This defense looks like the best Pats "D" in a few seasons....

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from NickC1188. Show NickC1188's posts

    Re: This defense looks like the best Pats "D" in a few seasons....

    I couldn't have been more wrong about McGowan.  He's everything we had hoped Tank Williams would be: a safety who can play in the box against the run and cover tight ends.  He also hits hard.

    McGowan had a hit on 3rd and short that was huge, as it stopped Ray Rice in his tracks.  He also recovered the fumble on the opening kickoff.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: This defense looks like the best Pats "D" in a few seasons....

    What do you make of the final drive?  The D let them get very close.  Does our D get credit for the Clayton drop or was that just the Ravens beating themselves?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from fantasyfootball. Show fantasyfootball's posts

    Re: This defense looks like the best Pats "D" in a few seasons....

    The secondary has the most talent since the 2003 season when they won their 2nd S-Bowl.

    Merriweather is a budding Pro Bowler. McGowan has a nose for the ball. Bodden-Springs-Wilhite are turning into a very solid trio.

    Once Mayo gets back, all the underneath stuff offenses have had to settle for will be taken away. 

    No team has been able to run the ball against them consistently. 

    This unit will be top 5 by end of the year, which they'll need to match the Jets defense (hate to say it but they're the best in the league) and stop Manning and the Colts when it counts. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from bryanwiener. Show bryanwiener's posts

    Re: This defense looks like the best Pats "D" in a few seasons....

    In Response to Re: This defense looks like the best Pats "D" in a few seasons....:
    It's so refreshing to watch a corner who is right there when the ball arrives, and can tackle.  Bodden, in my opinion, has been tremendous.   Springs has been very good also.  Even Wheatley was better than I expected today (although my expectations were pretty low). The D-line was very good without Wilfork.  There were excellent against the run, and even though Ryan wasn't sacked, they forced him to rush some throws, and forced him out of the pocket a number of times.   With Mayo and Wilfork coming back soon, hopefully, I'm excited to see this defense the rest of the season.  Once the offense turns some field goals into touchdowns, and trust me, it WILL happen, this team will be hard to beat.
    Posted by pyegian

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from slicksteve38. Show slicksteve38's posts

    Re: This defense looks like the best Pats "D" in a few seasons....

    One thing to keep in mind too:
    Guyton is getting alot of reps/experience right now while Mayo is out.  Think about this, when Mayo comes back, you have another LB with more experience.  Could the Pats go back to more 3-4 set ups when mayo returns.  I think Guyton and Mayo together in the middle could be a nice future.  The first few games Guyton scared me, he was always a step behind the play, too much chasing.  This week he was making stops in the hole, and keeping the plays in front of him....thats progress.
    I dont think they are top 5 yet, as the final drive by Baltimore exposed Butler's inexperience. 
    I also dont see Chung stepping in and playing much this year at all.  he looked lost out there in pre-season, and that was against backups.  Keep in mind that Merriweather didnt look good his first year either, although he played some.  Believe it or not, the safeties in the pat's system are rellied upon almost as much as the LB's. 
    I thought Wright looked good yesterday as well, he clearly isnt a nose tackle, but he is a very effective DT. 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: This defense looks like the best Pats "D" in a few seasons....

    In Response to Re: This defense looks like the best Pats "D" in a few seasons....:
    What do you make of the final drive?  The D let them get very close.  Does our D get credit for the Clayton drop or was that just the Ravens beating themselves?
    Posted by themightypatriotz


    That is a real plus minus scenario.

    Plus:

    1.) The essentially closed the game out TWICE after Brady and company couldn't muster a FG out of their great position, much less get a first down, much less chew up more than just a minute and a half off the clock.

    2.) The drop was the defense. Clayton was listening for Meriweather, after a game of brutal hits, and got caught peeking upfield. Drops like that are precsiely why hard-hitting safeties are a benefit.

    Minus:

    1.) They were overaggressive on  the blitz. Too many sell-out blitzes. Even though they did an OK job protecting the passing seams, there were running seams. Specifically on Sanders' side, who had a real bad game.

    2.) I would like to contact third down as a negative, but the offense kept turning the ball back to them in key moments. So anything you get out of that "D" on the final drive was a bonus.

    They had already made the Ravens go 4 & out with just 4 minutes and change left. The offense couldn't get that time off the clock.

    Overall, weaker than last week's smothering of the Atlanta offense. But still give them credit for holding what has thus far been the NFL's most potent offense to a meager 14 points.

    I think that is basically the story with this "D." They are only going to give up 14-17 per. And it is the offense's job to make it stick.

    The part that is so heartening about it, is that they have received very little help there. No big leads where they can pin their ears back. And a lot of 3-outs. They have basically done this against a full playbook, rather than the defenses of that last few years, who were basically defending two minute playbooks because the Pats were out in front by 20-30-40 or more so often.

    This unit is very promising right now.

    Let's hope we see them build on what worked and what didn't work this week, and become more effective 'attackers.'
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: This defense looks like the best Pats "D" in a few seasons....

    In Response to Re: This defense looks like the best Pats "D" in a few seasons....:
    What do you make of the final drive?  The D let them get very close.  Does our D get credit for the Clayton drop or was that just the Ravens beating themselves?
    Posted by themightypatriotz


    Here is what Z said: Meriweather gets the game ball. That last drop was a direct result of the lickings he was dealing out all day long

    I completely agree with that.  So yes, our D should get credit for the Clayton drop.  I'll try not to get too philosophical lol, but too often we only talk about the symptom (Clayton drops a really catchable ball) and not the disease (our guys were hitting hard).  What Clayton did was exactly what a lot of WR's do when they are getting regularly hit into yesteryear.  They get happy feet, stone hands, and try to get away before they even catch the ball.  Yes, Clayton could've should've caught the ball.  Yes, he probably didn't because he was thinking of getting hit more than he was about catching the ball.  Credit the D there, especially Meriweather.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from NickC1188. Show NickC1188's posts

    Re: This defense looks like the best Pats "D" in a few seasons....

    Merriweather has come into his own, and you see him putting on big hits like the one he put on Leodis McKelvin and the one he put on Willis McGahee this week at the goal-line (the blown coverage was because the linebacker dropped off to the flats with the tight end instead of staying with the running back).  Sanders is reliable, and a good open field tackler.  I like McGowan's hitting and he's forced a fumble and recovered a fumble thus far this year.  He also played a big role in defending Tony Gonzalez and must have also been involved in containing Todd Heap yesterday.  It's too soon to judge Chung, but I'm loving our safeties in coverage.  McGowan can cover pass-catching tight ends, Merriweather played corner in college, and Chung supposedly has the talent to play the slot.  Versatility kills.

    Our corners are a world of difference this year.  Bodden broke up two potential touchdowns yesterday - one on a deep post route and one on the fade on Baltimore's final first down.  I LOVE the way Bodden HITS - he laid the wood on Terrell Owens on third down in Week 1 and doesn't seem shy about the contact part of the contact sport.  Springs looks good for the most part, and I see him near the play when passes come his way - sometimes like with Mason you just have to credit good chemistry between a good QB and his receiver.  Wilhite is still a second year player.  I'm liking what the young guys can learn from veterans like Bodden and Springs.  As a wild, unfounded guess, I think Butler could be a shutdown corner someday - he's got the size and quickness (not top speed, quickness).

    I'm loving the newfound pass rush, and I think as long as the Pats can force teams into passing situations we can keep setting the hounds loose.  Banta-Cain is a man reborn, and Thomas looked good when he rushed.  I like Mike Wright's pass rushing, but I'm suspicious of his ability to hold up against the run.  Ty Warren was excellent yesterday, though - he's probably part of the reason why Seymour became expendable.  His play wrapping up McGahee in the backfield was huge.  He's also a guy where you don't doubt his ability to hold up against the run, along with Wilfork.  Those two guys just don't move backwards.  I'm still waiting on Burgess - the one time I noticed him yesterday was right as the Ravens' tackle drove him into the ground as he tried to come back inside after trying to beat the tackle to the edge in pass rush...

    Guyton's experience will help undoubtedly.  I think by having to do the playcalling for the defense, he's forced to learn even more about each little intricacy.  I noticed he's slow to shed blocks, but that should improve - I wondered, though, if it was a technique thing or if it was because he was a split second too slow to recognize the play.  Thomas has quietly put pressure on the quarterback without getting the stats (sacks) to show for it.  I think I like that I'm not noticing him because it means that teams are avoiding going in his direction.  Seau will have some knowledge to impart, if not some run-stuffing ability.  I like him as a pass-rusher, too, but I'd rather not see him in coverage.  I wonder if they could play some 3-4 with Seau and Mayo in the middle and Thomas and Guyton on the outside.  I like Guyton in the middle, though because he can cover runningbacks and has the speed to get from sideline to sideline.

    I loved the playcalling yesterday.  It was much more aggressive.  Bruschi did a good job on ESPNBoston of describing how he thought the team was trying to get the defense's feet wet with basic calls before ramping it up.  More talent will make Pees look better.  It's hard to be a good defensive coordinator with Deltha O'Neal as your #1 corner.

    I'm interested to see what kind of stuff the Patriots put together against the Broncos.  Although their quarterback isn't great, he's a winner (4-0 and a career winning percentage +0.500) and he's got a ton of receiving talent (Marshall, Royal, and Stokley).
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ewhite1065. Show ewhite1065's posts

    Re: This defense looks like the best Pats "D" in a few seasons....

    Bottom line on our defense is that it is better than last year or the year before. Last years defense would have blown that game for us yesterday. They would never have made back to back stops on 3rd and 4th down.Also we got consistant pressure on the quarterback. Last year even when we blitzed we had trouble getting to the quarterback.This is clearly because our speed at the linebacker and safety position has increased and we haven't lost much by replacing Seymour with Wright. Also our secondary has played much tighter and harder hitting coverage.Overall, I'm impressed so far and I believe we can get better.
     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from donny1969. Show donny1969's posts

    Re: This defense looks like the best Pats "D" in a few seasons....

    Who here loved that pass rush yesterday? It was awesome to see Flacco running for his life and the continuous knockdowns they had on his. Flacco is a  Good QB and it was very encouraging to see us get pressure on him consistently. Lets hope theres more of that in Denver!!!
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from djredt. Show djredt's posts

    Re: This defense looks like the best Pats "D" in a few seasons....

    In Response to Re: This defense looks like the best Pats "D" in a few seasons....:
    I hate the term playmaker. It is essentially meaningless outside of fingering one player with flashy statistics.


    I couldn't have said it/wrote it better.  Playmakers was a bad TV show.  Team defenses win championships, and we might have one on our hands here yet again.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: This defense looks like the best Pats "D" in a few seasons....

    How come, with all those pass deflections, our D couldn't haul in a single one.  I nearly had a heart attack with this game. 

    I'm not ragging on the D, I think they did great holding the Ravens to 14 points especially with the explanation that our hard hitting forced Clayton to drop the ball, it just seems like whenever it's our ball that is being knocked in the air, it's a turnover.  Why can't we get some?  I mean, one more turnover and we wouldn't have to listen to Ray Lewis put an asterisk next to our win.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: This defense looks like the best Pats "D" in a few seasons....

    In Response to Re: This defense looks like the best Pats "D" in a few seasons....:
    How come, with all those pass deflections, our D couldn't haul in a single one.  I nearly had a heart attack with this game. 
    Posted by themightypatriotz


    They did.

    Bodden closed out the half by stopping the driving Ravens with a pick.

    No pick = points.

    Credit Bodden, who has been amazing this season. He looks like Ty Law out there. form tackling. Hitting. Deflections. Interceptions. And they can move him all over the field.

    Meriweather gets the game ball.

    The defensive MVP so far has been Bodden IMO.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: This defense looks like the best Pats "D" in a few seasons....

    In Response to Re: This defense looks like the best Pats "D" in a few seasons....:
    In Response to Re: This defense looks like the best Pats "D" in a few seasons.... : They did. Bodden closed out the half by stopping the driving Ravens with a pick. No pick = points. Credit Bodden, who has been amazing this season. He looks like Ty Law out there. form tackling. Hitting. Deflections. Interceptions. And they can move him all over the field. Meriweather gets the game ball. The defensive MVP so far has been Bodden IMO.
    Posted by zbellino


    As good as Bodden was yesterday and has been all season, the player that also really impressed me was Darius Butler.  He made crucial deflections in or near the end zone yesterday that were horribly difficult plays to make on the ball...

     
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: This defense looks like the best Pats "D" in a few seasons....

    In Response to This defense looks like the best Pats "D" in a few seasons....:
     . . . a dominant 30% on 3rd down. Allowing a paltry 14 pts a game. Allowing around 260 yards a game, and not once allowing 300 yards a game. And the revamped secondary has made complete no shows of T.O., Lee Evans and now Tony Gonzalez. There is a long, long way to go, but there is also a *lot* to like about the speed and ability of this young defense. I can't wait until they get their assignements down, and NE can start throwing some exotic fronts out there. 
    Posted by zbellino


    After 4 games, the only thing I'd argue about re the premise of this post is that I think the 2007 defense was championship caliber too.  Take back a couple of fortuitous bounces of the ball in the SB and it's inarguable.  That team, like this one (so far), was just very good at preventing the other team from scoring even though they were on the field an awful lot. 

    Personally, I hope they don't bring back Seau.  They don't need slow, old guys mucking up the works.  Unless it's just for the odd situation or to give somebody a rest every now and then.  If he's prominent, they're worse off as a defense.

    Also, maybe Mayo being out has been a blessing in disguise.  It's given others, most obviously Guyton, a chance to take on more responsibility and really step up.  That can't but help his development.  Not that I'm hoping Mayo is out much longer.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from noncallcity. Show noncallcity's posts

    Re: This defense looks like the best Pats "D" in a few seasons....

    Wow...this board was awfully worried about the D before the season and I got no responses when I expected them to be very good and worried about the offensive line. Sure I want some recognition, but maybe I'll need a few thousand more posts : )
    Say it's early, but the D will improve, not get worse. Shoot, Butler saved 2 touchdowns.

    Hard work plus desire might equal success
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: This defense looks like the best Pats "D" in a few seasons....

    I agree. I am not shortchanging Butler. He was one of my 'guys' in the draft. Along with Brace and Chung. My rep is on these guys right now.

    I think they are protecting Butler by having him work in spots where he doesn't have to make too many pre-snap decisions. He really is the best athlete in the backfield.

    I think I have shortchanged Guyton. He looks like a player too. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: This defense looks like the best Pats "D" in a few seasons....

    Well with only two legitimate offenses left on our schedule, the D could turn in one of the best points allowed this decade:

    @Denver
    Tenn
    @Tampa Bay
    -bye-
    Miami
    @Indy*
    Jests
    @N'orleans*
    @Phins
    Caroline
    @Buff
    Jacksonville
    @Oilers

    I don't even think N'Orleans is that good an offense.  Really the only offense that has given us trouble in years is Indy.  If we can go 3-0 against Indy, Jests, Saints, we should get a first round bye.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: This defense looks like the best Pats "D" in a few seasons....

    Especially playing the Oilers the last week.

    Warren Moon can't be in game shape these days.

    I wouldn't discount Miami at home. Divisional games are always tougher. And Jacksonville could be playing better.

    But NE really only plays four elite offenses this season. Indy, NOLA, Baltimore, and Buffalo (who are not going to be elite because TO has already quit on them).

    So make that three.

    But in reality, the Pats schedule is really difficult through the first 12 games, but the last four are an easy-ish bunch.

    I don't think they will set any records though. If the offense keeps giving up 7 points every other week, it is hard to get that record for sure.

    The "D" is giving up just 14ppg. That is third. Adding the offensive 'contribution' it is 17.8, which is 9th.

    Plus it is early, and they will, at some point, play a bad game or two. Hopefully, when that happens the "O" can pick them up, the way they have been picking up the "O" so far.

    The thing that "I" like so far, is that it appears so far that this defense can close out a game against a good offense. And NE hasn't had that since Tedy and Company were in their prime.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: This defense looks like the best Pats "D" in a few seasons....

    But if the D has a bad game at some point this season, everyone will be calling for their heads, saying this is the worst defense in the history of professional or amateur football!
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from mosseffect43. Show mosseffect43's posts

    Re: This defense looks like the best Pats "D" in a few seasons....

    did anyone watch the pack/vikes game? the vikes had 8 sacks in that game.and something like 20 for the year.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Vladtheimpaler1. Show Vladtheimpaler1's posts

    Re: This defense looks like the best Pats "D" in a few seasons....

    the pats defense is getting better,but no. they are not where the vikings,or saints,bronco,s are.but come by november,or december?who knows.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: This defense looks like the best Pats "D" in a few seasons....

    In Response to Re: This defense looks like the best Pats "D" in a few seasons....:
    Two sacks. Six PDs. And one big INT. I would like to know what the playmaker people think now. And no this isn't a baiting post at all. I want an honest opinion, and some more good discussion about the nature of stats, and whether they can mislead. This weak NE's defense thrived on the big play. But they gave up more yardage, and it was nip and tuck the entire way. Given your choice of those stats, or the relentless 3-out performance against Atlanta, which would you take? Why? Personally, I won't get down on them, because bottom line, they only allowed 14 points, again. But their 3rd down conversion rate wasn't very good, and the opposing offense got over 300 yards.
    Posted by zbellino

    Z - question on your post - how many PD's per game is considered good?  How many per defender, etc?
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: This defense looks like the best Pats "D" in a few seasons....

    In Response to Re: This defense looks like the best Pats "D" in a few seasons....:
    did anyone watch the pack/vikes game? the vikes had 8 sacks in that game.and something like 20 for the year.
    Posted by mosseffect43

    Moss,

    I did and I am not taking anything from the vikes or Allen, but the GB oline was abhorrent.  Allen did not look fast last night.  On at least one sack it looked like Rogers rolled a bit to his left right into Allen. 

    Freeney appears to be so much quicker.  that is not suggesting he is better than Allen, but I couldn't help wondering what Freeney would have done to that LT. 

    Maybe it was Allen's technique.  He seemed to come off the snap and just stop and wait for the LT to set himself or make a move and then Allen countered it.  They just did not seem like quick sacks.  That actually says alot about the Vikes DB's and LB's because they had their receivers covered.
     
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