The Pats are failing, and few want to look at the main reason!!

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    Re: The Pats are failing, and few want to look at the main reason!!

    In Response to Re: The Pats are failing, and few want to look at the main reason!!:
    [QUOTE]In the long run BB will always fix the QB, fix the offensive line, fix the defensive line and maybe the inside linebacker position.  The tight ends are on the offensive line and so BB got at least one great blocker in Big Gronk.  The line is where championships are won.  That leaves wideout, running back and defensive backfield.  Some area of the field has to suffer.  Strange to say, BB has been drafting like crazy in the defensive backfield and has nothing to show for it except Chung.  He keeps getting guys that play well one year, then get injured.  McCourty appears to be playing injured.  Meriweather was good in his rookie year but he's out.  Butler took a hike.  Dowling is on IR.  Most of the current cornerbacks are guys off of the street.  Still, the formula has gotten the Patriots to 5-2, and the two losses were both tough teams at their home stadiums with notable favoritism by the refs. I thought Brady had a good comeback drive against the Cowboys.  He was at least driving down the field in the fourth quarter against Pittsburgh.
    Posted by Paul_K[/QUOTE]
    I think it was by design (obviously) that they tried to build their secondary through the draft. I think the reason for it is that it is cost effective to do it; it would cost a fortune to sign premiere corners for your defense. The problem with this is it left other areas neglected and on top of it all...it failed miserably. If it had worked we would of found our next Asante or Ty Law and not had to worry about paying him for 5 years (or at all), then we could of maybe spent some cash on the front seven...didn't happen.

    The funny thing is aside from Bodden, they haven't spent big on the secondary and even his contract wasn't huge (maybe for our standards it was). So where did all the money go? To Vince, Brady? Christ they still had like 10 million to spend under the cap before the season started! If you didn't give Ellis 3million or Ocho 7 million, they would of had 17 million to play with for an impact type of guy. Never mind the fact that there are contracts on the team that could of been restructured if needed.

    I'm sorry, but I think they screwed this up. I'm happy we've got Bill and Brady, but I expect more when you have two of the best at the most critical spots on a football team.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: The Pats are failing, and few want to look at the main reason!!

    Quasi... .  Exactly , it's about the OC philosophy... In the 4th qtr... Knowing how to WIN...!!  It used to be that the pats had that edge... They were smarter ,  better coaching ...why?  A little  streak called 21 in a row, 3out of4 SB ...  They had the formula .  Other teams wilted ... They knew!  We owned the 4th qtr.

    You could say that this shift shows the value of an experienced OC.  And that BB is diminished since his so-called demise since 2004 has coincided with the loss of Weis and crennel... That's a good question , which coordinator is missed more...?  IMO it's by far the OC Weis.

    It is obvious since where is the talent ...?  The offense was loaded in 2007, we go 18-0... And we can't finish the deal ?  Weis
    would have made adjustments and run the giants DL ragged with screens and reverses.  McDaniels was so outclassed in that game ,like adeer in the headlights ,like the OC Jr. that he was.

    BB is being exposed ... One game at a time ...the ego is doing him no justice. You can't do it alone ,bro. 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from nyjoseph. Show nyjoseph's posts

    Re: The Pats are failing, and few want to look at the main reason!!

    The OP thesis seems to be that Brady has lost his mojo.   Where is Austin Powers when you need him?

    In the remake, would Rex Ryan get the role of Fat B@st@rd?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: The Pats are failing, and few want to look at the main reason!!

    Mt hurl...  building a secondary is a mystery apparently.  You can't teach speed, so start  
    there .  Assante was small but fast... 4th round all pro.  Harrison was just pure football like polamalu...fast and skilled.  Pittsburgh traded up to get him 16th overall.

    when was the  last time BB traded up in a draft to get a known (to him) talent ? Seymour ?  Not sure .  Point being BB chronically trades down , like  Samuels , bradys, brusckis are all over the place.  

    BB is a bargain shopper .  You get what you pay for.  Cliches aside ... Maybe the scouts need to do better job and BB needs to buy in.  


    It's about finding the players . Fast intelligent players





     
     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from quasi1981. Show quasi1981's posts

    Re: The Pats are failing, and few want to look at the main reason!!

    Thanks ipot, there is a lot of truth to what you are saying, and then again, a great team, a great QB, will find ways to get the job done in those big games.  Brady today is like a coach on the field and he is free to audible, which is the one thing that separates him from the young TB.  Where is his creative mind here?  Why does the offense look so lethargic these past 5 years when behind, and why was Brady so cool back then, taking tons of hits and always cool?  Has he lost his edge, and I heard him after the Cowboy game saying he would much rather have been up by 3 or so TDs instead of a last second win.  Isn't the greatest feeling of being an athlete the chance to be in the final seconds of the title game, Montana getting that TD late to win it all, Brady's drive vs the Rams, Russell making that shot block in game 7 setting up Sam Jones for the winning shot at the buzzer, & the best ever, the Turk setting up Superman Bobby Orr for that greatest photo or video in sports history.  

    Why has Brady lost that desire to COMPETE??  A huge question after what he said after the Cowboy game, a great team effort and with a great finishing drive at the end.

    We all want our teams to win big, but what we remember, and so do the athletes themselves, is playing the game of there lives where there is no separation for 95% of the game between the two teams till that last second when that separation happens, and now your team and fans are feeling a great relief, a joy beyond words or they have a feeling they just can't explain nor do they want to.  But it keeps you on the edge of your seats, you are finished with your hands, and now you are biting off your toe nails, or maybe you are so stressed, you are now on to your girlfriends nails!

    I know Montana loved those moments and I couldn't believe when I heard Brady say it; that he'd much rather have the blowouts!!

    That was the moment I knew it was time to write this post.  I blame BB for going this root, not TB, and I feel it killed something inside Brady, and if it dies inside him, the man who brought that invincible feeling to his team for the 1st time way back in 2001, then his team will follow suit.

    More than anything this team has lost its intangibles, the attitude, the belief in each other, in knowing how to WIN no matter what direction that game seems to be going.  The best example for those who don't understand intangibles is watching Tim Tebow w/ the Broncos.  He looks like he can't play QB at all for most of the game, and then in the last few minutes if the game is close, he finds a way to win which can't be explained with Xs and Os!

    The 2001 team didn't have anything that looked like it had the ingredients for greatness, till this skinny kid who was 4th or 5th on the depth chart a year before, came on to the field to fill in for the injured Bledsoe , and the whole attitude of that team changed completely on both sides of the ball, and on the sideline, and up in the owners box.

    Something is philosphically wrong here, and it all started in 07 when it became ok to be "classless" which most fans here want from our athletes, and be up 49-0 in the 4th Q and keep pouring it on, trying to win by 100 points if possible, when this kid Brady had brought to this team a gift of always being in the game no matter how close, and then rally around this kid to win games this franchise had never seen before.  07 ended that, and hence, this team had lost its identity. It will still be very competitive, but is it built for the playoffs which is tough, gritty, very close games, where winning by 49-0 is virtually out of the question?
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from quasi1981. Show quasi1981's posts

    Re: The Pats are failing, and few want to look at the main reason!!

    In Response to Re: The Pats are failing, and few want to look at the main reason!!:
    [QUOTE]Thanks ipot, there is a lot of truth to what you are saying, and then again, a great team, a great QB, will find ways to get the job done in those big games.  Brady today is like a coach on the field and he is free to audible, which is the one thing that separates him from the young TB.  Where is his creative mind here?  Why does the offense look so lethargic these past 5 years when behind, and why was Brady so cool back then, taking tons of hits and always cool?  Has he lost his edge, and I heard him after the Cowboy game saying he would much rather have been up by 3 or so TDs instead of a last second win.  Isn't the greatest feeling of being an athlete the chance to be in the final seconds of the title game, Montana getting that TD late to win it all, Brady's drive vs the Rams, Russell making that shot block in game 7 setting up Sam Jones for the winning shot at the buzzer, & the best ever, the Turk setting up Superman Bobby Orr for that greatest photo or video in sports history.   Why has Brady lost that desire to COMPETE??  A huge question after what he said after the Cowboy game, a great team effort and with a great finishing drive at the end. We all want our teams to win big, but what we remember, and so do the athletes themselves, is playing the game of there lives where there is no separation for 95% of the game between the two teams till that last second when that separation happens, and now your team and fans are feeling a great relief, a joy beyond words or they have a feeling they just can't explain nor do they want to.  We all remember 2 huge Red Sox moments: Beating the Yankees in game 7 in 04 and in 86 that infamous Game 6 Seinfeld reruns keep rubbing in. But it keeps you on the edge of your seats, you are finished biting your nails off your hands, and now you are biting off your toe nails, or maybe you are so stressed, you are now on to your girlfriends nails! I know Montana loved those moments and I couldn't believe when I heard Brady say it; that he'd much rather have the blowouts!! That was the moment I knew it was time to write this post.  I blame BB for going this root, not TB, and I feel it killed something inside Brady, and if it dies inside him, the man who brought that invincible feeling to his team for the 1st time way back in 2001, then his team will follow suit. More than anything this team has lost its intangibles, the attitude, the belief in each other, in knowing how to WIN no matter what direction that game seems to be going.  The best example for those who don't understand intangibles is watching Tim Tebow w/ the Broncos.  He looks like he can't play QB at all for most of the game, the tangibles, and then in the last few minutes if the game is close, he finds a way to win which can't be explained with Xs and Os, and that is the intangibles as his spirit rallies his team behind him for the win! The 2001 team didn't have anything that looked like it had the ingredients for greatness, till this skinny kid who was 4th or 5th on the depth chart a year before, came on to the field to fill in for the injured Bledsoe , and the whole attitude of that team changed completely on both sides of the ball, and on the sideline, and up in the owners box. Something is philosphically wrong here, and it all started in 07 when it became ok to be "classless" when most fans here want class from our athletes, and the Pats already being up 49-0 in the 4th Q and keep pouring it on, trying to win by 100 points if possible, when this kid Brady had brought to this team a gift of always being in the game no matter how close, and then rally around this kid to win games this franchise had never seen before.  07 ended that, and hence, this team had lost its identity. It will still be very competitive, but is it built for the playoffs which is tough, gritty, very close games, where winning by 49-0 is virtually out of the question?
    Posted by quasi[/QUOTE]
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from hardright. Show hardright's posts

    Re: The Pats are failing, and few want to look at the main reason!!

    OK, well, if being 5-2 through 7 games with a fairly tough schedule (both losses on the road by a total of 11 points against two teams with a combined 4 losses)--is considered "failing," then please, let the Pats "fail" like this every season.

    I know, I know, "they haven't won a Super Bowl in 7 years!!!" It's a horrible tragedy, yes, I know.

    Then again, the 26 other teams not named the Colts, Steelers, Saints, Giants or Packers haven't won a Super Bowl since 2004 either.

    God people...PERSPECTIVE please.

    Yes, I know the rebuilding of the defense since 2008 hasn't gone well so far, but there are some pretty decent young players on that side of the ball, and there's always a chance that there will be that one offseason where the Pats hit on every move (like they did in 2003, for instance; or like the 49ers did in 1986).

    And again, drafting as low as the Pats do every year (because of their success) makes it hard to find impact defenders in this "fantasy/flag" football league that Polian and Goodell have created.

    Perspective.

    Let's try not to lose too much of it, OK?


     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: The Pats are failing, and few want to look at the main reason!!

    In Response to The Pats are failing, and few want to look at the main reason!!:
    [QUOTE]Fans around here have been so into kicking butt, being up by 35-0 before halftime, and they fail to see where this has killed this organization, and more important, it has taken the life out of our once - one of the greatest, or maybe the greatest QBs ever!! - He was once compared to Joe Montana as the best ever, not because of Stats.  Montana usually threw 250-300 yds, and he ran a very conservative blend of running/passing, but his team was always in the game.  He dictated the "terms" of the game whether ahead or behind, and you always knew you would have an excellent chance of being in the game and winning it at the very end. Our own TB was the same way.  If the Steelers scored 1st, he would come right back at them and score, and if he was up by 10 in the 1st Q he may not score another point till the second half when the Steelers or whoever, cut the lead to 7 or 3 points, and then on the next set of downs he would come out of the huddle, and you could tell how the team came out that TB was ready and they all followed suit, and march down the field to score.  He played to the score, keeping the team in the game, and then the final 2 minutes and wow; how many games he won in that last second. Yesterday TB said after the game that they got behind and never "dictated the terms of the game".  That was huge!!  The young pre Moss/Welker QB always dictated the game behind or out in front! Brady has lost that most important intangible; the one that keeps himself and his team in the game for 60 minutes.  When he came out down 7-0 yesterday, you could see the energy of the team, and it wasn't like it is at being up 7-0 as they usually are, where the SB era Pats came out like they were in full charge, and that was Brady's confidence in ALL situations where he needed to jack up his play with team coming out of the huddle full of confidence!  When he came in for Bledsoe's injury in 01 and sparked this team, and it was a team going nowhere, they all rallied behind him the way he rallied the team from all kinds of deficits.  The team knew it had a chance to win every game, and a true star was born ala Bill Russell!! We need that part of you to come back my friend!  Without that, this team is going nowhere.  When you play like it doesn't matter what the score is, and we are going to win this thing, the whole team rises to your level, offense and defense. Is it all your fault?  Hell no, but your leadership back then was unparalled, and all of us would trade all your BS stats for a great team leader who never shrugged at a deficit that he couldn't "dictate the terms of the game to". As our own great Bill Russell would say: It isn't how many rebounds you get, but when you get them!  and that my friend is what we need from you right now and nothing less will suffice!
    Posted by quasi[/QUOTE]

         You think that the main reason why the Pats aren't playing well is Brady??? Even Tom Terrific needs protection, and weapons.

         Tom hasn't been well protected over the last two games. Teams are taking away the short stuff...and Brady has no WR who can get separation in tight man coverage. He has no running attack, because his OL is not opening holes...and BJGE is hampered by a toe injury. On defense...the Pats' sport a tepid pass rush, and the league's worst secondary. 

         These are the main reasons for the teams' poor play of late.  
     
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    Re: The Pats are failing, and few want to look at the main reason!!

    In Response to Re: The Pats are failing, and few want to look at the main reason!!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to The Pats are failing, and few want to look at the main reason!! :      You think that the main reason why the Pats aren't playing well is Brady??? Even Tom Terrific needs protection, and weapons.      Tom hasn't been well protected over the last two games. Teams are taking away the short stuff...and Brady has no WR who can get separation in tight man coverage. He has no running attack, because his OL is not opening holes...and BJGE is hampered by a toe injury. On defense...the Pats' sport a tepid pass rush, and the league's worst secondary.       These are the main reasons for the teams' poor play of late.  
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]


    TexasPat3 - I am not speaking about the last 2 games, but of the last 5 years. This team went form grinding games out, and having the best QB in the game at winning those close games, like in the playoffs.  They can't win them anymore, and it is the finesse Moss/Welker trades that changed us into a front runner and teh whole attitude changed to winning by 49-0.

    In the playoffs and in other huge games, you are rarely going to win by a lot, and the games get more physical, and finesse fails to win.

    Brady looks timid when the games are close, or like last week after the Steelers scored twice and the Pats offense was 3 and out twice.  The attitude changed completely where if they were up by 7-14, Brady and CO would have been playing w/ confidence.

    The Best teams of all time play with confidence when things aren't going right, and this team isn't one of them, and the SB Brady and CO. was!

     
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    Re: The Pats are failing, and few want to look at the main reason!!

    In Response to Re: The Pats are failing, and few want to look at the main reason!!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Pats are failing, and few want to look at the main reason!! : I think Brady genuinely has the fire. I just think BB and O'brien need to rein him in with how the chooses to catch that fire. I completely agree with your premise. You said it perfectly in the fiirst post. "We weren't able to play on our terms."  - T. Brady Yep. And it's been a problem doing so in the 60%+ Base Shotgun Spread with Brady's leadership at the helm. It's up to BB and O'Brien to basically brainwash Brady into realizing the run game is actually his friend, not his enemy.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]


    King - Whatever it is, this offense, including Brady has lost a huge edge that has nothing to do with stats, but finding that place inside as a TEAM, and learn how to win games that are close and incredibly important like in the playoffs where they are completely out matched.
     
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    Re: The Pats are failing, and few want to look at the main reason!!

    In Response to Re: The Pats are failing, and few want to look at the main reason!!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Pats are failing, and few want to look at the main reason!! : Here it is: McDaniels and Brady were buddies. IMO, O'Brien is controlled by Brady.  Brady is really the OC here. In each case, Brady isn't getting enough objective coaching/game-calling from the OC. He either had McDaniels and his ego feeding him with a shotgun base spread or he now clearly is either demanding those kinds of plays, even when he shouldn't be. Last week was another great example, as was the game before against Dallas. Teams will play man coverage and simply sell out on the pass rush/pass D. It's just ridiculous to see them walk right inot the opponents' only hope to defend this. ESPN just showed NE's offense being held to only 3 plays of 20 or more yards in the last 2 games.  Horrendous. Part of it is good Ds with Dallas and Pitt, but BJGE or Ridley would have reeled off gashing runs with every DB' back to Brady in man coverage. Why isn't this seen?   It's pretty sad when ESPN's Merril Hoge is more on the ball than Brady is. When it's man, run the ball.  Have every WR/TE blast his man off the line.  When it's zone, pass. Hoge just showed Dallas and Pitt's Ds shut our offense down in the base shotgun spread, playing right into man coverage. It's what Cleveland did last year, as well as what the Jets did. Dallas did it, we just happened to barely win. The only reason why we had control of the Raiders and Jets games this year is because we put the onus on the O Line to run the ball. When Moss was dealt last year, our D gained confidence, jelled and locked it down, essentially right into January. Could not be any simpler.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    Agreed, and I remember saying when told that it was the OC O'brien that wasn't creative, that Brady knows far more what's going on out there, and why can't he see the field and call something that works.  

    The young kid Brady saw everything and found ways to win, running a play that he was given, and if Brady is as great as everyone here thinks, why can't he see what needs to be done and find the correct audible?

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: The Pats are failing, and few want to look at the main reason!!

    In Response to Re: The Pats are failing, and few want to look at the main reason!!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Pats are failing, and few want to look at the main reason!! : TexasPat3 - I am not speaking about the last 2 games, but of the last 5 years. This team went form grinding games out, and having the best QB in the game at winning those close games, like in the playoffs.  They can't win them anymore, and it is the finesse Moss/Welker trades that changed us into a front runner and teh whole attitude changed to winning by 49-0.
     
    RESPONSE: Looking at this problem as one that has strictly to do the offense is silly. The Pats' defense isn't what it used to be. In 2007, the defense couldn't stop Goober Manning from matching 83 yards in the final two minutes. Thereafter, the Pats' "D" has gotten gradually worse. BB traded away Seymour, lost Ty Warren to injury, Tedy Bruschi, Mike Vrabel, Rodney Harrison,and Rosevelt Colvin to old age, and Asante Samuel to money. They have never adequately replaced these players.   

    In the playoffs and in other huge games, you are rarely going to win by a lot, and the games get more physical, and finesse fails to win.
     
    RESPONSE: May I remind you that the defense was humiliated by the Ravens in 2009...who ran through the Pats' D-line like a hot knife goes through soft butter. Last year against the Jets, the "D" made Mark Sanchez look like Joe Montana.

    Brady looks timid when the games are close, or like last week after the Steelers scored twice and the Pats offense was 3 and out twice.  The attitude changed completely where if they were up by 7-14, Brady and CO would have been playing w/ confidence.
     
    RESPONSE: Nonsense. The last two weeks, the Cowboys and Steelers went to press/man coverage...jamming Welker and the TEs at the line of scrimmage, and taking away the short throws. Brady had no one to throw to. How confident would any QB be in a similar situation? The Pats have no deep threat...and every team knows it.

    The Best teams of all time play with confidence when things aren't going right, and this team isn't one of them, and the SB Brady and CO. was!

    RESPONSE: Yes. The current Pats are no where near as good as those championship teams, including the 2007 edition. That was a different day, and a different bunch of players...particularly on defense. 
    Posted by quasi[/QUOTE]
     
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    Re: The Pats are failing, and few want to look at the main reason!!

    In Response to Re: The Pats are failing, and few want to look at the main reason!!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Pats are failing, and few want to look at the main reason!! : Regarding the "deep threat" Moss-tinged obsession with fans like you:
     
    RESPONSE: LOL!!! He "tinged" plenty of defenses, too.

    A deep threat is pointless when Logie Mankins looks like a turnstile against Woodley, just like he did in SB 42 with this pathetic, one dimensional offense.
     
    RESPONSE: Huh? I didn't know that Woodley played for the Giants in SB 42. The Pats lost last week in Pittsburgh because the Steelers shut down Welker, and took away the short stuff...forcing Brady to look to his outside WRs...who could not get any separation from tight man coverage.
    Brady either has 10 seconds to throw or 3. Either way, it's not good enough, deep threat or not.
     
    RESPONSE: Ten seconds to throw isn't good enough?? Is that the fault of the OL...or of the Pats' WRs failing to get separation?

    A deep threat could be Matt Slater if you really wanted it, but by not running the ball, it's irrelevant.

    RESPONSE: What are talking about, Russ?????
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]
     
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    Re: The Pats are failing, and few want to look at the main reason!!

    In Response to Re: The Pats are failing, and few want to look at the main reason!!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Pats are failing, and few want to look at the main reason!! :
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    TexasPat3:

    No matter which way you turn, admit that this team has a hard times in close games no matter when they are played.

    The SB vs the Giants, we had the, laugh laugh, the greatest offense of all time, yet they couldn't run, no pass blocking whatsever, and the D played their hearts out, and the Giants made a great drive and except for Samuel's dropped easy pic, this team wins it all, and yet everyone blames the D when the offense did nothing, especially the O Line.

     
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    Re: The Pats are failing, and few want to look at the main reason!!

    In Response to Re: The Pats are failing, and few want to look at the main reason!!:
    [QUOTE]TPat exposed yet again. He'll argue just to play contrarian, which is all he does. 
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]


    Easy to spot

     
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    Re: The Pats are failing, and few want to look at the main reason!!

    Wow! if that wasn't the worse game Brady has ever played in New England!!  He was horrible, the D kept them in the game, and Brady ran that last drive the way most Pats fans make fun of other QBs in the game like Sanchez.

    How do you have the ball inside the 20 with a lot of time to go like 1:30 or so, and Manning has been the best come from behind QB this year as he got his fifth 4th Q win this year.  Why did TB keep throwing the ball, trying to score so fast.  I have never seen him do that even once in his career.

    There is something wrong with this offense, and Brady is beginning to lose it big time, and it saddens me that he can't win close big games any more, thou once in a while he can, but every time they are in a tough game, the offense falls apart and once again today, Brady led the charge. 

    I watched Tebow today, and he looked like a seasoned veteran compared to Brady.

    I can't remember the last time I felt sick after a game like today.
     
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