Those Darn Replacement Refs!!!!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from tanbass. Show tanbass's posts

    Re: Those Darn Replacement Refs!!!!

    I still feel like what the regulars are asking for is pocket change to these owners. I am amazed that they can't come together and get the most experienced guys in there to do the job. This should be a non issue. Sure they probably get more than the job is worth already....but the players make thos numbers look like poverty level for what they do....I think we'd all love to have a job that paid that much for such a short time span...who wouldn't? But I also feel like they should have the best people for the job in there asap, and stop arguing over such small amounts of money.

    Bottom line is that I'd rather have over-paid regulars (no matter how jealous I am of their salary)...calling these games the way they should be called.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Those Darn Replacement Refs!!!!

    In response to antibody's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BsLegion's comment:

    and those nitwits last night on NBC kept on harping on the refs . It was almost as if they went out of there way at times to show a mistake the official made. It's not like NFL officials don't make any mistakes , I've seen them screw up games all the time.  Those replacements did a great job IMHO.
    I like when coach Dungy at halftime just butt in and said " THEY'RE DOING A GOOD JOB " when nitwit no1 was going to criticize a play .



    It's funny that announcers criticize these replacements but would rarely if ever point out the mistakes or questionable calls by the regular officials. If the regulars do come back, like to see them get the same treatment as the replacements.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I heard the regular refs called out all the time on the Pats broadcasts. I always heard that it was either a bad or good call or that they missed one there. It just so happens that we notice these ref call outs more because we are looking for them. If they were reg ref we wouldn't be examining every call to see if they got it right or wrong, just the blantently obvious ones
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Those Darn Replacement Refs!!!!

    In response to tanbass comment:

    I still feel like what the regulars are asking for is pocket change to these owners. I am amazed that they can't come together and get the most experienced guys in there to do the job. This should be a non issue. Sure they probably get more than the job is worth already....but the players make thos numbers look like poverty level for what they do....I think we'd all love to have a job that paid that much for such a short time span...who wouldn't? But I also feel like they should have the best people for the job in there asap, and stop arguing over such small amounts of money.

    Bottom line is that I'd rather have over-paid regulars (no matter how jealous I am of their salary)...calling these games the way they should be called.



    It seems the sticking point is the retirement plan. The owners don't want pensions and want to change over to 401ks

    The refs are willing to go to 401ks but the current refs want to be grandfathered in so only new refs would be forced into 401ks

    Now the refs make so much anyways I'm not sure why it would really matter but if they agreed to pensions before taking the job then imo they should get grandfathered in. But, the owners are afraid it would set a precendent for future negotiations with other unions. I say they need to comperimise and the refs switch over to the 401k system but the owners have to match 2x the amount that gets moved from pension to 401k. By then the refs actually come out better but the owners look like they won and avoid setting a standard
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from antibody. Show antibody's posts

    Re: Those Darn Replacement Refs!!!!

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to antibody's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BsLegion's comment:

    and those nitwits last night on NBC kept on harping on the refs . It was almost as if they went out of there way at times to show a mistake the official made. It's not like NFL officials don't make any mistakes , I've seen them screw up games all the time.  Those replacements did a great job IMHO.
    I like when coach Dungy at halftime just butt in and said " THEY'RE DOING A GOOD JOB " when nitwit no1 was going to criticize a play .



    It's funny that announcers criticize these replacements but would rarely if ever point out the mistakes or questionable calls by the regular officials. If the regulars do come back, like to see them get the same treatment as the replacements.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I heard the regular refs called out all the time on the Pats broadcasts. I always heard that it was either a bad or good call or that they missed one there. It just so happens that we notice these ref call outs more because we are looking for them. If they were reg ref we wouldn't be examining every call to see if they got it right or wrong, just the blantently obvious ones

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Could be just my perception. IDK, seems like when a penalty would be called, esp. a questionable pass interference, there would be no replay and an annoucer would go on about what a good call it was. Or sometimes nothing would be said about it at all. This isn't a Pat's predjudice thing, I noticed this in many differeng games on both sides of the ball. Like a don't show up the officials policy.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from AcheNot. Show AcheNot's posts

    Re: Those Darn Replacement Refs!!!!

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    But lets keep this in perspective. They did a good job and if that's how all the replacements refs were then I couldn't see a single issues just keeping them over the regulars but they were the hand picked crew.

    Lets face it, first game on national tv you can bet the owners went to the coaches and over the films and reports and hand chose the best of the replacement refs for this game. There is no doubt in my mind this was the best we will see from the replacement refs.

    The real test is going to come on the non-national braodcast games with smaller media markets. That's where you will see the second and third teir ref'ing that could actually impact the game. Watch Jax and Min, Sea and Ari, Cin and Bal and I'm sure you'll see a much bigger impact. To the really good teams and the really bad teams chances are those mistakes aren't going to make a huge difference honestly. The good teams will still win and the bad teams will still lose but what about the fringe teams. The ones where 1 game could mean the difference between making or missing the playoffs. That could eventually impact the Pats as what if the Giants didn't make the 07' or 12' playoffs. Or what if the Jets just sneak in and we have another annoyance to go through. The impact won't be felt until the last games of the season when the WC's are crowned




    No question about it. I was thinking the same thing

    The head referee in particular looked as if he had been reffing NFL games for years

    The moment was definitely not too big for him to handle

    I say hire him and fire Hochuli 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Those Darn Replacement Refs!!!!

    Personally, I wouldn't want to give up all my weekends from august through january to be a ref. it's not really a part time gig during the season. With all the travel it's like a second full time job. 
    Personally, I wouldn't want it for $150 k. I think getting truly high quality refs for 150k is tough. Most other major pro sports I believe pay more.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Those Darn Replacement Refs!!!!

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    Personally, I wouldn't want to give up all my weekends from august through january to be a ref. it's not really a part time gig during the season. With all the travel it's like a second full time job. 
    Personally, I wouldn't want it for $150 k. I think getting truly high quality refs for 150k is tough. Most other major pro sports I believe pay more.



    Personally I wouldn't work a second full time job if I made $150k a year. I'd be happy being part time and making $150k for less work and perfect my craft. I mean $150k should be their primary jobs, what are these refs CEO's in their other jobs?
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Those Darn Replacement Refs!!!!

    Pro - first I miss the edit button but second a 2nd job is a lifestyle choice for them, it's not forced on them in order to survive. Most people who have to work 2 jobs need the money to support their family. If your second job pays $150k you are not working both jobs because you need to you are doing it because you want to live a rich lifestyle. At that point it's a personal choice which lifestyle you want to live and whether you want to work that second job or not. Of course you can also live off of $150k too so they can also chose to have that as their only job and they'd still be fine.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Those Darn Replacement Refs!!!!

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    Personally, I wouldn't want to give up all my weekends from august through january to be a ref. it's not really a part time gig during the season. With all the travel it's like a second full time job. 
    Personally, I wouldn't want it for $150 k. I think getting truly high quality refs for 150k is tough. Most other major pro sports I believe pay more.



    Personally I wouldn't work a second full time job if I made $150k a year. I'd be happy being part time and making $150k for less work and perfect my craft. I mean $150k should be their primary jobs, what are these refs CEO's in their other jobs?

     

    [/QUOTE]Apparently a lot of them are lawyers and other high paid professionals or small business owners.  So they probably don't do it solely for the money. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Those Darn Replacement Refs!!!!

    Hate posting from an iPad.  Didn't mean to post an incomplete reply.  All I'm saying is the quality of the talent the NFL seems to want to hire (lawyers, etc, who can easily make $300k or more in their regular jobs) might not want to give up weekends for six months for 150k.  Sure, they could  find a lot of average workers who would gladly work a part time job for 150k- but if they think it's important to hire lawyers they might have to pay more.  It is a fairly demanding part-time job with the travel and responsibility and public visibility, so not everyone is going to be cut out to succeed at it.  Other sports are paying 200k and more for their umps and refs, so I'm not surprised the NFL refs want equivalent pay.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Those Darn Replacement Refs!!!!

    CEOs of public companies, by the way, make millions or tens of millions, so 150K is chump change to most of them. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Those Darn Replacement Refs!!!!

    hey pro-

    Ceo of public companies might make millions but they are few and far between. Most CEO's are private businesses and small businesses. I'll deal with a lot of them in my industry and trust me they make in the low to mid range 6 figures not millions are there are far more of them then ones that make millions

    But again you didn't dispute my post. If they are already making well into the six figures then they don't need to work a second job at that point they either lov to do it or it's about the money, one or the other. That's still their choice not the NFL's. As such I'm not about to feel bad for a person who makes $150k part time as their choice when they already make 6 figures to begin with.

    BTW those other refs, ref'ing is their primary job as they do study and practice in the offseason not to mention the seasons are much longer in all the other sports. Per time spent the NFL refs make more then the other refs just not compared yearly. If those refs were to quit their other jobs and make ref'ing their primary focus as a job then I'm sure the NFL would pay better.

    But, the NFL already agreed to a raise the fight is over pensions vs 401k's. The refs want pensions and the NFL wants a 401k. Well since the refs are making $150k and have another job making in the six figure range well I'm not going to exactly side with them over getting pensions when I don't even make six figures and and scraping what I can to put in my 401k
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Those Darn Replacement Refs!!!!

    Yeah, I understand where you're coming from PatsEng, but when it comes to money it's never about what's "fair pay".  If that were the case, then our soldiers in Afghanistan would all be millionaires.  The issue is always about what you need to pay to get the type of talent you want.  If the NFL wants guys with the skills to be lawyers in their regular work, they probably are going to have to cough up a lot of money to get them.  A guy making $300 or $400K a year probably isn't going to give up half his weekends each year for a relatively small amount of money.  He's going to want something in the vicinity of $200K or a good perk like a nice pension.  Now maybe the NFL has decided they can get by with a less "elite" style of ref--and then maybe they're smart holding firm and pushing the pay down for the refs, because they are really "buying" something more than they need when they hire lawyers to be their umpires.  But the NFL is the most popular sport in large part because they do everything at the highest quality.  Weekend "amateurs" (at a time when other pro sports are hiring full time refs at $200 and $300K) just seem anachronistic to me in the NFL. My guess is if the NFL ends up just replacing the "real" refs with the replacement refs, they'll end up with another labor dispute soon enough as the new refs start to realize they're underpaid relative to hockey, baseball, and even basketball refs.  If they don't want the liabilities associated with a pension plan (and most businesses don't anymore), then they probably should make a trade off with the refs where they concede a bit on the salary front in order to get a concession of the pension termination.  As it is, they are trying to squeeze the refs on the pension side while providing pretty low increases in salary.  That seems a bit tightfisted for such a spectacularly successful sport that really relies on good refereeing to maintain the integrity of the game. 

    Then again, it's the modus operandi for the $20-million-per-year Goodell. 


     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Those Darn Replacement Refs!!!!

    Just to put things in perspective--Goodell's salary is roughtly equivalent to the salaries of all the NFL refs combined . . .  

    Quoted from CBS Sports:

    Roger Goodell recently received a five-year contract extension from the NFL, and according to a report, his salary will "double" up to $20 million annually by the end of the deal.

    That news comes from  Daniel Kaplan of the Sports Business Journal, who also reports that Arthur Blank,  Falconsowner and head of the NFL's compensation committee, said Goodell's new deal will "bring Goodell in line [financially] with other top sports commissioners."

    “If you compare [Goodell] to any of the other commissioners in other sports, we think he would rank very high in that group, and he needs to be compensated on that basis,” Blank said at the Super Bowl.

    MLB commissioner Bud Selig made $18.35 million in 2007, per Kaplan, and has since received two contract extensions. It is a logical assumption that Selig is paid more than $20 million annually at this point.

    Goodell received $9.89 million in base salary according to federal tax returns filed by the NFL last year. Though we won't know the actual number of Goodell's new base salary until the next time the NFL files its tax returns (which could be as early as Wednesday), it stands to reason that Goodell will see a significant bump in his base, given that he received the extension just a few weeks ago.

    And while the response from NFL players on Twitter -- Falcons wide receiver  Roddy White wondered " How in the hell can [you] pay a man this much money that cant run tackle or catch" -- hasn't been ideal, it's difficult to get too angry at what Goodell's bringing in.

    The NFL successfully navigated a potentially brutal lockout, came away with new television deals and is poised to continue growing exponentially between now and the end of Goodell's newest contract.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from palookaski. Show palookaski's posts

    Re: Those Darn Replacement Refs!!!!

    New Refs doing a good job, so far. They obviously will be issues on calls, just like the regulars. The regular refs always took some heat on calls by fans so I expect the term 'New Refs' will be constant fodder. They seem to allow a more open game and that is good.

    Where and how the League chose them, I'm not sure but assume from the College ranks. The hundreds of refs from all the College conferences must have a dossier made up from their experience and that would be the selection criteria.

    Another issue is if the 'replacements' act out the full year then they may want to unionized. Now we have TWO Unions clashing helmuts. The NFL taking the brunt of legal action. Huh?

    Good night ...
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from antibody. Show antibody's posts

    Re: Those Darn Replacement Refs!!!!

    Or not.
     
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