the Pioli factor

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronk1. Show ronk1's posts

    Re: the Pioli factor

    In Response to Re: the Pioli factor:
    [QUOTE]And what effective current NFL acquisitions has he done for KC?
    Posted by murghkhor[/QUOTE]
    I am not that familiar with KC's roster. But it seems they are in the process of turning over the entire roster since he and Haley got there. Of course the player that stands out is Vrabel, and while his contribution to the team on the field has been lower than his Pats days, he did start 14 games for them. I would assume he is setting the locker room tone as well.
    Of course, it remains to be seen how Cassell and T Jones pan out, but both are very professional, intelligent players in the mold of the types of players Pioli aquired when he was with the Pats
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: the Pioli factor

    Ronk, he's only been gone TWO years!  If the team really declines further, then, MAYBE, Pioli's loss has hurt more that expected if it meant BB is taking on the whole "team building" efforts on his own, being stretched too thin.  If they do great this year with all the new talent, then what will you say?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronk1. Show ronk1's posts

    Re: the Pioli factor

    Ronk, he's only been gone TWO years!  If the team really declines further, then, MAYBE, Pioli's loss has hurt more that expected if it meant BB is taking on the whole "team building" efforts on his own, being stretched too thin.  If they do great this year with all the new talent, then what will you say?

    agc, I think you are missing my point. Draft picks aside, my point is that Galloway, G Lewis, D Lewis, Burgess etc are misses and PERHAPS with Pioli on board other players would have been selected for an attempt at a roster spot.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: the Pioli factor

    I will say that BB's free agent acquisitions haven't hit as often as you would think.  I mean, unlike college prospects, the free agents have a ton of actual NFL film to study and assess.  That said, sometimes you have to get what's out there to fill a need, and it isn't always good.  

    As for drafting, I find it curious how the last 3 drafts under Pioli were not good.  "but what about Moss and Welker" some will ask.  They used draft picks.  They were a great use of draft picks.  They were not draft picks.  The last two drafts without Pioli have been very good.  Of course, despite the media (Reiss) discounting this, I think Floyd Reese is providing input to BB.  3 of Reese's 11 first round draft choices with the Titans won RoY.   Whatever the case, no denying that our drafts have gotten better since Pioli left.  We had a few bad years before that, and that is the reason we have had to bring in so many free agents.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronk1. Show ronk1's posts

    Re: the Pioli factor

    In Response to Re: the Pioli factor:
    [QUOTE]I will say that BB's free agent acquisitions haven't hit as often as you would think.  I mean, unlike college prospects, the free agents have a ton of actual NFL film to study and assess.  That said, sometimes you have to get what's out there to fill a need, and it isn't always good.   As for drafting, I find it curious how the last 3 drafts under Pioli were not good.  "but what about Moss and Welker" some will ask.  They used draft picks.  They were a great use of draft picks.  They were not draft picks.  The last two drafts without Pioli have been very good.  Of course, despite the media (Reiss) discounting this, I think Floyd Reese is providing input to BB.  3 of Reese's 11 first round draft choices with the Titans won RoY.   Whatever the case, no denying that our drafts have gotten better since Pioli left.  We had a few bad years before that, and that is the reason we have had to bring in so many free agents.
    Posted by carawaydj[/QUOTE]
    I agree with you because you are stating my point. Moss/Welker came in duriong the Pioli years. The poor drafts or the good drafts...not so much Pioli. You are probably correct on Reese having input as well! Good call out!
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ChasaB. Show ChasaB's posts

    Re: the Pioli factor

    Last time i checked we had a defensive rookie of the year recently, Edleman is turning out to be a pretty good WR, Spikes and Mcourty should be solid picks as well, oh look we have our kicked of the future in gostkoski, and a couple of tightends of the future in hernadez and gronkoski.

    Has every pick been a home run? Of course not, but overall were fine with a solid group of young guns and 2 first round picks next year.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: the Pioli factor

    I think Pioli's job was to negotiate contracts.  The drafts are made by BB and the scouting department.  I'm sure Pioli had input on signing some guys since contract value is a big part of salary cap era football but I don't think he was a big influence.  Moss and Welker were signed during Pioli's era, so was Adalius.  Bodden and Edelman during Reese's era. 

    My guess is the Scouts make their assessments of everybody available.  Director of Scouting gets with the Coaches and presents the best of their assessments.  BB reviews those players for who he likes then gets with director of personnel to see if they can sign the free agents and draft picks under the salary cap.  Recommendations are made, the draft plays out, and of the remaining players not drafted the Pats look at who is available as a free agent, and how the scouts graded them compared to trades and undrafted free agents. 

    Projecting years ahead and writing contracts to stay within a salary cap is a full time job for the director of player personnel.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Evil2010. Show Evil2010's posts

    Re: the Pioli factor

    Is there any point to endlessly whining about Pioli's departure. It's like some southern redneck still complaining about the Civil War. Is done get over it.
     
  9. This post has been removed.

     
  10. This post has been removed.

     
  11. This post has been removed.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from jcour382. Show jcour382's posts

    Re: the Pioli factor

    actually pioli negotiated contracts... and was the head of scouting/pro personell all that shizzy.... he may not have had the final say...but his staff was scouting/buying the groceries...  last two years seem pretty good with new staff in place...
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pancakespwn. Show Pancakespwn's posts

    Re: the Pioli factor

    He 100% had the chance to make calls. Like Floyd Reese, and Caserio do as well when they scout players.

    You dont think if someone was on the board and Bill was unsure about a pick and Pioli wanted to go one way instead of the other Bill wouldnt listen?


     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from southnpatsfan. Show southnpatsfan's posts

    Re: the Pioli factor

    In Response to Re: the Pioli factor:
    [QUOTE]Is there any point to endlessly whining about Pioli's departure. It's like some southern redneck still complaining about the Civil War. Is done get over it.
    Posted by Evil2010[/QUOTE]

    I have to agree, so of sick reading "bring back Pioli", he's gone and Bill does just fine!!!
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: the Pioli factor

    Texans DBs coach David Gibbs says he'll "be surprised" if SS Bernard Pollard "is not a Pro Bowl safety this year."
    He should've been last year. Adrian Wilson-like in his ability to support the run, Pollard ranked eighth among safeties in tackles and was better than ever in coverage. His 2009 release by the Chiefs further proves that Bill Belichick is the Patriots' mastermind, and that Kansas City GM Scott Pioli wasn't.

    This is from Rotoworld, and a website I basically always trust when it comes to their 2 cents. 

    http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=3700


    So forget about whatever you think about BB and Scott... there is a reason BB has always had the final say.  Pioli only served as what Tuna is now doing for the Fins now with just giving advice, but he also worked out the $'s with contract, but BB pulled in who he wanted. 
     
  16. This post has been removed.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ChasaB. Show ChasaB's posts

    Re: the Pioli factor

    if we are talking about personnel men that might have affected our overall team scout dynamic Dimitrioff is the guy we lost that was really key in helping BB in drafts.

    The job he has done with the Falcons is amazing

    Matt ryan, Michael turner, Gonzalaz.

    back to back winning seasons for the first time. all happened because of his skills in the scounting/drafting department.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: the Pioli factor

    In Response to Re: the Pioli factor:
    [QUOTE]Im def. all set with bringing back Pioli, I cant say that I agree about Pollard being a pro bowler though   ...He is a big hitter, other than that, why would you think he is gonna beat out the likes of Polomaulu(sp) Meriweather or Chung for that matter, and a host of over safeties better than this bum in the AFC, how does being 8th in tackles amongst safeties make you elite??  I'm not hating on Pollard cuz he cost us a chance to make the playoffs in 08', but he is nothing special to me...I would rather have Page...oh yeah, we do have em'.....
    Posted by patsfan76[/QUOTE]

    Ok, to compare him to Polo and Meriweather... I dunno, but I was giving an example with concrete evidence (Rotoworld) that will show no bias because they just talk about those that perform for fatansy reason.

    To rather have Page??... c'mon do you even really know anything about Pollard or Page...

    Roto was pretty decisive that's all I am saying. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from oklahomapatriot. Show oklahomapatriot's posts

    Re: the Pioli factor

    In Response to Re: the Pioli factor:
    [QUOTE]And what effective current NFL acquisitions has he done for KC?
    Posted by murghkhor[/QUOTE]

    good point, they haven't done much. the problem they have is the head coach.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: the Pioli factor

    In Response to the Pioli factor:
    [QUOTE]I read all over this board about how poorly the Pats have drafted with and with out Pioli as part of the team. Lets be clear about it. The draft was never Pioli's responsability. The final decision was always BB's.  Where Pioli did excel, and what was a major part of his responsability, was in current NFL player aquisitions. Vrabel, Harrison, Dillon, Poole, Evans, Patten. The names can go on and on. When looking at the players the Pat's did pick up, the common thread was football intelligence. The other piece that Pioli brought to the table was as a counter weight to BB. Lets face it, if BB bounces ideas off of O'Brien, P Johnson, even Mangini and McDaniels when they were on the team. Do you think any of them ever said anything other than "ok Bill"? Pioli was not an "ok Bill" guy. 
    Posted by ronk1[/QUOTE]

    The draft was Pioli's responsibility.  He was the talent/scouting evaluator for the team, FA as well.  What Bill did is address the teams needs or priorities which does mean certain players do get passed on during the draft process.

    To say Belichick doesn't listen to anybody but himself is very narrow.  You have to be receptive to other points of view or you don't stay on top for long.  I mean you crater.  To surround yourself with yes-men is a disaster waiting to happen.   
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: the Pioli factor

    In Response to the Pioli factor:
    [QUOTE]I read all over this board about how poorly the Pats have drafted with and with out Pioli as part of the team. Lets be clear about it. The draft was never Pioli's responsability. The final decision was always BB's.  Where Pioli did excel, and what was a major part of his responsability, was in current NFL player aquisitions. Vrabel, Harrison, Dillon, Poole, Evans, Patten. The names can go on and on. When looking at the players the Pat's did pick up, the common thread was football intelligence. The other piece that Pioli brought to the table was as a counter weight to BB. Lets face it, if BB bounces ideas off of O'Brien, P Johnson, even Mangini and McDaniels when they were on the team. Do you think any of them ever said anything other than "ok Bill"? Pioli was not an "ok Bill" guy. 
    Posted by ronk1[/QUOTE]


    So, BB is responsible for all of the failed draft picks and Pioli is responsible for all  of the successful free agents? Got it. You give a lot of credit to the guy BB hired as one of his assistants in 1992. I am not saying Pioli was not an amazing front office guy but the fact Belichick hired him for his 1st job in the NFL, and his 2nd, and his 3rd tells us that BB probably had a lot to do with ALL personnel decisions. I am pretty sure Belichick is the chicken not the egg.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from tagandtrade. Show tagandtrade's posts

    Re: the Pioli factor

    Pioli has not hit on a player in a while he almost single handedly desimated our talent pool by taking chances on potential players rather than drafting for the greatest value....

    Chad Jackson, Bethel Johnson, Terrance Wheatley, he missed on a lot of low draft chioces...

    if you want to crown him as the best GM in the NFL call him out for his failures as well.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from tagandtrade. Show tagandtrade's posts

    Re: the Pioli factor

    By the way that stud pick Pioli grabbed at # 3 last year is a bust, and picking McCluster looks good now but it won't when his 180 pound frame gets beat up and he is out of the league... Guys like that... Sproles type players do not last as the feature becasue there bodies cannot take the abuse. His picks are week
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: the Pioli factor

    In Response to Re: the Pioli factor:
    [QUOTE]In Response to the Pioli factor : The draft was Pioli's responsibility.  He was the talent/scouting evaluator for the team, FA as well.  What Bill did is address the teams needs or priorities which does mean certain players do get passed on during the draft process. To say Belichick doesn't listen to anybody but himself is very narrow.  You have to be receptive to other points of view or you don't stay on top for long.  I mean you crater.  To surround yourself with yes-men is a disaster waiting to happen.   
    Posted by garytx[/QUOTE]

    Thomas Dimitroff, National Scout 2002. Director of College Scouting 2003-2007, Current GM Atlanta Falcons. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Dimitroff

    "General Manager" is the general overseer of everything (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_manager_%28American_football%29); FA, contracts, drafts, logistics, etc. Obviously there is a fair amount of delegation. Much of the Pats success, and failures, of drafting between 2003-2007 lies squarely on Dimitroff's shoulders. Pioli put him in that position, and yes, Pioli and more-so Belichick had final say, but they were mostly working on the info that Dimi, and his staff, gave them.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: the Pioli factor

    In Response to Re: the Pioli factor:
    [QUOTE]By the way that stud pick Pioli grabbed at # 3 last year is a bust, and picking McCluster looks good now but it won't when his 180 pound frame gets beat up and he is out of the league... Guys like that... Sproles type players do not last as the feature becasue there bodies cannot take the abuse. His picks are week
    Posted by tagandtrade[/QUOTE]
    Tyson Jackson is getting $17 mil this season and is in danger of losing his starting job. Imagine how that would go over if he was picked by NE.
     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share