This Trade Makes Them Better (Just Watch)

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from WeisOffenseReturns. Show WeisOffenseReturns's posts

    This Trade Makes Them Better (Just Watch)

    Yes, that's right, folks. 

    Charlie Weis's style of offense is why KC is up 3-0 and really isn't that good with a poor pass blocking O Line, albeit with a great run game.

    Don't look now, but we are going to see more 50/50 here, v.s. 60 pass, 40 or less run.

    Tedy Bruschi finally nails his Pats analysis, as he puts his ESPN hat off to the side for once.

    Here are some things that will improve with this new base offense going back to Weis's offense.

    This was likely why they went hot and heavy with TE, signed Patten and Holt, etc. Even though the latter two players did not make the team, you could easily see this transformation.

    It became painfully apparent in 2009 that Brady had a little crush on Randy during games.

    The NE offense lost 3-5 games last year due to offense inefficiency.

    NE lost to the Jets, very likely because Moss lobbied Brady at halftiime to throw to him.

    And voila, NE lost.

    NE handed that game away because of Moss's ego and Brady catering to him.

    Here is what will improve:

    1. Time of Possession Consistency.  No brainer.
    2. The Offensive Line. As stated here many times, the contstant spread offense and pass blocking made them look worse than they are. This is a top 5 OL when healthy.
    3. The Run Game.  No more stops at the line.  Running downhill. Expect BJGE to channel Antowain Smith.
    4. The Defense will look even better. Less short fields to defend, far less 3 and outs, and less time to be on the field because NE will be running it with aggression and using the TEs.  More runs, means less time on the clock.

    One of the biggest misconceptions is that Moss maks the offense go. No, he doens't.

    If you had to pick a player, it's Brady. If I had to choose between Moss and Welker, I choose Welker because he's open faster in any offense.

    FInaly, the VERY DUMB MEDIA who can;t see straight continues to say "Moss opens up the field".

    This is correct, but ONLY IN THE SPREAD OFFENSE.

    WAKE UP.  How can anyone watch 2009 or Week 2's second half and not get nightmares?

    It's not like Moss had an average QB here, no Welker, no TEs, no other legit WRs like Edelman or an ascending Tate.

    Keep banning me, but I have predicted almost every single flaw with this team correctly, tried to communicate why I saw what I saw, but too many children here wanted to take the Mazz, Gasper, Breer, etc bait and ignore that the OFFENSE was more

    The McDaniels, one dimensional, video game spread offense died in SB 42.

    They had a 2 year hangover and Bill O'Brien finally put his foot down.

    BOUT TIME!!!!!!

    Expect good things, folks. Expect good things.



     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from lightningbrain. Show lightningbrain's posts

    Re: This Trade Makes Them Better (Just Watch)

    I just opened up Boston.com and saw the article about how the 2010 Patriots aren't as good b/c they let Moss go.  BS.  The Globe writers don't know what they are talking about since Reiss left.  I agree with you that the team is improving and that Moss' departure is a step in the right direction.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: This Trade Makes Them Better (Just Watch)

    The Weiss offense?  You mean the punt, punt, punt offense?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from WeisOffenseReturns. Show WeisOffenseReturns's posts

    Re: This Trade Makes Them Better (Just Watch)

    No, I mean the one he runs in KC now, where Cassel sits behind a great run game, uses a nice TE and keeps Ds more on their heels because it's less predictable than the spread.

    This will be a hybrid of the two offenses (Weis and McDaniels), but the base recipe is being flipped from 65% spread and 35% Weis/traditional, to the vice versa.

    This is why Patten was signed.  This is why Holt was signed.

    This is why they are looking at Branch. They knew the 2007 offense was dead.


     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from HOFFBURGER. Show HOFFBURGER's posts

    Re: This Trade Makes Them Better (Just Watch)

    we'll see how much "better" they are in the immediate future with no wideouts besides tate rookie taylor price that can play outside, and as explosive as tate is on special teams he still has a ways to go as a receiver. maybe you guys should hold off on all this "better" talk until you actually see the kids contribute to drives that result in touchdowns a few times. until you actually see how much room welker and hernandez have in their running lanes now. smh.

    i am not being negative, i will root for the pats regardless. i wasnt happy about the trade, still whats done is done and its time to move on. but just saying they will immediately be better is delusional and just as premature kneejerk reaction as those that are assuming they are all done without moss. we have opposing viewpoints stuck in the extreme of both polarities, no rationality or middle ground with most pats fans.

    generally speaking i agree with the OP's premise (to a degree), but you still need the personnel to make it work. it worked in the past with a mix of solid depth and veteran leadership, 2 things the 2010 pats are lacking. but hey in this magical world all these rookies and second year players will just immediately develop right away and step up, and the growing pains we saw even with moss on the team will vanish. again, smh.

    fact...our defense still is not good enough to consistently win games without our offense carrying them, yet now you all assume hernandez, tate, edelman, etc are ready to carry the load of consistently being open for TFB and racking up points.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from WeisOffenseReturns. Show WeisOffenseReturns's posts

    Re: This Trade Makes Them Better (Just Watch)

    In Response to Re: This Trade Makes Them Better (Just Watch):
    [QUOTE]I just opened up Boston.com and saw the article about how the 2010 Patriots aren't as good b/c they let Moss go.  BS.  The Globe writers don't know what they are talking about since Reiss left.  I agree with you that the team is improving and that Moss' departure is a step in the right direction.
    Posted by lightningbrain[/QUOTE]


    Shaugnessy is an idiot.  They all are.

    Jackie MacMullan said the offense is "severely crippled".

    Did anyone watch this offense when they run the ball and use these TEs compared to trying to cater to Moss?

    Do fans want SB rings here or not?

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Evil2010. Show Evil2010's posts

    Re: This Trade Makes Them Better (Just Watch)

    In Response to Re: This Trade Makes Them Better (Just Watch):
    [QUOTE]The Weiss offense?  You mean the punt, punt, punt offense?
    Posted by themightypatriotz[/QUOTE]

    Punt punt punt won 3 SB titles?
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from WeisOffenseReturns. Show WeisOffenseReturns's posts

    Re: This Trade Makes Them Better (Just Watch)

    In Response to Re: This Trade Makes Them Better (Just Watch):
    [QUOTE]we'll see how much "better" they are in the immediate future with no wideouts besides tate rookie taylor price that can play outside, and as explosive as tate is on special teams he still has a ways to go as a receiver. maybe you guys should hold off on all this "better" talk until you actually see the kids contribute to drives that result in touchdowns a few times. until you actually see how much room welker and hernandez have in their running lanes now. smh. i am not being negative, i will root for the pats regardless. i wasnt happy about the trade, still whats done is done and its time to move on. but just saying they will immediately be better is delusional and just as premature kneejerk reaction as those that are assuming they are all done without moss. we have opposing viewpoints stuck in the extreme of both polarities, no rationality or middle ground with most pats fans. generally speaking i agree with the OP's premise (to a degree), but you still need the personnel to make it work. it worked in the past with a mix of solid depth and veteran leadership, 2 things the 2010 pats are lacking. but hey in this magical world all these rookies and second year players will just immediately develop right away and step up, and the growing pains we saw even with moss on the team will vanish. again, smh. fact...our defense still is not good enough to consistently win games without our offense carrying them, yet now you all assume hernandez, tate, edelman, etc are ready to carry the load of consistently being open for TFB and racking up points.
    Posted by HOFFBURGER[/QUOTE]

    FACT:  The spread offense was not consistent enough, did not help clock management, the O Line consistency, the run game or the defense.

    How many more 3 and outs did you want to see with Brady staring down his binky?

    Brady and Moss were sort of like the drug addict couple that needed a divorce and needed to go to seperate rehabs and to remove themselves from any druggie friends that they associate with using.

    How's that for an analogy?

    It's absolutely true.

    Brady spent all of 2009 trying to recapture 2007s record breaking successes.

    Go look at the numbers. This Brady offense does not lose when they run it 25+ times. I don't care if it's 3 yards per carry either.




     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Indylove. Show Indylove's posts

    Re: This Trade Makes Them Better (Just Watch)

    2 questions:

    This Trade Makes Them Better - when?

    Who currently on the staff has an offensive background with Weis?  I suppose the line coach does, but does he develop running and route schemes?
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Evil2010. Show Evil2010's posts

    Re: This Trade Makes Them Better (Just Watch)

    In Response to Re: This Trade Makes Them Better (Just Watch):
    [QUOTE]we'll see how much "better" they are in the immediate future with no wideouts besides tate rookie taylor price that can play outside, and as explosive as tate is on special teams he still has a ways to go as a receiver. maybe you guys should hold off on all this "better" talk until you actually see the kids contribute to drives that result in touchdowns a few times. until you actually see how much room welker and hernandez have in their running lanes now. smh. i am not being negative, i will root for the pats regardless. i wasnt happy about the trade, still whats done is done and its time to move on. but just saying they will immediately be better is delusional and just as premature kneejerk reaction as those that are assuming they are all done without moss. we have opposing viewpoints stuck in the extreme of both polarities, no rationality or middle ground with most pats fans. generally speaking i agree with the OP's premise (to a degree), but you still need the personnel to make it work. it worked in the past with a mix of solid depth and veteran leadership, 2 things the 2010 pats are lacking. but hey in this magical world all these rookies and second year players will just immediately develop right away and step up, and the growing pains we saw even with moss on the team will vanish. again, smh. fact...our defense still is not good enough to consistently win games without our offense carrying them, yet now you all assume hernandez, tate, edelman, etc are ready to carry the load of consistently being open for TFB and racking up points.
    Posted by HOFFBURGER[/QUOTE]

     And that my friend is why all the draft picks are stocked. I expect any needs to be addressed then. In the meantime the offense can gell making it easier to plug in new guys in the off season. How many teams have tried to go the instant gratification route by trading all their picks for one season big names only to fall short and regress after that season is over.

     Look at the Vikings. Next year Farve will go away after adding to his stats and they will have no experienced QB to replace him. So while they're finding a new starting QB and getting him experience Moss will retire and Peterson will be asked to carry the team on his back for several seasons. They may find themselves in that middle no where land where they're not good enough to go all the way but not bad enough to get the picks that can land them a top QB. So it's this year or bust and given Farve's ability to blow big games with his hero antics I'm not holding my breath for their chances.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from WeisOffenseReturns. Show WeisOffenseReturns's posts

    Re: This Trade Makes Them Better (Just Watch)

    Remove the idea that it's "Weis".  More of a TRADITIONAL run first offense.

    That's the point.

    The video game McDaniels offense is great against average and bad Ds. You know, like Indy's.

    But, when a good/great D comes around in the  playoffs? It won't work.

    Cold Hard Football Facts did the homework on it, and the 2007 and 2009 playoff teams for NE scored less than the 2001-2005 Pats playoff teams, prior to the spread.

    This will be the 2001-2005 style offense, a sprinkle of spread, with a large upgrade in personnel.

    Why were Patten and Holt signed? Why is Branch rumored to return?

    All non spread offense WRs.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Evil2010. Show Evil2010's posts

    Re: This Trade Makes Them Better (Just Watch)

    In Response to Re: This Trade Makes Them Better (Just Watch):
    [QUOTE]2 questions: This Trade Makes Them Better - when? Who currently on the staff has an offensive background with Weis?  I suppose the line coach does, but does he develop running and route schemes?
    Posted by Indylove[/QUOTE]

    Easily answered...for the next 5 or 6 years. I suppose Indy has a better method. After all they have tons of SB titles to show for it.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from HOFFBURGER. Show HOFFBURGER's posts

    Re: This Trade Makes Them Better (Just Watch)

    @ weiss and evil

    i never said that in the long run it wont make them better off getting away from that spread offense and going back to a more balanced attack, because that i agree with and would happily welcome a change back to the philosophy that won them 3 rings. my point was right now, this season, the transition on the fly is not going to be as smooth and seamless as many fans think. some people think we are just going to morph into the 01 pats in week 6 with a bunch of kids that are still learning, and it's not likely to happen that quickly and easily. they will continue to take their lumps along the way, but i can see in following seasons complimenting the current crop of youngsters with more depth that fits the direction of where they wanna go. absolutely.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Indylove. Show Indylove's posts

    Re: This Trade Makes Them Better (Just Watch)

    I tip my hats to the pats fans -

    Two days ago Pats fans defended Moss and the Moss/Brady tandem as easily as taking a breath and as viciously as a Vick trained Pit Bull.  

    Today - Moss is a cancer.  This was the best thing that could have happened to the team.  Moss was Brady's binky. 

    What is this? 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: This Trade Makes Them Better (Just Watch)

    Let's see, O'Brien's offense has scored 12 touchdowns and 4 field goals for 96 points. 

    Weiss's offense in Kansas City has scored 6 touchdowns and 4 field goals for 54 points. 

    Yeah I think I'll go with O'Brien thanks.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from WeisOffenseReturns. Show WeisOffenseReturns's posts

    Re: This Trade Makes Them Better (Just Watch)

    Not me.

    WHen I saw Moss on the sideline, looking distant, after a HUGE, statement game win where NE utterly dominated Miami in that second half, I was annoyed.

    I said I'd give him a pass for clearing the air with the contract, but he better not do anything again the rest of the year.  Well, apparently, he didn't let up after Week 1's press conference.

    Once I heard of the antics the other night in Miami, and now we hear Brady lost faith in him, that's all we need to know.

    Too many children post here and equate stats and 60 yard bombs to effective offense over 16 games and the playoffs.

    This is why they aren't football people. They are video game people.


     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from HOFFBURGER. Show HOFFBURGER's posts

    Re: This Trade Makes Them Better (Just Watch)

    i just felt that right now, this season, we are sitting at 3-1 and still competitive in our division and conference. brady has shown the past few games after the jets that he can spread the ball around with moss on the field if he chooses to, some of us have been waiting for TFB to start exploiting the soft spots in a secondary that moss creates, and just as he begins doing it they trade moss...and now we got 12 more games with major experience and depth issues at wideout, which could also have a trickle down effect and temporarily stunt the growth of our young TE's if they start becoming a focal point of opposing defenses.

    moss had no leverage, he wants a new contract, if he wasnt gonna get it here he would be angling for one elsewhere...the worse thing he couldve done was shut it down and stop trying, or becoming divisive in locker room...BB shouldve just told him shut up and play football, that his next contract will be a whole lot better if he is a contributor on a successful team than it would be if he again starts living up to the "slouch" stereotype and takes his team down with him..

    i feel like BB did this not only for his own young players, but he did it to appease moss by sending him somewhere he can put up big numbers and become the homecoming hero in his contract year...in the process keeping him out of the AFC, and hopefully he ultimately signs an extension in Minny. but lets not kid ourselves into thinking it makes us better immediately because it doesent.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from WeisOffenseReturns. Show WeisOffenseReturns's posts

    Re: This Trade Makes Them Better (Just Watch)

    In Response to Re: This Trade Makes Them Better (Just Watch):
    [QUOTE]i just felt that right now, this season, we are sitting at 3-1 and still competitive in our division and conference. brady has shown the past few games after the jets that he can spread the ball around with moss on the field if he chooses to, some of us have been waiting for TFB to start exploiting the soft spots in a secondary that moss creates, and just as he begins doing it they trade moss...and now we got 12 more games with major experience and depth issues at wideout, which could also have a trickle down effect and temporarily stunt the growth of our young TE's if they start becoming a focal point of opposing defenses. moss had no leverage, he wants a new contract, if he wasnt gonna get it here he would be angling for one elsewhere...the worse thing he couldve done was shut it down and stop trying, or becoming divisive in locker room...BB shouldve just told him shut up and play football, that his next contract will be a whole lot better if he is a contributor on a successful team than it would be if he again starts living up to the "slouch" stereotype and takes his team down with him.. i feel like BB did this not only for his own young players, but he did it to appease moss by sending him somewhere he can put up big numbers and become the homecoming hero in his contract year...in the process keeping him out of the AFC, and hopefully he ultimately signs an extension in Minny. but lets not kid ourselves into thinking it makes us better immediately because it doesent.
    Posted by HOFFBURGER[/QUOTE]

    He did tell him to shut up!  After the Week 1 game.

    What does it tell you that Brady asked for Branch 2 weeks ago, Mr. Moss Apologist?

    I am a Moss fan, but not when he's a detriment to the TEAM.

    Period.


     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: This Trade Makes Them Better (Just Watch)

    By Weiss offense we are talking the 2 TE set. The Pats old stand by in the SB years. Something we have not head sense we let Grambo go to Denver. Tom Brady is the best PA QB alive. In a way we limited his effectiveness by having Moss( the deepest go route runner in the league) on the team. It takes a long time to get to the endzone from the other side of the field(even for Moss) which changes the dynamic of the offense.

    We now have all the tools to KILL defense's with the short to mid range passing game(another Tom Brady master piece) WW,Edelman,Woodhead or The 3 Amigos. Hernandez and Gronk. Tate to go deep. BJGE with a little Fred/Morris for the run game.

    The writing is on the wall. Tom Brady 2 TE Set. Play action pass. Still a few 4 wides with Woodhead out of the backfield.

    Every team knew they had to double Randy. Now who do you double. Tom Brady can now get the ball out of his hands in the 1st 2-3 seconds instead of 7 step drops and deep balls to Randy!

    BTW Gronk is the new Red Zone TERROR. Watch.

    Good Post RG!
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from HOFFBURGER. Show HOFFBURGER's posts

    Re: This Trade Makes Them Better (Just Watch)

    Indy...stop lumping all pats fans into one group...do all colts fans think in complete unison? of course not.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from WeisOffenseReturns. Show WeisOffenseReturns's posts

    Re: This Trade Makes Them Better (Just Watch)

    In Response to Re: This Trade Makes Them Better (Just Watch):
    [QUOTE]Let's see, O'Brien's offense has scored 12 touchdowns and 4 field goals for 96 points.  Weiss's offense in Kansas City has scored 6 touchdowns and 4 field goals for 54 points.  Yeah I think I'll go with O'Brien thanks.
    Posted by themightypatriotz[/QUOTE]

    I think you mean, you'd rather have Brady, Welker, Hernandez, Crumpler, Gronkowski, Tate, Edelman, etc, over Cassel, Moeaki, Bowe, etc.

    Brady />Cassel (obviously).

    My point, which I am not sure how it's missed at this point is, it's more difficult to gameplannfor the Weis offense than it is the one dimensional McDaniels Spread.

    The last 2 years, more so in 2009 because BB ran it more with Cassel inn 2008, until it opened  up, teams just passed around the Jim Johnson/Rex Ryan/Spagnulolo blueprint against the spread.

    Again, you can expose teams using it in spots or blow out BAD Ds, but it shouldn't be the only one this team runs with Tom Brady under center.

    Please try to stop being combative and read what I write. Might help in the discussion.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from WeisOffenseReturns. Show WeisOffenseReturns's posts

    Re: This Trade Makes Them Better (Just Watch)

    In Response to Re: This Trade Makes Them Better (Just Watch):
    [QUOTE]there is no doubt they'll need to change their offensive philosophy.  this is not necessarily a bad thing.  The Pats did win 3 titles in the old style.  but they had a really good defense in those days.  the 2007 offense was fun while it lasted and it was a wild ride.  almost cashed it in.  i was initially against the Moss trade but hey, maybe it's just time to move on and get back to basics. 
    Posted by Mike-J-D[/QUOTE]


    Good/great TEam D's, yes, but 2001s wasn't great, it was opportunistic.
    Also, make no mistake, the Weis methodical offense also helped those Ds.  They weren't on the field a lot.

    Part of it was them playing well and part of it was NE's 7 minute drives.

    Was New Orlean's 21st ranked D great last year?

    Does New Orleans use a spread all the time and have limited balance, no TEs to use,

    NE is VERY CLOSE to aligning their team like what New Orleans has.

    Opportunistic D, incredible STs, and a balanced, nasty offense.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from HOFFBURGER. Show HOFFBURGER's posts

    Re: This Trade Makes Them Better (Just Watch)

    In Response to Re: This Trade Makes Them Better (Just Watch):
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: This Trade Makes Them Better (Just Watch) : He did tell him to shut up!  After the Week 1 game. What does it tell you that Brady asked for Branch 2 weeks ago, Mr. Moss Apologist? I am a Moss fan, but not when he's a detriment to the TEAM. Period.
    Posted by WeisOffenseReturns[/QUOTE]

    dude i am not a "moss apologist", and if you wanna start trading barbs i am all for it. if you think this deal makes them better right now, this season, with the personnel we currently have left....then your holed up in a roxbury crackhouse sucking that glass d1ck. in the long run i agree with your opinion as for the direction of the offense, pardon me if i still wanted them to have their best possible team on the field this year too. nobody really wants to watch them get kicked around for another 3 months hoping someday the future comes and BB finally cashes in his draft picks and stops trying find his starters on the practice squad.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from WeisOffenseReturns. Show WeisOffenseReturns's posts

    Re: This Trade Makes Them Better (Just Watch)

    You are a Moss Apologist.  You are doing what the national media is doing. You act like BB wanted to deal Moss.

    Please stop.

    Are you seriously going to go the "BB drafts badly" route?

    You sure you want to do that?


     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from HOFFBURGER. Show HOFFBURGER's posts

    Re: This Trade Makes Them Better (Just Watch)

    his drafts are a mixed bag...the last 2 are promising, before that atrocious for 2 years...and you know it...dont try to punk me like you are some kinda all knowing football guru, yeah i am sure i wanna do that, what of it? if i am a moss apologist then you are revealing yourself as a BB ballwasher.
     
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