The White Elephant In The Room

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: The White Elephant In The Room

    In Response to Re: The White Elephant In The Room:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The White Elephant In The Room : I think what Rusty is saying, is that the Patriots are currently built like the old colts. They won a lot of regular season games, but didn't see much success in post-season play.  There were a handful of teams back then who could beat the Colts on a regular basis; one of which were the Patriots. Fast forward in time (after 2004). We now are the New England Colts - arguably, the top 3 pass-oriented, one dimensional offenses in the NFL.  We win a lot of regular season games, and have questionable post season successs since 2005. Yes, we've made it to two SBs; and lost both of them to the Giants.  Today, the Giants are to the Patriots what the Patriots were to the Colts in the past. IMO, we are two players away from having the number 1 balanced offense in the NFL (a blocking TE made like Crumpler from 2010 and a RB like Smith or Dillon). However, our young D is perhaps 2-4 players away from having a team that can beat a team like the Giants. I think the real question is - what kind of a team stands in the way of the Patriots winning a SB - and what do the Patriots have to do player wise to beat that kind of team.
    Posted by anonymis[/QUOTE]

    Most people think the Colts losses in the play-offs were due to NOT HAVING A D.  When the Pats won their SB's they had great D's. 
    Is this still the case?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: The White Elephant In The Room

    In Response to Re: The White Elephant In The Room:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The White Elephant In The Room : You don't think Light and Mankins being out had anything to do with Brady being on his back more than a $20.00 hO+Oker?  LOL. The fact remains the O made adjustments and won. The D also made some nice adjustments in the second half which contributed to them solidifying the 1st seed that day.  To me, that was the best game they played as a team all year as the really showed their grit. No one is enamored with Tb (well not me anyway)  There were times I wanted to ring his neck and actually thought he should have been pulled.  The Buffalo game was one. My problem is, you give him almost no credit and all blame.  That's ludicrous! You can also find no fault with the 31st ranked D which is also baffling. It's great they got 2 TO's a game.  Isn't it their job to get the ball back? That's what a complete team does.  They were great at that but not in the SB. If they had been, I think it's safe to say the outcome might have been different. All O's benefit from turn overs and all teams suffer as a result of not getting them.  Not just the Pats. Why is it that nearly all the QB's the Pats played for the past couple of years, QBRs jumped 50 points above their average when they played the Pats? Was that Brady's fault too?  C'mon man.  Give credit where credit is due.
    Posted by pezz4pats[/QUOTE]

    The better question is, why aren't we running more with Mankins starting at LT and a makeshift O Line in place with Light out?

    Even when we have a shifting O Line, we still come out with the same one dimensional offense and you applaud that?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: The White Elephant In The Room

    In Response to Re: The White Elephant In The Room:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The White Elephant In The Room : Most people think the Colts losses in the play-offs were due to NOT HAVING A D.  When the Pats won their SB's they had great D's.  Is this still the case?
    Posted by pezz4pats[/QUOTE]



    Or, some realize the finesse offense with Wayne disappearing and Manning being worse outdoors in the cold is the source of their issues.

    Hmmm.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: The White Elephant In The Room

    In Response to Re: The White Elephant In The Room:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The White Elephant In The Room : I think maybe we are taking something out of context.  I think a different way of looking at the Patriots is: What do the Patriots have to be able to do when opponents stop our one dimensional, passing offense (via pressure on Brady and coverage of our receivers) - and the logical answer is run the ball.
     
    RESPONSE: I reject your premise that the Pats' passing attack is "one dimensional". It's not. Their supposedly one dimensional attack took them to 13 wins, and a SB. When they lost to the Giants, they were in essence playing without their #1 threat...Gronk. In any event, they have already taken steps to diversify their passing attack, with the addition of WRs Brandon Lloyd, Stallworth, and Gonzalez.
         Sure...it would be nice if the Pats could run the ball better. But, they  are not going to be successful doing that with their current weak stable of RBs. Are you proposing that they trade for a stud RB, or use a high draft choice to get one?


    The other complementary to that is in those low scoring competitions, it means our defense has to change a little bit and come of with big plays - AND get off the field in a more timely manner to give our offense another go.

    RESPONSE: Here lies the main problem. A better pass rush would force turn overs, and allow the "D" easier access off the field.
    Posted by anonymis[/QUOTE]
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: The White Elephant In The Room

    BJGE 8 carries for 50 yards in AFC title game.

    "Hmmm".

    Absolutely they had a running back they chose not to use.   The same RB who ran amuck over your feeble Run D in 2011.  lol
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: The White Elephant In The Room

    In Response to Re: The White Elephant In The Room:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The White Elephant In The Room : The better question is, why aren't we running more with Mankins starting at LT and a makeshift O Line in place with Light out? Even when we have a shifting O Line, we still come out with the same one dimensional offense and you applaud that?
    Posted by BassFishing[/QUOTE]

    It will be interesting to see if guys like Mankins, Vollmer, and Cannon can help improve the running game w/o additional help from the TE position.  If Gronk is blocking for the RB - it takes away from the flexibility of the offense. We need a different person blocking for the RB corp so that Gronk can be a receiver....
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: The White Elephant In The Room

    In Response to Re: The White Elephant In The Room:
    [QUOTE]What is my "claim"? A gold claim?
     
    RESPONSE: They might as well be...because your football claim is not based on fact...just your feelings.

    So, an imbalanced offense wins SBs now? lol
     
    RESPONSE: Err...yes. The Green Bay Packers won 15 games last year, and a SB the year before, without being able to run the ball. The 2011 Giants were statistically one of the worst rushing teams in the NFL, yet won the SB. I'm still waiting for you to rebut these facts, Rusty. 

    So, what worked in 2004 especially seeing how the Giants just beat the Pats in 2012 (or 2007 for that matter), doesn't work any longer?  LOL! You sure showed me, TPat.
     
    RESPONSE: Well Rusty...I tried. But obviously you wish to ignore the facts, and stubbornly stick to a theory that isn't supported by facts.

    A physical running game ABSOLUTELY won teams SBs in recent years, whether it be the Colts in 2006, Giants in 2007, Saints in 2009 or GB in 2010 with that Starks/Kuhn or Brandon Jackson as a change of pace back. Heck, before Mendenhall fumbled in the SB vs GB, they had run amuck on their feeble run D all game long, en route to a win over GB.
     
    RESPONSE: Really? Why...because you say so?? LOL!!!

    And your lies will not work.

    RESPONSE: Lies?? Try facts, my boy. I'm still waiting to see your facts. So far, we've seen nothing but bluster.

    Bradshaw and Jacobs were hurt for a large chunk of the season, hence why they "didn't run it well" last year.  Do not lie. It will not work.

    RESPONSE: And your point is?? The bottom line is that, without a running game, the G-men were still able to win the NFC East, beat Atlanta at home, Green Bay and the 49ers on the road, and edge the Pats in the SB. We're still waiting for some evidence which supports your blowhard, bogus theory, Rusty.  
    Posted by BassFishing[/QUOTE]
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: The White Elephant In The Room

    In Response to Re: The White Elephant In The Room:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The White Elephant In The Room : The better question is, why aren't we running more with Mankins starting at LT and a makeshift O Line in place with Light out? Even when we have a shifting O Line, we still come out with the same one dimensional offense and you applaud that?
    Posted by BassFishing[/QUOTE]

    Ummm because the RB's were ditched due to getting bowled over by the pass attack.  Because TB needed more time to see where the danger was coming from because the RB's could not protect him.
    Could it be that this was the reason for the slight decline in rushing this year?
    Because every one and their mother knows that the way to beat TB is put him on his back and ineffective blocking caused adjustments to the spread, empty backfield against any one who tried, ESPECIALLY with Mankins and Light out.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: The White Elephant In The Room

    In Response to Re: The White Elephant In The Room:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The White Elephant In The Room : Ummm because the RB's were ditched due to getting bowled over by the pass attack.  Because TB needed more time to see where the danger was coming from because the RB's could not protect him. Could it be that this was the reason for the slight decline in rushing this year? Because every one and their mother knows that the way to beat TB is put him on his back and ineffective blocking caused adjustments to the spread, empty backfield against any one who tried, ESPECIALLY with Mankins and Light out.
    Posted by pezz4pats[/QUOTE]

         Also...because the Pats stable of RBs last year was mediocre, at best. Now, with most dependable RB they had, BJGE, a Bengal...their current corp of RBs is weak. 

         Would the Pats have a better offense if they could run the ball as well as they throw it? Sure. But...this is not why they didn't win a championship last year. 

         Those of you who get the NFL channel...watch how the Steelers beat the Patriots last year. That replay is on now. They didn't beat the Pats  by running the ball. They beat them with a Patriots-like short to intermediate passing attack...which was made more effective because the Pats had to concern themselves with deep threat Mike Wallace. 

         What the Pats need to win a championship is a much better pass defense. They need upgrades at CB and safety. They also need an athletic OLB who can rush the passer, and is good in coverage.      
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: The White Elephant In The Room

    I don't think the RB's were that bad.  Didn't they ave 4.0 a carry?
    I really think what hurt them was inexperience and with Benny being out or lightly used 8+ games due to injury, they were forced to rely on Woody too much.  I love Woody and believe he'd rip his own heart out of his chest to get the job done, but....not that great in protection as rushers merely jumped over him on their way to TB.  LOL
    They're obviously making attempts to fix this with the addition of FBs and with more experience in the system, I expect to see an improvement this year.
    Then people can find something else to b*tch about.  LOL
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: The White Elephant In The Room

    In Response to Re: The White Elephant In The Room:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The White Elephant In The Room : It will be interesting to see if guys like Mankins, Vollmer, and Cannon can help improve the running game w/o additional help from the TE position.  If Gronk is blocking for the RB - it takes away from the flexibility of the offense. We need a different person blocking for the RB corp so that Gronk can be a receiver....
    Posted by anonymis[/QUOTE]

    We have a roadgrading 9 mil per Guard who we ask to pass protect (his weakness) for 40 times per game. Absolutely line up Mankins, Gronk, Cannon, etc, and run the ball.   This is such old news at this point it's beyond ridiculous. Throwing fundamentals out the window won't win SBs.



     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: The White Elephant In The Room

    In Response to Re: The White Elephant In The Room:
    [QUOTE]I don't think the RB's were that bad.  Didn't they ave 4.0 a carry? I really think what hurt them was inexperience and with Benny being out or lightly used 8+ games due to injury, they were forced to rely on Woody too much.  I love Woody and believe he'd rip his own heart out of his chest to get the job done, but....not that great in protection as rushers merely jumped over him on their way to TB.  LOL They're obviously making attempts to fix this with the addition of FBs and with more experience in the system, I expect to see an improvement this year. Then people can find something else to b*tch about.  LOL
    Posted by pezz4pats[/QUOTE]

         BB would not have brought in those FBs unless he planned on bringing in a big-time RB. Watch for a possible Steven Jackson trade...or even him using a high draft pick on a RB.    
        
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: The White Elephant In The Room

    In Response to Re: The White Elephant In The Room:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The White Elephant In The Room : We have a roadgrading 9 mil per Guard who we ask to pass protect (his weakness) for 40 times per game. Absolutely line up Mankins, Gronk, Cannon, etc, and run the ball.   This is such old news at this point it's beyond ridiculous. Throwing fundamentals out the window won't win SBs.
    Posted by BassFishing[/QUOTE]

    and yet, the "problem" still persists
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: The White Elephant In The Room

    In Response to Re: The White Elephant In The Room:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The White Elephant In The Room :      BB would not have brought in those FBs unless he planned on bringing in a big-time RB. Watch for a possible Steven Jackson trade...or even him using a high draft pick on a RB.         
    Posted by TexasPat[/QUOTE]

    Polite is gone. The Patriots didn't perceive much value in FBs since mebbe Evans, and used either linemen or TEs instead.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: The White Elephant In The Room

    In Response to Re: The White Elephant In The Room:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The White Elephant In The Room : Polite is gone. The Patriots didn't perceive much value in FBs since mebbe Evans, and used either linemen or TEs instead.
    Posted by anonymis[/QUOTE]

         BB signed two UFA fullbacks, Tony Fiammetta and Spencer Larsen: http://www.sportsnet.ca/football/nfl/2012/03/30/deion_branch_new
    _england_patriots_nfl_free_agency/
       

         There must be a reason for this. Here's more on Larsen:
    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/22/patriots-sign-versatile-fullback-spencer-larsen/
     
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    Re: The White Elephant In The Room

    In Response to The White Elephant In The Room:
    [QUOTE]is our 31st ranked defense from 2011.  The elephant has actually been around, arguably, since 2005/2006. I think most would agree that the problems with the defense still involve the pass rush, inability to cover, defensive play calling/scheme, and lack of player talent. IMO, the ability to create a decent pass rush via DE/OLB is a little more important than getting a shut-down cornerback or a harrison-type S. The rationale is that if the Patriots can't get pressure on the opposing QB, opposing receivers will eventually get open; which can allow average QBs look like Drew Brees. With the draft coming up, and free agency still available, will the Patriots see any success in tackling the White Elephant this year? Or will the Patriots be super conservative, trade down for future picks - and continue the cycle of futility?
    Posted by anonymis[/QUOTE]

    Really think this will be a defensive draft for the Pats. See what they have up their sleeve as far as trades, but I would hope they work on their front 7 first. A good pass rush can make up for a suspect secondary. The only position(s) I would like to see them go after on O is interior offensive lineman. That will hopefully be in the middle rounds unless they can get that center Konz from Wisconsin.
     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: The White Elephant In The Room

    Guy's, if the Hobbit didn't crap his pants and actually caught the ball that hit him in the freaking hands we would be Super Bowl Champions.

    So with that said what this teams needs is a receiver who won't choke at the biggest moment on the biggest stage.  I give you 2 examples Tyree and Manningham.  Two nobody's that delivered championships, at our expense, to their teams.
     
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    Re: The White Elephant In The Room

    In Response to Re: The White Elephant In The Room:
    [QUOTE]Guy's, if the Hobbit didn't crap his pants and actually caught the ball that hit him in the freaking hands we would be Super Bowl Champions. So with that said what this teams needs is a receiver who won't choke at the biggest moment on the biggest stage.  I give you 2 examples Tyree and Manningham.  Two nobody's that delivered championships, at our expense, to their teams.
    Posted by tcal2-[/QUOTE]

    lmao....hobbit....
     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from norichcrybabies. Show norichcrybabies's posts

    Re: The White Elephant In The Room

    In Response to Re: The White Elephant In The Room:
    [QUOTE]In Response to The White Elephant In The Room :      As I've stated numerous times in other threads, BB has been gunning for that "White Elephant" over the past four (4) years. Since 2008, he has spent eleven (11) high draft choices to fix his "D".      The problem with the "D" isn't that BB has ignored the problem...the problem lies with the poor selections the Patriots have made in the draft to fix the "D".      Here's a list of the high draft picks that the Pats have used, attempting to "fix" the defense: 1.) 2011: BB used the 33rd overall pick to select injury prone DB Ras-I Dowling. In so doing, he passed on DE/OLB Jabaal Sheard, and OLB Brooks Reid; 2.) 2010: BB used the 27th overall pick to select CB Devin McCourty...the 53rd overall pick to select bust DE/OLB Jermaine Cunningham...and the 62nd overall pick to take ILB Brandon Spikes; 3.) 2009: BB used the 34th overall pick to take SS Patrick Cung...his 40th overall pick was used on bust DT, Ron Brace...the 41st pick was used on  worthless CB Darius Butler...and the 97th overall pick was wasted on LB Tyrone McKenzie; 4.) 2008: BB used the 10th overall pick on ILB Jerod Mayo...the 62nd overall pick on bust CB, Terrence Wheatley (the guy with a steel rod in his wrist)...and the 78th overall pick on the worthless OLB, Shawn Crable...and pick #129 was wasted on CB Johnathan Wilhite;  5.) 2007: BB used the 24th overall pick to select FS Brandon Meriweather...and pick #127 to select bust DT, Kareem Brown.
    Posted by TexasPat[/QUOTE]


    Dude, notice all the names you been mentionin?  that's a SHYTL0AD 0f names.  And a LOT of plays were made with that LOT (many of which are still playing).  We have a good young D that  they're fixing.  Have been.  Will do.

    A la Pat's, throwing volume at the problem.  And it will get fixed.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from norichcrybabies. Show norichcrybabies's posts

    Re: The White Elephant In The Room

    In Response to Re: The White Elephant In The Room:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The White Elephant In The Room : Dude, notice all the names you been mentionin?  that's a SHYTL0AD 0f names.  And a LOT of plays were made with that LOT (many of which are still playing).  We have a good young D that  they're fixing.  Have been.  Will do. A la Pat's, throwing volume at the problem.  And it will get fixed.
    Posted by norichcrybabies[/QUOTE]


    Oh!  while they throw volume at the D, they still have tb12.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: The White Elephant In The Room

    In Response to Re: The White Elephant In The Room:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The White Elephant In The Room : Dude, notice all the names you been mentionin?  that's a SHYTL0AD 0f names.  And a LOT of plays were made with that LOT (many of which are still playing).

    RESPONSE: A lot of plays were made by these draft failures? McKenzie, Brown, Crable, Wheatley, Wilhite, Butler, and Brace made plays? When...after practice with the cheerleaders?? LOL!!!!  

    We have a good young D that  they're fixing.  Have been.  Will do. A la Pat's, throwing volume at the problem.  And it will get fixed.

    RESPONSE: I tend to agree with you, because I have confidence in BB. But, throwing volume at the problem hasn't worked, and won't work, unless and until the scouting department starts doing a better job of talent evaluation.
    Posted by norichcrybabies[/QUOTE]
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: The White Elephant In The Room

    I guess the elephant is a little smaller now
     

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