The writing is on the wall, bringing early 2000s O back.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    The writing is on the wall, bringing early 2000s O back.

    So bring on Moss and Welker in 2007 and turns into a down field O.  Draft Gronk and AH in 2010 turns into a TE heavy O but between 2000 to 2006 it was big Oline, good defense ball control have Brady pick them apart by giving him enough time to go through his reads clean with RBs pounding the ball down their throats or Faulk catching those screens or passes to the flats.


    Based on what we've seen this far in offseason including the draft all roads point to going back to what got them 3 SBs.  As fans we used to beg for WRs when Moss was gone, now its TEs but if I'm right you don't need another Gronk.  Remember the days of a 6th OL as a blocking TE?  Or sending a LB (Vrable) in as a receiving TE on gimic plays?  


    So they have a 315lb wall at OC now and another mauler at OG drafted.  The TEs seems they will roll with just 2 maybe 3 on the roster.  One way to keep Gronk healthy, keep him in more blocking less over the middle with lots of small DBs going at his knees.


    So an OL with Solder, Mankins, Stork, Halapio, Voll with either Gronk or a decent blocker in Hoo it turns into a hole opening RB dream type game.  So the evolution of Pats O continues IMO, except; we've seen it before.  


     


     


     


     


     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: The writing is on the wall, bringing early 2000s O back.

    In response to Pats7393's comment:



     




    So bring on Moss and Welker in 2007 and turns into a down field O.  Draft Gronk and AH in 2010 turns into a TE heavy O but between 2000 to 2006 it was big Oline, good defense ball control have Brady pick them apart by giving him enough time to go through his reads clean with RBs pounding the ball down their throats or Faulk catching those screens or passes to the flats.




     




    Based on what we've seen this far in offseason including the draft all roads point to going back to what got them 3 SBs.  As fans we used to beg for WRs when Moss was gone, now its TEs but if I'm right you don't need another Gronk.  Remember the days of a 6th OL as a blocking TE?  Or sending a LB (Vrable) in as a receiving TE on gimic plays?  




     




    So they have a 315lb wall at OC now and another mauler at OG drafted.  The TEs seems they will roll with just 2 maybe 3 on the roster.  One way to keep Gronk healthy, keep him in more blocking less over the middle with lots of small DBs going at his knees.




     




    So an OL with Solder, Mankins, Stork, Halapio, Voll with either Gronk or a decent blocker in Hoo it turns into a hole opening RB dream type game.  So the evolution of Pats O continues IMO, except; we've seen it before. 


     




     




     




     




     


    Yes its a little late but I will take it. I think BB tried to get Brady to do too much for the last few years. He asked Brady to carry the team with a passing attack with only 2 weapons (Gronk/Welker) and when we tried to ground and pound it only worked vs the Bills but come postseason our line was Not opening any holes because outside of Mankins and Solder to a degree, they are all finesse, pass blocking types. So while I do like the guys drafted this year I would have liked that change to start a few years back when it was clear our D wasnt up to snuff and the weapons were lacking.



     


     


    I think the conundrum was BB still wanted the pass game to be featured so he stayed with the pass blocking lineman when in reality after 2010, he probably should have shifted focus to a Run first team with Maulers and then once you establish the run, Brady can go off w/playaction and the line would do fine because A.) they started off pushing the D line and B.) they wouldnt be featuring the pass(35+ attempts) Weather or not your line is built to runblock or passblock ALL lineman enjoy Running First to Set the tone and get the D line tired so their rush is less effective when you DO pass.


     


    So now, Im just hoping these changes will have a positive impact while TB is still here. 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from DoNotSleepOnThePats. Show DoNotSleepOnThePats's posts

    Re: The writing is on the wall, bringing early 2000s O back.

    One of the smarter conversations started in here.  Glad to not see another "BB sucks at drafting" thread.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from MoreRings. Show MoreRings's posts

    Re: The writing is on the wall, bringing early 2000s O back.

    Good posts.  Should be interesting to see the ball control offense with Brady play acting of it.  Agree about Brady trying to do to much.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from stegall85. Show stegall85's posts

    Re: The writing is on the wall, bringing early 2000s O back.

    While a lot has to fall into place, in theory they could have the best of all worlds. A more similar approach to the early 2000's but with better personnel in terms of aerial weapons. So if the need arises, the passing game, including downfield is there.

    That requires a healthy Gronk, one other decent pass catching TE and some, hopefully a lot, of progress from the young WR's.

    Ideally you have a broad enough and versatile enough talent base to run whatever type of scheme you want and to change that up as needed. That's a tall order but the most obvious impediment, not enough size and physicality on the interior o-line and arguably depth on the o-line in general, they've tried to address.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: The writing is on the wall, bringing early 2000s O back.

    I'll believe it when I see it man. I've been talking about this for years and we have surely tried to get back to that but ultimately we fall back on Brady's right arm in every big game. 285 pass attempts to 113 rush attempts in 6 straight post season exits dating back to the 07 Super Bowl. Only 67 power runs. 67. We are no longer the Dynasty offense despite the personnel employed. 

    Yes some of this is due to the defense not being as good as it was, but ultimately running the ball and utilizing PA is a choice, and when the going gets tough(Blount with only 5 carries after dominating 3 teams) we start passing.

    Here comes the"Belichick is infallible as a coach but an idiot GM" crowd....

    [object HTMLDivElement]

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazy-world-of-troybrown. Show crazy-world-of-troybrown's posts

    Re: The writing is on the wall, bringing early 2000s O back.

    Forget Defense for a second, 20 and 17 points in SB losses, for one of the most potent Offenses tells me it can be Defensed, and shut down.  Just like Denver this year.

     
  8. This post has been removed.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from stegall85. Show stegall85's posts

    Re: The writing is on the wall, bringing early 2000s O back.

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'll believe it when I see it man. I've been talking about this for years and we have surely tried to get back to that but ultimately we fall back on Brady's right arm in every big game. 285 pass attempts to 113 rush attempts in 6 straight post season exits dating back to the 07 Super Bowl. Only 67 power runs. 67. We are no longer the Dynasty offense despite the personnel employed. 

    Yes some of this is due to the defense not being as good as it was, but ultimately running the ball and utilizing PA is a choice, and when the going gets tough(Blount with only 5 carries after dominating 3 teams) we start passing.

    Here comes the"Belichick is infallible as a coach but an idiot GM" crowd....

    [object HTMLDivElement]

    [/QUOTE]

    I think you hit on the key with the defense. If reasonably healthy the Pats appear on the verge of again being very good on defense. That should hopefully lead to being able to pull back a bit on the throttle on offense and being more willing to gradually impose their will as opposed to acting like they need to always score as quickly as possible. The defense being able to get itself off the field more reliably would create more flexibility in the offensive play-calling.

    They also need to be able to pound the ball when everyone expects them to. They did that at times last year but not consistently enough and that may have been as simple as needing bigger and stronger players in the trenches.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Brady2Welker47. Show Brady2Welker47's posts

    Re: The writing is on the wall, bringing early 2000s O back.

     

    Brady2Welker47

    I can see your point and have learned one thing about BB ..that things is expect the unexpected..

    Would love to see defense relied on like it use to be .....that said Pats need a tall WR to keep defenses honest...they key to pa the key to a great running game is balance...

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from DoNotSleepOnThePats. Show DoNotSleepOnThePats's posts

    Re: The writing is on the wall, bringing early 2000s O back.

    Balance!  T.O.P.!  When the Pats beat the Rams for their first Super Bowl championship, Brady passed 27 times, and the Pats ran the ball 26 times.  Balance!  Run clock, keeps your defense less fatigued! And so forth!

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: The writing is on the wall, bringing early 2000s O back.

    In response to mossad-did-911's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    He also picked up 3 very good RB prospects in the draft and free agency. 

     

    White is a lock to make the roster. But NE also got Roy Finch who probably needs to be groomed via the practice squad for a year. The other guy i really like is Stephen Houston who's size and skill set reminds me of Arian Foster.

    [/QUOTE]


    First time I am even hearing of this S.Houston kid. Now that I know we really have 3 new backs in the fold this year, I would say its almost a given that Ridley and Vareen will Not be retained after the 14' season. I like Vareen when he is healthy but if White shows he can do the same and is somewhat durable, BB is going with the new rookie w/4th round contract over resigning Vareen to decent money(see Woody last year going to S.D)

    Ridley? They likely offer some sort of fair deal after 14' season IF he does well this year and holds on the to the ball and the Houston kid does not impress. Or maybe they sign him during but most likely BB starts over like he usually does and saves money for Solder, and some impeding free agents for 15'.   I dont think McCourty getting re-signed is a no brainer either cuz there are lots of safeties going into camp. McCourty, Harmon, Wilson, Ebner, Kanorris, Chung, S.Gary, J.Thomas,T.Hawkins and not to mention talks of Ryan and Browner possibly playing safety. Sounds like Open competition and BB looking to upgrade. Over 11 different guys,.....   Bye Bye McCourty. If other GMs consider him a top FS, See Ya!  Not worth top money IMO to Just be a center fielder.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: The writing is on the wall, bringing early 2000s O back.

    In response to Brady2Welker47's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Brady2Welker47

    I can see your point and have learned one thing about BB ..that things is expect the unexpected..

    Would love to see defense relied on like it use to be .....that said Pats need a tall WR to keep defenses honest...they key to pa the key to a great running game is balance...

    [/QUOTE]


    I think thats why BB got Lafell. The rookies are bigger than usual(Dobson, KT) but he likely didnt want to depend soley on them making a possible 2nd year jump never mind Dobsons bad foot. I hope Lafell presents another big target so Brady doesnt feel the need to force it to Gronk.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: The writing is on the wall, bringing early 2000s O back.

    I think you are rushing/ over estimating these rooks. No one drafted by the Pats this year is ready for regular snaps, but Stark still might force his way in due to $$$ owed other players. 

    Rookies make rookie mistakes

    OL mistakes get QB's killed

    wont happen here while TB is QB

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcherbrook. Show Fletcherbrook's posts

    Re: The writing is on the wall, bringing early 2000s O back.

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think you are rushing/ over estimating these rooks. No one drafted by the Pats this year is ready for regular snaps, but Stark still might force his way in due to $$$ owed other players. 

    Rookies make rookie mistakes

    OL mistakes get QB's killed

    wont happen here while TB is QB

    [/QUOTE]

    Good point. Aside from Easley, and even he is a question mark, none of this class is universally expected to contribute soon. Even then I'm not sure they are viewed as anything more than depth...ever. Pump the brakes a bit.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: The writing is on the wall, bringing early 2000s O back.

    In response to Pats7393's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    So bring on Moss and Welker in 2007 and turns into a down field O.  Draft Gronk and AH in 2010 turns into a TE heavy O but between 2000 to 2006 it was big Oline, good defense ball control have Brady pick them apart by giving him enough time to go through his reads clean with RBs pounding the ball down their throats or Faulk catching those screens or passes to the flats.

    Based on what we've seen this far in offseason including the draft all roads point to going back to what got them 3 SBs.  As fans we used to beg for WRs when Moss was gone, now its TEs but if I'm right you don't need another Gronk.  Remember the days of a 6th OL as a blocking TE?  Or sending a LB (Vrable) in as a receiving TE on gimic plays?  

    So they have a 315lb wall at OC now and another mauler at OG drafted.  The TEs seems they will roll with just 2 maybe 3 on the roster.  One way to keep Gronk healthy, keep him in more blocking less over the middle with lots of small DBs going at his knees.

    So an OL with Solder, Mankins, Stork, Halapio, Voll with either Gronk or a decent blocker in Hoo it turns into a hole opening RB dream type game.  So the evolution of Pats O continues IMO, except; we've seen it before.  

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]

     

    Or just the D. Get a D that can get off the field and create turn overs in the post season and we'd be good to go

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from SportsGenius1. Show SportsGenius1's posts

    Re: The writing is on the wall, bringing early 2000s O back.

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Pats7393's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    So bring on Moss and Welker in 2007 and turns into a down field O.  Draft Gronk and AH in 2010 turns into a TE heavy O but between 2000 to 2006 it was big Oline, good defense ball control have Brady pick them apart by giving him enough time to go through his reads clean with RBs pounding the ball down their throats or Faulk catching those screens or passes to the flats.

    Based on what we've seen this far in offseason including the draft all roads point to going back to what got them 3 SBs.  As fans we used to beg for WRs when Moss was gone, now its TEs but if I'm right you don't need another Gronk.  Remember the days of a 6th OL as a blocking TE?  Or sending a LB (Vrable) in as a receiving TE on gimic plays?  

    So they have a 315lb wall at OC now and another mauler at OG drafted.  The TEs seems they will roll with just 2 maybe 3 on the roster.  One way to keep Gronk healthy, keep him in more blocking less over the middle with lots of small DBs going at his knees.

    So an OL with Solder, Mankins, Stork, Halapio, Voll with either Gronk or a decent blocker in Hoo it turns into a hole opening RB dream type game.  So the evolution of Pats O continues IMO, except; we've seen it before.  

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]

     

    Or just the D. Get a D that can get off the field and create turn overs in the post season and we'd be good to go

    [/QUOTE] PE sorry your boy JDD hasn't signed with the Patriots. You could be right about the Running game coming back to New England, one things for sure they won't be lobbing the ball all over the field. The D could very well be the best in football provided all the key pieces play up to max potential. The additions of Revis and Browner are huge! Although they could now start an all Rutgers secondary if need be. Dmac,Ryan, Harmon and Deering! The guy who is in big trouble is Tavon Wilson he better bring his A game.


     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjri37. Show ghostofjri37's posts

    Re: The writing is on the wall, bringing early 2000s O back.

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think you are rushing/ over estimating these rooks. No one drafted by the Pats this year is ready for regular snaps, but Stark still might force his way in due to $$$ owed other players. 

    Rookies make rookie mistakes

    OL mistakes get QB's killed

    wont happen here while TB is QB

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm not saying it's going to happen but depending on the rookie O-linemen level of understanding of the blocking schemes there is precedent for rookie linemen to start in NE. Koppen 2003, Light 2001, Mankins 2005, Vollmer started 8 games in 09…. This will be great camp for competition among the O-linemen… I could see Stork winning the job or taking over at center sometime during the year.

    If healthy I could see a line of Solder, Mankins, Stork, Cannon, Seabass.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from SportsGenius1. Show SportsGenius1's posts

    Re: The writing is on the wall, bringing early 2000s O back.

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think you are rushing/ over estimating these rooks. No one drafted by the Pats this year is ready for regular snaps, but Stark still might force his way in due to $$$ owed other players. 

    Rookies make rookie mistakes

    OL mistakes get QB's killed

    wont happen here while TB is QB

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm not saying it's going to happen but depending on the rookie O-linemen level of understanding of the blocking schemes there is precedent for rookie linemen to start in NE. Koppen 2003, Light 2001, Mankins 2005, Vollmer started 8 games in 09…. This will be great camp for competition among the O-linemen… I could see Stork winning the job or taking over at center sometime during the year.

    If healthy I could see a line of Solder, Mankins, Stork, Cannon, Seabass.

    [/QUOTE] Actually I think Stork could take Wendell's job based upon skill set. However chances are based on knowledge of the playbook Wendell may start the season as the Center.


     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from DougIrwin. Show DougIrwin's posts

    Re: The writing is on the wall, bringing early 2000s O back.

    Thank god. Rein Brady in once and for all.  It has got to stop. We wasted years and years of him trying to seek the ultimate glories of throwing for SB rings.

    No more.

    No more.

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjri37. Show ghostofjri37's posts

    Re: The writing is on the wall, bringing early 2000s O back.

    In response to SportsGenius1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think you are rushing/ over estimating these rooks. No one drafted by the Pats this year is ready for regular snaps, but Stark still might force his way in due to $$$ owed other players. 

    Rookies make rookie mistakes

    OL mistakes get QB's killed

    wont happen here while TB is QB

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm not saying it's going to happen but depending on the rookie O-linemen level of understanding of the blocking schemes there is precedent for rookie linemen to start in NE. Koppen 2003, Light 2001, Mankins 2005, Vollmer started 8 games in 09…. This will be great camp for competition among the O-linemen… I could see Stork winning the job or taking over at center sometime during the year.

    If healthy I could see a line of Solder, Mankins, Stork, Cannon, Seabass.

    [/QUOTE] Actually I think Stork could take Wendell's job based upon skill set. However chances are based on knowledge of the playbook Wendell may start the season as the Center.

    [/QUOTE]
    I think Wendell has tough time making this team out of camp especially if they decide to move Connelly back to center.

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: The writing is on the wall, bringing early 2000s O back.

    In response to DougIrwin's comment:



     




    Thank god. Rein Brady in once and for all.  It has got to stop. We wasted years and years of him trying to seek the ultimate glories of throwing for SB rings.




    No more.




    No more.




     




     






    [object HTMLDivElement]


     


     


    Are you REALLY this f'n stupid?


     


    Are you REALLY so F'n obsessed and sick that you can't get through one thread without inflicting us with your disease?


     


    Realize this, you rusty trombone player, if TB is that bad then BB is worse.


     


    If he is sticking with and extending a crappy QB year after year then he has to be the most negligent, stupid coach alive or dead.


     


    That's how logical, normal people think.


     


    Even Fat Rex was smart enough to get rid of Sanchez. 


     


    You are saying BB is more stupid than REX.  You are just too ignorant to realize it, despite being told, over and over.


     


    Luckily, you are the stupid and negligent one.


     


    Now go practice your trombone.  Your bb blowup is waiting for you to play.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: The writing is on the wall, bringing early 2000s O back.

    "So an OL with Solder, Mankins, Stork, Halapio, Voll with either Gronk or a decent blocker in Hoo it turns into a hole opening RB dream type game.  So the evolution of Pats O continues IMO, except; we've seen it before."  

    ...And the OP amongst others, make some very interesting points-  Probably A#1 being:  This could very well BE, the least "deficient" roster that the Patriots have ever had, In any given year.  THAT is BB's mainstay, NO enormous strengths...yet zero weaknesses.  The Roster is so at least B+ pure & pure deep positionally, And on both sides of the ball.

    O-  That'll be a BIG Offense with that line...  Now you add in WRs in Lafell & Edelman/Amendola & Thompkins/Dobson...and that looks like a better & deeper scenario of Branch + Brown + Givens.  Add in Gronk & Hoom and THAT too, is a better scenario of Graham + idk-the smaller white guy we had from the 'fins (lol).  Add in Ridley/Bolden + Vareen/James White & at least the 1st 1 is better than Antwain Smith + Faulk...and placed together, probably so given Stevan Ridley.  And that O-Line with Solder/Mankins/Stork/Halapio/Voll + Cannon/Connoly/Fleming/Kline/Wendell...is pretty darn Big to start, then deep...pretty young overall yet either experienced & skilled, or just young & big with potential for good solid talent.  I hope for 1 thing...1 thing-  That Belichick's decision to not get a complimentary big-back to Ridley, means just this:  That he WILL use him and give him the carries of a #1 RB (unless NE picks up a big vet back after cuts).  THAT is key to me actually believing that we'll go back to ball-control, and when they crowd a bit forward, Brady will cut'em up with LaFell/Edelman & Thompkins/Dobson + Gronk in the intermediate game.

    I MUST believe that we won't be a 1 dimensional O any longer...

    The D is sooo deep and solid too.  The skill & pure above average depth on that DL is fantastic.  Players NE cuts on the DL, WILL find a roster spot somewhere else:  Armstead, Bequette, Buchanon, C Jones, Nink, Wilfork, Easley, Forston, Kelly, Siliga, Vellano, & Moore=12 guys with only 4 on the field at once.  LB ain't deep, but skilled- Collins, Mayo & Hightower.  And the Secondary's just a freakshow with DMC, Revis, Browner, Dennard, Arrington & Logan Ryan...Ebner/Wilson/Chung/Harmon & new guy Jemea Thomas.   Gotta think that this will be an attacking, straight in your face Defense...they got the skill and depth to go go all at 'em up front, and the skill and depth to push 'em around and have them runaround til they run outta gas with NE's Secondary. 

    Must, must, must believe that BB won't make this a big OL up front...then place a smaller back in their for eye-candy and essentially shotgun draw plays, and then just attempt to LOOK big to try to fool them, yet just try to get them with quick strike intermediate passing all day long with- LaFell, Gronk, Edelman, Dobson/Thompkins.  It'll work...but it'll actually win us the SB IF we dedicate to looking big, And then running big AND slicing them up with what could be a nasty intermediate pass threat IF we don't go 1 dimensional and try to live and die just off of that alone.

    ...Gotta believe BB finally knows & remembers what DID keep NE totally "deficient-less" on O and D so that no team could game plan for us when we won SBs (because they over-favored nothing).  The roster sure appears as if he sees this=No extreme specialties of over-favored strengths...Instead/Rather=ZERO Weaknesses.

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: The writing is on the wall, bringing early 2000s O back.

    I hear you guys but even though there are no trophies to show for it, the high flying 2007-2013 Patriots were highly successful and extremely fun to watch.


    2000-2006  75-37 12-2 playoffs 3-0 SB
    2007-2013  88-24  6-6 playoffs 0-2 SB


    12-2 in the playoffs is astonishing, 6-6 is very good only bested by the Ravens and Giants. The bottom line results haven't been there lately but I argue that's only because of execution not philosophy.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: The writing is on the wall, bringing early 2000s O back.

    The best projected lineup for me if things go well and everyone stays healthy is Kline at center, Mankins, Halapio at guard with Vollmer and Solder at tackle.  Cannon and Wendell providing depth.  I may be wrong but Connolly will be cut for $ reasons, otherwise I'd like to keep him for depth if he'll take a pay cut?

     

Share