This years receivers Better then last?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: This years receivers Better then last?

    In response to rtuinila's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    I don't know yet. Welker, Hernandez, and Gronk were a very strong trio and Lloyd was better than average as a 4th option. Now this group has a chance to be better because I think they might be deeper but looking at it -

    Welker -> Amendola: Provided health this could be a wash

    Gronk -> recovering Gronk: Again provided health and recovery this could be a wash or Gronk could regress

    Hernandez -> Sudfeld/Ford/Ballard?: Now I'm really big on Sudfeld and Ford looks like a decent find but Hernandez was one of the best receiving TE's last year. It's hard to replace him

    Lloyd -> Dobson: Say what you will about Lloyd but he did have a good year as a 4th option. Now Dobson has ability to surpass Lloyd but Dobson is still a rook and will need to get a feel for the game. Not many rook WR's are great out of the gate and giving what Lloyd gave last year might be a bit much this early on

    Branch -> Thompkins: Another case of a rook replacing a solid vet. Branch was alright at times but Thompkins has the potential to provide much more. The question is can the rook come in and give right away.

    I will say given health and talent this group could be better than last year but on paper right now last years crop were better receivers, at least until the rooks prove what they are capable of


    I swear by lil 10 pound bearded baby Jesus

     



    You forgot to take into consideration Gronk could be even better and not just a wash.

     

    Hern would have been one of the best last year if he hadn't had one of the highest drop percentages in the league. To me those drive killing drops brought his stock right back down to just average. He also had a penchant for running right at the nearest defender, even if he had to go east-west instead of north-south, to try to juke the guy out of his socks. Problem is he usually got tackled instead of running to daylight and gaining another 6-10 yards. If Sudfeld doesn't drop a league leading number of passes thrown his way, he will easily surpass Herns contribution.

    Dobson has already proven he is much more willing to fight for the ball than Lloyd ever dreamed of so there is an excellent chance he will be a considerable improvement over Lloyd. On top of that Brady is much more willing to throw in Dobsons direction than he was in Lloyds.

    A Branch that couldn't get separation is not better than either of the rookies, at worst it is a wash




    I agree with that entire second paragraph. I don't get the infatuation with Hern's talent - I thought he was overrated - for all the "he is a matchup nightmare" stuff, he was just as likely to run right into the defender and go down, drop it, get hurt or fumble it. He looked stiff to me for a guy that was supossed to be this receiving wizard. He got hurt (regularly). And let's not forget he offered little as a blocker - and when they tried to run the ball with him he got hurt (right away), so that little dynamic dimension you had with him was not going to happen. If this guy lost one single step of speed with age, he was going to be useless.

    I think Hern was going to morph into a often injured, over priced 40-60 catch a year guy that we were always going to look to cut for cap purposes. He was always going to get knicked up and it was always going to slow him enough that it would ruin the chance of him being special in this offense. He is the Terry Glenn of tight ends. 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: This years receivers Better then last?

    Yes, much better if we're talking WR.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjri37. Show ghostofjri37's posts

    Re: This years receivers Better then last?


    We will find out soon enough if this current group will be better. The one thing that stands out about the current group of  WR's is their size and speed.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: This years receivers Better then last?

    Younger, bigger, faster, stronger, hungry, they fight for the ball... did I mention more physical?  McDaniels will squeeze the remaining talent out of any player.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Army2LT. Show Army2LT's posts

    Re: This years receivers Better then last?

    In response to 49Patriots' comment:

    In response to Army2LT's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Top 5 WR look to be-

    80 Danny Amendola 5-11 188 27 5 Texas Tech

    11 Julian Edelman 5-10 200 26 5 Kent State 

    17 Aaron Dobson 6-3 203 21 R Marshall

    82 Josh Boyce 5-11 203 22 R Texas Christian

    85 Kenbrell Thompkins 6-0 196 24 R Cincinnati 

     



    Edelman is 4th on the depth chart, Thompkins is second and Dobson third.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Yeah, I can't remember where I got this list from but it actually had Jenkins in the top 3.  Thompkins has been a heck of a surprise so far.  I think Brady will play with a chip on his shoulder like he has something yet again to prove to the world.  And that is the fact that he can win a SB with a brand new receiving corps.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from nyjetssuc. Show nyjetssuc's posts

    Re: This years receivers Better then last?


    Ask me this question sometime in November...we'll have better info by then...until much later in the season there is NO WAY to intelligently answer this question....

    NEXTTTTTT

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from gr82bme. Show gr82bme's posts

    Re: This years receivers Better then last?

    I got a feeling they'll be using RBs as receivers much more than they did last year.  Perhaps a return to the screens they use to run so well back in the day, perhaps just dump-down.  No data whatsoever to back this up, just a gut feeling.  Also, even if Gronk misses a few starts, I think our other TEs can make catches.  Hey, TB did alot with no-name receivers for a few years - maybe he can gel with the new WRs.  Of course, none of this matters if the defense doesn't improve, but I think it will.  Than again, I tend to be an optimist :).

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from bingopatswillwinagain. Show bingopatswillwinagain's posts

    Re: This years receivers Better then last?

    In response to nyjetssuc's comment:


    Ask me this question sometime in November...we'll have better info by then...until much later in the season there is NO WAY to intelligently answer this question....

    NEXTTTTTT



    well if your at your level then sure there is no answer to any question. but for the rest of us we can embrace the possibilitys. stupid is stupid does just like your post. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from dreighver. Show dreighver's posts

    Re: This years receivers Better then last?

    In response to bingopatswillwinagain's comment:

    In response to nyjetssuc's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     


    Ask me this question sometime in November...we'll have better info by then...until much later in the season there is NO WAY to intelligently answer this question....

    NEXTTTTTT

     



    well if your at your level then sure there is no answer to any question. but for the rest of us we can embrace the possibilitys. stupid is stupid does just like your post. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    What's up with the hostility, man?

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from krismk. Show krismk's posts

    Re: This years receivers Better then last?


    I'd like to see Brady take an older, more experienced and calmer approach with these young guys.

    The talent is there, he has to be patient.

    Like the old joke about the young bull, the old bull and the cows...let's walk down there... and get them all.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from bingopatswillwinagain. Show bingopatswillwinagain's posts

    Re: This years receivers Better then last?

    In response to dreighver's comment:

    In response to bingopatswillwinagain's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to nyjetssuc's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     


    Ask me this question sometime in November...we'll have better info by then...until much later in the season there is NO WAY to intelligently answer this question....

    NEXTTTTTT

     

     



    well if your at your level then sure there is no answer to any question. but for the rest of us we can embrace the possibilitys. stupid is stupid does just like your post. 

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    What's up with the hostility, man?

     

    [/QUOTE]

    come up with somthing dont just write off the post based on the unknown,  you do have something to go on college tape, reports from practice and just pure skill, no hostillity just post somthing worth reading.    

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from FishTaco64. Show FishTaco64's posts

    Re: This years receivers Better then last?

    I like this group, and I think it honestly has the potential to be one of the NFL's best in the near future. To start, Gronk is the best TE in the NFL so when he comes back, that is an immediate boost. Amendola can fill the Welker role, and even has more upside to him.

     

    Dobson, Thompkins, Boyce, and maybe even Aiken all have huge potential. This is the way to build a great WR group, get them young and develop them. Look what the Cardinals did a few years ago, or the Packers, find the right guys, and mold them to your system. Having Brady also gives tem a huge edge, just hope they can master the two-minute offense quickly, in case we need them to come through in a big situation.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from bingopatswillwinagain. Show bingopatswillwinagain's posts

    Re: This years receivers Better then last?

    In response to FishTaco64's comment:

    I like this group, and I think it honestly has the potential to be one of the NFL's best in the near future. To start, Gronk is the best TE in the NFL so when he comes back, that is an immediate boost. Amendola can fill the Welker role, and even has more upside to him.

     

    Dobson, Thompkins, Boyce, and maybe even Aiken all have huge potential. This is the way to build a great WR group, get them young and develop them. Look what the Cardinals did a few years ago, or the Packers, find the right guys, and mold them to your system. Having Brady also gives tem a huge edge, just hope they can master the two-minute offense quickly, in case we need them to come through in a big situation.



    totally agree we needed to get young 2 years ago insted of dipping into ochos and has beens from free agency. This group I see being dominent with gronk opening things up for them. the new tight end sudfield will replace dumbandez very nicely.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: This years receivers Better then last?

    In response to bingopatswillwinagain's comment:

    In response to FishTaco64's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    I like this group, and I think it honestly has the potential to be one of the NFL's best in the near future. To start, Gronk is the best TE in the NFL so when he comes back, that is an immediate boost. Amendola can fill the Welker role, and even has more upside to him.

     

    Dobson, Thompkins, Boyce, and maybe even Aiken all have huge potential. This is the way to build a great WR group, get them young and develop them. Look what the Cardinals did a few years ago, or the Packers, find the right guys, and mold them to your system. Having Brady also gives tem a huge edge, just hope they can master the two-minute offense quickly, in case we need them to come through in a big situation.

     



    totally agree we needed to get young 2 years ago insted of dipping into ochos and has beens from free agency. This group I see being dominent with gronk opening things up for them. the new tight end sudfield will replace dumbandez very nicely.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I don't want to start a fight or anything but, if you think calling Hernandez, "dumbandez" is funny or cute, it isn't. It only takes away from your credibility.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from fl+adam,. Show fl+adam,'s posts

    Re: This years receivers Better then last?

    In my opinion there are many ways to win in the NFL, but few ways to be perennial winners.  The Pats have one of the great ways.  Barring injury to your key 5-6 players, the plan works.

     

    Build your lines first.  This includes your O line and D line, as well as at least part of your LB core, depending on system.  These guys take a little longer to develop, and there are around 10 of them needed, plus depth.  They are also lower paid on the overall scale and there fore easier to keep for the long haul.

     

    Draft your QB and LB's second.  If you do not have these guys you stink, so even with the building of the lines your picks are still high.  The QB is expensive, so as soon as you have them the "clock" starts to get better.  These guys make the team competitive.  A growing O line with talent also protects your franchise QB.  Development time on these guys is shorter than linemen.

     

    The third wave is the "skilled" positions.  WR, RB, TE, and DB's.  These positions are filled in the short term with FA pickups.  These positions are hit and miss, in that injuries are more common, and more often career ending.  Development time on these guys is the shortest, but so is chances of hit and miss.  The good ones are also the most expensive.  If you followed the steps above your picks are middle down.  If your lines, LB, and QB is good, your skilled positions are far less critical for at least average to playoff success. 

     

    All of that said, if the pats are in position to spend picks on DB's and WR the last few years, the immediate future looks very bright.  If a few of these guys pan out SB's could be in our near future.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: This years receivers Better then last?

    Amendola probably won't be a 120 catch machine like Welker. But I like what we are seeing from the young kids. The WR curse myth is just that ... a myth. NE made some poor (and low) selections that didn't work. It has no bearing on the new selections who were taken by a largely different scouting group, and using a very different philosophy.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: This years receivers Better then last?

    In response to zbellino's comment:

    The WR curse myth is just that ... a myth. NE made some poor (and low) selections that didn't work. It has no bearing on the new selections who were taken by a largely different scouting group, and using a very different philosophy.



    +1

    Other than Chad Jackson, prior to this draft there really hadn't been many high picks invested in WRs.  Tate and Price were both late 3rd rounders.  You have to go all the way back to Bethel Johnson in 2003 to find another reasonably high pick.  I hope this year we can finally put the ridiculous myth that Brady can't work with young WRs to bed.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: This years receivers Better then last?

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    In response to zbellino's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    The WR curse myth is just that ... a myth. NE made some poor (and low) selections that didn't work. It has no bearing on the new selections who were taken by a largely different scouting group, and using a very different philosophy.

     



    +1

     

    Other than Chad Jackson, prior to this draft there really hadn't been many high picks invested in WRs.  Tate and Price were both late 3rd rounders.  You have to go all the way back to Bethel Johnson in 2003 to find another reasonably high pick.  I hope this year we can finally put the ridiculous myth that Brady can't work with young WRs to bed.

    [/QUOTE]

    Correct. 

    And think about the Tate/Johnson selections. 

    They were head scratchers on both accounts. Both were the kind of situation where the draft gurus out there were saying, why leave these other guys on the board for a 4th round KR? This is my biggest beef with how Dimitrioff, et al, would scout those guys. They would hedge their bets on WRs by picking excellent KRs. 

    What did they get? Well Tate and Johnson became good KRs, who were off the team in four seasons, and out of the league (BJ) shortly thereafter. 

    If you pick KRs, you get KRs. In order to get a dynamite WR, you need to select a WR, and do it rather high. It stinks, sure, but that is the name of the game when it comes to drafting WRs.

    My theory is after the CJ bust they got scared and looked for "value" trying to get a player that might stick as a role player even if he doesn't get it as a WR. But it's faulty logic. In that respect, I always liked the Chad Jackson selection *better* than Tate, Johnson, etc. At least it was a selection with a clear purpose instead of a mealy mouthed hedge.  

    The thing I loved, really loved, about Jim Robinson getting Dobson, Boyce, and Thompkins is that they are WRs only. They grabbed guys that look like WRs and have zero upside as KRs.

    Even if all of these guys are busts ... NE would have missed in the right way drafting good college WRs to play WR. 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: This years receivers Better then last?

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    I hope it's better, because last year's group of WRs (other than Welker) was pretty mediocre.  Sure the TEs were good, but the WRs weren't much at all. 



         True. The bar set by last years' WR corp is pretty low. 

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from bingopatswillwinagain. Show bingopatswillwinagain's posts

    Re: This years receivers Better then last?

    In response to rtuinila's comment:

     

    In response to bingopatswillwinagain's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to FishTaco64's comment:

     

     

     

     

    I like this group, and I think it honestly has the potential to be one of the NFL's best in the near future. To start, Gronk is the best TE in the NFL so when he comes back, that is an immediate boost. Amendola can fill the Welker role, and even has more upside to him.

     

    Dobson, Thompkins, Boyce, and maybe even Aiken all have huge potential. This is the way to build a great WR group, get them young and develop them. Look what the Cardinals did a few years ago, or the Packers, find the right guys, and mold them to your system. Having Brady also gives tem a huge edge, just hope they can master the two-minute offense quickly, in case we need them to come through in a big situation.

     

     

     



    totally agree we needed to get young 2 years ago insted of dipping into ochos and has beens from free agency. This group I see being dominent with gronk opening things up for them. the new tight end sudfield will replace dumbandez very nicely.

     

     

     

     

     




    I don't want to start a fight or anything but, if you think calling Hernandez, "dumbandez" is funny or cute, it isn't. It only takes away from your credibility.

     

     

     



    so what do you call a player that threw away his entire future to be a thug and killed someone less then a few miles from his home and did it all on camera, at his home then smashed the security system really ??? does this really question the integrity of my credibility?? hmmm  let me guess you think hes innocent and frown upon anyone who says different?? now lets talk credibilty, also love to see you explain with humility to the victoms family how smart hernandez is and how you feel the need to defend him.

     

     
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