams that have been there within the past decade or so. Sound good?

    <chirp, chirp>

    Well, then why don't we just rejoin the conversation along with the CA teams that always talk about it, but never get to sniff it. Carry on.

     

  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    Re: The Patriots are the 2nd most balanced team in the NFL behind Indy, #3 Def, #8 Off. Surprised?

    posted at 12/22/2009 1:14 PM EST

    This thread right here should tell you everything you need to know about statistics and the people who love them.

    The stats say such and thus, but if you take out this one and that one, they say like and so, and if you further manipulate them, taking into account whatever bullsh*t point I was originally trying to make, you can clearly see that the statistics roundly support . . .

    nothing at all.
     

  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: The Patriots are the 2nd most balanced team in the NFL behind Indy, #3 Def, #8 Off. Surprised?

    posted at 12/22/2009 2:03 PM EST

    In Response to Re: The Patriots are the 2nd most balanced team in the NFL behind Indy, #3 Def, #8 Off. Surprised?:
    This thread right here should tell you everything you need to know about statistics and the people who love them. The stats say such and thus, but if you take out this one and that one, they say like and so, and if you further manipulate them, taking into account whatever bullsh*t point I was originally trying to make, you can clearly see that the statistics roundly support . . . nothing at all.
    Posted by prairiemike

    I took a quick look at the 5 Patriots losses and realized that if I removed them, the Pats would be undefeated. 

     

  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from jedinate. Show jedinate's posts

    Re: The Patriots are the 2nd most balanced team in the NFL behind Indy, #3 Def, #8 Off. Surprised?

    posted at 12/26/2009 9:35 PM EST

    The rushing stats are misleading. Most of those yards are gained in the 1st half, out of the spread. When we need to grind out yards, in the 2nd half, we can't. We are pass happy, in the 2nd half, and it causes us to lose leads. The "game stats" don't always tell the truth.
     

  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from choircontrarian. Show choircontrarian's posts

    Re: The Patriots are the 2nd most balanced team in the NFL behind Indy, #3 Def, #8 Off. Surprised?

    posted at 12/26/2009 10:08 PM EST

    parcells said it best "at some point u are what your record says u are!" u can also add at some point u are what the stats say u are. numbers esp after 14 games must have some truth to it. imp that we take it as is. whether they come from playg in a dome, in a few blowouts like TN or what not. in big pic, it should all add up or even out. i take nothing out. now within the general numbers or the details, sometimes u can get some great nuggets. like with the colts, overall they are balenced but not on offense specifically. they are 1st in passing but LAST in rushing includg total yardage, yards per game and average per carry. if indy must rely on their run game, they are in big trouble, which is y they will fizzle per normal, in the PLAYOFFS!