The West Coast Offense

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    Re: The West Coast Offense

    In response to CliffordWasHere's comment:

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    You're telling me I did not preface my post with "I fully realize this is a blog website"?

     

    Now, you're lying? Wow, dude. Keep spinning.

    Do you still think we've never run any West Coast here with Brady, too? And you call me delusional?

    Name something I "throw out there" that is "delusional".  I source every premise with fact and data. 

    Are 28 TDs and 19 INTs for Brady since 2005 in the heavily dosed West Coast or Coryell style offense in the postseasone one of these "delusions"?

    lol

     

     

     



    Proof right there hoping no one will see the difference.  See, in Spin #1 you said "kidwith a blog".  Spin #2 drops the "kid" reference because you never used it, nor "blog" for that matter.  Your intolerance for millennials is well known.  You never would have knowingly sourced a millennial to support your bias.  The kid is around 20.  You can't stand 20 year olds.  Memo to self:  next time do the DD on the source before making the cite.

     

    As for TB and the 28/19, as I said before, PM went 3/7 (much worse) in 2006 and won a SB.  Stats like these are looooooooooser stats.

    The hole is deep enough.  Throw away your d@mn shovel.

     



    I don't really care what the eaxact words were...I don't remember exactly what the words ere, but it's clear I prefaced that source by saying it was not a good source...I am not going to back to look especially if I was banned. Why don't you POST what I wrote so you can back your claim. I know for a fact, I introduced the kid website post and his analysis ACKNOWLEDGING it as such.

     

    If it's still there, cut and paste and post it here so we can see what I wrote, counselor.

    I noticed it as a kid's blog and laughed. Period.  It's sad a kid who has some blog knows more than professor ZBellino or Wozzy.  It is. It's funny since they think they're never wrong about anything, ever.   Admit it: You were on the side of Z and now are also embarrassed  that you didn't know BB has run West Coast plays here. 

     




    Listen to yourself.  Don't take me literally.  I don't mean the voices in your head.  Re-read what you wrote.  BB has run a play or two from every offense that has ever existed.  Remember when he had Flutie drop-kick, a play that hadn't been successful in something like 60 years?

     

    But N-O the Pats do not now, and never have run a West Coast Offense.  But, of course you've cutely tried to change the wording (wording does matter) to  say "plays" instead of "offense".  Some didn't notice the change, but most did.

     

     


    Umm, what?  ZBellino said BB has never run a West Coast here.  He's wrong. What exactly am I changing here again?

    BB has run a hybrid West Coast here and I posted numerous sourced info in support. Yes. I can't wait for the part when you tell me I need to change my choice of words of "hybrid" to appease what you want me to say in describing that fact. lol

    Keep spinning.  Too bad my original strong analysis is now deleted because it was well done and all Z desperately had was a one line retort hoping it was enough to make it seem like he's superior, which is comical, because he's so wrong.

    BB will never, EVER, EVER pigeonhole himself on offense or defense with just one scheme. It's part of his genius.

    Check it out sometime.

    BB ran no huddle almost as a base offense in some games this year via Chip Kelly doing it at Oregon. He's constantly borrowing and he absolutely borrowed from Bill Walsh with the West Coast. To say BB has never used it is preposterous and embarrassing for Z, Wozzy and you.

     

     




    Yep.

     

    Iteration 1:  BB ran a West Coast Offense

    Iteration 2: BB ran a Hybrid West Coast Offense

    Iteration 3: BB runs some West Coast plays/formations

    Before your evolutionary thinking produces Iteration 4, see if you can see the difference in these statements. 

    Here's my thesis based on the same foundation as your "proven" premise:  BB runs a drop-kick extra point scheme.  Am I right or wrong?

     



    You're wrong because I've said he runs a hybrid here for years. Years. I also said it in my original post.  I say it because it's the best way to explain that it's not JUST the old Perkins/Erhardt system he uses.

     

    Your JOhnnie Cochrane approach won't work.  Z took umbrage with my term of a hybrid West Coast offense where he quickly tried to quell the idea we've run ANY West Coast here.

     




    No.  You shifted to "hybrid" 'cause you realized you were getting slammed.  It's like you're using the forum as a focus group to see what we think of your ideas.  Here's what we think - they stink.   Johnnie Cochrane?  I think Jodi's defense team put up a better defense than you here.  But you have something in common with her.   You keep sliding and dodging, trying out new material to see if anything sticks to the wall.

    I haven't heard you reply to my thesis.  I want you on record.  Does BB run a drop-kick extra point scheme?  Yes or No?

     
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    Re: The West Coast Offense

    In response to CliffordWasHere's comment:


    Right, so just answer the questions. Here's how dumb you are as a stay at home mommy:

     

    You didn't realize the only person to challenge me describing Brady back under Center and him being better using more West Coast offense, was only Z.

    So, that HAS to be the post you are referring to with me supposedly being "owned".

    LOL!!!

    Caught in your own little games again. Here's a hint: Don't lie, be straightforward and honest with no trolling and you'll be fine here.

    What has happened to you? YOu went from photoshop guy who is new to the game to unglued on March 13th when Welkie walked, and now you're bordering on a troll in threads I post in. I am not the only who sees it either, TFB12.

     

     


    LOL at stay at home mommy.  While I was away from the forum due to work you were still here posting, hmmm? Interesting!  You can't even be smart when trying to cut someone down!

     

    LOL @ new to the game.  You just don't stop with your lies and false statements, do ya?  Thanks to my older brothers I was playing football the day I was brought home from the hospital, while you were playing with dolls.  I think we all know that you never played the game before.  You really have some problems dude!  What part of very few people want you here don't you understand?

     
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    Re: The West Coast Offense

    I just have to know, does Rusty even believe half the garbage he posts here?  It's not possible!  He can't be that mentally challenged, can he?  Well, Maybe so!

     
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    Re: The West Coast Offense

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    I just have to know, does Rusty even believe half the garbage he posts here?  It's not possible!  He can't be that mentally challenged, can he?  Well, Maybe so!




    Be careful TFB12.  He's using the same strategy with you that Hannibal Lecter did with Miggs in the next cell.   Be strong.

    Does he believe what he posts?  I can't imagine that he does.  I think he has an internal battle where he can't figure out why, with his "high intelligence" that he can't grasp what the Pats are doing and why they have been successful.  It must be very frustrating.

     
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    Re: The West Coast Offense

    And he still hasn't answered what surely should be a very simple question for someone with a high IQ ...

    Does BB run a drop-kick extra point scheme?

    Why is this so difficult?

    Why are you running from this?

     
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    Re: The West Coast Offense

    In response to CliffordWasHere's comment:

     


    Nah. Trolls follow me around and try to troll.  If you can't see that, then I cannot help you there.

     

    Look at TFB12 in that WR thread.  Troll city. Now, he's denying he said I was being "owned"  by Z.

    He's gone as far as to say he was claiming he was talking about someone else "owning" me which is hilarious since based on the sequence of replies after my original one Z took umbrage with, no one else chimed in.

     



    Of course people bait you. You haven't figured out why yet? And denial of your own accountability is also part of your MO.

     
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    Re: The West Coast Offense

    In response to CliffordWasHere's comment:

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    In response to CliffordWasHere's comment:

     


    Right, so just answer the questions. Here's how dumb you are as a stay at home mommy:

     

    You didn't realize the only person to challenge me describing Brady back under Center and him being better using more West Coast offense, was only Z.

    So, that HAS to be the post you are referring to with me supposedly being "owned".

    LOL!!!

    Caught in your own little games again. Here's a hint: Don't lie, be straightforward and honest with no trolling and you'll be fine here.

    What has happened to you? YOu went from photoshop guy who is new to the game to unglued on March 13th when Welkie walked, and now you're bordering on a troll in threads I post in. I am not the only who sees it either, TFB12.

     

     

     


    LOL at stay at home mommy.  While I was away from the forum due to work you were still here posting, hmmm? Interesting!  You can't even be smart when trying to cut someone down!

     

    LOL @ new to the game.  You just don't stop with your lies and false statements, do ya?  Thanks to my older brothers I was playing football the day I was brought home from the hospital, while you were playing with dolls.  I think we all know that you never played the game before.  You really have some problems dude!  What part of very few people want you here don't you understand?

     



    BALONEY.  It's why you only do the photoshopping thing.  You only feel secure doing that. No one can name one time you got into an in depth discussion on football concepts or ideology.

     

    Not once.

    I could not care less who wants me here or who does.  What part of that, don't you understand? Leave it some guy who started following our team in 2007 to tell long time diehards who are very knowledgable how to be a fan.

     




    You are a die hard??  You started following the team in 2011.  When I joined this forum in 08 you weren't here.  I don't recall seeing you here until 2011.  Man, it really shows that you are new to the game.  I think they have a football guide for dummies book you can go get.

    As far as in depth discussion, like I said I started playing football right when I got home from the hospital.  I played football, I coached football and what I see from you is you have never played the game!  It clearly shows.  Your in depth discussions are name calling and telling false information.  Which btw I have more then once prved you wrong by facts, as well as many others here have done so to you.

     

     
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    Re: The West Coast Offense

    In response to CatfishHunter's comment:

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    I just have to know, does Rusty even believe half the garbage he posts here?  It's not possible!  He can't be that mentally challenged, can he?  Well, Maybe so!

     




    Be careful TFB12.  He's using the same strategy with you that Hannibal Lecter did with Miggs in the next cell.   Be strong.

     

    Does he believe what he posts?  I can't imagine that he does.  I think he has an internal battle where he can't figure out why, with his "high intelligence" that he can't grasp what the Pats are doing and why they have been successful.  It must be very frustrating.




    Bwahahahahahaha!!!

     
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    Re: The West Coast Offense

    In response to CatfishHunter's comment:

    And he still hasn't answered what surely should be a very simple question for someone with a high IQ ...

    Does BB run a drop-kick extra point scheme?

    Why is this so difficult?

    Why are you running from this?




    LOL!  Owned again!

     
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    Re: The West Coast Offense

    I'm just going to put this here...

     

    Belichick on the Air Coryell & West Coast Offenses

    Found this nugget from an old BB press conference. Interesting to hear him talk about the two offensive systems that he doesn’t use. Well, maybe that’s not entirely true, there are surely concepts from these offenses that BB has plucked for his own modified version of the Erhardt-Perkins offense.

    Q: The “Air Coryell” offense of the early eighties, was that an extension of what Paul Brown came up with?

    BB: Yeah. I would say it’s an extension, yes. I would say it would come from that tree.

    Q: Do you ever look back and study the tape of what Paul Brown did and use that in your offense at all?

    BB: Well, again, basically what Paul [Brown] did was he ran the west coast offense. What’s called today the west coast offense, that was really Paul’s offense. As that has spread through the league. There are a lot of different versions of it, from [Mike] Holmgren, who is probably the purist. His offense is probably most like what San Francisco ran back in the ‘80s with Bill Walsh. Then you have Andy [Reid] and Jon Gruden, all the different offshoots that come out of that, [Mike] McCarthy, basically the whole NFC North, right? Green Bay. So, there’s a lot of offshoots of that and they have their own individual adaptations of it. For example, I-Formation was a very minimal part of that offense as Bill Walsh ran it, not as Paul Brown ran it. Paul ran a lot of “I” when he had [Paul] Robinson and Ickey [Woods] and those guys. He ran a lot of that I-Formation. So each coach has modified it a little bit.

    Q: Is what [Don] Coryell ran considered the west coast offense?

    BB: No. I think there are elements of it, yeah, but it was a much more downfield passing game and less replacing runs with those drive routes, the underneath crossing patterns, the wide routes by the backs, a lot of slants, the plays that come with a high frequency in the west coast offense. A lot of those are really replacements for runs. The Coryell passing attack is much more of a downfield passing game.

    Q: When you went up against that, how did you try to stop it?

    BB: The Coryell teams? Well Don’s offense when he was out at San Diego, that was one of the most explosive offenses I had seen, and still have. They had Kellen Winslow, Chuck Muncie and then the receivers were [Wes] Chandler, [John] Jefferson and [Charlie] Joiner. And they had Dan Fouts and they also had a real good offensive line, too. They were good. Then Joe Gibbs really took the Coryell offense, which was mainly a one-back offense -as opposed to the west coast offense, which had some one back but it was really more of a two-back offense than a one-back offense-and Gibbs took the Coryell system and, obviously, when he went to Washington, had great success with it. Then that spread to Dan Henning and Joe Bugel and guys like that who went on to be head coaches and took that offense with them. I think that the Joe Gibbs offense is much closer related to the Coryell offense than the west coast offense is.

    Q: If the Coryell Chargers had won that 41-38 game against the Dolphins, would that have changed how that offense was used moving forward?

    BB: I don’t know. I don’t think anyone ever thought that offense wasn’t a good offense, whether they had scored 38 in that game or 44. But a lot of that goes with other teams hiring people from that system or leaving it and going to the next team and taking the offense with them. It’s like what we’ve seen out of San Diego this year. We of course played the Jets, which was [Brian] Schottenheimer, then we played San Diego, which actually wasn’t San Diego, it was Norv Turner, but it was San Diego because there was a lot of carryover there. Then we played Buffalo, which was San Diego, and then we played Cleveland, which was [Rob] Chudzinski, and that was San Diego. Now we’re playing Cam [Cameron] and that’s San Diego. The Norv influence between San Diego and Dallas with [Jason] Garrett there, in seven games we’ve had a lot of similarity in the offensive systems that we’ve seen, predominantly San Diego but to an extent the Norv Turner system, which is somewhat similar to the San Diego system. Again, that is a function of those coordinators and head coaches going from one system into another and taking it with them. That’s just like it was with [Bill] Walsh, [George] Seifert, [Mike] Holmgren, [Jon] Gruden, Ray Rhodes and then all the other disciples that have come through, too, like [Mike] McCarthy and those guys, Dennis Green. They all took the west coast with them. So it was prevalent and in terms of league-wide it was used in high percentages throughout the season. I can’t remember exactly how the Coryell system went, but my sense of it was that it didn’t break apart too much. Now when Gibbs went to Washington then it was Dan Henning, although his coaches stayed together for the most part for quite a while. Bugel went to Arizona. Who else? But [Don] Coryell and Sid Gillman, that was a very well thought out and excellent passing system with a lot of production.

     
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    Re: The West Coast Offense

    In response to CliffordWasHere's comment:

    In response to CatfishHunter's comment:

     

    And he still hasn't answered what surely should be a very simple question for someone with a high IQ ...

    Does BB run a drop-kick extra point scheme?

    Why is this so difficult?

    Why are you running from this?

     



    Please post my intro about the kid's blog. You still haven't done that. Wonder why? lmao

     

    I know what you're doing with your question.  You think I'm dumb, but I am not.  You're being as sneaky as what Z was.

    Of course our base offense was what Weis learned. Of course!  But, they didn't stand pat using the same plays with Brady clearly mastering what they had.

    How would you describe the plays in this offense here?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEumzvnU9gY

     

    This is a mix of West Coast and the Erhardt/Perkins base.

    1. Dillon never leaves the field.

    2. They move the same personnel around.

    3. Brady is under Center, except on 3rd and longs.

     




    You posted yourself that you went back and checked the thread yourself.  TFB12 gave you the link and you went back and reread the thread.   That's what you said.

    So I have to cut your meat into bite-size pieces for you?  OK.  I'll play the 3rd grade game this time.  You said: "Yes, I realize this is a fan site".  You didn't say kid and didn't say blog.  You were gone minutes after a photo was posted of the Millennial author of that blog.

    The humiliation was just so enormous that I called for neutral corners. You committed suicide by mod within seconds of the photo being posted.

     
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    Re: The West Coast Offense

    In response to CliffordWasHere's comment:


    Joined here in 2007 as Rusty. Posted for years at ESPN. And, I am not going to say it again, bandwagoner:

     

    Season tickets since 1978. Was at the first MNF game in 15 years in 1995.  Was at the FIRST AFC Title game in Foxborough. EVER. Went to COUNTLESS games at the old stadium, well before you bandwagoned here.

    And, I played football. Plenty of it. My point is, you're a guest here on this board as some bandwagon wannabe fan from Nevada. No one from the Boston area bandwagons from team to team, so don't pretend it's welcomed, especially in Boston. Trust me on that one.

    If you coached football, your teams must have seriously sucked.

     



    Sure Rusty, with all the lies I have caught you in you want me and everyone here to believe this.  You became a fan in 2008 and you never played football because you dodged that question forever. 

    Sure, my teams sucked.  Matter of fact one of the kids on my team was the son of one of the most successful and most respected coaches in the area.  Also had a kid on our team who's father played for the Steelers.  I don't think these people would have their kids on a team who's coaching staff sucked.  And here you are saying I don't know football! all righty then!

     
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    Re: The West Coast Offense

    Let the record show that I answered all his questions, but the one question I asked he was afraid to answer.

    Does BB run a drop-kick extra point scheme?

    I'm off for the rest of the night.  Be well all.

     
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    Re: The West Coast Offense

    In response to CliffordWasHere's comment:

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    In response to CatfishHunter's comment:

     

    And he still hasn't answered what surely should be a very simple question for someone with a high IQ ...

    Does BB run a drop-kick extra point scheme?

    Why is this so difficult?

    Why are you running from this?

     




    LOL!  Owned again!

     

     




    You dancing in and out as a bandwagon dork saying "LOL!" and "Owned again"! doesn't really mean anything.

     

    I proved above you were caught in a lie. It's funny watching you squirm.  This all goes back to me calling the fact BB was walking from Welkie one he upped Hernandez to a new deal last year. You were too naive and obtuse to get it. Then, when it was pointed out to you again on 3.13, you just became unglued like you are Welkie's wife.

     




    I lied?  Nice try Rusty!  Oh, and I'm squirmming?  Nice try again.  LOL!  What a piece of work you are.  Hey I got it... Why don't we have a vote between me and you to see who people would rather have here.  Loser leaves forever.  Deal?

     
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    Re: The West Coast Offense

    In response to CliffordWasHere's comment:



    Did you just say us going downfield with Moss or underneath with Welker can't be seen as both the West Coast and the Coryell merged together?

     

    LOL!

    You have no idea what you're talking about whatsoever.  You don't even know what BB is doing with the offenses from year to year.  What's next?

    That he "doesn't use".  bawhahahahha!!

    Cannot be made up. Just can't. NEWSFLASH: BB uses EVERYTHING! Ugh.  The moronic reading comprehension is so bad.

    Can't you see that what BB is saying there with the West Coast and Coryell is that they are carryovers and nothing is definitive?

    It's like a mutation in a sense. There is no black and white even if in the roots of each offense, conceptually, there is.

    This is why when Z says "we've never run any West Coast here", he is completely, 100% wrong.

     




    Um, What are you talking about?  I have not said anything about the Patriots and the West Coast Offense.  You don't even know who says what around here because you are too busy arguing with everyone.  In the original thread discussing the West Coast Offense I said this......

    [QUOTE]

    Agreed.  What is perfect about your example here is you point out a very important and specific piece to the puzzle.  The 49'ers had Rice and the Pats had Moss.  Both legit deep threat receivers that really made everything work.  Something the Pats have not been able to do since Moss left.  Sure, the Pats got by not having a legit deep threat receiver, but a legit deep threat receiver takes everything to the next level. 

    [/QUOTE]

    So please show me where I said anything else about the West Coast Offense.  Now you are putting word in my mouth.  You are a fraud?  C'mon Rusty, prove to me where I said anything about the Patriots and the West Coast Offense like you are saying I said.   LOL at Rusty can't keep his arguments straight.

     
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