The World Turned Upside Down - Kiper Defers to BB

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    The World Turned Upside Down - Kiper Defers to BB

    This morning on Mike and Mike (I know, I know) Mel Kiper, Jr., who knows everything that is worth knowing about drafting football talent and infinitely more than any GM ever thought of knowing, particularly BB, dropped a bombshell.  He said, and I quote:  "I defer to Coach Belichick and his scouting staff on the Tavon Wilson pick."

    How is this possible?  I mean, everyone knows that BB doesn't know squat and destroyed his entire draft by picking Wilson in the 2nd.

    I'm heading for the ledge.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from nyjoseph. Show nyjoseph's posts

    Re: The World Turned Upside Down - Kiper Defers to BB

    Mel knows he can't win on this one.  As much as he has built this image as the draft guru, he knows that savvy football fans won't believe his judgement over BB's.  And down the road he probably hopes BB will share some of his thoughts with him.  Good luck with that Mel.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from justme2. Show justme2's posts

    Re: The World Turned Upside Down - Kiper Defers to BB

    it's a respect thing. mel believes that BB made a mistake taking the kid and he is just deciding not to call him out.. I think BB has earned a bit of that..
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: The World Turned Upside Down - Kiper Defers to BB

    Mel is already on record as saying this was the shocker of the draft to that point, so in three years if Wilson is a bust he's on record saying he didn't agree or if the kids turns into a starting safety he is now on record to saying he knows how good BB is at scouting and although everyone missed on the kid he knew their scouting program was excellent.  


     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: The World Turned Upside Down - Kiper Defers to BB

    Kiper is a knee jerk moron. I do give him credit for his wind tunnel tested hair weave and his ability to memorize, but also his retraction of his initial reaction. Hey, at least he thought about how silly he looked there and realized he's never been a GM and will never be a GM in the NFL. Nor did he play football or nor does he even appear like he was an athlete.

    It appears he's also in the minotiry when it comes to the Pats draft analsysis.

    I've seen many rave and many give NE B+ or A- grades overall. And for good reason.

    This anti-BB crusade  by the general media to the point our own fans have been duped is beyind disturbing.

    What they're saying about Pats

    April, 29, 2012
    Apr 29
    10:30
    PM ET
    Links around the Web that include commentary on the Patriots' draft picks:

    1. One viewpoint -- reaches in 2nd and 3rd round. Dan Pompei's "Sunday Blitz" on the National Football Post website includes comments from anonymous folks from NFL teams. Writes Pompei, "No one is comfortable questioning Bill Belichick’s judgment, but a couple front office men wondered about the Patriots’ second and third round picks. One personnel man said his team had safety Tavon Wilson, the Pats’ second round pick, ranked as a seventh round pick, and defensive end Jake Bequette, the Patriots’ third rounder, ranked as a free agent. 'That was crazy,' he said. It should be noted that the consensus is the Patriots picked very well in round one with the additions of linebacker Dont’a Hightower and defensive end Chandler Jones."

    2. Wilson pick gets panned. Writing on SI.com, Tony Pauline picks his "steals" and "reaches" and Patriots second-round pick Tavon Wilson finds himself in the latter category. "Few teams, if any, considered Wilson draftable, never mind assigning him a second-round grade. Wilson is a nice prospect, yet does not stand out in any single area," Pauline writes.

    3. Grade is a B-minus. Pete Prisco of CBSSports.com gives grades to each team, while breaking things down in categories of "best pick" (Chandler Jones), "questionable move" (Tavon Wilson) and "third-day gem" (Alfonzo Dennard). He gives them a B-minus.

    4. Wait ... make that an "A." John Czarnecki of Foxsports.com grades each team and he puts the Patriots at the head of the class. "Both [first-rounders] should be interesting chess pieces in the New England scheme, especially with Jerod Mayo in the middle. Hightower figures to line up all over the field. ... Illinois safety Tavon Wilson has solid speed and fills other needs, too. ... Arkansas defensive end Jake Bequette is a try-hard rusher with a big motor. Bequette can be effective in certain situationals and impressively worked as a stand-up rusher at the Senior Bowl," he writes.

    5. Wilson a "gamble to remember." Clark Judge of CBSSports.com files his "Judge"ments column and in the category of "gambles to remember," Patriots second-round draft choice Tavon Wilson is listed first.

    6. Patriots rank 4th out of 32. Nate Davis of USA Today ranks all 32 NFL draft classes and puts the Patriots fourth. "Laudable win-now moves for a team seemingly on the cusp of a fourth Super Bowl title," he writes.

    7. AFC powerhouse Patriots get richer. NFL.com's Simon Samano interviews NFL Network analyst Mike Mayock, who calls Patriots first-round picks Chandler Jones and Dont'a Hightower two of his "favorite players in the entire draft."

    8. Patriots "nail" 2012 draft. NFL.com/NFL Network analyst Bucky Brooks places the Patriots in his "nailed it" category for their draft, calling Jones and Hightower "impact players," while adding that seventh-round pick Alfonzo Dennard could be a "hidden gem" if he "regains his focus on and off the field," Brooks writes.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: The World Turned Upside Down - Kiper Defers to BB

    Kiper is just another ESPN talking head. Albeit a fairly knowledgable talking head. I trust the judgement of the man with the rings over him any day of the week. If Kiper was any good he'd be a Super Bowl winning GM (Thompson, Reese). But then that would mean putting his a-- on the line and subjecting it to the same scrutiny he gives the teams he evaluates.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: The World Turned Upside Down - Kiper Defers to BB

    It's a win win for Kiper. By saying he'll defer he admits that he might not have all the data that they have on the kid so if he does turn out well he doesn't look bad and built in an excuse. If Wilson ends up busting then Kiper then they say, I deferred to their scouts thinking they had extra information but I never said I thought they were right.

    Just Kiper covering his butt either way. I might not like Breer but I at least respect that he thought BB reached and said so. Now there might be a reason that he did (ie at that point he had only 2 picks left and it didn't look like they were able to trade back. Additionally they maybe they didn't like anyone at #48 and decided to attack the most pressing need first with a player they felt ranked higher then others. Wilson), BB could of temporarily went insane, or they really did feel like he was the BPA at that moment. We may never know the thinking but overall I think everyone would agree that we had a very solid draft.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: The World Turned Upside Down - Kiper Defers to BB

    <<.....overall I think everyone would agree that we had a very solid draft.  PatsEng>>

    I can't imagine anyone saying that the Pats had anything less.  
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: The World Turned Upside Down - Kiper Defers to BB


    World turned upside down . . . and Kiper's hair is still perfectly in place. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: The World Turned Upside Down - Kiper Defers to BB

    Here's Kiper's problem:  He puts too much stock in his own personal ratings of an NCAA player and then ignores a team like NE and how they rank a player.
    Basically, he should keep relatively quiet on any BB draft choice because he isn't as bright as he thinks he is.  Then he acts offended, ignores any context as to WHY a lower rated player on his board would be chosen, followed by a 12 year old level style temper tantrum, as he scrambles for his paperwork on live tv.  It's actually one of the things I love about watching Kiper.  It's funny.

    He's a geeky type who probably plays in 10 fantasy football leagues and never played football in his life, let alone managed a team. He's like a Mt. Hurt or Babe Parilli type.   They like flash, trendy things, have never really left home and have a very small world.

    What NE wants out of its Safety position is also traditionally very different than most, if not all other teams. Look at Pitt int he playoffs. Ryan Clark goes down and Polamalu looks like Brandon Meriweather on his worst day.

    Meanwhile, BB wants his Safeties to play SS and FS back and forth in man, in zone, up or back, etc, and this requires more than just "he ran a 4.4, has great ball skills and lit it up at a Div 1 school".   If BB thinks he can't get a smart hard working guy in there, he's not going to go for it. This is partly why Meriweather never took the next step here and then was released. Now, he's got a DUI and his career is about to be over.

    Morris Claiborne didn't even take the Wonderlic because he felt he didn't need to. That guy right there belongs in Dallas.  DUmb as a bag of rocks, entitled and not Patriot material, but Kiper doesn't care.

    Speaks volumes.

    Give me character, brains and willingness to improve all day long over combine scores and NCAA level production. I think it's risky to gamble on character and and maturity when you're paying millions.

    Kiper, Snyder and Jerry Jones are also good friends. lol Besides, I think Kiper is ticked off BB has fleeced old friend Ozzie Newsome in the 2010 (Gronk trade up and then Hernandez while Balt took Dickson and Pitta) and now with Hightower, with Balt getting seconds with Upshaw.

    I had Upshaw as someone here simply because I thought Hightower wouldn't be available.

    Yet, Kiper wants to rail on a 2nd rd Safety choice from Illinois? He's a joke.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: The World Turned Upside Down - Kiper Defers to BB

    I don't have any problems with Kiper, or any of the other draft experts.  They watch some film, they give their opinion.  You can take it for what it's worth. 

    But they are entertainers.  They are paid to go on TV, or the radio, or the internet, or whatever and tell you all about the biggest names and what they think.  But nobody is going to watch a segment all about how Joe Smith is the tenth best OT, and if you pick him up in the fourth than he will most likely have a very solid career.  They will talk for days about Andrew Luck, and RGIII and all the other guys the Scouting services rated as top players.

    And all the other guys, they probably just read the scouting report so they know the name when it's said on TV.  They are not going to spend probably any time breaking down video of the scouting services late round prospects, and they certainly aren't going to dig around and see if the scouting services left out any guys that should have been scouted. 

    NFL teams have the resources to do those things, and that's why the experts are rarely correct after the first round on who will be picked.  It's not entertaining to talk about litle known prospects so they don't bother researching them.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: The World Turned Upside Down - Kiper Defers to BB

    Right, but how has Kiper not learned what the Pats like at this point?  It's just dumb to make yoursel look dumb.

    A more normal and professional reaction woudl have been:

    "A bit high for Wilson on raw skills, but BB likes hardworking, smart character guys who can play with versatility at Safety, so that skill set is a good fit in NE."

    That's not what he did.  Again, knee jerking doofus.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: The World Turned Upside Down - Kiper Defers to BB

    And this thread was less directed at Kiper and his ilk and more to those who would assert that those 'experts' would have a better take on a player than BB (or any other NFL GM) and base their draft criticism on that take.  Kiper can dye his hair chartreuse (whatever color that is) for all I care and can spout all the wisdom he wishes; he does after all have a hair stylist to support.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: The World Turned Upside Down - Kiper Defers to BB

    I find it so arrogant. Kiper isn't sitting there doing the workouts, the interviews, the weighing of the skill set aspects or knowing other reasons why any Pats pick is made, or any team for that matter. Just look at how solid NE's last 2 drafts were and their continued upside anyway. This has been since BB got Caserio into his full time role and hired Floyd Reese to help with the finances.

    Barring Jax taking a punter in Round 3 or the Jets continuing to wildly throw darts at the wall every draft, his arrogance is annoying.

    Gee, thanks, Mel for giving the best GM of all time the benefit of the doubt. lmao
    Now all we need is Babe Parilli or Hurlie to swing in here channeling Kiper telling us BB is an average GM.  lol
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: The World Turned Upside Down - Kiper Defers to BB

    How many times did Belichick make Kiper look foolish before he started to defer to him?
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: The World Turned Upside Down - Kiper Defers to BB

    In Response to The World Turned Upside Down - Kiper Defers to BB:
    [QUOTE]This morning on Mike and Mike (I know, I know) Mel Kiper, Jr., who knows everything that is worth knowing about drafting football talent and infinitely more than any GM ever thought of knowing, particularly BB, dropped a bombshell.  He said, and I quote:  "I defer to Coach Belichick and his scouting staff on the Tavon Wilson pick." How is this possible?  I mean, everyone knows that BB doesn't know squat and destroyed his entire draft by picking Wilson in the 2nd. I'm heading for the ledge.
    Posted by ATJ[/QUOTE]

         Kiper hasn't been critical of BB in the past. This Wilson thing is the first time that I've seen him come close to being critical of Belichick.

         I'm still waiting for one person to come forth and logically defend the Wilson pick at #48, with something other than, "If BB did it, it must be right." 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: The World Turned Upside Down - Kiper Defers to BB

    In Response to Re: The World Turned Upside Down - Kiper Defers to BB:
    [QUOTE]In Response to The World Turned Upside Down - Kiper Defers to BB :      Kiper hasn't been critical of BB in the past. This Wilson thing is the first time that I've seen him come close to being critical of Belichick.      I'm still waiting for one person to come forth and logically defend the Wilson pick at #48, with something other than, "If BB did it, it must be right." 
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    Watch Kiper's reaction to the Logan Mankin's pick again...
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: The World Turned Upside Down - Kiper Defers to BB




     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: The World Turned Upside Down - Kiper Defers to BB

    There were people in the draft thread arguing that even if Wilson becomes Ed Reed that the pick wasn't good "value" because he could have been gotten later.  I can't speak for everyone else here, but I think that attitude is insane.  If Wilson even becomes a good player let alone Ed Reed caliber I will be happy with the pick.  Considering the number of guys that bust in every round it's foolish imo to argue that all that matters in evaluating this pick is whether we could have gotten him later (which we don't know for sure).  If he turns into a good player it's a good pick in my book.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: The World Turned Upside Down - Kiper Defers to BB

    In Response to Re: The World Turned Upside Down - Kiper Defers to BB:
    [QUOTE]In Response to The World Turned Upside Down - Kiper Defers to BB :      Kiper hasn't been critical of BB in the past. This Wilson thing is the first time that I've seen him come close to being critical of Belichick.      I'm still waiting for one person to come forth and logically defend the Wilson pick at #48, with something other than, "If BB did it, it must be right." 
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    No disrespect TP, your criticism of the pick unless I'm misunderstanding it, is based on your perception and that of others none of whom were associated with the Pats scouting and selection process.  Unless you were directly involved or know someone who was your criticism doesn't rise much above that of rumor.  Again, unless I'm wrong about the basis of your criticism I don't really feel compelled to defend a process that has withstood the test of time.  Does BB ever miss?  We all know that he does.  Was this a reach or a bad pick?  Only time will tell.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from MoreRings. Show MoreRings's posts

    Re: The World Turned Upside Down - Kiper Defers to BB

    In Response to Re: The World Turned Upside Down - Kiper Defers to BB:
    [QUOTE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zawEx9y4hbg
    Posted by wozzy[/QUOTE]

    Great stuff, Ill never forget it.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from MoreRings. Show MoreRings's posts

    Re: The World Turned Upside Down - Kiper Defers to BB

    In Response to Re: The World Turned Upside Down - Kiper Defers to BB:
    [QUOTE]There were people in the draft thread arguing that even if Wilson becomes Ed Reed that the pick wasn't good "value" because he could have been gotten later.  I can't speak for everyone else here, but I think that attitude is insane.  If Wilson even becomes a good player let alone Ed Reed caliber I will be happy with the pick.  Considering the number of guys that bust in every round it's foolish imo to argue that all that matters in evaluating this pick is whether we could have gotten him later (which we don't know for sure).  If he turns into a good player it's a good pick in my book.
    Posted by pcmIV[/QUOTE]
    If this guy is the next ER it would have been a good pick if we got him in the first rd.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: The World Turned Upside Down - Kiper Defers to BB

    6. Patriots rank 4th out of 32. Nate Davis of USA Today ranks all 32 NFL draft classes and puts the Patriots fourth. "Laudable win-now moves for a team seemingly on the cusp of a fourth Super Bowl title," he writes.

    This analysis stuck out to me.

    Hightower, Bequette, Wilson and Dennard should all help out right away at positions of need for a team that had to fill defensive holes in order to be put over the top when it comes to winning a SB.

    The above 4 guys played A LOT of college football and have known skills that translate to the pro's.. even Wilson, whose skills will be best used on ST's but whose size-quickness-toughness-experience combination can allow him to step in situationally at safety right away.

    I look for Wilson to be an improvement on Brown, Barrett, Ihedigbo next season (and Ebner in that mix as well, althoug he is 100% project). Gregory is the new Sanders. We need Chung to stay healthy. Safety was upgraded

    Dennard, once he gets his criminal charges figured out and head on straight, has the talent to be what Merriweather was to us, only with hopefully more ballhawk skills and less freelancing. I could even see him as the starting FS.

    Hightower is the jack of all trades LB'er who is quicker than Spikes and more explosive/talented than Nink and will be used all over the place and hopefully make the big plays Mayo seems to not make despite being a tackling machine.

    Bequette has a great motor to really get after the QB, he will be used situationally the way Anderson was. Between Scott and Jake (and maybe Cunningham) I think we can repace Anderson no problem now.

    I think Deaderick continues to improve and come into his own and Fanene replaces a lot of what Carter did (AC could be back, 6 wk PUP). Meaning Jones is a LUXURY to this club, the type of young freak athlete rusher we haven't had on a D in years. He may start slower, but  won't be as needed, should be a big impact guy by the end of next season.

    The D got A LOT better, but this also had to do with the non-project experienced guys we added, they may not have tremendous upside, but you have to think they can contribute right away and thats important to a contender.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from patriots44. Show patriots44's posts

    Re: The World Turned Upside Down - Kiper Defers to BB

    I thought Kiper promised to Quit, if Jimmy Clausen did not turn out to be a Great NFL QB
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: The World Turned Upside Down - Kiper Defers to BB

    If Dennard doesn't get arrested last week the Patriots would have had to draft him in the second round at the spot where they chose Wilson! So just flip them and pretend the Pats drafted Dennard in his slotted spot at 48.As for Bequette he had a solid College career and BB probably uses him too try and motivate Cunningham and if it doesn't work he at least has a high motor DE/OLB that he can count on to give max effort on every play.
     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share