the "system" sucks ,apparently.

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    Re: the

    In response to FrankDooley's comment:

    But, I get banned and people think I am a troll.

    Cannot be made up.



    You get banned (hopefully forever some day) for posting garbage 100 times a day, attacking people instead of ideas and overall being 100% full of dung.

    Oh, and you're a liar.  They don't ban you for that.  It's just true.

    Everyone is finally realizing that you are a Jets troll.

     
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    Re: the

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    In response to FrankDooley's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    But, I get banned and people think I am a troll.

    Cannot be made up.

     



    You get banned (hopefully forever some day) for posting garbage 100 times a day, attacking people instead of ideas and overall being 100% full of dung.

     

    Oh, and you're a liar.  They don't ban you for that.  It's just true.

    Everyone is finally realizing that you are a Jets troll.

    [/QUOTE]


    You a such a stalker that from now on I'm gonna start referring to you as "RICHARD RAMIREZ", the night stalker

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: the

    In response to FrankDooley's comment:

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    receivers can't learn the system.

    Receivers can't follow the system.

    The system requires anticipation of Brady's reads...  (Yeah sure, like mindreading someone within 2.5sec.)

    Can't bring in someone who doesn't know the system.

    Only Brady really knows the system. 

     

     

     

    Maybe the system really sucks.  time to simplify the system,  ya think...?

     

     

     



    I'll disagree.  

     

    I think the "system" is large (playbook) and demanding, where most offenses in this league are simplified. Like, Gomer's offenses? Easy. His WRs and TEs all line up in rhe same spots every time. It's more about personnel advantages and execution rather than approach, deception or chameleonsque ability.

    When you think of our offenses from 2001-2004, what do you think of?  A chameleon ability from week to week which made it hard for defenses to gameplan. That's really the secret. It puts huge pressure on Ds when they aren't comfortable of what to focus on.

    We ask our WRs or TEs to move all over, know every route from every spot and know the adjustment based off of what coverage a D is showing. If the D hides the coverge, but you know what it is as you run the route (Cover 2 zone, maybe man, is there a blitz on, etc), Brady wants you to know what to do in your route.

    So, the payoff in this system is more likely to succced over time and in the postseason as opposed to be easily gameplanned for and for your D to know what to do going into a game.

    This is a big reason why Gomer is 3-9 outdoors career and 9-11 overall.  We all know what Denver will do.

    Decker to the left, over and over, Thomas to the right, a hybrid TE and maybe Caldwell in the slots.

    Over a season that stuff all is on film and then whamo, defenses have you caught cold. Believe it or not, Baltimore does not get by Denver last year if not knowing exactly what Gomer does. Same deal with our offense.

    I feel Brady wanted stats. He wanted Gomer weapons. HE got them, but he failed.

    I still like it this way, what we are now seeing this year so far. I actually think we did too much of what the Colts did in the past and what Gomer does now in Denver, which is why Brady has been stumbling. All is well during the regular season, but the wheels come off quick in January, don't they?

    It's great for the regular season and stats, but your WRs best all be on the same page in January and I think these ones truly will be, albeit sooner than that.

    Torry Holt came here and was blown away by the depth and responsibility of the scheme and playbook and that's because we essentially have two playbooks and two different offenses.

    I like the Weis one better. I think we will see more of our offense be like that, which will in turn make it a bit easier for these new players to learn. Simplified down, less plays to learn, add in more as you go.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    hey russ

     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: the

    In response to FrankDooley's comment:

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to FrankDooley's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to coolade2's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

    receivers can't learn the system.

    Receivers can't follow the system.

    The system requires anticipation of Brady's reads...  (Yeah sure, like mindreading someone within 2.5sec.)

    Can't bring in someone who doesn't know the system.

    Only Brady really knows the system. 

     

     

     

    Maybe the system really sucks.  time to simplify the system,  ya think...?

     

     

     

     

     



    I'll disagree.  

     

     

     

    I think the "system" is large (playbook) and demanding, where most offenses in this league are simplified. Like, Gomer's offenses? Easy. His WRs and TEs all line up in rhe same spots every time. It's more about personnel advantages and execution rather than approach, deception or chameleonsque ability.

    When you think of our offenses from 2001-2004, what do you think of?  A chameleon ability from week to week which made it hard for defenses to gameplan. That's really the secret. It puts huge pressure on Ds when they aren't comfortable of what to focus on.

    We ask our WRs or TEs to move all over, know every route from every spot and know the adjustment based off of what coverage a D is showing. If the D hides the coverge, but you know what it is as you run the route (Cover 2 zone, maybe man, is there a blitz on, etc), Brady wants you to know what to do in your route.

    So, the payoff in this system is more likely to succced over time and in the postseason as opposed to be easily gameplanned for and for your D to know what to do going into a game.

    This is a big reason why Gomer is 3-9 outdoors career and 9-11 overall.  We all know what Denver will do.

    Decker to the left, over and over, Thomas to the right, a hybrid TE and maybe Caldwell in the slots.

    Over a season that stuff all is on film and then whamo, defenses have you caught cold. Believe it or not, Baltimore does not get by Denver last year if not knowing exactly what Gomer does. Same deal with our offense.

    I feel Brady wanted stats. He wanted Gomer weapons. HE got them, but he failed.

    I still like it this way, what we are now seeing this year so far. I actually think we did too much of what the Colts did in the past and what Gomer does now in Denver, which is why Brady has been stumbling. All is well during the regular season, but the wheels come off quick in January, don't they?

    It's great for the regular season and stats, but your WRs best all be on the same page in January and I think these ones truly will be, albeit sooner than that.

    Torry Holt came here and was blown away by the depth and responsibility of the scheme and playbook and that's because we essentially have two playbooks and two different offenses.

    I like the Weis one better. I think we will see more of our offense be like that, which will in turn make it a bit easier for these new players to learn. Simplified down, less plays to learn, add in more as you go.

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


     

     

     

    Well...  You disagreed and then agreed. 

     

    The point is to run something within the capabilities of people who are running it.  It doesn't matter if Ernie Adams can sit in his office and smile at the perfectly designed structure of xs and o's.   hes not on the field and never was.  This esoteric version of football is only great until its on film.  somebody figures it out eventually. 

    Its so sophisticated, you're tricking your own people.  Change it up.  Its stale.  its played.  Move on to  something else.  Simpler .  Its football. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Slowly getting any new WR coming into a new system is not at all suggesting I agree to change the system outright to appease new WRs via FA or the draft.

     

    That is not what I said at all.

    I agree the system is the most demanding and complex, harder for WRs to learn as opposed to TEs, due to more routes being run from more spots, etc, 

    Finally, BB likes his WRs to block well, too, and some teams don't really care about that. That is one more element to consider.

    I think where they made the mistake in drafting WRs is football IQ and drive to learn and improve.

    Jackson, Brandon Tate, Price was hurt a lot and now done...But Jackson and Tate were not good students, didn't come off bright, etc.

    I think they went out of their way to get that in this draft. Even Donald Jones came out of college with a high football IQ, which is why I think they signed him in FA.   Until you can get proof of an NFL player showing it in the first couple years, like an Emmanuel Sanders for example, they need to prioritize like they just did with these guys.

    No one is going to claim Thompkins to be a summa cumm laude coming out of Cincy, but that's not what I mean about football IQ. I am sure they give these guys tests and make considerations from there. I believe Boyce finished at TCU in 3 years, if I am not mistaken.

    I said this 2 years ago by the way. I wouldn't even consider a guy who doesn't show those qualities first and foremost. Then, I'd look at hand and route running next.  I think they had it right with Ebert late in the draft out of Northwestern, but they probably figured Edelman was superior so just move on.

    I think they wasted some time by ignoring the fact Jackson came from an easy program, same with Tate.

    Finally, some of you make look silly later in the year here. Masked behind Brady;s tantrum were two rookies who actually were getting separation, generally catching what was in their area.

    To see Dobson just get deep behind 3 guys in itself was big for me.

    Each he and Thompkins had two bad drops that stand out, but these will disappear as the season goes.

    I look for progress. If it comes, they have it. Then, they'll add more at the Bye week.

    [/QUOTE]


    Having to find Ph.D. s to catch footballs is ridiculous.  This rejects 95% of athletes which is what we're seeing.  BB is on a different level which is great most of the time when he is being innovative but this system which players can't follow is not intelligent.

     

    Its asinine.  Simplicity is what sets people free to excel, not a convoluted attempt to derail every defense ever invented on every single play.

    Not saying this is the case all the time but it looks that way.  Change it.  Fix it . Tweak it.  Maybe not the entire thing as you said but you really have to be an arrogant sob to keep shipping off players with a dumbell sign hanging around their necks.

    Look at Eli and the jints.. .  Nicks , manningham , Cruz, on and f'n on. These guys go to NY and catch footballs. Out of nowhere.  Why...?  Could it be their system is easy to play in for a receiver...?  I'm asking the question but it's slapping me in the face.

    Maybe so.  Is it getting more obvious daily? kinda.  That's what this thread is about.  It's holding this team back.  As frank brhm pointed out the system isn't fooling anybody in the playoffs since 2004.  And if legit athletes go through here and get black balled if they fail,  wow. . .

     
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    Re: the

    "So, the payoff in this system is more likely to succced over time and in the postseason "

    There's no evidence of that in recent postseasons now is there? I'd argue the opposite is true - the hurry up part of our offense flummoxes average defenses in the regular season, if the players on the team can master it so we can use it. But the hurry up is ultimately a gimmick and in the post season teams like the Ravens have sussed it out. 

    You've made this point yourself but in the post season you have to be able to run the ball down someone's throat even when they know it's coming. 

    I would agree with the OP, the system is way too complex, it's obvious by how few grasp it. The unfortunate thing is that a downfield receiver who just blasts by the defense is the easiest part of our system, but since Moss Belichick has made no aggressive effort to address the easiest part of our offensive system. 

    But Babe, I'd say this is a Belichick as coach problem also. You have to make it easier for the young guys to catch on. 

    That said I refuse to give up on the rookies. And I want to see Brady offering them more encouragement. He's got to get over his anger over what he wasn't provided and work positively with what he has. 

    I'm down on this offense right now but I say it's too too early to lose hope. There is still time for both Belichick and Brady to be vindicated on the moves made. 

         

     
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    Re: the

    In response to bingobilly's comment:

    Do not be surprised when at the end of this season the Patriots finish with a losing record and either do not make the playoffs or go one and done (even at home...), Robert Kraft cleans house, i.e. BB gone and TB traded.  Kraft is a shrewd businessman and will not hesitate to protect his investment whatever it takes...



    Pfffffftt... next

     
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    Re: the

    In response to BostonTrollSpanker's comment:

    "So, the payoff in this system is more likely to succced over time and in the postseason "

    There's no evidence of that in recent postseasons now is there? I'd argue the opposite is true - the hurry up part of our offense flummoxes average defenses in the regular season, if the players on the team can master it so we can use it. But the hurry up is ultimately a gimmick and in the post season teams like the Ravens have sussed it out. 

    You've made this point yourself but in the post season you have to be able to run the ball down someone's throat even when they know it's coming. 

    I would agree with the OP, the system is way too complex, it's obvious by how few grasp it. The unfortunate thing is that a downfield receiver who just blasts by the defense is the easiest part of our system, but since Moss Belichick has made no aggressive effort to address the easiest part of our offensive system. 

    But Babe, I'd say this is a Belichick as coach problem also. You have to make it easier for the young guys to catch on. 

    That said I refuse to give up on the rookies. And I want to see Brady offering them more encouragement. He's got to get over his anger over what he wasn't provided and work positively with what he has. 

    I'm down on this offense right now but I say it's too too early to lose hope. There is still time for both Belichick and Brady to be vindicated on the moves made. 

         




    Good comments there. I like what you said about the simplicity of the deep ball. . It reminds me of 2 plays last year...

    branch was split left and Brady gave him a nod or a signal of some kind...  Then branch who is not a burner anymore did a go-route and got a step on the db on the sideline brady hit him for a td.

    The second play was the 49ers with kapernick scoring on us.  They sent 3 guys deep straight up the seams.  I thought what a great simple play. You have 2 safeties, they can only cover 2. Somebody is in single coverage, maybe the tight end covered by a linebacker... Touchdown .

    Have you seen us run that play? I haven't.  Stuff like that.  Why is this offense not doing the obvious simple effective strategies to make big plays...? 

    The answer is the system somehow prevents it.  There is an esoteric structure with many layers and tricky segments and formations and packages.  Fancy right?  It was ... 3 years ago.  The defenses have caught up and caught on.   The players are not grasping it, or are not good enough to excel within its framework.

    Either way,  as Dooley pointed out the effectiveness of Weis offense was the chameleonesque characteristic of changing what you're doing during games.  Heavy running followed by passes down the field or over the top, screens, reverses.  Attack the whole field. Can we get back to that? I dunno.

     

     

     
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    Re: the

    The Patriots, Tom Coughlin's Giants, Bill Cowhers Steelers, the 80's-90's Giants, John Fox's Panthers... just some of the teams that run this system with success.  Doesn't seem to be a problem.

     
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    Re: the

    In response to coolade2's comment:

    receivers can't learn the system.

    Receivers can't follow the system.

    The system requires anticipation of Brady's reads...  (Yeah sure, like mindreading someone within 2.5sec.)

    Can't bring in someone who doesn't know the system.

    Only Brady really knows the system. 

     

     

     

    Maybe the system really sucks.  time to simplify the system,  ya think...?

     

     




    When passes are hitting receivers in the hands - it's not the system that's the problem. Do you watch the games or just comment on stats?

     
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    Re: the

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    The Patriots, Tom Coughlin's Giants, Bill Cowhers Steelers, the 80's-90's Giants, John Fox's Panthers... just some of the teams that run this system with success.  Doesn't seem to be a problem.




     

    You're talking about terminology, or code.  The product on the field is the system plus the aps.  You want to compare the offense of 80s giants with parcells to Brady's?  This is the issue ... The system and what you're doing with it or trying to do.

     

     
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    Re: the

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    The Patriots, Tom Coughlin's Giants, Bill Cowhers Steelers, the 80's-90's Giants, John Fox's Panthers... just some of the teams that run this system with success.  Doesn't seem to be a problem.



    This is true. The E-P system goes pretty far back now. Parcells used it.  More teams are using it now.   The simple nomenclature is why the no-huddle works so well with it.  The first  that I remember hearing that it was complicated was during the Ochocinco thing.  I don't think he did his homework.

     

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