The proof of interest in Wilson, and reason to CHILL OUT

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    The proof of interest in Wilson, and reason to CHILL OUT

    CREDIT TO NYPat, HE FISHED THIS OUT!

    http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/7865727/tavon-wilson-reach-round-2-not-bill-belichick

    "But others might look closer and learn that Wilson had seven teams that brought him in for visits (Buccaneers, Texans, Cardinals, Falcons, Colts, Ravens, Chargers), while Patriots director of player personnel Nick Caserio and director of college scouting Jon Robinson -- along with another club -- worked him out privately.

    So while draft analysts might have missed the mark on Wilson, it's not like other teams in the league were sleeping on him and the positive traits that made him a desirable prospect. In recent weeks Wilson was a "travel guy" in scouting circles, the player who has a high volume of visits as clubs attempt to gather more information on him before setting their draft board."

    and then...

    "In part because Wilson wasn't at the combine or all-star games, it helped shape the perception that he isn't an elite prospect. It also explained how Wilson could slip under the radar of prominent draft analysts in the media such as Mike Mayock, Todd McShay and Mel Kiper. On Friday, the pick had some of those analysts scrambling for more information on live television.

    All of this registered as news Friday night to the laser-focused Belichick, who looks at the draft through a different prism than most. He doesn't make picks based on perception. Instead, he relies on a thorough scouting process over 365 days a year rather than what feeds the majority of the knee-jerk reaction crowd -- a 365-page scouting book that details each prospect."

     

    31 Teams get that book. Need to guess the ONE that doesn't!

    Your honor, I rest my case.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from nyjoseph. Show nyjoseph's posts

    Re: The proof of interest in Wilson, and reason to CHILL OUT

    See that just makes too much sense.  Conspiracy theorists won't be satisfied. 

    Each of those 7 teams that brought him in for visits did so for the sole purpose of fooling the Pats.  They had no interest in him.  They don't care if they waste time with things like this.  They only care if they can hurt the Pats.  Their own success is immaterial.  They don't care about the other 30 teams in the NFL either.  The only thing that matters is hurting the Pats.  They probably worked on this scheme for weeks leading up to the draft.  They had to make sure that the story of their "interest" would get leaked back to the Pats.  And all 7 teams had to work together on this ruse.  What a beautiful plan. Executed to perfection.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from NYC. Show NYC's posts

    Re: The proof of interest in Wilson, and reason to CHILL OUT

    In Response to The proof of interest in Wilson, and reason to CHILL OUT:
    [QUOTE]CREDIT TO NYPat, HE FISHED THIS OUT! http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/7865727/tavon-wilson-reach-round-2-not-bill-belichick "But others might look closer and learn that Wilson had seven teams that brought him in for visits (Buccaneers, Texans, Cardinals, Falcons, Colts, Ravens, Chargers), while Patriots director of player personnel Nick Caserio and director of college scouting Jon Robinson -- along with another club -- worked him out privately. So while draft analysts might have missed the mark on Wilson, it's not like other teams in the league were sleeping on him and the positive traits that made him a desirable prospect. In recent weeks Wilson was a "travel guy" in scouting circles, the player who has a high volume of visits as clubs attempt to gather more information on him before setting their draft board." and then... "In part because Wilson wasn't at the combine or all-star games, it helped shape the perception that he isn't an elite prospect. It also explained how Wilson could slip under the radar of prominent draft analysts in the media such as Mike Mayock, Todd McShay and Mel Kiper. On Friday, the pick had some of those analysts scrambling for more information on live television. All of this registered as news Friday night to the laser-focused Belichick, who looks at the draft through a different prism than most. He doesn't make picks based on perception. Instead, he relies on a thorough scouting process over 365 days a year rather than what feeds the majority of the knee-jerk reaction crowd -- a 365-page scouting book that details each prospect ."   31 Teams get that book. Need to guess the ONE that doesn't! Your honor, I rest my case.
    Posted by ma6dragon9[/QUOTE]

    Dragon
    Great post! I am glad the Pats don't have a subscription to the "draft guide". Selecting draft picks based purely on numerical values is like trading widgets and this does not work when evaluating human talent. Furthermore, sometimes you have to pay more than full price to get what you want. And even then, there are no gaurantee's. That's the way it is in fields like sports, entertainment and art. Some people have a hard time accepting that but life does not conform to our "rational" demands.

    Will Wilson work out? I have no idea but it is part of the drama of being a Pats fan. And, I would much rather be a Pats fan then a fan of any other franchise. I like and am mystified by the unpredictability of BB but I really love the way he knows how to build players and the team as the season progresses. That is masterful.

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: The proof of interest in Wilson, and reason to CHILL OUT

    I don't get it.  What does a guy who is considered one of the greatest coaches of all time, who has 5 SB rings know?  How dare him take a pick like that.  I mean, seriously, don't the greatest people in their field always think inside the box?  Don't they only know and do what everyone else knows and does?  Don't they always stay on the straight and narrow path and always make the safe picks?  How dare BB go out on a limb here.  How dare BB not use the same scouting reports everyone else uses. 

    Why didn't BB call up Mel Kiper, Jr, Mike Mayock or Todd McShay and ask them if Wilson was any good?  Why didn't he get their blessing on the guy before drafting him?  Clearly they make a living doing draft and player research.  I'm sure they own far greater football awards then SB rings and Lombardi trophies.  Heck I think Kiper is so fantastic he may have his own draft magazine on the stands.  Why don't they Patriots hire guys like this?

    I am about done with this Bill Belichick guy.  Who does he think he is anyway?
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from sfpat. Show sfpat's posts

    Re: The proof of interest in Wilson, and reason to CHILL OUT

    As stated elsewhere, a team visit and $5 will get you a small cup of coffee somewhere.  Just because a team has someone in for a visit is no indication of any interest in that player by that team.  The Pats rarely pick someone whom they had in for a visit (I don't think any of the four picks thus far visited the Pats) and one has to assume that other teams do the same. And yes, teams do "waste" their "precious" 30 visit limit. Visits are for information and disinformation.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoahJustin. Show NoahJustin's posts

    Re: The proof of interest in Wilson, and reason to CHILL OUT

    How dare the Pat's chose Wilson? Don't they even read the NFL Draft guides? Or listen to Kiper and the rest of ESPN? Sure they had Wilson in for a one on one visit and liked what they saw, but to go against popular opinion! Outrageous! I'll stack up my draft guides and Mel against any of the Pat's scouts. Better yet, get rid of the scouts altogether and let the fans select the players based on popular opinion.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: The proof of interest in Wilson, and reason to CHILL OUT

    In Response to The proof of interest in Wilson, and reason to CHILL OUT:
    [QUOTE]CREDIT TO NYPat, HE FISHED THIS OUT! http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/7865727/tavon-wilson-reach-round-2-not-bill-belichick ... All of this registered as news Friday night to the laser-focused Belichick, who looks at the draft through a different prism than most. He doesn't make picks based on perception. Instead, he relies on a thorough scouting process over 365 days a year rather than what feeds the majority of the knee-jerk reaction crowd -- a 365-page scouting book that details each prospect ."   31 Teams get that book. Need to guess the ONE that doesn't! Your honor, I rest my case.
    Posted by ma6dragon9[/QUOTE]

    I am not going to judge the pick. it might turn out to be the d version of the mankins pick.

    that said, i actually do not like the idea that the pats do not study that book. that just confirms they live in their own bubble. it's one thing to make decisions that go against the grain. not trying to understand other people's perspectives is something else.

    it's basic competitive intelligence. he can use that informaton even if only to try to take advantage of the other teams' misperception of the prospects.

    what this looks like to me is the nfl version of what's known in the tech world as not-invented-here syndrome


     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoahJustin. Show NoahJustin's posts

    Re: The proof of interest in Wilson, and reason to CHILL OUT

    If all the picks were out in left field like the Wilson pick, I'd say it was bad drafting. On the other hand, they had Wilson in for a visit and they must have seen alot they liked to choose him in the 2 rd. Based of the fact that we win the division alot and been to a few superbowls, I'll cut BB some slack. If we had selected Brady in the 1st round instead of the 6th, ESPN and the "experts" would have laughted at us. At least give the kid a couple of years before saying it's a wasted draft pick.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: The proof of interest in Wilson, and reason to CHILL OUT

    In Response to Re: The proof of interest in Wilson, and reason to CHILL OUT:
    [QUOTE] I am not going to judge the pick. it might turn out to be the d version of the mankins pick. that said, i actually do not like the idea that the pats do not study that book. that just confirms they live in their own bubble.
    Posted by seattlepat70[/QUOTE]

    Well, either they do look at the book or they make their own book based on what they see and are looking for.  Whatever the case may be, it looks like they have a draft book as seen in the picture below.




     
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: The proof of interest in Wilson, and reason to CHILL OUT

    In Response to Re: The proof of interest in Wilson, and reason to CHILL OUT:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The proof of interest in Wilson, and reason to CHILL OUT : Well, either they do look at the book or they make their own book based on what they see and are looking for.  Whatever the case may be, it looks like they have a draft book as seen in the picture below.  
    Posted by TFB12[/QUOTE]


    of course they do.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: The proof of interest in Wilson, and reason to CHILL OUT

    Yes, 7 teams brought him in for a look, does that say where they had him valued? I must have missed that part of the article. BB also brought in kids that went as UDFA's in years past along with many other teams. A player working out for teams is in no way indicative of a players value.

    BTW most teams have scouts working yea round looking at prospects. That's why they have huge scouting teams and don't rely on a book put out by the NFL

    I don't think most people question Wilson because we need a S I think they are questioning where he was picked. If for instance Wilson was picked in the 5th I don't think most people would care and might even consider him a sleeper prospect. Lets face it when it comes to BB and DB's taken in the 2nd round he hasn't been very good. Chung being the only hit so far (not including Ras because it's to soon to tell what he'll become). See a S that many considered a late day 3 pick taken in the mid 2nd by a team known for bad DB picks in the 2nd isn't a great sign. So unless you can find a single article suggesting that this kid could be an effective starter then the opinion will be, did we need to take him that early? 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: The proof of interest in Wilson, and reason to CHILL OUT

    Well, they have had some hits and misses this way for sure. 

    I mean, most people thought of Vollmer as a mid to late round guy and he has worked out well. 

    People also thought of Wheatley as a reach ... and he was in the long run. 

    Then, NE has also hit and missed on Butler and Brace (so far) and they were dead-red 2nd rounders on most boards. 

    The draft is a really inexact science. 

    I don't know much about this kid ... I didn't look for him when I watched the Illini, and didn't read anything about him in the pre-draft. 

    He looks like his size fits ... sadly, there are a ton of images online of this kid getting toasted ....

    from that perspective, he is a match with NE's current defensive backfield. LOL. 

    At any given rate ... outside of an odd joke to lighten it up, I don't really see the point in hand-wringing about the selection. NE, BB, their coterie of scouts, and Floyd, etc, saw something in this kid that said they should move on him before he gets snatched up. 

    In that case, I look at him with the exact same expectations that I would smeone who was on Kipers or McShay's board there ... because in the end, I find it hard to believe BB knows less than Kiper and McShay about picking prospects. 

    He is a second round selection ... I have second round hopes for him. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: The proof of interest in Wilson, and reason to CHILL OUT

    In Response to Re: The proof of interest in Wilson, and reason to CHILL OUT:
    [QUOTE]In Response to The proof of interest in Wilson, and reason to CHILL OUT : I am not going to judge the pick. it might turn out to be the d version of the mankins pick. that said, i actually do not like the idea that the pats do not study that book. that just confirms they live in their own bubble. it's one thing to make decisions that go against the grain. not trying to understand other people's perspectives is something else. it's basic competitive intelligence. he can use that informaton even if only to try to take advantage of the other teams' misperception of the prospects. what this looks like to me is the nfl version of what's known in the tech world as not-invented-here syndrome
    Posted by seattlepat70[/QUOTE]

    I don't agree with this, follow me for a moment:

    Some teams, like the Falcons, have every coach, scout, PR person, some investors and their friends, and still other people in the War Room. Belichick allows about 4 or 5 (2 Krafts, Rosario, maybe another high level assistant or 2) and brings in specific scouts on an as needed basis. Why? Sometimes too much information can confuse things, it's not always a good thing to have 10 voices, and many pieces of print. He hires the people to do a job, then expects them to do it. That draft book is streamlined, and like anything trying to be appealing to the masses, it is mainstream. BB, on the other hand...I think maybe they get this week off, or so, then they will start preparing for the 2013 draft. They will start with, probably a list of 200-300 players to go back and look at (who will likely be draft eligible), and keep an eye on as the college season starts, and add and remove people as neccessary. This was referenced in detail in Holley's Book, Patriot Reign (if you haven't read this, anyone, it's a MUST read for a Pats fan). The Pats spend, probably millions of dollars on THEIR OWN research leading up to a draft. At that point, you trust what you believe in, BB hires people he believes in, why trust in something done for everyone?

    BB's people look at players, all year long, and evaluate them in a sense that makes it relevent to the Patriots, not just 'in general'.

    Ever heard the old "ten different scouts will come up with ten different opinons"? It's true in every sport. Again, he trusts the people he keeps on the payroll, and to think he surrounds himself with "yes" men, as someone wrote in another thread, is foolish. Again, go and read Patriot Reign. He WANTS people to challenge him, just be ready for a debate, because he doesn't accept anything simply because someone says it; they better have the research, stats, and film to prove it.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: The proof of interest in Wilson, and reason to CHILL OUT

    Bill Belichicks own words in "War Room" by Michael Holley....amd I'm paraphrasing here but ( If we have a guy on our board that we want, and we think another team is gonna grab him, then we don't mind taking him earlier then we might have been able to get away with. Why gamble that he will be there if thats the guy you think best helps your team?)
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: The proof of interest in Wilson, and reason to CHILL OUT

    In Response to Re: The proof of interest in Wilson, and reason to CHILL OUT:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The proof of interest in Wilson, and reason to CHILL OUT : I don't agree with this, follow me for a moment: Some teams, like the Falcons, have every coach, scout, PR person, some investors and their friends, and still other people in the War Room. Belichick allows about 4 or 5 (2 Krafts, Rosario, maybe another high level assistant or 2) and brings in specific scouts on an as needed basis. Why? Sometimes too much information can confuse things, it's not always a good thing to have 10 voices, and many pieces of print. He hires the people to do a job, then expects them to do it. That draft book is streamlined, and like anything trying to be appealing to the masses, it is mainstream. BB, on the other hand...I think maybe they get this week off, or so, then they will start preparing for the 2013 draft. They will start with, probably a list of 200-300 players to go back and look at (who will likely be draft eligible), and keep an eye on as the college season starts, and add and remove people as neccessary. This was referenced in detail in Holley's Book, Patriot Reign (if you haven't read this, anyone, it's a MUST read for a Pats fan). The Pats spend, probably millions of dollars on THEIR OWN research leading up to a draft. At that point, you trust what you believe in, BB hires people he believes in, why trust in something done for everyone? BB's people look at players, all year long, and evaluate them in a sense that makes it relevent to the Patriots, not just 'in general'. Ever heard the old "ten different scouts will come up with ten different opinons"? It's true in every sport. Again, he trusts the people he keeps on the payroll, and to think he surrounds himself with "yes" men, as someone wrote in another thread, is foolish. Again, go and read Patriot Reign. He WANTS people to challenge him, just be ready for a debate, because he doesn't accept anything simply because someone says it; they better have the research, stats, and film to prove it.
    Posted by ma6dragon9[/QUOTE]

    their own due dilligence is the only thing they should rely on to pick their players.

    others' documented perspective could be used to deintify where they disgaree with the rest of the league and use that to get the kids they want plus picks.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: The proof of interest in Wilson, and reason to CHILL OUT

    In Response to Re: The proof of interest in Wilson, and reason to CHILL OUT:
    [QUOTE]Bill Belichicks own words in "War Room" by Michael Holley....amd I'm paraphrasing here but ( If we have a guy on our board that we want, and we think another team is gonna grab him, then we don't mind taking him earlier then we might have been able to get away with. Why gamble that he will be there if thats the guy you think best helps your team? )
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    this truly makes sense. i think people are wanting to understand why they think this kid was going to be taken by someone else that early.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from hulk. Show hulk's posts

    Re: The proof of interest in Wilson, and reason to CHILL OUT

    I was at work listening to this transaction on the NFL channel on Sirius.  At first I was a bit panicked at their reaction to this pick, but then I sat there and realized that these guys feed off each other and really have about as much knowledge as a serious fan does.  The information on college players is easily available to fans.  They actually said that the Patriots way over shot on this guy.  I bring this up, because I was listening to these idiots back when the Patriots drafted Maroney in the first and then Chad Jackson in the second.  They stated that Jackson WILL BE a future all-pro and the WR for Brady for the next 10 years.  

    What I'm trying to say is I agree with everyone here that we can express an opinion, but until he gets out there on Sundays, we just don't know.  None of us attended his workouts.  I want these guys to just tell me the facts about this guy. I just hate the fact that these guys act like they are running the board and their input matters.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: The proof of interest in Wilson, and reason to CHILL OUT

    In Response to Re: The proof of interest in Wilson, and reason to CHILL OUT:
    [QUOTE]I.... I sat there and realized that these guys feed off each other and really have about as much knowledge as a serious fan does.  ...
    Posted by hulk[/QUOTE]


    this is so true. notice how different mock drafts look all the same with the exception of one or two players?

    they read each other's evaluation, assuming the other guy actually watched every kid. then the origin of the infomration sees another guy write something that grees with him and he feels validated, not knowing that the second guy was basing the second guy's evaluation on the first guy's original content. so there is a reinforcing cycle.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: The proof of interest in Wilson, and reason to CHILL OUT

    In Response to Re: The proof of interest in Wilson, and reason to CHILL OUT:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The proof of interest in Wilson, and reason to CHILL OUT : this truly makes sense. i think people are wanting to understand why they think this kid was going to be taken by someone else that early.
    Posted by seattlepat70[/QUOTE]

    Well Mayock said as soon as he was taken this was a shocker BUT this kid has stock has soared. Then we here Reiss talk about how many teams brought htis kid in for a visit recently. I mean after Barron and Smith how would anybody know the difference in skill sets from Iloka/Allen or Tevon Wilson? Belichick knows because he has been scouting these kids for ever. Apparently 7 other teams knew about hima s well even though he wasn't even invited to the combine.

    And when all else fails we can figure that since BB did take him that high he thought somebody had him on the radar...its not like he is gun shy about moving down!!!
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: The proof of interest in Wilson, and reason to CHILL OUT

    In Response to Re: The proof of interest in Wilson, and reason to CHILL OUT:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The proof of interest in Wilson, and reason to CHILL OUT : ...its not like he is gun shy about moving down!!!
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]


    really? now why should we think that?

    as i said in one of my posts. my heart said "what?"; my mind says "trust bill"
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: The proof of interest in Wilson, and reason to CHILL OUT

    This video may explain the pick . . . since Harrison left, we've lacked a real leader in the secondary who can make sure everyone is doing the right thing.  Given the Pats' complex schemes good communication in the backfield is essential.  Is Wilson the leader the Pats have lacked since Harrison left?  Who knows .  .  .  he may be another bust . . . but he does seem to be a hard hitter and, more importantly, a player coaches rely on to lead other players on the field:


    I also think BB will be using a lot of 5 or 6 DB packages next year and if Wilson can combine decent coverage skills with good tackling in run support he may turn out to be a valuable player on this team. 

    I have a funny feeling this kid is going to be a fan favorite sometime not too long in the future. From the little I've seen, I like his attitude and I think he plays smart and hard.  That's something that would really help our secondary. 
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: The proof of interest in Wilson, and reason to CHILL OUT

    ^Yeah the safety position is important to BB's defense(lot of the reason our secondary suffered last year) I like getting a kid that was a 3 year starter who played in every game in a tough program. Smart kid with good speed and good shuttle times.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from tanbass. Show tanbass's posts

    Re: The proof of interest in Wilson, and reason to CHILL OUT

    In Response to Re: The proof of interest in Wilson, and reason to CHILL OUT:
    [QUOTE] i actually do not like the idea that the pats do not study that book. that just confirms they live in their own bubble. it's one thing to make decisions that go against the grain. not trying to understand other people's perspectives is something else. it's basic competitive intelligence.Posted by seattlepat70[/QUOTE]

    Ummm...so what they've been doing for the last dozen years doesn't work? We are pretty much the most successful team in the NFL this past decade, and people question how the draft their player? Really? Perhaps we should take lessons from the power house teams like the Lions or Browns? I'm okay with how they make their choices....
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: The proof of interest in Wilson, and reason to CHILL OUT

    In Response to Re: The proof of interest in Wilson, and reason to CHILL OUT:
    [QUOTE]This video may explain the pick . . . since Harrison left, we've lacked a real leader in the secondary who can make sure everyone is doing the right thing.  Given the Pats' complex schemes good communication in the backfield is essential.  Is Wilson the leader the Pats have lacked since Harrison left?  Who knows .  .  .  he may be another bust . . . but he does seem to be a hard hitter and, more importantly, a player coaches rely on to lead other players on the field: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdbcrsmTNCo I also think BB will be using a lot of 5 or 6 DB packages next year and if Wilson can combine decent coverage skills with good tackling in run support he may turn out to be a valuable player on this team.  I have a funny feeling this kid is going to be a fan favorite sometime not too long in the future. From the little I've seen, I like his attitude and I think he plays smart and hard.  That's something that would really help our secondary. 
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

    bb is looking for a leader on the field the best explanation.
     
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