The Real Reasons We Lost

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from akius. Show akius's posts

    Re: The Real Reasons We Lost

    its surprising how many people see the game just like I did, glad to find out that everybody on this board is not a homer.

    1 check
    3 Check
    4 Check and its on TB for not developing Brandon Tate, he was the only one who could've stormed past their secondary which was always creeping up.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: The Real Reasons We Lost

    You cite "real reasons."
    Ok.
    1. Team scores TD to cut it to 14-11, momentum is swinging.
      Defense responds by letting Jets score 4 plays later? Then what do the Pats
    do. I'm yelling at the TV, you start running the football and put yourself into a 3rd and 5, you're dead. So naturally, they run Woodhead two times in a row, the second the fumble. The game was over right there. That was the signal the game was over, the Pats were throwing up a white flag.

    All year long, the Pats were successful because (like 2007), they were arrogant and explosive on offense. I don't doubt the Jets great play on defense, and I agree wholeheartedly, maybe they were just completely outplaying the Pats. But the use of the running game by the Pats in this game was frankly a waste of time. Brady easily could have gone to slants, Welker could have been utilized, Edelman utilized. And I guess Aaron Hernandez goes from terrific breakout TE to non-existent (injury? don't know). You don't have to have a deep threat if you can sling it to a set of receivers who have played well all year.

    Just like v. the NY Giants in the 2008 SB, the team faced a mighty pass rush. You'd think, Bellichick and Brady would by now understand how to answer to blitzes. Answering blitzes by running the ball up the middle to Danny Woodhead is not the answer. It's eating clock when you are down 10, it's as if the Jets were calling the plays, not the Pats' OC, who was terrible all game.

    Sometimes, the over-coaching and let's completely change the game plan techniques are mystifying.

    2. The bye killed the team. Say what you want about the playoff format, but it seems it's a lot better to be a wild card or play in that 1st round. You are playoff ready for sure by the semifinals. Jets were game-ready, Pats were sluggish and not ready.

    3. Pats are a great regular season team, and one of the greatest regular season teams in NFL history, certainly from 2001-2010. They have become a not-great playoff team. A team that has shown to be terrible (Ravens last year) and under-achievers (yesterday) and that's at the home stadium. Don't know why the team doesn't come to play in the playoffs, but I feel Belichick's strict rules of conduct, while noble and not to expect locker-room material, should be disbanded. A trash-talking team took pot shots at them, only Welker sort of responded jokingly as well. So who cares what anyone says the week of the game. I used to remember Ty Law spitting out stupid comments and a few others when the Pats WERE WINNING SUPER BOWLS.

    The Pats want their play to do the talking, I get it. Bellichick does run up the score, does pass the hell out of the ball when the team is up by 30 points. No one questions that conduct then, huh? Well, it got the Jets motivated, that's for sure. Who was more of a hinderance this week? Welker for being funny in an interview room, or Bellichick for giving the Jets all the lockeroom material it needed from embarrassing them in NE during reg. season night game?

    You can't have it both ways, Bill. You can't tell your players to shut up and stay constrained and show no emotion (Brady seems to be the only one getting animated on the sideline) off the field, but display the opposite on the field. When they are blowing teams out, and bombing the ball up by 30 points. Be consistent. Either show the respective conduct on and off the field, or not. Don't use one on and off. Jets are consistent, that's for sure. Arrogant on and off the field. It's a motivation tool and it works well.

    Pats lacked a Randy Moss type when it needed it this game. Not saying it mattered, but Branch missed two catches that had to be made. Moss though wasn't even a Randy Moss type, however, this year before and after trade.

    Ok, real reasons we lost? Well, Pats offensive game plan was putrid. I think it ran the ball way, way too much. Too deliberate when it should have been running no huddles. And one of the dumbest fake punt calls in NFL history. The timing WAS NOT RIGHT...the Pats notebook writer blew that statement...Fake punts are worked best when you are ahead, not behind. It's an act of desperation. The Pats look defeated in the 1st half, played defeated after the one TD drive for 8 points. The Jets dominated defensively, and took advantage of some defensive breakdowns, although the Pats defense (save for that one bad series) played well enough to keep the team in the game.




     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: The Real Reasons We Lost

    Not that it mattered, but Sammy Morris couldn't have been used a little more there too? If you are going to run the ball, then run to a guy who might knock over a few guys in the process. Woodhead, I love the kid, but he was going nowhere and so was Ben-Jarvus (one good run). Just a thought.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from akius. Show akius's posts

    Re: The Real Reasons We Lost

    In Response to Re: The Real Reasons We Lost:
    [QUOTE]Not that it mattered, but Sammy Morris couldn't have been used a little more there too? If you are going to run the ball, then run to a guy who might knock over a few guys in the process. Woodhead, I love the kid, but he was going nowhere and so was Ben-Jarvus (one good run). Just a thought.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    I didn't expect much neither did TB. We knew we had to beat their secondary. Period and in my opinion the only person who had the speed not necessarily the hands was Tate. 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from akius. Show akius's posts

    Re: The Real Reasons We Lost

    In Response to Re: The Real Reasons We Lost:
    [QUOTE]You cite "real reasons." Ok. 1. Team scores TD to cut it to 14-11, momentum is swinging.   Defense responds by letting Jets score 4 plays later?,.......... The Jets dominated defensively, and took advantage of some defensive breakdowns, although the Pats defense (save for that one bad series) played well enough to keep the team in the game.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

     

    I agree with you bro we are really good at blowing up teams but not to much going toe to toe with them. There was no BB post season special surprise.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: The Real Reasons We Lost

    Sounds right to me

    But to me we lost it because of the INT
    and the Fake Punt

    Questions for you?

    1) One of the reasons i liked the 2/3 TE offense was because
    we get the extra blocking

      I did not see too many delayed passes to TE or Woodhead

    2)  Was looking at the Stat Sheet
         Except for the TO's (Int and fake punt)
             a) we were even in Stats
             b) our starting point was much worse than the Jests
          
             Did you get that "feeling that during the game?

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: The Real Reasons We Lost

    In Response to Re: The Real Reasons We Lost:
    [QUOTE]Not that it mattered, but Sammy Morris couldn't have been used a little more there too? If you are going to run the ball, then run to a guy who might knock over a few guys in the process. Woodhead, I love the kid, but he was going nowhere and so was Ben-Jarvus (one good run). Just a thought.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    Danny, this is sort of my point.  The Pats offense has looked bad all year when it relies too heavily on spread/shotgun formations. That makes them pass heavy and it means they rely on the third down back for the ground game.  They looked best once they started using BJGE in the game plans more.  They got away from that in the game yesterday and went back (at least in the first half) to spread, spread, spread.  That allows the defense to play back and not worry so much about the LOS.  The Jets defenders can tackle in space.  We needed to engage them more, force them to fight off blocks. Force them to attack the LOS  That just doesn't happen in the spread offense.  It only comes from a real power running game.



     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: The Real Reasons We Lost

    prolate, i agree to an extent. Woodhead is a crafty, small runner, Jarvis is a runner effective with good blocking, but neither are a smashmouth guy. Don't know if would have mattered, but when I saw Morris dive on the 2-point conversion play, I kept thinking this guy is sitting on the sideline? He can also catch the ball, Morris, out of the backfield. Brady tried to throw to Woodhead a few times, but he was not expecting it or ran the wrong route. Brady yelled at him. Few double-tight end formations, very, very good point.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: The Real Reasons We Lost

    In Response to Re: The Real Reasons We Lost:
    [QUOTE]Sounds right to me But to me we lost it because of the INT and the Fake Punt Questions for you? 1) One of the reasons i liked the 2/3 TE offense was because we get the extra blocking   I did not see too many delayed passes to TE or Woodhead 2)  Was looking at the Stat Sheet      Except for the TO's (Int and fake punt)          a) we were even in Stats          b) our starting point was much worse than the Jests                 Did you get that "feeling that during the game?
    Posted by seawolfxs[/QUOTE]

    Yep . . . it seemed to me that the Jets were much more effective returning punts and kick offs than we were.  I haven't looked back at the stats, but from memory, it seemed like they were starting near the 40 yard line an awful lot. 

    Overall, I felt that our offense was always struggling to get first downs.  I didn't feel the Jets offense was all that much better.  But if we can't move the ball and score, we're not going to beat the Jets in a defensive struggle.  Let's face it, their defense is better.  

    Going into this game, I really thought the Pats needed to jump out to a big lead and force the Jets to chase them.  All year, the Jets have won when they've kept games low scoring and close.  I didn't feel great when in the first half that's what the game was.  It felt like a Jets game, not a Pats game.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from akius. Show akius's posts

    Re: The Real Reasons We Lost

    In Response to Re: The Real Reasons We Lost:
    [QUOTE]Sounds right to me But to me we lost it because of the INT and the Fake Punt Questions for you? 1) One of the reasons i liked the 2/3 TE offense was because we get the extra blocking   I did not see too many delayed passes to TE or Woodhead 2)  Was looking at the Stat Sheet      Except for the TO's (Int and fake punt)          a) we were even in Stats          b) our starting point was much worse than the Jests                 Did you get that "feeling that during the game?

    Posted by seawolfxs[/QUOTE]

    TB loves woodhead and welker the Jets knew this every time they got the ball both of em got poped their strategy was to take both these guys out, as to why Gronk wasn't used more (well everybody the safeties and all were like in the box) The jests D played like they played colts offense without having to worry about the deep threat. This is why even if it was futile we had to use tate, I totally believe he could've gotten the best of cromartie.

     

    This really wasn't a battle of field position it was all about big play, Jets made more big plays than us. That's all again that why we need Tate of Hernandez.  

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: The Real Reasons We Lost

    And this is something that bothers me too. You ever get the impression that Brady didn't know who to throw to because every game they seemed to go to almost too many receivers. Welker stopped being used latter part of the year as a go-to guy (drops??). Tate and Edelman were barely used during the entire winning streak after being used early on in the year. Then, there they are again in the playoffs?? Hernandez nowhere to be found, so injury had to be the reason or stupidity, since he's the fastest receiver they have. Gronkowski was Brady's favorite receiver over the last 10 games, sort of like Bledsoe to Coates. But Bledsoe kept going to Coates, and Gronkowski either was being double-covered or Brady just really didn't know what to do.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: The Real Reasons We Lost

    In Response to Re: The Real Reasons We Lost:
    [QUOTE]prolate, i agree to an extent. Woodhead is a crafty, small runner, Jarvis is a runner effective with good blocking, but neither are a smashmouth guy. Don't know if would have mattered, but when I saw Morris dive on the 2-point conversion play, I kept thinking this guy is sitting on the sideline? He can also catch the ball, Morris, out of the backfield. Brady tried to throw to Woodhead a few times, but he was not expecting it or ran the wrong route. Brady yelled at him. Few double-tight end formations, very, very good point.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    I wonder if Morris can do it for the whole game any more.  He's on special teams most of the time, but you wonder if he can still run the ball on a regular basis. I think they needed to at least try a more smashmouth running game early on.  I recognize that's a bit contrary to my other comment--that the Pats needed to get out to a big lead--but this season, their passing game seems to get way more effective (and explosive) when they're mixing it up with hard running.  So it's not that they should have abandoned the pass--just mixed things up so they weren't so one dimensional.



     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: The Real Reasons We Lost

    Jets are all about Cromartie, Ellis, Revis, and Holmes. Those guys are speed guys. Speed kills. Pats don't have that speed on defense or offense. Wilfork maybe the team's quickest player and he's nearly 400 pounds. So go out and get speed guys. Tate has to develop, so does Hernandez, but Pats obviously need to draft a potential deep-threat receiver and acquire a few speedy linebackers or two on defense. Speed was a major factor in this game.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from tidehasturned. Show tidehasturned's posts

    Re: The Real Reasons We Lost

    Also Edwards and Greene ran over the patsies like a bunch of little girl scouts.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from akius. Show akius's posts

    Re: The Real Reasons We Lost

    In Response to Re: The Real Reasons We Lost:
    [QUOTE]And this is something that bothers me too. You ever get the impression that Brady didn't know who to throw to because every game they seemed to go to almost too many receivers. Welker stopped being used latter part of the year as a go-to guy (drops??). Tate and Edelman were barely used during the entire winning streak after being used early on in the year. Then, there they are again in the playoffs?? Hernandez nowhere to be found, so injury had to be the reason or stupidity, since he's the fastest receiver they have. Gronkowski was Brady's favorite receiver over the last 10 games, sort of like Bledsoe to Coates. But Bledsoe kept going to Coates, and Gronkowski either was being double-covered or Brady just really didn't know what to do.

    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    I have this theory that if a team has more than an optimal no of receivers, each receiver that you add on to the roster will have a negative effect on pass offense. 

    But I don't think that was the problem here was, they have lot of slot receivers - Welker, Eldmen, Woodhead. Possession receivers are plenty too, Big TE are there too what they didn't have was quick fast outside receivers aka Randy Moss type (I'm not saying get Randy) Patriots were forced to play the middle of the field and guess where Jets were.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hammah29r2. Show Hammah29r2's posts

    Re: The Real Reasons We Lost

    all excellent posts boys! crump dropping the ball in the endzone sure as he!! didn't help.
    I was at the game and yesterday did hurt alot. however, that said, I am still 100% behind my team and we will be back next year.

    and since I hate both teams playing for the afc title next week, I'm gonna root for the Packers. screw em!
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from akius. Show akius's posts

    Re: The Real Reasons We Lost

    In Response to Re: The Real Reasons We Lost:
    [QUOTE]all excellent posts boys! crump dropping the ball in the endzone sure as he!! didn't help. I was at the game and yesterday did hurt alot. however, that said, I am still 100% behind my team and we will be back next year. and since I hate both teams playing for the afc title next week, I'm gonna root for the Packers. screw em!

    Posted by Hammah29r2[/QUOTE]

    See you next year bra.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: The Real Reasons We Lost

    In Response to Re: The Real Reasons We Lost:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Real Reasons We Lost : I have this theory that if a team has more than an optimal no of receivers, each receiver that you add on to the roster will have a negative effect on pass offense.  But I don't think that was the problem here was, they have lot of slot receivers - Welker, Eldmen, Woodhead. Possession receivers are plenty too, Big TE are there too what they didn't have was quick fast outside receivers aka Randy Moss type (I'm not saying get Randy) Patriots were forced to play the middle of the field and guess where Jets were.
    Posted by akius[/QUOTE]

    Everybody is good in short-to-intermediate routes.  Take away the running game and the deep threat, and the Jets D needed to focus on a relatively narrow strip of the field just downfield from the LOS. You put eight guys in coverage in that narrow area and you can shut down a lot. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: The Real Reasons We Lost


    Well if they didn't have the double te offense then
      i really think we blew it badly

    maybe hernadez's hip was still bothering him
    and why Crumpler was more of a target

    I heard that the Jets had strated on their 45 average
     (with most of the scoring when on our side of the field)


    This may sound crazy but our D wasn't that bad
       Jets were in short fields all day long
    Average return for punts and Ko's were equal i believe

    Our D did stop their Offense after the INT

    In the Playoffs you have to win close games
    no make no mistakes - we did

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: The Real Reasons We Lost

    In Response to Re: The Real Reasons We Lost:
    [QUOTE]all excellent posts boys! crump dropping the ball in the endzone sure as he!! didn't help. I was at the game and yesterday did hurt alot. however, that said, I am still 100% behind my team and we will be back next year. and since I hate both teams playing for the afc title next week, I'm gonna root for the Packers. screw em!
    Posted by Hammah29r2[/QUOTE]

    Did he drop it or did it get knocked out?  From where I was sitting (20 rows back in the third deck) it looked like the defender hit his arm as he was trying to make the catch.  But I was way back and may have not seen it clearly.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from markrahobeth. Show markrahobeth's posts

    Re: The Real Reasons We Lost

    Jets game plan-play mistake free football, use a grind it out on offense, play tough D and stare the opponent in the eye and hope they blink.

    The Pats blinked.

    End of season
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: The Real Reasons We Lost

    In some respects, I now view the Pats like I view the Bruins. It's all about the playoffs for both teams. Both can have a great regular season or even a good-enough regular season, but can come out flat in postseason. It's disappointing. Of course, you enjoy regular season games, the routs, the big comebacks, etc...but you always get back to the goal...the Cup or the SB Trophy. You want to at least be close enough to grab it. Make it to the semifinals or championship game. It's a sour taste to be eliminated prior to that. B's certainly are the sad-sack franchise (no cup since 72), but Pats have gone now a long time for a dynasty to not win a SB. It's been too long and I'm afraid we may never see another one unless they figure out how to defend blitzing and six-DB defenses. Always seems to be the team's achilles heel is facing teams with a speedy, Brady-rattling defense.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: The Real Reasons We Lost

    Still, give credit to the Pats defense yesterday. They did play well enough to win, not that the Jets were a great offensive team, or anything close to that.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from adam4522. Show adam4522's posts

    Re: The Real Reasons We Lost

    95% of the reason we lost was the offense.  I would expect the jets to score close to what they did, excluding the pick 6.  95% of the reason the offense was ineffective was due to the OL not being able to stop the rush despite only 3 and 4 coming.  With our use of the TE's and short game, the OL should have given brady all day to pass.  Our recievers are plenty good as they are if Brady has the time.  We lost that game because the Jets secondary played great, and our OL did not.  We better draft 2 OL AND resign mankins.  Mankins, new OG, Koppen, Volmer new OT is the goal.  Connelly, Light, etc are depth only....
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: The Real Reasons We Lost

    I don't think the Jets pass rush was that big of a factor.  I expected it to be way more of a factor than it was.  The Jets didn't blitz a lot and frequently rushed just three (sending eight into coverage).  When Brady was pressured it was mostly because he had to hold the ball way too long because no one was open.  The pressure came because of the coverage more than the rush.  I don't think you can blame the O-line. 

    And the sack on the corner blitz wasn't really the line's fault, I don't think.  The jets shifted the formation, pulling Woodhead from the left side to the right, then blitzed the corner from the left.  That was a good call.  The sack could have been prevented only if Brady read it right, which he didn't.
     
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