Thompkins

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    Re: Thompkins

    In response to DanishPastry's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:




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    Other than the NO game when has that happened? 1 game is enough to call him clutch? Sorry but this is the type of stuff which is why I think he's overrated by many. The kid after the NO game was so clutch BB started to take snaps away from him until he was a healthy inactive. He had 1 great game in Atl where a 1/4 of his stats came from and in NO he only had 3 recs but one was the game winner where everyone fell in love with the kid. 1 catch doesn't make a career but it seems that one catch turns him into Branch in some Pats fans eyes. The kid has been good and if he does what he did on Friday I'd be happy to have him as a 4th/5th WR on the team but lets not start tossing around clutch and Branch comparisons until the kid has done it consistently and not as a 1 off catch here and there.



    I'm not saying he is an all time great, and I do say that he must work on catching more of his targets. But having played only one season three games stand out to me. Atlanta was a good game for him, NO for obvious reasons, and then try to go back and watch the Denver game, The Comeback. Opening drive of the 2nd half, down 24 who does Brady go to like 3 times straight? KT. At the time both Amendola and Gronk were both healthy, so he was targeted above those two and Edelman. Clutch.

    So that is at least twice Brady has trusted him, where he delivered. Again, we're talking about a #4-5-6 kind of guy, not a HOF'er. The Branch comparison was for an area where Branch was better, so it's not like I'm trying to make it sound like he is Branch level. He is not. But he is a nice player, who DOES show up when it matters.

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The start of the 3rd is when we are starting to define clutch? Brady has tossed to different guys 3 times straight in a no huddle situation when the D match ups gave it to him which was the case in the Den game. He's done it with multiple WRs so I'm not about to call that clutch. Final drive or two when we needed a score or we loss (like in NO) sure but at the beginning of a half where the situational miss match was present in no huddle? Atl he was consistently good all game but I wouldn't call that clutch just a great game overall. Really NO is the only game I can point to and say that was a must need clutch play on his part. I can also go back and point out in 4th quarters him dropping a ball or two that would have extended a series so how are you defining clutch is all I'm asking. When he comes up with more than 1 game where him making a difficult catch and is a difference maker I'll be happy to label him such but to me labeling him clutch is putting him on the same level as Faulk, Brown, and Branch in the SB years and he has a lot more games ahead of him before you can put him in the same group as far as clutch catches make. People toss around the Clutch term way to often like Amendola was clutch when we signed him apparently. Still have no clue where that came for, at least Thompkins got 1 clutch catch before you labeled him that. 

 
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    Re: Thompkins

    IMO clutch is more than last 2 minutes. Denver game opening drive 3rd quarter is clutch because it's a 'must have' situation. From that point there was no margin for error at all. So that would be my definition. Delivering in must have situations.

    For me that is twice in 12 games. Yes, the Atlanta game was good more than clutch.

    And I have never called DA clutch

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    Re: Thompkins

    I still think Thompkins has a long ways to go but its obvious he has done the most of the 3 guys picked up last year. Not as much upside as boyce, not the pedigree of Dobson but he is out there with the ones. He is ahead of everyone not named Danny and Julian and Gronk. That being said, when did fans develop such high expectations for an UDFA? I dont see any warranted criticism with this guy. If I told you guys KT was gonna end up having a troy brown type career, most here would be thrilled. Soooo, lets revisit how his career started and how he progressed, shall we.. Since he is in the Pats hall of fame, surely he is the standard...


     


     


     


    Brown was drafted by the Patriots out of Marshall in the 8th round of the 1993 NFL Draft (198th overall). He was waived as a final cut in the 1993 preseason but was re-signed on October 19, 1993.[5] It wasn't until the 1995 season that he started seeing time as a wide receiver, recording 14 catches for 159 yards. The next season in 1996, when the New England Patriots reached the Super Bowl, he recorded 21 catches for 222 yards. In 1997 he recorded 41 catches for 607 yards and 6 touchdowns despite being behind both Terry Glenn and Shawn Jefferson on the depth chart at receiver as well as competing with Ben Coates and Vincent Brisby for catches. In 1998, he resumed his duties as a punt returner.


     


    His first year as a starter was 2000 with 83 catches for 944 yards and 4 touchdowns. In 2001 he, alongside Tom Brady, led the Patriots to their first ever Super Bowl championship, recording 101 catches during the season for 1,199 yards and 5 touchdowns, setting the franchise record for receptions and earning his first trip to a Pro Bowl.


     


     


     


    So you see, it took Brown 4 years in the league to do what KT did his 1st year. Brown was not asked to start until his 8th year in the league! Kt started as a Rookie after playing a lot in preseason.  Terry Glenn? Well he was a 1st rounder, had 96 catches in his rookie year. What about his 2nd year? oh you mean when he spoke the famous words " I DID" and was waltzing around practice bouncing a tennis ball completely healthy saying he had a hammy and was not ready? prompting Parcells to refer to him as "she" well that was Glenn as a young 2nd year player. Oh and then there was the limo incident w/Terry pissing in public. Brown was not always the player he finished his career as. I ran into him one night in Providence after the club. I was talking to a limo full of girls when he arrived and told me it was his limo. It took a few years for these guys to exhaust their desires to party and accept the patriots way and move on to great things(Thx BB). Now a days, all that is lost and people expect UDFA's to come in and catch 80 balls for 1,000 yards or they stink and they all cry for the guy who runs a 4.3 to play over him despite not doing anything. Very strange indeed.


    Most WRs come into the league immature, prima donnas,etc. This guys only knock is talent but he is out there daily busting his hump to get better and gets a lot of hate on here. Take it all into context please.


     I wont compare him to Branch. He was a 2nd rounder w/polish who clicked right away. He also wasnt asked to come in and start like KT was. There are some who think Branchs rookie year was perfect. Actually, he hit a rookie wall as well, playing a backup role! After the bye in week 7, he put up a total of 6 catches in the next 7 games and did not play in the last 3. I guess he was at his ceiling then...truthfully Branch never went over 1,000 yards and I believe KT will before his career is over. Maybe Branch will be lucky to be mentioned with KT when its all said and done....LOL


    Exposed


     


    "A lot of bookies are probably mad at us right now, but we don't give a damn, ... We're the champs!!"


     


    Ty Law after his team defeated the Rams in SB 36.

     
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    Re: Thompkins

    Triple, did you forget KT and Edelman were the only options for a large period of time where in Browns case he was a back of the depth chart player? You can't compare numbers because the situations were completely different not to mention KT is playing in a very WR friendly game while Brown had to fight for every yard downfield. Given KT's issue getting off the line against aggressive CB's I'm not even sure KT would survive in that era. It's why I hate when people try to make direct comparisons using stats when you really can't. It's doesn't work because of rule changes and their position on the team at the time.

    I find it funny you said "That being said, when did fans develop such high expectations for an UDFA?" and then at the very end think Thompkins is going to far surpass Branch...... and who are you saying has high expectations?

    Trust me, I'm an engineer!

     
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    Re: Thompkins

    Knew that Thompkins is a good player, but he got to stay out of injury!!

     

     
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    Re: Thompkins

    In response to PatsEng's comment:


    Triple, did you forget KT and Edelman were the only options for a large period of time where in Browns case he was a back of the depth chart player? You can't compare numbers because the situations were completely different not to mention KT is playing in a very WR friendly game while Brown had to fight for every yard downfield. Given KT's issue getting off the line against aggressive CB's I'm not even sure KT would survive in that era. It's why I hate when people try to make direct comparisons using stats when you really can't. It's doesn't work because of rule changes and their position on the team at the time.


    I find it funny you said "That being said, when did fans develop such high expectations for an UDFA?" and then at the very end think Thompkins is going to far surpass Branch...... and who are you saying has high expectations?


    Trust me, I'm an engineer!



    I dont know what point you are trying to make with the 1st question. Wether its by necessity or not, production is just that. You are gonna sit here and say KT only saw the field due to injury?? Ok, even if true, who cares. DID he produce or not?


    I dont see how you can pick and choose what stats are revelant. My point when I said KT could pass Branch is not me thinking KT is already great, Its me saying Branch was NOT Great. Never had 100 catches, never went over a thousand yards and and his prime when he went to Seattle, he did Squat. He was a very smart player who made clutch passes and was good for this system. Do you remember how the Pats stopped playing him in preseason due him being injured so much??  A guy like R.Moss? well he was great no matter who was throwing. Brad Johnson, Randall Cunningham, Culpepper, Brady,etc. Branch ONLY looked good w/Brady throwing and is NOT a Great WR. This is what I mean..why are people using Branch as a comparion when his career was meh if u take away his SBs?  A guy like Brown who is so revered had a much shakier start to his career then KT but look where he ended up. Thats all I said. I am not gonna entertain your thoughts of Brown having it harder when he played, That is silly and cant be proven anwyay. Lets stick to facts. It took brown until his 4th year to duplicate KTs rookie #'s and he didnt start a season until he was here 8 years!  So I say that to say this....KT has been pretty good and if you think he should have done more, YES you have too high of expectations for an UDFA.

     
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    Re: Thompkins

    In response to TripleOG's comment:






    I dont know what point you are trying to make with the 1st question. Wether its by necessity or not, production is just that. You are gonna sit here and say KT only saw the field due to injury?? Ok, even if true, who cares. DID he produce or not?




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    Did he get benched or not mid season too? You seem to discount that, so why discount one and not the other? A benched palyer when were are thin at the position is an indication BB isn't confident him at that time right? So how can you discount that but in a case where obviously Brady had to force to who was available which increases stats. The fact that once they got Boyce, Dobson, Amendola back KT was the one on the bench should be just as much a factor in this conversation as him getting stats when they weren't available yet you discount one and give credit to the other?


     


    Btw when have I ever once said I expected better stats? I never have so not sure where you got that from, what I said was more on playing style. I didn't like the drops, didn't like him going down immediately, didn't like him not being able to get off the line, didn't like how once bumped off his route he couldn't recover. Non of that is stats it's his style of play and because of that I don't see a high ceiling for him. I'm not expecting Branch type of numbers but you think he can surpass them and yet your expectations are in line and mine are too high? That makes no sense, esp when I said I only expect Caldwell numbers or 2010-12 Branch numbers from him which aren't exactly high to begin with

     
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    Re: Thompkins

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    I still think Thompkins has a long ways to go but its obvious he has done the most of the 3 guys picked up last year. Not as much upside as boyce, not the pedigree of Dobson but he is out there with the ones. He is ahead of everyone not named Danny and Julian and Gronk. That being said, when did fans develop such high expectations for an UDFA? I dont see any warranted criticism with this guy. If I told you guys KT was gonna end up having a troy brown type career, most here would be thrilled. Soooo, lets revisit how his career started and how he progressed, shall we.. Since he is in the Pats hall of fame, surely he is the standard...

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Brown was drafted by the Patriots out of Marshall in the 8th round of the 1993 NFL Draft (198th overall). He was waived as a final cut in the 1993 preseason but was re-signed on October 19, 1993.[5] It wasn't until the 1995 season that he started seeing time as a wide receiver, recording 14 catches for 159 yards. The next season in 1996, when the New England Patriots reached the Super Bowl, he recorded 21 catches for 222 yards. In 1997 he recorded 41 catches for 607 yards and 6 touchdowns despite being behind both Terry Glenn and Shawn Jefferson on the depth chart at receiver as well as competing with Ben Coates and Vincent Brisby for catches. In 1998, he resumed his duties as a punt returner.

     

     

     

    His first year as a starter was 2000 with 83 catches for 944 yards and 4 touchdowns. In 2001 he, alongside Tom Brady, led the Patriots to their first ever Super Bowl championship, recording 101 catches during the season for 1,199 yards and 5 touchdowns, setting the franchise record for receptions and earning his first trip to a Pro Bowl.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    So you see, it took Brown 4 years in the league to do what KT did his 1st year. Brown was not asked to start until his 8th year in the league! Kt started as a Rookie after playing a lot in preseason.  Terry Glenn? Well he was a 1st rounder, had 96 catches in his rookie year. What about his 2nd year? oh you mean when he spoke the famous words " I DID" and was waltzing around practice bouncing a tennis ball completely healthy saying he had a hammy and was not ready? prompting Parcells to refer to him as "she" well that was Glenn as a young 2nd year player. Oh and then there was the limo incident w/Terry pissing in public. Brown was not always the player he finished his career as. I ran into him one night in Providence after the club. I was talking to a limo full of girls when he arrived and told me it was his limo. It took a few years for these guys to exhaust their desires to party and accept the patriots way and move on to great things(Thx BB). Now a days, all that is lost and people expect UDFA's to come in and catch 80 balls for 1,000 yards or they stink and they all cry for the guy who runs a 4.3 to play over him despite not doing anything. Very strange indeed.

     

    Most WRs come into the league immature, prima donnas,etc. This guys only knock is talent but he is out there daily busting his hump to get better and gets a lot of hate on here. Take it all into context please.

     

     I wont compare him to Branch. He was a 2nd rounder w/polish who clicked right away. He also wasnt asked to come in and start like KT was. There are some who think Branchs rookie year was perfect. Actually, he hit a rookie wall as well, playing a backup role! After the bye in week 7, he put up a total of 6 catches in the next 7 games and did not play in the last 3. I guess he was at his ceiling then...truthfully Branch never went over 1,000 yards and I believe KT will before his career is over. Maybe Branch will be lucky to be mentioned with KT when its all said and done....LOL

     

    Exposed

     

     

     

    "A lot of bookies are probably mad at us right now, but we don't give a damn, ... We're the champs!!"

     

     

     

    Ty Law after his team defeated the Rams in SB 36.




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    Great post and comparison. Fans expectations are now off the reservation. This guy was an undrafted FA rookie. This is the NFL. It takes time for guys to figure it out and from what we have seen of KT he is headed in the right direction. It is fair to say we should expect reasonable improvement from all of last years guys given another year in the system and a return to health. I guess Dobson is a ? as he has missed valuable time.

    Julian, Danny, Lafelle and Gronk in our system will probably be as productive as any top 4 receiving options for a team other then Denver imo. KT, Dob, and whoever else makes it is really a bonus.

    Would anybody be surprised to see something like this?

    Edelman 90 receptions 1000 yards 7 tds

    Gronk 75 receptions 1,000 yards 15 tds

    Danny 70 receptions 850 yards 5 tds

    Lafelle(or KT or Dobson) 40-50 receptions 500 - 600 yards 5 tds

    Vareen 50 receptions 500 yards 3 tds

     
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    Re: Thompkins

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

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    Great post and comparison. Fans expectations are now off the reservation. This guy was an undrafted FA rookie. This is the NFL. It takes time for guys to figure it out and from what we have seen of KT he is headed in the right direction. It is fair to say we should expect reasonable improvement from all of last years guys given another year in the system and a return to health. I guess Dobson is a ? as he has missed valuable time.

    Julian, Danny, Lafelle and Gronk in our system will probably be as productive as any top 4 receiving options for a team other then Denver imo. KT, Dob, and whoever else makes it is really a bonus.

    Would anybody be surprised to see something like this?

    Edelman 90 receptions 1000 yards 7 tds

    Gronk 75 receptions 1,000 yards 15 tds

    Danny 70 receptions 850 yards 5 tds

    Lafelle(or KT or Dobson) 40-50 receptions 500 - 600 yards 5 tds

    Vareen 50 receptions 500 yards 3 tds



    If healthy and it is a big IF... I could see Vereen catching close to 70 balls.

     

     
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    Re: Thompkins

    Yeah I went conservative on Vareen. I could see him as a top 5 receiving RB in the league if he plays 16 games, but I'm hoping we spread the ball around more then we have in recent years.

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  • You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Thompkins

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    Yeah I went conservative on Vareen. I could see him as a top 5 receiving RB in the league if he plays 16 games, but I'm hoping we spread the ball around more then we have in recent years.

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    I think this 2 back set is gonna be prevalent in this O with only Gronk as the viable TE we have. I like the Idea of White/Vareen together to get base personnel and then splitting out either one wide. I think between White and Vareen we may see a combined 60-80 catches. I think Tom is more comfy tossing a bone to the RB than throwing to all of the new WRs. I think the main sets we see are 2 back, 1 TE, 2WR and 3 WR sets with one back.

    I dont want Gronk averaging 10 catches per game. In an Ideal world I would love to see..

    Edleman - 80 catches for 850 yards, 4 TDs

    Amendola - 65 catches(miss a couple games) for 670 yards and 3 TDs

    Gronk - 75 catches for 875 and 10 TDs

    Lafell - 60 catches for 750 yards and 8 TDs

    Vareen - 55 catches for 575 and 3 TDs

    KT - 45 catches for 550 yards and 5 TDs

    Dobson - 40 catches for 600 yards(deep threat?) and 5 TDs

    White - 28 catches for 250 yards and 2 TDs

    Id be very happy with something like that. I want to see the ball spread around. Dont need anyone to catch 100 balls.

     

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Thompkins

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    Whether its by necessity or not, production is just that. You are gonna sit here and say KT only saw the field due to injury?? Ok, even if true, who cares. DID he produce or not?

    Triple, there's a train of thought around here that Brady (and Gronk when healthy) is the only talented player on the team surrounded by a bunch of jags and that Brady has put up hall of fame numbers only because he was forced to due to that lack of talent and the players who put up good numbers like Edelman did last year only got those numbers because Brady had no one else to throw to.

     
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