The rebuilding of the Pat's will continue for 2 more yrs. AND....Brady WILL WIN At least 2 more S.B 's

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    The rebuilding of the Pat's will continue for 2 more yrs. AND....Brady WILL WIN At least 2 more S.B 's

     Everybody here is missing the point. The Pat's are rebuilding. It started 2 yrs ago, and will continue for 2 more yrs. Willfork will be tagged and traded ( 1st this yr and a 3rd next, or vice versa ), Light will be traded, bodden is gonzo. The only fa they will sign is Mankins. Tully is gone also. They will keep Burgess (he did fine last yr holding the edge and will be even better next yr with a yr under his belt stading up). There will be no Dansby or Peppers signings, only one yr short $ type guys ( Taylor ?) until after these next 2 drafts. Then, and only then, will they trade picks and sign fa to make one last run for Bady And BB Last 4 yr run. Like they did with the Moss/Welker deals to get another ring for the Bruschi/Rodney/vrabel/Seymor group. So relax everybody, and enjoy the next 10 yrs of High quality Patriot football that BB has always promised us. We're in good hand

             In Bill we trust
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: The rebuilding of the Pat's will continue for 2 more yrs. AND....Brady WILL WIN At least 2 more S.B 's

    Sorry for the typo's. It's early and I'm rushing to get out the door...lol
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: The rebuilding of the Pat's will continue for 2 more yrs. AND....Brady WILL WIN At least 2 more S.B 's

    Tagging and trading Wilfork makes no sense.  A team will want a contract in this situation.  You don't trade for a player and risk having him leave you.   I don't believe Light has any trade value.  I feel Bodden needs to be signed.  He's the best CB we've had in a while.  I agree with the Dansby and Peppers signings.  This is a terrible idea. 

    We have to hit on the draft.  This is a must to turn this thing around.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from dafoe. Show dafoe's posts

    Re: The rebuilding of the Pat's will continue for 2 more yrs. AND....Brady WILL WIN At least 2 more S.B 's

    Outside of cutting Brady, letting Bodden go would be the worst move this team could possibly make. We can't defend the pass whatsoever and you want to get rid of our best CB? Who is still fairly young.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: The rebuilding of the Pat's will continue for 2 more yrs. AND....Brady WILL WIN At least 2 more S.B 's

    They have to tagg him so other teams can talk contract with him ( Vince ). Bodden  will want and get too much $ on the open market, and though he is a very solid # 2 cornerback, he isn't a shutdown guy. I see them drafting an og, cb, olb, and a de with their first 4 picks, in no particular order. They'll sign a vet cb, wr, and de (Taylor ) and patch things up ad see who develops. I would love it if they could get a top 15 pick this draft ( for vw) and grab McClain from Ala. Him, Mayo, Merriweater, Butler, Chung, Brace, Pryor, Whillite, Guyton, along with the 3 picks they'll bring in ( also Crable and MacKenzie ) would give the D a nice young core to build on
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from dafoe. Show dafoe's posts

    Re: The rebuilding of the Pat's will continue for 2 more yrs. AND....Brady WILL WIN At least 2 more S.B 's

    I think in the grand scheme of things it's important that you don't reach on guys. But every once in a while you do have to overpay someone a little. I think Bodden is one of those guys. It's not like he's going to be looking for Champ Bailey money.

    And they can't keep throwing JAGs out there at the CB position. At some point, enough is enough. Bodden is a good young COVER corner. They absolutely have to keep him. Butler will be good in a couple of years. We need to start building the secondary instead of tearing it to shreds every year. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: The rebuilding of the Pat's will continue for 2 more yrs. AND....Brady WILL WIN At least 2 more S.B 's

    dafoe. I agree with that. I like Bodden, alot. They wont break the bank or over spend for him though. They will continue the rebuilding with draft picks and cheap fa ( just like he was last yr ). I do hope they sign him though and he is a big part in their next super bowl run. It would also free up one of those 4 picks for for another need ( te? )
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: The rebuilding of the Pat's will continue for 2 more yrs. AND....Brady WILL WIN At least 2 more S.B 's

    I think the Bodden contract is going to be as difficult as the VW one.  The Pats got the most out of him because he was playing for this contract.  He is going to get some really good offers in the open market.  I think he'll take less money to stay with NE but won't be a bid discount.

    He was a solid CB without consistent pressure, I'll like to see what he can do (INTs) if opposing QBs are hurried and made to throw the ball early because of a good pass rush, but I don't think we'll get the chance to see it.  Bodden will be sign elsewhere.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: The rebuilding of the Pat's will continue for 2 more yrs. AND....Brady WILL WIN At least 2 more S.B 's

    I agree wholeheartedly pats7393. Which is why I don't see him on the team next yr. What are your thoughts on the value of vw once they tag him and allow anouther team to work out a contract? Can they get a 1st this and a 3rd next? Also Light, A 3rd or 4th next? Boy, With last yrs, this yrs, and next yrs group of high picks, if they play their cards right they are setting themselves for a nice Cowboys of the 90's type run when they got all those picks for Herscel walker and others.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: The rebuilding of the Pat's will continue for 2 more yrs. AND....Brady WILL WIN At least 2 more S.B 's

    While I think they can continue to be a top tier team, some changes are needed to do so.  I think the problems with this team are 4 fold:


    1.  The 2006-2008 drafts were aweful, they need to do a better job of identifying, drafting and developing talent.  2009 appears to be a step in the right direction.

    2.  They need to do a better job of identifying and acquiring talent/character in FA. 


    3.  They need to do a better job of back filling the coaching and personnel talent that has left.  Specifically an upgrade in talent to the coaching staff is severly needed, the hiring of an experienced guy like Corwin Brown is a good step in the right direction. 

    And finally, the one that should make me a ton of new friends amongst fellow Pat's fans........
     
    4.  Get back to a blue collar culture and stay away from prima donna types.  Say what you will about Randy Moss and his production, this isn't fantasy football and IMO he does more harm than good to this team.  His talent, skills and production are elite, blah blah blah, save your breath, I know, but at what cost?  He doesn't play hard most of the time and will seldom fight for balls; what kind of example does this set for the younger players/rest of the team if one of your elite guys doesn't feel he has to play hard all the time?  If the offense isn't directed through him and early, he'll generally shut it down.  So basically either throw me the ball or go figure out a new game plan.  Don't tell me an elite, pure # 1 receiver is needed for this team to be successful, its been proven that a mix of quality guys who will get open and work to make the catch (Branch/Givens/Brown/Patten etc.) can be successful at a high level.  I'm in the minority on this, but I liked this team better pre-Moss. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: The rebuilding of the Pat's will continue for 2 more yrs. AND....Brady WILL WIN At least 2 more S.B 's

    mb I'm with you, the team had one thing leaders to echoed BBs message without questioning it or at least it was not in the media.

    We need guys who work, work some more and buy into his style.  I agree with you on Moss, we need more players that can get open.  Give brady 4 or 5 options rather than one deep and one (WW) accross the middle.

    Moss, AD, McGowan, Springs, all veterans all act non Patriot like.  I'm sure there are a few more in the mix that don't care about anything other than their bank account.  Remember the days when Brady took less money so they TEAM could have more cap room and get some playmakers?  I can honestly say when I saw the old guard, TB MV and on and on I knew we were ok because these guys would never quit!  can you say the same now?

    We will get there but have to clean up the house first.

    McGowan GONE
    Moss (I say we can get a few draft picks)
    AD GONE
    Springs GONE
    Anyone else who is a distraction and goes against the "Patriot way" GONE

    I rather have a 8-8 year than see these guys in a Patriot uniform.  I think we can all put up for one year of getting young players experience and make a SB run a few years in a row.

    Need coaches, get TB and WM to come in and coach.  I'm sure if they hear a safety say that block was too hard and now I'm a target they probably would slap the softness out of that safety(strong safety at that, aren't they supposed to love contact?)  Give me a blue collar tough never quit guy over a premadona who sometimes makes big plays.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from MordecaiBloodmoon. Show MordecaiBloodmoon's posts

    Re: The rebuilding of the Pat's will continue for 2 more yrs. AND....Brady WILL WIN At least 2 more S.B 's

    On VW, I think we might be able to squeeze out a 2nd this yr and 1st next for him.  But then again, I thought we would get a little more for Cassel too
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: The rebuilding of the Pat's will continue for 2 more yrs. AND....Brady WILL WIN At least 2 more S.B 's

    mb...you gotta do your homework in regards to the 2006-2008 drafts being horrible. We had 28 picks those yrs. 11 of them were 6th or 7th rnd picks. Which, coming off a run of 3 out of 4 sb's I would say were the longest of long shots. So the remaing 17 picks produced 6 starter/ pro bowl type players. ( Moss, Welker, Merriweather,Maroney, Mayo, and Gostowski ), 4 other young players still on the roster ( wheatley, Crable, Wilhite and Slater ) as well as 2 starters on other tams ( Thomas and O'calaghan ) and we flipped Le Kevin smith to Den for a draft pick. So that's 8 out of 17 N.F.L starters, one or two more "maybes", and at least 4 ( Maroney, yes Maroney will play a BIG part in their next 2 sb. WATCH ) or more pro bowlers. Not too bad
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: The rebuilding of the Pat's will continue for 2 more yrs. AND....Brady WILL WIN At least 2 more S.B 's

    makonikyman,
    hahaha homework on the draft, good one.......spin it anyway you want, the net is they drafted 4 players in 3 years that are starting (though Maroney with his inability to stay on the field whether due to injury or fumbles and Meriweather and his blown coverages and missed tackles are still works in progress) on this team and one is a kicker (be it a good one).  I also didn't know "still on the roster" had any relevance to production?  What have Wheatley, Crable, Wilhite and Slater done so far?  Many blown coverages, a fumbled kick off or two and a few special teams tackles?  Thomas and O'Callaghan (as do Wheatley and Wilhite) still fit under #1 on my list, I said, identify, draft and develop talent, so I don't care what they're doing elsewhere, they did nothing here.  The same 6-7 round picks that you claim didn't have a shot, have produced Brady, Givens, Cassel and Edelman, so I'd say there is value available in those slots, again 2006-2008 produced no late round talent.

    Overall, they've done a poor job of identifying, drafting and developing talent.


    The Moss and Welker trades provided good value.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: The rebuilding of the Pat's will continue for 2 more yrs. AND....Brady WILL WIN At least 2 more S.B 's

    ok mb....You said " the 2006-2008 drafts were aweful" correct? Isn't part of "the  draft" trading picks for players? Or players for picks etc....Moss and Welker WERE part of the draft. Show me a better group of 6 players drafted between 06-08 on ANY team that is better. The other 4 guys on the roster are there for depth and still may devolop, since it is has only been 2 yrs. As for 6th and 7th rnders, YES..very good players can and do come out of those rnds, but far less likely on a deep veteran team that is going for a ring every yr like we were in 06 and 07. There just wasn't many spots open for those type of guys back then. Givens and Edelman were both picks during rebuilding phases, Brady and Cassel were picked and put on the prac squad. Nobody claimed them and they were able to develop them for a yr ( like Hoyer now)
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: The rebuilding of the Pat's will continue for 2 more yrs. AND....Brady WILL WIN At least 2 more S.B 's

    mako fair to include them but DRAFT = evaluating players, just take Moss/Welker out and what do you have? 

    It is not a secret we have missed on players, we've let some all pros get picked after we've picked some guys who just aren't good enough to rebuild a SB team. 
    LM can't not be serious if he's been given what a 1st rnder should?

    There are a few guys here who probably spend a little too much time breaking down drafts, picks mocks, college players ect.  mb is one of them, he's dead on by saying we've had drafts that can't get above a C+ including moss/welker and a D- without.  We've missed on too many guys and also let some really good ones get away. 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: The rebuilding of the Pat's will continue for 2 more yrs. AND....Brady WILL WIN At least 2 more S.B 's

    Makonikyman,
     I said "The 2006-2008 drafts were aweful, they need to do a better job of identifying, drafting and developing talent."  Everyone knows they got good value in the Moss/Welker trades.

    They have been aweful, bombed on both second rounders and have netted zero return on all 3 third rounders (I do have hope for Crable if he can manage to make it out of camp), not to mention O'Connell (2008) has already been cut.

    As for the first rounders, Mayo looks like a potential stud, while Meriweather could potentially be a top tier safety if he can cut down on said blown coverages and missed tackles which seem to occur all too frequently.  Maroney is a bust relative to draft position, he can still be an average back in this league, but it's at the point where he's benched every time he fumbles or misses a blocking assignment, which is not exactly a positive and I'm a pro-Maroney guy.....

    If Wheatley, Crable and Wilhite eventually develop into at least productive rotation guys, we have a different conversation....
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from angel3781. Show angel3781's posts

    Re: The rebuilding of the Pat's will continue for 2 more yrs. AND....Brady WILL WIN At least 2 more S.B 's

    I agree that the Patriots are in the middle of a rebuilding phase.  However, I think that those of you who think that either Mankins or Wilfork are going anywhere are either crazy, misinformed, or both.   2010 is going to be an uncapped year as we all know.  Because of this, Logan Mankins will not be an UFA; because with an uncapped year players now need 6 yrs of experience before becoming an UFA.  Mankins must be crying himself to sleep at night, because this guy has zero leverage whatsoever. 

    As a result of the uncapped year, the Patriots can now tender Mankins at the highest level (which is roughly $3mil) or receive both a 1st & 3rd picks as compensation if he signs elswhere (plus the Pats have 7 days to match all offers).  Therefore he can either agree to negotiate a team friendly long-term deal at a higher salary than the tender amount placed on him, or be forced to play for another two more seasons at a bargain price before being able to truly cash in (So in my opinion I feel Mankins will be re-signed).

    As for Wilfork, I feel that he still has plenty of leverage.  However, the Pats have payed their star players when the team has deemed those players as bonafide studs such as was the case with Brady, Seymour, & Moss (you could also throw in Adalius Thomas and Rosevelt Colvin as well).  Likewise, when guys sought to get payed more money than what their level of production dictated, the Pats sent them packing such as Milloy, Branch, & Samuel. 

    That said, Wilfork is regarding as one of, if not the best NT in the NFL and therefore the Pats realize that he is worth a big money deal.  The only sticking point in my opinion is whether Wilfork is one of those guys who feels that not only should he get paid, but be the most highest paid.  So long as he's not trying to ask for a top 3 player at his position type deal, then I feel the Pats will ultimately succomb to Wilfork's asking price because they don't have anyone that's capable of filling his position/production at the moment.

    With regards to the way the Pats have drafted over the past several years, my biggest complaint is that they don't seem to like to move up the draft board in order to get certain players and often times seem to prefer a delayed gratification approach.  I can totally understand the Pats not moving up in round #1 due to the cost in both cash and draft picks.  However, I feel that they should always be trying to move up as high as possible in round two, because the costs are much more reasonable and you can get guys that were first round sliders on top of that.

    I believe that the Pats have adopted that strategy because they seemed to value their veterans more, but I actually think that they started the rebuilding process later than when they should have.

    I don't see many players switching teams at all due to the fact that teams not only benefit from being able to tender their own star RFA, rather than having to franchise them, but they also get to franchise two players instead of the normal one.  With that being the case I think Bodden will be re-signed because he may find that teams will value re-signing their own players with their new found leverage rather than signing other team's free agents.

    Unlike some of you, I think Dansby could be in play (although I'm not saying he'll necessarily be a Patriot).  The Pats are set up very well this year with regards to how this uncapped season has played out.  The Pats have a redicoulous number of free agents some of which like Jarvis Green and his $5mil coming off the books should allow the Pats if they wated to, to persue a guy like Dansby.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: The rebuilding of the Pat's will continue for 2 more yrs. AND....Brady WILL WIN At least 2 more S.B 's

    mb...a couple of things. First, Imagine if they had given up on A.Samuel, or Teddy Bruschi after their first 2 yrs? We would have lost out on 2 pretty darn good players ( Samuel @ Wilhite's first 2 yrs compre favorably). Now, Maroney. His rookie yr he split time with Dillon, and did very well (745 yds, 22 rec, and 1 fummble lost ). 2007 ( air Patriots yr ) he ran for 835 yd, ( a 4.5 avg) and 0 fumbles lost. 2008, IR. ( it happens to the best of them ). 2009....I am of the opinion that our o line was as responsible as Maroney . ( not the 4 fumbles, but A petterson had 4 in 1 game. would you cut him too ? ) I believe the Pats will draft 2 stud O lineman, 1 this yr and1 next. And draft/develop a body ramming fullback ( like whatshisname, from mich ? ) Maroney isn't 25 yet, has fresh legs, and has tons of experiance. DON'T GIVEUP ON HIM. It would be a big mistake IMO
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: The rebuilding of the Pat's will continue for 2 more yrs. AND....Brady WILL WIN At least 2 more S.B 's

    I'm really getting tired of seeing don't give up on laura yet, how long has he been in the league?  If he hasn't gotten it by now he won't.  He is not the future or the present for that matter at RB. 

    I'm actually going to say that IMO BJGE is a better RB than Laura and he should be promoted to lead back in the rotation.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: The rebuilding of the Pat's will continue for 2 more yrs. AND....Brady WILL WIN At least 2 more S.B 's

    makonikyman,

    You're kinda making my point, it seems they use to do a better job of identifying players and talent and developing/infusing there skill set into their scheme, putting them into position to be successful.

    They're still very patient with guys, you just hope it pays off in the long run.

    2010 is a huge year for guys like Crable, Wheatley and Wilhite.  I'll be interested to see if the hiring of Corwin Brown (a former NFL DB) helps in the development of the secondary, specifically the younger guys.


    I agree that lineman could be a target in this draft, especially with the potential retirement of Neal and the declining skills of Light.  A lot will depend on how they view the rest of the guys on the roster. 

    I'm high on a few guys in this draft as potential NE targets, specifically Mike Iupati (6-5 330 OG Idaho), Kyle Calloway (6-7 315 OT Iowa), Mike Johnson (6-5 300 OG Alabama) and Matt Tennant (6-4 3290 C/OG) Boston College.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tcal2. Show Tcal2's posts

    Re: The rebuilding of the Pat's will continue for 2 more yrs. AND....Brady WILL WIN At least 2 more S.B 's

    I'm not attached to anyone on this Defense.  Not one play maker in the group.  I have no problem with BB blowing it up.  Actually I kinda hope he does.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: The rebuilding of the Pat's will continue for 2 more yrs. AND....Brady WILL WIN At least 2 more S.B 's

    Tcal....Where've you been ? lol...The D was blown up this time last yr. GONE ..Hobbs, Vrabel, Teddy, Rodney, Seymore and next is big Vince. They have a good group of young guys to work with ( Mayo, Merriweather, Butler, Chung , Brace, Wilhite, Guyton and others like Wheatley, McKenzie , Pryor And Crable ) They'll add 2 or 3 high picks again this yr and next.

     mb...How about a late 1st and a 3rd next yr for Vince ( Minn, Tenn ? ). I Think a draft of Lupti, Pouncey, Spikes, Odrick, Perrish cox, and Graham would be a good haul, no? lol
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: The rebuilding of the Pat's will continue for 2 more yrs. AND....Brady WILL WIN At least 2 more S.B 's

    I'd like to think that the Patriots could be competitive again, but we've got so many problems right now.

    I think that our better days are over, and that we won't be competetive for awhile.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: The rebuilding of the Pat's will continue for 2 more yrs. AND....Brady WILL WIN At least 2 more S.B 's

    makonikyman,
    That'd be a nice get for VW, it all depends on if he's assigned and signs the franchise tender.

    That'd be an unbelievable haul if they could pull it off, but most of those guys have a 1st round/early 2nd round grade, so it's not likely. 
     

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