These are the facts

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: These are the facts

    In response to RockScully's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to palookaski's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to RockScully's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dreighver's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Why is there so much hate and aggression on this forum? We can all disagree at times, but the rate at which people attack one another is ridiculous. We're all Pats fans, right? And the Pats went 12-4 and got a first-round bye, right? Why is everyone so tense and angry?

    [/QUOTE]

    SB 42, blame BB for the witch hunt known as Spygate, Brady blows out a leg, Pats are in transition 1 and done, Pats inexperienced and rebuilding 1 and one, Pats lose SB.

    Through all of this, the only thing that some fans have cared about is if Brady can come close to his 2007 stats record. It's almost like one group of fans only cares about THAT and THAT only v.s. realizing how tough it is to be locking down the divsion every year and BB laying this incredible foundation around Brady. It's not like Brady waves a magic wand or moves mountains by himself.

    And, it's INCREDIBLY annoying to hear our own fans think that Brady made BB. That's what Jets fans and other jealous fans do because Brady is "nicer" than BB.  BB left the Jets at the altar, wisely so, so the Jets fan premise is "Brady made BB".  How covenient!  Sure, the best coach of all time somehow was made by Brady even though his defensive genius and obvious cap genius is a big reason to provide this backdrop. It's pathetic. And, our own fans take on that Jets based rhetoric as tthey've bashed BB for 3 straight years here almost as if he's the reason why our offense didn't play better in SB 42 or 46.

    I could give two squats about that or continuing to look for scapegoats, mostly towards BB who didn't deliver a top flight veteran D to help Brady be better on offense for a SB win.

    Our fans are VERY spoiled here and have ZERO perspective. They also have this weird fixation with being jealous of these media darling teams every year who clearly ain't winning a SB.

    The Jets in 2010, last year it was Houston or SF, this year it's Seattle. 

    Finally, their anger also really stems from Brady not playing as well in the postseason like he used to, so when it's pointed out to them, they lash out.  It's like father in American Beauty who is homophobic, but is actually gay. lol

    Those are our Ballwashers here.

    The only thing that can cure is for Brady to deliver as everyone knows he can. It's the one thing we've been missing in the playoffs, most of the time recently, for a long time.

    [/QUOTE]

    I find your comment incredibly amusing. The man whom your answering has 4 ? in his comment. You answer him with the name BRADY 11 times. So Brady is the root cause of all the mans 4 questions of, Why the, Hate and Agression , anger, Attacks and tenseness????

    Is that correct? It's been Brady all along? Not the Trolls at all?

     

    [/QUOTE]


    No.   It's the fact we're looking at Brady's last SB in in February of 2005.    He's been in 2 SBs since then, and under-performed.

    That's what it means.

    Some of our Irrationals/Washers, while not trolls, behave like trolls, but are actually sick Pats fans who don't get that we aren't winning a SB with an under-performing offense in an offensive era.

    As a Pats fan, this is not amusing to me whatsoever.

    [/QUOTE]

    I could not agree with this more. In fact, in the playoffs in general, Brady has under performed since the last Super Bowl victory. Early in his career (when the Pats won 3 in 4 years) Brady played consistently from the regular season to the playoffs.

    Since he started putting up the big regular season number (2007-present). He has not been able to recreate his regular season success when the playoffs begin.

    Brady regular season 2001-2004 passer rating: 87.5

    Brady post season 2001-2004 passer rating: 88.9

    Brady regular season 2007-2012 passer rating: 105.5

    Brady post season 2007-2012 passer rating: 86.1

    He has literally become a worse post season than regular season QB.

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from csylvia79. Show csylvia79's posts

    Re: These are the facts

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to RockScully's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to palookaski's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to RockScully's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dreighver's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Why is there so much hate and aggression on this forum? We can all disagree at times, but the rate at which people attack one another is ridiculous. We're all Pats fans, right? And the Pats went 12-4 and got a first-round bye, right? Why is everyone so tense and angry?

    [/QUOTE]

    SB 42, blame BB for the witch hunt known as Spygate, Brady blows out a leg, Pats are in transition 1 and done, Pats inexperienced and rebuilding 1 and one, Pats lose SB.

    Through all of this, the only thing that some fans have cared about is if Brady can come close to his 2007 stats record. It's almost like one group of fans only cares about THAT and THAT only v.s. realizing how tough it is to be locking down the divsion every year and BB laying this incredible foundation around Brady. It's not like Brady waves a magic wand or moves mountains by himself.

    And, it's INCREDIBLY annoying to hear our own fans think that Brady made BB. That's what Jets fans and other jealous fans do because Brady is "nicer" than BB.  BB left the Jets at the altar, wisely so, so the Jets fan premise is "Brady made BB".  How covenient!  Sure, the best coach of all time somehow was made by Brady even though his defensive genius and obvious cap genius is a big reason to provide this backdrop. It's pathetic. And, our own fans take on that Jets based rhetoric as tthey've bashed BB for 3 straight years here almost as if he's the reason why our offense didn't play better in SB 42 or 46.

    I could give two squats about that or continuing to look for scapegoats, mostly towards BB who didn't deliver a top flight veteran D to help Brady be better on offense for a SB win.

    Our fans are VERY spoiled here and have ZERO perspective. They also have this weird fixation with being jealous of these media darling teams every year who clearly ain't winning a SB.

    The Jets in 2010, last year it was Houston or SF, this year it's Seattle. 

    Finally, their anger also really stems from Brady not playing as well in the postseason like he used to, so when it's pointed out to them, they lash out.  It's like father in American Beauty who is homophobic, but is actually gay. lol

    Those are our Ballwashers here.

    The only thing that can cure is for Brady to deliver as everyone knows he can. It's the one thing we've been missing in the playoffs, most of the time recently, for a long time.

    [/QUOTE]

    I find your comment incredibly amusing. The man whom your answering has 4 ? in his comment. You answer him with the name BRADY 11 times. So Brady is the root cause of all the mans 4 questions of, Why the, Hate and Agression , anger, Attacks and tenseness????

    Is that correct? It's been Brady all along? Not the Trolls at all?

     

    [/QUOTE]


    No.   It's the fact we're looking at Brady's last SB in in February of 2005.    He's been in 2 SBs since then, and under-performed.

    That's what it means.

    Some of our Irrationals/Washers, while not trolls, behave like trolls, but are actually sick Pats fans who don't get that we aren't winning a SB with an under-performing offense in an offensive era.

    As a Pats fan, this is not amusing to me whatsoever.

    [/QUOTE]

    I could not agree with this more. In fact, in the playoffs in general, Brady has under performed since the last Super Bowl victory. Early in his career (when the Pats won 3 in 4 years) Brady played consistently from the regular season to the playoffs.

    Since he started putting up the big regular season number (2007-present). He has not been able to recreate his regular season success when the playoffs begin.

    Brady regular season 2001-2004 passer rating: 87.5

    Brady post season 2001-2004 passer rating: 88.9

    Brady regular season 2007-2012 passer rating: 105.5

    Brady post season 2007-2012 passer rating: 86.1

    He has literally become a worse post season than regular season QB.

    [/QUOTE]

    How much does his rating go down due to the O-line under performing and losing some of his best targets in the play-offs.  What is the percentage  sack, hurry up and hits on the QB in the play-off compaired to the average during the season?  What is his time on pocket to throw vs. how long it is taking the wr to get open.  Has anyone here ever sat in a player and coaches meeting when these thing are looked at and discussed?  There is so much context that these posters all throw at Brady feet in a team game.  Although a QB is the King in the chest match if the rest of the pieces aren't holding up thier end a great QB is useless. 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: These are the facts

    In response to shenanigan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Tom Brady is the greatest QB of all time

    Bill Belichick is the greatest coach of all time

    The Patriots offense is historically great

    The Patriot defense has improved and will be a factor.

     

    These are facts that any Patriot fan will agree with-

    step up and identify yourself as a jealous troll if you disagree.

    [/QUOTE]

    So that is the definition of troll on these boards?

    Brady is not the greatest QB of all-time. In fact, looking at the numbers he is not even the best QB in the NFL right now. He finished this year 11th in completion %, 4th in yards, 4th in TDs and 8th in yards/attempt. The only thing he lead the league in was Int %, and he finished tied with RG III for that. For me, when he lost the second Super Bowl he lost the chance to pass Montana as the greatest of all-time. 

    Belichick is not the greatest coach of all-time. Have you heard of Bill Walsh or Joe Gibbs? He lost two Super Bowls to Tom Coughlin when he was allegedly had the vastly superior team each time. Again, like the Brady he is one of the best, but to me the losses stop him from being THE greatest.

    The Patriots offense is historically great. It also was in 2007 and 2010, but neither time did it lead to a championship.

    The final point is the lone one where I agree. I think this defense is significantly improved from last season and I expect that to be the difference. This team is capable of playing a game without Brady playing his absolute best. The additions of Jones, Hightower and now Talib make this a vastly improved defense. 

    So if I am a troll because I do not agree that Brady and BB are the "greatest of all time", but I still think this team will win the Super Bowl then I guess that is what I am...

     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from csylvia79. Show csylvia79's posts

    Re: These are the facts

    In response to RockScully's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to csylvia79's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to RockScully's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to palookaski's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to RockScully's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dreighver's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Why is there so much hate and aggression on this forum? We can all disagree at times, but the rate at which people attack one another is ridiculous. We're all Pats fans, right? And the Pats went 12-4 and got a first-round bye, right? Why is everyone so tense and angry?

    [/QUOTE]

    SB 42, blame BB for the witch hunt known as Spygate, Brady blows out a leg, Pats are in transition 1 and done, Pats inexperienced and rebuilding 1 and one, Pats lose SB.

    Through all of this, the only thing that some fans have cared about is if Brady can come close to his 2007 stats record. It's almost like one group of fans only cares about THAT and THAT only v.s. realizing how tough it is to be locking down the divsion every year and BB laying this incredible foundation around Brady. It's not like Brady waves a magic wand or moves mountains by himself.

    And, it's INCREDIBLY annoying to hear our own fans think that Brady made BB. That's what Jets fans and other jealous fans do because Brady is "nicer" than BB.  BB left the Jets at the altar, wisely so, so the Jets fan premise is "Brady made BB".  How covenient!  Sure, the best coach of all time somehow was made by Brady even though his defensive genius and obvious cap genius is a big reason to provide this backdrop. It's pathetic. And, our own fans take on that Jets based rhetoric as tthey've bashed BB for 3 straight years here almost as if he's the reason why our offense didn't play better in SB 42 or 46.

    I could give two squats about that or continuing to look for scapegoats, mostly towards BB who didn't deliver a top flight veteran D to help Brady be better on offense for a SB win.

    Our fans are VERY spoiled here and have ZERO perspective. They also have this weird fixation with being jealous of these media darling teams every year who clearly ain't winning a SB.

    The Jets in 2010, last year it was Houston or SF, this year it's Seattle. 

    Finally, their anger also really stems from Brady not playing as well in the postseason like he used to, so when it's pointed out to them, they lash out.  It's like father in American Beauty who is homophobic, but is actually gay. lol

    Those are our Ballwashers here.

    The only thing that can cure is for Brady to deliver as everyone knows he can. It's the one thing we've been missing in the playoffs, most of the time recently, for a long time.

    [/QUOTE]

    I find your comment incredibly amusing. The man whom your answering has 4 ? in his comment. You answer him with the name BRADY 11 times. So Brady is the root cause of all the mans 4 questions of, Why the, Hate and Agression , anger, Attacks and tenseness????

    Is that correct? It's been Brady all along? Not the Trolls at all?

     

    [/QUOTE]


    No.   It's the fact we're looking at Brady's last SB in in February of 2005.    He's been in 2 SBs since then, and under-performed.

    That's what it means.

    Some of our Irrationals/Washers, while not trolls, behave like trolls, but are actually sick Pats fans who don't get that we aren't winning a SB with an under-performing offense in an offensive era.

    As a Pats fan, this is not amusing to me whatsoever.

    [/QUOTE]

    I could not agree with this more. In fact, in the playoffs in general, Brady has under performed since the last Super Bowl victory. Early in his career (when the Pats won 3 in 4 years) Brady played consistently from the regular season to the playoffs.

    Since he started putting up the big regular season number (2007-present). He has not been able to recreate his regular season success when the playoffs begin.

    Brady regular season 2001-2004 passer rating: 87.5

    Brady post season 2001-2004 passer rating: 88.9

    Brady regular season 2007-2012 passer rating: 105.5

    Brady post season 2007-2012 passer rating: 86.1

    He has literally become a worse post season than regular season QB.

    [/QUOTE]

    How much does his rating go down due to the O-line under performing and losing some of his best targets in the play-offs.  What is the percentage  sack, hurry up and hits on the QB in the play-off compaired to the average during the season?  What is his time on pocket to throw vs. how long it is taking the wr to get open.  Has anyone here ever sat in a player and coaches meeting when these thing are looked at and discussed?  There is so much context that these posters all throw at Brady feet in a team game.  Although a QB is the King in the chest match if the rest of the pieces aren't holding up thier end a great QB is useless. 

    [/QUOTE]


    Or how much does it go down that he prefers the shotgun and runs our offense?

    [/QUOTE]

    More than not they go to the shotgun because the run wasn't working or they are behind, but again you ignore that. Just like you ignore the O-line not doing well in the playoffs and key people being hurt.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from csylvia79. Show csylvia79's posts

    Re: These are the facts

    I'm also not giving Brady a pass he hasn't played as great as can be, I would Grade him a C but other parts of the offense I might even grade lower since 2005.  The way you talk Rusty to "me" it feels like you place all the blame on Brady.  I think everyone from top down has equally to blame for the SB losses.  Personally I think the O.C. called some of the worst games in those play-off losses.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccnsd. Show ccnsd's posts

    Re: These are the facts

    Here is a list of other Qb's whose postseason QBR is less (common because the competition is usually better) then their regular season QBR.These are all Hall of Famers or future hall of famers:

    Steve Young, Peyton Manning, Ben Roethlisberger, Otto Graham (by more than 20 points), Dan Marino, Roger Staubach, Len Dawson, John Elway, Unitas, Dan Fouts etc.

     There are some QBs whose rating do go up. Bart Star's is up more than 20 points in the post season. He is probably the greatest playoff QB ever. We still know this is a joke stat though because Mark Sanchez has one of the best post season QB ratings ever (the 6th best ever). so yes Frnk you are acting like a troll.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from palookaski. Show palookaski's posts

    Re: These are the facts

    In response to RockScully's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to palookaski's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to RockScully's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dreighver's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Why is there so much hate and aggression on this forum? We can all disagree at times, but the rate at which people attack one another is ridiculous. We're all Pats fans, right? And the Pats went 12-4 and got a first-round bye, right? Why is everyone so tense and angry?

    [/QUOTE]

    SB 42, blame BB for the witch hunt known as Spygate, Brady blows out a leg, Pats are in transition 1 and done, Pats inexperienced and rebuilding 1 and one, Pats lose SB.

    Through all of this, the only thing that some fans have cared about is if Brady can come close to his 2007 stats record. It's almost like one group of fans only cares about THAT and THAT only v.s. realizing how tough it is to be locking down the divsion every year and BB laying this incredible foundation around Brady. It's not like Brady waves a magic wand or moves mountains by himself.

    And, it's INCREDIBLY annoying to hear our own fans think that Brady made BB. That's what Jets fans and other jealous fans do because Brady is "nicer" than BB.  BB left the Jets at the altar, wisely so, so the Jets fan premise is "Brady made BB".  How covenient!  Sure, the best coach of all time somehow was made by Brady even though his defensive genius and obvious cap genius is a big reason to provide this backdrop. It's pathetic. And, our own fans take on that Jets based rhetoric as tthey've bashed BB for 3 straight years here almost as if he's the reason why our offense didn't play better in SB 42 or 46.

    I could give two squats about that or continuing to look for scapegoats, mostly towards BB who didn't deliver a top flight veteran D to help Brady be better on offense for a SB win.

    Our fans are VERY spoiled here and have ZERO perspective. They also have this weird fixation with being jealous of these media darling teams every year who clearly ain't winning a SB.

    The Jets in 2010, last year it was Houston or SF, this year it's Seattle. 

    Finally, their anger also really stems from Brady not playing as well in the postseason like he used to, so when it's pointed out to them, they lash out.  It's like father in American Beauty who is homophobic, but is actually gay. lol

    Those are our Ballwashers here.

    The only thing that can cure is for Brady to deliver as everyone knows he can. It's the one thing we've been missing in the playoffs, most of the time recently, for a long time.

    [/QUOTE]

    I find your comment incredibly amusing. The man whom your answering has 4 ? in his comment. You answer him with the name BRADY 11 times. So Brady is the root cause of all the mans 4 questions of, Why the, Hate and Agression , anger, Attacks and tenseness????

    Is that correct? It's been Brady all along? Not the Trolls at all?

    [/QUOTE]


    No.   It's the fact we're looking at Brady's last SB in in February of 2005.    He's been in 2 SBs since then, and under-performed.

    That's what it means.

    Some of our Irrationals/Washers, while not trolls, behave like trolls, but are actually sick Pats fans who don't get that we aren't winning a SB with an under-performing offense in an offensive era.

    As a Pats fan, this is not amusing to me whatsoever.

    [/QUOTE]


    OK Russ, so your answer to the mans questions as to what causes all the  Hate and Agression , anger, Attacks and tenseness on the forum is the fact that Brady simply does not play up to par in Superbowls? So if the Superbowls were won then there would be less  Hate and Agression , anger, Attacks and tenseness,  on the board right?

    See I'm trying to be a Rational here. So now I see (you say) it's an "underperforming Offense" which is the culprit, not Brady alone?  Now I understand that it was not the coaches decisions or Defense just the underforming O. We've all been through the SB discussion a thousand times here with stats etc. already, so no need.

    This thread is about Trolls, so anyone who disagrees that it was something  other than the underperforming Offense in PO and SB games behaves just like a TROLL. Think I got it now.

    Have a good night ... ;-)

     

     

     

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: These are the facts

    In response to shenanigan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Tom Brady is the greatest QB of all time

    Bill Belichick is the greatest coach of all time

    The Patriots offense is historically great

    The Patriot defense has improved and will be a factor.

     

    These are facts that any Patriot fan will agree with-

    step up and identify yourself as a jealous troll if you disagree.

     

    Troll List

    Rusty

    Jints

    Underdog

    Leon

    Phatrex

    [/QUOTE]


    first: debatable

    second: debatable

    third: true

    fourth: you hope

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: These are the facts

    In response to shenanigan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Tom Brady is the greatest QB of all time

    Bill Belichick is the greatest coach of all time

    The Patriots offense is historically great

    The Patriot defense has improved and will be a factor.

     

    These are facts that any Patriot fan will agree with-

    step up and identify yourself as a jealous troll if you disagree.

     

    Troll List

    Rusty

    Jints

    Underdog

    Leon

    Phatrex

    [/QUOTE]


    btw thanks for putting me on your list....i am honored

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: These are the facts

    In response to csylvia79's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to RockScully's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to palookaski's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to RockScully's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dreighver's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Why is there so much hate and aggression on this forum? We can all disagree at times, but the rate at which people attack one another is ridiculous. We're all Pats fans, right? And the Pats went 12-4 and got a first-round bye, right? Why is everyone so tense and angry?

    [/QUOTE]

    SB 42, blame BB for the witch hunt known as Spygate, Brady blows out a leg, Pats are in transition 1 and done, Pats inexperienced and rebuilding 1 and one, Pats lose SB.

    Through all of this, the only thing that some fans have cared about is if Brady can come close to his 2007 stats record. It's almost like one group of fans only cares about THAT and THAT only v.s. realizing how tough it is to be locking down the divsion every year and BB laying this incredible foundation around Brady. It's not like Brady waves a magic wand or moves mountains by himself.

    And, it's INCREDIBLY annoying to hear our own fans think that Brady made BB. That's what Jets fans and other jealous fans do because Brady is "nicer" than BB.  BB left the Jets at the altar, wisely so, so the Jets fan premise is "Brady made BB".  How covenient!  Sure, the best coach of all time somehow was made by Brady even though his defensive genius and obvious cap genius is a big reason to provide this backdrop. It's pathetic. And, our own fans take on that Jets based rhetoric as tthey've bashed BB for 3 straight years here almost as if he's the reason why our offense didn't play better in SB 42 or 46.

    I could give two squats about that or continuing to look for scapegoats, mostly towards BB who didn't deliver a top flight veteran D to help Brady be better on offense for a SB win.

    Our fans are VERY spoiled here and have ZERO perspective. They also have this weird fixation with being jealous of these media darling teams every year who clearly ain't winning a SB.

    The Jets in 2010, last year it was Houston or SF, this year it's Seattle. 

    Finally, their anger also really stems from Brady not playing as well in the postseason like he used to, so when it's pointed out to them, they lash out.  It's like father in American Beauty who is homophobic, but is actually gay. lol

    Those are our Ballwashers here.

    The only thing that can cure is for Brady to deliver as everyone knows he can. It's the one thing we've been missing in the playoffs, most of the time recently, for a long time.

    [/QUOTE]

    I find your comment incredibly amusing. The man whom your answering has 4 ? in his comment. You answer him with the name BRADY 11 times. So Brady is the root cause of all the mans 4 questions of, Why the, Hate and Agression , anger, Attacks and tenseness????

    Is that correct? It's been Brady all along? Not the Trolls at all?

     

    [/QUOTE]


    No.   It's the fact we're looking at Brady's last SB in in February of 2005.    He's been in 2 SBs since then, and under-performed.

    That's what it means.

    Some of our Irrationals/Washers, while not trolls, behave like trolls, but are actually sick Pats fans who don't get that we aren't winning a SB with an under-performing offense in an offensive era.

    As a Pats fan, this is not amusing to me whatsoever.

    [/QUOTE]

    I could not agree with this more. In fact, in the playoffs in general, Brady has under performed since the last Super Bowl victory. Early in his career (when the Pats won 3 in 4 years) Brady played consistently from the regular season to the playoffs.

    Since he started putting up the big regular season number (2007-present). He has not been able to recreate his regular season success when the playoffs begin.

    Brady regular season 2001-2004 passer rating: 87.5

    Brady post season 2001-2004 passer rating: 88.9

    Brady regular season 2007-2012 passer rating: 105.5

    Brady post season 2007-2012 passer rating: 86.1

    He has literally become a worse post season than regular season QB.

    [/QUOTE]

    How much does his rating go down due to the O-line under performing and losing some of his best targets in the play-offs.  What is the percentage  sack, hurry up and hits on the QB in the play-off compaired to the average during the season?  What is his time on pocket to throw vs. how long it is taking the wr to get open.  Has anyone here ever sat in a player and coaches meeting when these thing are looked at and discussed?  There is so much context that these posters all throw at Brady feet in a team game.  Although a QB is the King in the chest match if the rest of the pieces aren't holding up thier end a great QB is useless. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Is he solely responsible for the team losing the two Super Bowls or being one-and-done in the other two seasons? No. But the fact is he does create up to his regular season numbers in the playoffs. The whole team has been played poorly in those games, but if he gets the credit for wins he deserves blame for losses. The historically great offense has not been able to do it in the post season. The whole team builds up ridiculous stats in the regular season that allow people to talk about how the are among the greatest of all time, but most of that is running the score up against bad teams, those numbers are meaningless in the playoffs when only good teams are left.

    Last year, the scored 32.1 points per game, and then put up 23 in the AFC Championship and 17 in the Super Bowl. In 2010, they averaged 32.4 and put up 21 versus the Jets. I will give them a pass in 2009 when Welker was out, but in 2007 the scored a 36.8 points per game and finished up with totals of 21 and 14 versus the Chargers and Giants.

    The point is that all of the gaudy regular season numbers are meaningless unless he (and the offense) can do it in the post-season, and it is those regular season number over the past six seasons that put Brady in the discussion of the best of all-time. Honestly, would you rather have Brady setting records like he does now, or winning Super Bowls like he did 10 years ago?

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: These are the facts

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dreighver's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Why is there so much hate and aggression on this forum? We can all disagree at times, but the rate at which people attack one another is ridiculous. We're all Pats fans, right? And the Pats went 12-4 and got a first-round bye, right? Why is everyone so tense and angry?

    [/QUOTE]


    One word answer...

     

    Rusty.

     

    That's why he has been banned a dozen plus times.

    [/QUOTE]

    +100000

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: These are the facts

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to shenanigan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Tom Brady is the greatest QB of all time

    Bill Belichick is the greatest coach of all time

    The Patriots offense is historically great

    The Patriot defense has improved and will be a factor.

     

    These are facts that any Patriot fan will agree with-

    step up and identify yourself as a jealous troll if you disagree.

    [/QUOTE]

    So that is the definition of troll on these boards?

    Brady is not the greatest QB of all-time. In fact, looking at the numbers he is not even the best QB in the NFL right now. He finished this year 11th in completion %, 4th in yards, 4th in TDs and 8th in yards/attempt. The only thing he lead the league in was Int %, and he finished tied with RG III for that. For me, when he lost the second Super Bowl he lost the chance to pass Montana as the greatest of all-time. 

    Belichick is not the greatest coach of all-time. Have you heard of Bill Walsh or Joe Gibbs? He lost two Super Bowls to Tom Coughlin when he was allegedly had the vastly superior team each time. Again, like the Brady he is one of the best, but to me the losses stop him from being THE greatest.

    The Patriots offense is historically great. It also was in 2007 and 2010, but neither time did it lead to a championship.

    The final point is the lone one where I agree. I think this defense is significantly improved from last season and I expect that to be the difference. This team is capable of playing a game without Brady playing his absolute best. The additions of Jones, Hightower and now Talib make this a vastly improved defense. 

    So if I am a troll because I do not agree that Brady and BB are the "greatest of all time", but I still think this team will win the Super Bowl then I guess that is what I am...

    [/QUOTE]

    Thank you for identifying yourself as a troll.  The fact is those statements are subjective and depending on who you are a fan of will go either way.  SF fans think Walsh was the greatest coach and Montana the greatest QB, Miami fans think its Shula and Marino, and Pats fans would believe in their own team.  No, you are not a Pats fan.  The good thing is you've figured it out now so you can focus your attention on being miserable person that nobody wants to be around.  

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: These are the facts

    In response to shenanigan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to shenanigan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Tom Brady is the greatest QB of all time

    Bill Belichick is the greatest coach of all time

    The Patriots offense is historically great

    The Patriot defense has improved and will be a factor.

     

    These are facts that any Patriot fan will agree with-

    step up and identify yourself as a jealous troll if you disagree.

    [/QUOTE]

    So that is the definition of troll on these boards?

    Brady is not the greatest QB of all-time. In fact, looking at the numbers he is not even the best QB in the NFL right now. He finished this year 11th in completion %, 4th in yards, 4th in TDs and 8th in yards/attempt. The only thing he lead the league in was Int %, and he finished tied with RG III for that. For me, when he lost the second Super Bowl he lost the chance to pass Montana as the greatest of all-time. 

    Belichick is not the greatest coach of all-time. Have you heard of Bill Walsh or Joe Gibbs? He lost two Super Bowls to Tom Coughlin when he was allegedly had the vastly superior team each time. Again, like the Brady he is one of the best, but to me the losses stop him from being THE greatest.

    The Patriots offense is historically great. It also was in 2007 and 2010, but neither time did it lead to a championship.

    The final point is the lone one where I agree. I think this defense is significantly improved from last season and I expect that to be the difference. This team is capable of playing a game without Brady playing his absolute best. The additions of Jones, Hightower and now Talib make this a vastly improved defense. 

    So if I am a troll because I do not agree that Brady and BB are the "greatest of all time", but I still think this team will win the Super Bowl then I guess that is what I am...

    [/QUOTE]

    Thank you for identifying yourself as a troll.  The fact is those statements are subjective and depending on who you are a fchanges will go either way.  SF fans think Walsh was the greatest coach and Montana the greatest QB, Miami fans think its Shula and Marino, and Pats fans would believe in their own team.  No, you are not a Pats fan.  The good thing is you've figured it out now so you can focus your attention on being miserable person that nobody wants to be around.  

    [/QUOTE]

    +100000

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: These are the facts

    In response to ccnsd's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Here is a list of other Qb's whose postseason QBR is less (common because the competition is usually better) then their regular season QBR.These are all Hall of Famers or future hall of famers:

    Steve Young, Peyton Manning, Ben Roethlisberger, Otto Graham (by more than 20 points), Dan Marino, Roger Staubach, Len Dawson, John Elway, Unitas, Dan Fouts etc.

     There are some QBs whose rating does go up. Bart Star's is up more than 20 points in the post season. He is probably the greatest playoff QB ever. We still know this is a joke because Mark Sanchez has one of the best post season QB ratings ever (the 6th best ever). so yes Frnk you are acting like a troll.

    [/QUOTE]

    I will always maintain that Brady's two Super Bowl losses will forever keep him from passing Montana as the greatest QB of all time. 4-0 in the Super Bowl with 11 TDs and 0 picks will keep Montana in that seat until some one repeats that, but does it one better.

    True that most QBs ratings go down in the playoffs. My point was that Brady's was consistent early in his career, but over the past six season his playoffs rating is 20 points lower than his regular season. 

    I still think Brady is an elite QB in the modern NFL. I still think he is one of the best ever to play the position. My point is that putting up signicantly lower numbers in the playoffs than the regular season is a large part of the reason this team has not hoisted the Lombardi trophy since 2005.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: These are the facts

    In response to shenanigan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to shenanigan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Tom Brady is the greatest QB of all time

    Bill Belichick is the greatest coach of all time

    The Patriots offense is historically great

    The Patriot defense has improved and will be a factor.

     

    These are facts that any Patriot fan will agree with-

    step up and identify yourself as a jealous troll if you disagree.

    [/QUOTE]

    So that is the definition of troll on these boards?

    Brady is not the greatest QB of all-time. In fact, looking at the numbers he is not even the best QB in the NFL right now. He finished this year 11th in completion %, 4th in yards, 4th in TDs and 8th in yards/attempt. The only thing he lead the league in was Int %, and he finished tied with RG III for that. For me, when he lost the second Super Bowl he lost the chance to pass Montana as the greatest of all-time. 

    Belichick is not the greatest coach of all-time. Have you heard of Bill Walsh or Joe Gibbs? He lost two Super Bowls to Tom Coughlin when he was allegedly had the vastly superior team each time. Again, like the Brady he is one of the best, but to me the losses stop him from being THE greatest.

    The Patriots offense is historically great. It also was in 2007 and 2010, but neither time did it lead to a championship.

    The final point is the lone one where I agree. I think this defense is significantly improved from last season and I expect that to be the difference. This team is capable of playing a game without Brady playing his absolute best. The additions of Jones, Hightower and now Talib make this a vastly improved defense. 

    So if I am a troll because I do not agree that Brady and BB are the "greatest of all time", but I still think this team will win the Super Bowl then I guess that is what I am...

    [/QUOTE]

    Thank you for identifying yourself as a troll.  The fact is those statements are subjective and depending on who you are a fan of will go either way.  SF fans think Walsh was the greatest coach and Montana the greatest QB, Miami fans think its Shula and Marino, and Pats fans would believe in their own team.  No, you are not a Pats fan.  The good thing is you've figured it out now so you can focus your attention on being miserable person that nobody wants to be around.  

    [/QUOTE]

    I disagree with your definition of a fan. Being a fan of a team does not mean that you throw out rational judgment. I am not a 49ers fan. I actually hated them in the 80's, but I still think what Montana did in four Super Bowls has yet to be matched. I have never been a Redskins fan, but I think that Joe Gibbs three Super Bowl victories with three different QBs is a unmatched by an NFL coach before or after.

    So if you do not think your players and coaches are the "greatest of all-time" you cannot be a fan of that team. You sound like a much more miserable person than I am. 

    So who do Cleveland Brown or San Diego Chargers fans think are the greatest coach and QB's of all time Otto Graham and Paul Brown or Dan Founts and Don Coryell. In your world, there is no objective ways to judge who are the best everyone just says their favorite teams players or coaches and who ever yells the loudest wins?

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccnsd. Show ccnsd's posts

    Re: These are the facts

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ccnsd's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Here is a list of other Qb's whose postseason QBR is less (common because the competition is usually better) then their regular season QBR.These are all Hall of Famers or future hall of famers:

    Steve Young, Peyton Manning, Ben Roethlisberger, Otto Graham (by more than 20 points), Dan Marino, Roger Staubach, Len Dawson, John Elway, Unitas, Dan Fouts etc.

     There are some QBs whose rating does go up. Bart Star's is up more than 20 points in the post season. He is probably the greatest playoff QB ever. We still know this is a joke because Mark Sanchez has one of the best post season QB ratings ever (the 6th best ever). so yes Frnk you are acting like a troll.

    [/QUOTE]

    I will always maintain that Brady's two Super Bowl losses will forever keep him from passing Montana as the greatest QB of all time. 4-0 in the Super Bowl with 11 TDs and 0 picks will keep Montana in that seat until some one repeats that, but does it one better.

    True that most QBs ratings go down in the playoffs. My point was that Brady's was consistent early in his career, but over the past six season his playoffs rating is 20 points lower than his regular season. 

    I still think Brady is an elite QB in the modern NFL. I still think he is one of the best ever to play the position. My point is that putting up signicantly lower numbers in the playoffs than the regular season is a large part of the reason this team has not hoisted the Lombardi trophy since 2005.

    [/QUOTE]


    If Welker catches that pass last year Brady most likely wins another super bowl MVP (Woodhead seems to be the only other choice) despite not playing a great game. If Merriweather or Samuel (much harder chance) catches the interception in the Giants final drive Brady probably wins another MVP without really playing a great game. Your numbers show Brady plays the same as he always did in the playoffs but they no longer win super bowls, why do you think that is? I'll tell you why i think it is because they no longer have a great defense. They won super bowls because of the defense primarily except for the one against Carolina.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: These are the facts

    In response to ccnsd's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ccnsd's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Here is a list of other Qb's whose postseason QBR is less (common because the competition is usually better) then their regular season QBR.These are all Hall of Famers or future hall of famers:

    Steve Young, Peyton Manning, Ben Roethlisberger, Otto Graham (by more than 20 points), Dan Marino, Roger Staubach, Len Dawson, John Elway, Unitas, Dan Fouts etc.

     There are some QBs whose rating does go up. Bart Star's is up more than 20 points in the post season. He is probably the greatest playoff QB ever. We still know this is a joke because Mark Sanchez has one of the best post season QB ratings ever (the 6th best ever). so yes Frnk you are acting like a troll.

    [/QUOTE]

    I will always maintain that Brady's two Super Bowl losses will forever keep him from passing Montana as the greatest QB of all time. 4-0 in the Super Bowl with 11 TDs and 0 picks will keep Montana in that seat until some one repeats that, but does it one better.

    True that most QBs ratings go down in the playoffs. My point was that Brady's was consistent early in his career, but over the past six season his playoffs rating is 20 points lower than his regular season. 

    I still think Brady is an elite QB in the modern NFL. I still think he is one of the best ever to play the position. My point is that putting up signicantly lower numbers in the playoffs than the regular season is a large part of the reason this team has not hoisted the Lombardi trophy since 2005.

    [/QUOTE]


    If Welker catches that pass last year Brady most likely wins another super bowl MVP (Woodhead seems to be the only other choice) despite not playing a great game. If Merriweather or Samuel (much harder chance) catches the interception in the Giants final drive Brady probably wins another MVP without really playing a great game. Your numbers show Brady plays the same as he always did in the playoffs but they no longer win super bowls, why do you think that is? I'll tell you why i think it is because they no longer have a grat defense. They won super bowls because of the defense primarily except for the one against Carolina.

    [/QUOTE]

    I do not disagree about the Welker catch and missed interceptions, but like all plays that did not happen will will never know what would have happened if they turned out different. Last year iff Lee Evans held onto the ball two weeks earlier - the Patriots are not in the Super Bowl - possibly the same thing if Cundiff hits the FG to end regulation. Those are things that can be argued everyday for ever. Maybe Welker catches the ball and the Patriots and they still do not score. If Vinatieri misses any of half a dozen FGs, the Patriots are never considered a dynasty to start with...

    The thing about Brady playing the same way in he always has is that the average QB rating has gone up in that time. In 2003, Brady was tenth in the NFL with an 85.9 passer rating. This year he would have been 17th with that same number. 

    I just want him to be consistent. The teams that have won the last several Super Bowls

    Eli Manning 2011 - Regular Season 92.9 / Post Season 103.3

    Aaron Rodgers 2010 - Regular Season 101.2 / Post Season 109.8

    Drew Brees 2009 - Regular Season 109.6 / Post Season 117.0

    Roethlisberger 2008 - Regular Season 80.1 / Post Season 91.6

    Eli Manning 2007 - Regular Season 73.9 / Post Season 95.7

    All of these guys played better in the post-season. Brees lead the league in passer rating 2009 and still got better in the post-season. Rodgers went up in 2010 despite playing 3 top 5 defenses (Atlanta, Chicago and Pittsburgh) on his championship run.

    The last guy to win a Super Bowl and have a statistically worse post-season than regular season was Peyton, and hasn't the fact that he under performs when the pressure is on been why we always believe he is overrated?

    I do agree with you that the Patriots won Super Bowls primarily because of their defense. Until 2007, the Patriots defense was consistently the better part of the team. I also think this defense is good enough to carry the Patriots to a championship this season. However, the offense still has to do it's part. It does not have to put up 35 points a game like it did in the regular season, but if Brady puts up a game like he did last year versus the Ravens (22 for 36, 0 TDs, 2 INTs, 57.5 rating) I do not think this team can beat the Broncos in the AFC Championship game in Denver. He will need to play well for this team to win.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccnsd. Show ccnsd's posts

    Re: These are the facts

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ccnsd's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ccnsd's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Here is a list of other Qb's whose postseason QBR is less (common because the competition is usually better) then their regular season QBR.These are all Hall of Famers or future hall of famers:

    Steve Young, Peyton Manning, Ben Roethlisberger, Otto Graham (by more than 20 points), Dan Marino, Roger Staubach, Len Dawson, John Elway, Unitas, Dan Fouts etc.

     There are some QBs whose rating does go up. Bart Star's is up more than 20 points in the post season. He is probably the greatest playoff QB ever. We still know this is a joke because Mark Sanchez has one of the best post season QB ratings ever (the 6th best ever). so yes Frnk you are acting like a troll.

    [/QUOTE]

    I will always maintain that Brady's two Super Bowl losses will forever keep him from passing Montana as the greatest QB of all time. 4-0 in the Super Bowl with 11 TDs and 0 picks will keep Montana in that seat until some one repeats that, but does it one better.

    True that most QBs ratings go down in the playoffs. My point was that Brady's was consistent early in his career, but over the past six season his playoffs rating is 20 points lower than his regular season. 

    I still think Brady is an elite QB in the modern NFL. I still think he is one of the best ever to play the position. My point is that putting up signicantly lower numbers in the playoffs than the regular season is a large part of the reason this team has not hoisted the Lombardi trophy since 2005.

    [/QUOTE]


    If Welker catches that pass last year Brady most likely wins another super bowl MVP (Woodhead seems to be the only other choice) despite not playing a great game. If Merriweather or Samuel (much harder chance) catches the interception in the Giants final drive Brady probably wins another MVP without really playing a great game. Your numbers show Brady plays the same as he always did in the playoffs but they no longer win super bowls, why do you think that is? I'll tell you why i think it is because they no longer have a grat defense. They won super bowls because of the defense primarily except for the one against Carolina.

    [/QUOTE]

    I do not disagree about the Welker catch and missed interceptions, but like all plays that did not happen will will never know what would have happened if they turned out different. Last year iff Lee Evans held onto the ball two weeks earlier - the Patriots are not in the Super Bowl - possibly the same thing if Cundiff hits the FG to end regulation. Those are things that can be argued everyday for ever. Maybe Welker catches the ball and the Patriots and they still do not score. If Vinatieri misses any of half a dozen FGs, the Patriots are never considered a dynasty to start with...

    The thing about Brady playing the same way in he always has is that the average QB rating has gone up in that time. In 2003, Brady was tenth in the NFL with an 85.9 passer rating. This year he would have been 17th with that same number. 

    I just want him to be consistent. The teams that have won the last several Super Bowls

    Eli Manning 2011 - Regular Season 92.9 / Post Season 103.3

    Aaron Rodgers 2010 - Regular Season 101.2 / Post Season 109.8

    Drew Brees 2009 - Regular Season 109.6 / Post Season 117.0

    Roethlisberger 2008 - Regular Season 80.1 / Post Season 91.6

    Eli Manning 2007 - Regular Season 73.9 / Post Season 95.7

    All of these guys played better in the post-season. Brees lead the league in passer rating 2009 and still got better in the post-season. Rodgers went up in 2010 despite playing 3 top 5 defenses (Atlanta, Chicago and Pittsburgh) on his championship run.

    The last guy to win a Super Bowl and have a statistically worse post-season than regular season was Peyton, and hasn't the fact that he under performs when the pressure is on been why we always believe he is overrated?

    I do agree with you that the Patriots won Super Bowls primarily because of their defense. Until 2007, the Patriots defense was consistently the better part of the team. I also think this defense is good enough to carry the Patriots to a championship this season. However, the offense still has to do it's part. It does not have to put up 35 points a game like it did in the regular season, but if Brady puts up a game like he did last year versus the Ravens (22 for 36, 0 TDs, 2 INTs, 57.5 rating) I do not think this team can beat the Broncos in the AFC Championship game in Denver. He will need to play well for this team to win.

    [/QUOTE]

    I think Brady was fine against the Ravens last year which had a great defense. The Pats came back in the 4th quarter to take the lead after Gronkowski's injury with a huge 4th down td run by Brady. Evans did not drop the pass it was clearly karate chopped out of his hands and most players would have dropped it under those circumstances. Passer rating in the playoffs is based on many things. If Brady played the Pats defense he would post huge numbers but he doesn't get that chance. The 49ers dropped two easy interceptions so Eli's QBR gets inflated (plus he got to play the Pats). Post seasen win % is much more important than post season QBR. Otto Graham one of the greatest post season QB's ever (9-3) has one of the worst QBRs ever (-23 points) because the competition was a lot tougher. Drew Brees is great but his career post season other then his one super bowl run is 1-4 with at least 3 of the losses being major upsets in their first playoff game. So whats better? Brees great QBR rating with horrible upset losses or Brady's 5  super bowl appearences in basically the same time frame with one horrible playoff upset (Jets 2010). Sanchez's post season QBR is amazing (the game against the Pats defense is the primary reason why) yet no super bowl appearences despite a great defense.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: These are the facts

    In response to ccnsd's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ccnsd's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ccnsd's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Here is a list of other Qb's whose postseason QBR is less (common because the competition is usually better) then their regular season QBR.These are all Hall of Famers or future hall of famers:

    Steve Young, Peyton Manning, Ben Roethlisberger, Otto Graham (by more than 20 points), Dan Marino, Roger Staubach, Len Dawson, John Elway, Unitas, Dan Fouts etc.

     There are some QBs whose rating does go up. Bart Star's is up more than 20 points in the post season. He is probably the greatest playoff QB ever. We still know this is a joke because Mark Sanchez has one of the best post season QB ratings ever (the 6th best ever). so yes Frnk you are acting like a troll.

    [/QUOTE]

    I will always maintain that Brady's two Super Bowl losses will forever keep him from passing Montana as the greatest QB of all time. 4-0 in the Super Bowl with 11 TDs and 0 picks will keep Montana in that seat until some one repeats that, but does it one better.

    True that most QBs ratings go down in the playoffs. My point was that Brady's was consistent early in his career, but over the past six season his playoffs rating is 20 points lower than his regular season. 

    I still think Brady is an elite QB in the modern NFL. I still think he is one of the best ever to play the position. My point is that putting up signicantly lower numbers in the playoffs than the regular season is a large part of the reason this team has not hoisted the Lombardi trophy since 2005.

    [/QUOTE]


    If Welker catches that pass last year Brady most likely wins another super bowl MVP (Woodhead seems to be the only other choice) despite not playing a great game. If Merriweather or Samuel (much harder chance) catches the interception in the Giants final drive Brady probably wins another MVP without really playing a great game. Your numbers show Brady plays the same as he always did in the playoffs but they no longer win super bowls, why do you think that is? I'll tell you why i think it is because they no longer have a grat defense. They won super bowls because of the defense primarily except for the one against Carolina.

    [/QUOTE]

    I do not disagree about the Welker catch and missed interceptions, but like all plays that did not happen will will never know what would have happened if they turned out different. Last year iff Lee Evans held onto the ball two weeks earlier - the Patriots are not in the Super Bowl - possibly the same thing if Cundiff hits the FG to end regulation. Those are things that can be argued everyday for ever. Maybe Welker catches the ball and the Patriots and they still do not score. If Vinatieri misses any of half a dozen FGs, the Patriots are never considered a dynasty to start with...

    The thing about Brady playing the same way in he always has is that the average QB rating has gone up in that time. In 2003, Brady was tenth in the NFL with an 85.9 passer rating. This year he would have been 17th with that same number. 

    I just want him to be consistent. The teams that have won the last several Super Bowls

    Eli Manning 2011 - Regular Season 92.9 / Post Season 103.3

    Aaron Rodgers 2010 - Regular Season 101.2 / Post Season 109.8

    Drew Brees 2009 - Regular Season 109.6 / Post Season 117.0

    Roethlisberger 2008 - Regular Season 80.1 / Post Season 91.6

    Eli Manning 2007 - Regular Season 73.9 / Post Season 95.7

    All of these guys played better in the post-season. Brees lead the league in passer rating 2009 and still got better in the post-season. Rodgers went up in 2010 despite playing 3 top 5 defenses (Atlanta, Chicago and Pittsburgh) on his championship run.

    The last guy to win a Super Bowl and have a statistically worse post-season than regular season was Peyton, and hasn't the fact that he under performs when the pressure is on been why we always believe he is overrated?

    I do agree with you that the Patriots won Super Bowls primarily because of their defense. Until 2007, the Patriots defense was consistently the better part of the team. I also think this defense is good enough to carry the Patriots to a championship this season. However, the offense still has to do it's part. It does not have to put up 35 points a game like it did in the regular season, but if Brady puts up a game like he did last year versus the Ravens (22 for 36, 0 TDs, 2 INTs, 57.5 rating) I do not think this team can beat the Broncos in the AFC Championship game in Denver. He will need to play well for this team to win.

    [/QUOTE]

    I think Brady was fine against the Ravens last year which had a great defense. The Pats came back in the 4th quarter to take the lead after Gronkowski's injury with a huge 4th down td run by Brady. Evans did not drop the pass it was clearly karate chopped out of his hands and most players would have dropped it under those circumstances. Passer rating in the playoffs is based on many things. If Brady played the Pats defense he would post huge numbers but he doesn't get that chance. The 49ers dropped two easy interceptions so Eli's QBR gets inflated (plus he got to play the Pats). Post seasen win % is much more important than post season QBR. Otto Graham one of the greatest post season QB's ever (9-3) has one of the worst QBRs ever (-23 points) because the competition was a lot tougher. Drew Brees is great but his career post season other then his one super bowl run is 1-4 with at least 3 of the losses being major upsets in their first playoff game. So whats better? Brees great QBR rating with horrible upset losses or Brady's 5  super bowl appearences in basically the same time frame with one horrible playoff upset (Jets 2010). Sanchez's post season QBR is amazing (the game against the Pats defense is the primary reason why) yet no super bowl appearences despite a great defense.

    [/QUOTE]


    how was otto graham's competition "much tougher"?

    besides myth and nostalgic bs i mean

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccnsd. Show ccnsd's posts

    Re: These are the facts

    In response to 42AND46's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ccnsd's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ccnsd's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ccnsd's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Here is a list of other Qb's whose postseason QBR is less (common because the competition is usually better) then their regular season QBR.These are all Hall of Famers or future hall of famers:

    Steve Young, Peyton Manning, Ben Roethlisberger, Otto Graham (by more than 20 points), Dan Marino, Roger Staubach, Len Dawson, John Elway, Unitas, Dan Fouts etc.

     There are some QBs whose rating does go up. Bart Star's is up more than 20 points in the post season. He is probably the greatest playoff QB ever. We still know this is a joke because Mark Sanchez has one of the best post season QB ratings ever (the 6th best ever). so yes Frnk you are acting like a troll.

    [/QUOTE]

    I will always maintain that Brady's two Super Bowl losses will forever keep him from passing Montana as the greatest QB of all time. 4-0 in the Super Bowl with 11 TDs and 0 picks will keep Montana in that seat until some one repeats that, but does it one better.

    True that most QBs ratings go down in the playoffs. My point was that Brady's was consistent early in his career, but over the past six season his playoffs rating is 20 points lower than his regular season. 

    I still think Brady is an elite QB in the modern NFL. I still think he is one of the best ever to play the position. My point is that putting up signicantly lower numbers in the playoffs than the regular season is a large part of the reason this team has not hoisted the Lombardi trophy since 2005.

    [/QUOTE]


    If Welker catches that pass last year Brady most likely wins another super bowl MVP (Woodhead seems to be the only other choice) despite not playing a great game. If Merriweather or Samuel (much harder chance) catches the interception in the Giants final drive Brady probably wins another MVP without really playing a great game. Your numbers show Brady plays the same as he always did in the playoffs but they no longer win super bowls, why do you think that is? I'll tell you why i think it is because they no longer have a grat defense. They won super bowls because of the defense primarily except for the one against Carolina.

    [/QUOTE]

    I do not disagree about the Welker catch and missed interceptions, but like all plays that did not happen will will never know what would have happened if they turned out different. Last year iff Lee Evans held onto the ball two weeks earlier - the Patriots are not in the Super Bowl - possibly the same thing if Cundiff hits the FG to end regulation. Those are things that can be argued everyday for ever. Maybe Welker catches the ball and the Patriots and they still do not score. If Vinatieri misses any of half a dozen FGs, the Patriots are never considered a dynasty to start with...

    The thing about Brady playing the same way in he always has is that the average QB rating has gone up in that time. In 2003, Brady was tenth in the NFL with an 85.9 passer rating. This year he would have been 17th with that same number. 

    I just want him to be consistent. The teams that have won the last several Super Bowls

    Eli Manning 2011 - Regular Season 92.9 / Post Season 103.3

    Aaron Rodgers 2010 - Regular Season 101.2 / Post Season 109.8

    Drew Brees 2009 - Regular Season 109.6 / Post Season 117.0

    Roethlisberger 2008 - Regular Season 80.1 / Post Season 91.6

    Eli Manning 2007 - Regular Season 73.9 / Post Season 95.7

    All of these guys played better in the post-season. Brees lead the league in passer rating 2009 and still got better in the post-season. Rodgers went up in 2010 despite playing 3 top 5 defenses (Atlanta, Chicago and Pittsburgh) on his championship run.

    The last guy to win a Super Bowl and have a statistically worse post-season than regular season was Peyton, and hasn't the fact that he under performs when the pressure is on been why we always believe he is overrated?

    I do agree with you that the Patriots won Super Bowls primarily because of their defense. Until 2007, the Patriots defense was consistently the better part of the team. I also think this defense is good enough to carry the Patriots to a championship this season. However, the offense still has to do it's part. It does not have to put up 35 points a game like it did in the regular season, but if Brady puts up a game like he did last year versus the Ravens (22 for 36, 0 TDs, 2 INTs, 57.5 rating) I do not think this team can beat the Broncos in the AFC Championship game in Denver. He will need to play well for this team to win.

    [/QUOTE]

    I think Brady was fine against the Ravens last year which had a great defense. The Pats came back in the 4th quarter to take the lead after Gronkowski's injury with a huge 4th down td run by Brady. Evans did not drop the pass it was clearly karate chopped out of his hands and most players would have dropped it under those circumstances. Passer rating in the playoffs is based on many things. If Brady played the Pats defense he would post huge numbers but he doesn't get that chance. The 49ers dropped two easy interceptions so Eli's QBR gets inflated (plus he got to play the Pats). Post seasen win % is much more important than post season QBR. Otto Graham one of the greatest post season QB's ever (9-3) has one of the worst QBRs ever (-23 points) because the competition was a lot tougher. Drew Brees is great but his career post season other then his one super bowl run is 1-4 with at least 3 of the losses being major upsets in their first playoff game. So whats better? Brees great QBR rating with horrible upset losses or Brady's 5  super bowl appearences in basically the same time frame with one horrible playoff upset (Jets 2010). Sanchez's post season QBR is amazing (the game against the Pats defense is the primary reason why) yet no super bowl appearences despite a great defense.

    [/QUOTE]


    how was otto graham's competition "much tougher"?

    besides myth and nostalgic bs i mean

    [/QUOTE]


    Easy question. He only played one playoff game most years which means he got none of those wild card games against undeserving playoff teams. Twice he had to win a play in game because the Browns tied for the pennant (no tie breakers back then).  

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: These are the facts

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to shenanigan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to shenanigan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Tom Brady is the greatest QB of all time

    Bill Belichick is the greatest coach of all time

    The Patriots offense is historically great

    The Patriot defense has improved and will be a factor.

     

    These are facts that any Patriot fan will agree with-

    step up and identify yourself as a jealous troll if you disagree.

    [/QUOTE]

    So that is the definition of troll on these boards?

    Brady is not the greatest QB of all-time. In fact, looking at the numbers he is not even the best QB in the NFL right now. He finished this year 11th in completion %, 4th in yards, 4th in TDs and 8th in yards/attempt. The only thing he lead the league in was Int %, and he finished tied with RG III for that. For me, when he lost the second Super Bowl he lost the chance to pass Montana as the greatest of all-time. 

    Belichick is not the greatest coach of all-time. Have you heard of Bill Walsh or Joe Gibbs? He lost two Super Bowls to Tom Coughlin when he was allegedly had the vastly superior team each time. Again, like the Brady he is one of the best, but to me the losses stop him from being THE greatest.

    The Patriots offense is historically great. It also was in 2007 and 2010, but neither time did it lead to a championship.

    The final point is the lone one where I agree. I think this defense is significantly improved from last season and I expect that to be the difference. This team is capable of playing a game without Brady playing his absolute best. The additions of Jones, Hightower and now Talib make this a vastly improved defense. 

    So if I am a troll because I do not agree that Brady and BB are the "greatest of all time", but I still think this team will win the Super Bowl then I guess that is what I am...

    [/QUOTE]

    Thank you for identifying yourself as a troll.  The fact is those statements are subjective and depending on who you are a fan of will go either way.  SF fans think Walsh was the greatest coach and Montana the greatest QB, Miami fans think its Shula and Marino, and Pats fans would believe in their own team.  No, you are not a Pats fan.  The good thing is you've figured it out now so you can focus your attention on being miserable person that nobody wants to be around.  

    [/QUOTE]

    I disagree with your definition of a fan. Being a fan of a team does not mean that you throw out rational judgment. I am not a 49ers fan. I actually hated them in the 80's, but I still think what Montana did in four Super Bowls has yet to be matched. I have never been a Redskins fan, but I think that Joe Gibbs three Super Bowl victories with three different QBs is a unmatched by an NFL coach before or after.

    So if you do not think your players and coaches are the "greatest of all-time" you cannot be a fan of that team. You sound like a much more miserable person than I am. 

    So who do Cleveland Brown or San Diego Chargers fans think are the greatest coach and QB's of all time Otto Graham and Paul Brown or Dan Founts and Don Coryell. In your world, there is no objective ways to judge who are the best everyone just says their favorite teams players or coaches and who ever yells the loudest wins?

    [/QUOTE]

    Thank you for your rational judgement Mr. Spock.  You could make a case tha Brady is the greatest of all time and many do- even non-Patriot fans.  He is the only multi SB winner who also has put up record breaking numbers.  He has played in more SB's than any other QB besides Elway, and won one more than him, and his career is still going.  He has played in half of the SB's since he became a QB.  His very first year playing he won a SB on a game winning drive.  But I guess you want to look at career passer rating even though his career is not over- that makes sense.

    The fact is you instead choose to spend your time bashing (5 posts now) the QB who is clearly responsible for the overwhelming success of your supposed team over the last 11 years. 

    Sure, so you are a fan.  A fan who chooses to complain about the QB who brought you 3 championships, and to nitpick every stat to complain, and ignore all the ones that don't prove your point.  So what exactly makes you a fan?  You bought a T-shirt or something.  You don't believe in the Pats, you don't want them to win, you spend your days complaining about a team a coach and the players that have given you everything a fan could want and you expect us to believe you are not just trolling around. 

    You are not Mr. Logic, it's obvious why you are here.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: These are the facts

    In response to RockScully's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Be prepared to be attacked.   He also has 27 TDs and 17 INTs since 2005 and if you take away his outlier games since then (best and worst), it's 19 TDs and 13 INTs.

    Obviously, that is not good.

    We cannot have our best player playing poorly.  This is the biggest stretch of his career. We'll see. I hope he has it figured out and won't try to run that shotgun spread.

    [/QUOTE]

    You've already been body slammed on your phoney stat parsing junior. You also were caught being either dead wrong or outright lying AGAIN on this when you mentioned it before.  Just stow the nonsense.

     

     
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