Tired of Welker dropping critical passes.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriots. Show themightypatriots's posts

    Re: Tired of Welker dropping critical passes.

    Welker is the key to the offense, the best player on offense by far (after Tom Brady).

    That said, his numerous drops this season on passes very similar to his Super Bowl drop should remove all doubt that it was truly his fault and not Tom Brady's.  It doesn't mean he's a bad player or anything, even the best wide receivers drop balls from time to time.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from TSWFAN. Show TSWFAN's posts

    Re: Tired of Welker dropping critical passes.

    In response to TSWFAN's comment:

    I know who the Pats can replace Welker with. The guy[s] catches everything thrown at him. Now if we can just get that guy[s] to leave this board and sign a contract!!!!



    has BB signed  anyone off this board yet?

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccnsd. Show ccnsd's posts

    Re: Tired of Welker dropping critical passes.

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    In response to ccnsd's comment:

    I agree with you overrall on the Welker issue but these numbers are completely meaningless. These recievers have diferrent QB's throwing the ball making the comparison completely unscientific and therefore useless. Let me see the numbers comparing him to Lloyd, Gronkowski and Hernandez (probably the primary replacement if Welker leaves). Since we both agree that Brady is probably the best QB in the game it's a bit unfair for Fitgerald that since Warner retired his QB's have generally been terrible. I like Welker a lot but he did drop an easy TD pass today which cost them 4 points. Not all drops are equal as you know. A dropped pass on first down when the team still gets a first down on the next two plays is less important than a TD drop which contributes to 3 points instead of 7 (or worse if the field goal gets blocked).




    OKay, let's take Brandon Lloyd, we all know he drops passes, how does that impact his reception/target %... Well this year Brandon Lloyd has (through 11 games) been targeted 88 times and has 50 receptions, which is 56.82%.  Same QB as Welker, so do dropped pass influence these numbers?  You bet they do!!  Time to stop the lame and silly Welker is getting old and drops too many passes crazyness.  The Patriots need to resign this man!!




    Perfect. then according to your stats Welker is better than Lloyd (my eyesight has allready shown this) but Gronkowski is better than Welker which most would agree with. Drop stats are still more meaningful for this discussion (which you keep avoiding). According to NBC Welker had 6 drops going into yesterdays game which put him in the top 20 (the leader was Cruz with 9). No other Pats was on the list and the list only includes the top 20 so who knows where the other Pats are. The majority of the players on the list are good players who get thrown to a lot. I like Welker a lot but sticking my head in the sand and saying he didn't drop another TD pass yesterday which could have haunted them if the defense had no played so well is living in fantasy football land where drops don't count against you. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriots. Show themightypatriots's posts

    Re: Tired of Welker dropping critical passes.

    Welker is better than Gronk.  Gronk makes some big plays but Welker moves the chains.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Tired of Welker dropping critical passes.

    When did the drop happen? I think I missed it.  Which quarter?

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from glenr. Show glenr's posts

    Re: Tired of Welker dropping critical passes.

    We won yesterday didn't we? One would think he dropped the game tying pass and we lost. So Welker dropped one, Brady overthrew 2 TDS. I guess we should cut the both of them.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoMorePensionLooting. Show NoMorePensionLooting's posts

    Re: Tired of Welker dropping critical passes.

    In response to themightypatriots' comment:

    Welker is better than Gronk.  Gronk makes some big plays but Welker moves the chains.




    OK...I love Welker and pray he stays on this team going forward....

    Now....that being said.....he ain't better than Gronk...

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriots. Show themightypatriots's posts

    Re: Tired of Welker dropping critical passes.

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:

    OK...I love Welker and pray he stays on this team going forward....

    Now....that being said.....he ain't better than Gronk...

     

    Fine.  You take the offense without Welker and I'll take the offense without Gronk.  I win.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Tired of Welker dropping critical passes.

    In response to ccnsd's comment:


    Welker's is not a lot higher than everyone on that list. It appears to be the same or less than Gronkowski's since Moss left. Brady's weakness is the deep ball, certainly not on the dink and dunk passes that Welker, Hernandez and Gronkowski specialize in. Show the drop stats and not the percentageas whichn appear to be biased towards the quality of a player's QB if you want to refute an argument about dropped passes. By the way, where did you get your numbers for 2012. According to Stats inc Welker is below 70% in 2012 behind Gronkowski. Welker wasn't even in the top 20.




    Welker is extremely higher then everyone on that list.  It doesn't matter if it is a deep ball or a short ball, the key is getting open and catching a pass that you are targeted for.  Welker does this better then any WR  in the NFL.  Also take note in CATCHES the target.  If he is getting so old and starting to drop so many passes he would not be leading this stat.  Also, per drops the Cruze was tied with Graham at 9, Welker had 6 and Calvin Johnson had 7.  Based on drops per target Welker drops 1 per 13.83 targets, Cruz drops 1 per 11.11 targets and Calvin Johnson drops 1 per 11.71 targets.  Once again, there goes everyones theory about Welker getting old and dropping so many passes.  I guess Cruz and Johnson are not very dependable, maybe they are getting old with so many dropped passes.

    BTW, ESPN stats show targets.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Tired of Welker dropping critical passes.

    In response to ccnsd's comment:



    Perfect. then according to your stats Welker is better than Lloyd (my eyesight has allready shown this) but Gronkowski is better than Welker which most would agree with. Drop stats are still more meaningful for this discussion (which you keep avoiding). According to NBC Welker had 6 drops going into yesterdays game which put him in the top 20 (the leader was Cruz with 9). No other Pats was on the list and the list only includes the top 20 so who knows where the other Pats are. The majority of the players on the list are good players who get thrown to a lot. I like Welker a lot but sticking my head in the sand and saying he didn't drop another TD pass yesterday which could have haunted them if the defense had no played so well is living in fantasy football land where drops don't count against you. 



    All players drop passes, even TD passes.  But people continue to bit¢h and moan about Welker is unreliable because of dropped passes.  Show me where this is true!!  Not only do I prove he gets open and catches a much higher % of his targets then any other top wide receiver but then I post this....

    per drops Cruz was tied with Graham at 9, Welker had 6 and Calvin Johnson had 7.  Based on drops per target Welker drops 1 per 13.83 targets, Cruz drops 1 per 11.11 targets and Calvin Johnson drops 1 per 11.71 targets. 

    There goes everyones theory about Welker getting old and dropping so many passes.  I guess Cruz and Johnson are not very dependable, maybe they are getting old with so many dropped passes.

    The numbers are there, any way you want to look at it.  Welker continues to put up high numbers, be a top receiver at this stage of his career.  People saying Welker is old, don't sign him he is to old all I gotta say is.... You are not paying attention!

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Tired of Welker dropping critical passes.

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    In response to MoreRings' comment:

    Agree with all. Don't tell tfb12!




    Too late!  I heard you guys talking crap already.

    Who is going to call out AH81 from dropping some passes today, well a lot of games.  Heck, I think all the Pats receivers drop passes, why get on Welker?  He's still the best and most successful WR for the Pats...of all time!!

    Last I checked Wes Welker led the league in consecutive seasons with receptions per targets.  Matter of fact, he out shines all major receivers in this category.  Talk about drops all you want but I will take receptions per target all day long!!  Let me refresh your memories here....

    and this was through week 9 this season.  I'm sure his numbers now smokes them all even more. 

    Do you really want me to update this and prove all you "Welker drops passes" people how silly your comments are?  Give me receptions per targets over the lame dropped passes argument all day long!!!  Welker is a beast!! Sign this beast next year!! Matter of fact, hey Mr. Kraft, start savinging you money now, we need Welker next year and the year after!




    Jesus, this about ends this debate.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Tired of Welker dropping critical passes.

    In response to TSWFAN's comment:

    In response to TSWFAN's comment:

    I know who the Pats can replace Welker with. The guy[s] catches everything thrown at him. Now if we can just get that guy[s] to leave this board and sign a contract!!!!



    has BB signed  anyone off this board yet?




    Who should I give my contact info to?

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TSWFAN. Show TSWFAN's posts

    Re: Tired of Welker dropping critical passes.

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    In response to TSWFAN's comment:

    In response to TSWFAN's comment:

    I know who the Pats can replace Welker with. The guy[s] catches everything thrown at him. Now if we can just get that guy[s] to leave this board and sign a contract!!!!



    has BB signed  anyone off this board yet?




    Who should I give my contact info to?



    Mike Reiss, I'm sure he is connected.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Tired of Welker dropping critical passes.

    In response to TSWFAN's comment:


    Mike Reiss, I'm sure he is connected.



    Hello Mike Reiss, are you on here?  I have my contact info ready to give to you if you would be so kind to pass it on to the Grand Poobah!

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tomhab. Show Tomhab's posts

    Re: Tired of Welker dropping critical passes.

    In response to JintsFan's comment:

    In response to shenanigan's comment:

    In response to Rerun85's comment:

    In response to shenanigan's comment:

    Tremendous catch, no way.  Easy catch that bounced off his hands.




    Maybe for you it was easy but not for Welker



    I would say any receiver in the NFL, any receiver in college, most receivers in highschool, and half the guys in my backyard pickup game could make that catch 99.9% of the time.  There was nothing especially difficult about it.



    and pats fans think jets fans are dumb!



    Thanks for admitting you're a Jest fan...LoL

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tomhab. Show Tomhab's posts

    Re: Tired of Welker dropping critical passes.

    In response to JintsFan's comment:

    In response to Tomhab's comment:

    In response to JintsFan's comment:

    In response to shenanigan's comment:

    In response to Rerun85's comment:

    In response to shenanigan's comment:

    Tremendous catch, no way.  Easy catch that bounced off his hands.




    Maybe for you it was easy but not for Welker



    I would say any receiver in the NFL, any receiver in college, most receivers in highschool, and half the guys in my backyard pickup game could make that catch 99.9% of the time.  There was nothing especially difficult about it.



    and pats fans think jets fans are dumb!



    Thanks for admitting you're a Jest fan...LoL




    hey fatboy! anymore hurricane jokes today? how about tornadoes? suicide? holocaust?

    what we got today fatty?



    Gazer

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccnsd. Show ccnsd's posts

    Re: Tired of Welker dropping critical passes.

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    In response to ccnsd's comment:


    Welker's is not a lot higher than everyone on that list. It appears to be the same or less than Gronkowski's since Moss left. Brady's weakness is the deep ball, certainly not on the dink and dunk passes that Welker, Hernandez and Gronkowski specialize in. Show the drop stats and not the percentageas whichn appear to be biased towards the quality of a player's QB if you want to refute an argument about dropped passes. By the way, where did you get your numbers for 2012. According to Stats inc Welker is below 70% in 2012 behind Gronkowski. Welker wasn't even in the top 20.




    Welker is extremely higher then everyone on that list.  It doesn't matter if it is a deep ball or a short ball, the key is getting open and catching a pass that you are targeted for.  Welker does this better then any WR  in the NFL.  Also take note in CATCHES the target.  If he is getting so old and starting to drop so many passes he would not be leading this stat.  Also, per drops the Cruze was tied with Graham at 9, Welker had 6 and Calvin Johnson had 7.  Based on drops per target Welker drops 1 per 13.83 targets, Cruz drops 1 per 11.11 targets and Calvin Johnson drops 1 per 11.71 targets.  Once again, there goes everyones theory about Welker getting old and dropping so many passes.  I guess Cruz and Johnson are not very dependable, maybe they are getting old with so many dropped passes.

    BTW, ESPN stats show targets.


    Ii still do not see where you are getting your info. Stats inc has Welker with a 69.2 % which is good but not in the top 20. Ronnie Brown is the best in the AFC at 86.5%. Under your reasoning he is better than Welker which is ridiculous. There are other measures than this silly stat to determine the top recievers. Even Pro football outsiders which I believe is a bunch of Pat fans has Welker the 18th best wide reciever in the NFL. Who's the top 2: Calvin Johnson and Andre Johnson. Welker has not drawn one PI call so far this year (at least since the outsider sight was last updated). Welker runs routes that are easier to throw to and therefore his % gets inflated. Ronnie Brown runs even easier routes than Welker so his % is even more inflated. I love Welker and I hope he gets paid but those numbers you show to prove he's better than Andre or Calvin Johnson or Randy Moss in his glory days (in 2007 Moss's % was 61 ) are a fraud. There was a time when Philip Rivers had the best passer rating in the history of the NFL and that was supposed to mean he was better than Brady back then. Me thinks not. Remember you used to be called Brady to Moss not Brady to Welker. 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Tired of Welker dropping critical passes.

    In response to ccnsd's comment:

     

    Ii still do not see where you are getting your info. Stats inc has Welker with a 69.2 % which is good but not in the top 20. Ronnie Brown is the best in the AFC at 86.5%. Under your reasoning he is better than Welker which is ridiculous. There are other measures than this silly stat to determine the top recievers. Even Pro football outsiders which I believe is a bunch of Pat fans has Welker the 18th best wide reciever in the NFL. Who's the top 2: Calvin Johnson and Andre Johnson. Welker has not drawn one PI call so far this year (at least since the outsider sight was last updated). Welker runs routes that are easier to throw to and therefore his % gets inflated. Ronnie Brown runs even easier routes than Welker so his % is even more inflated. I love Welker and I hope he gets paid but those numbers you show to prove he's better than Andre or Calvin Johnson or Randy Moss in his glory days (in 2007 Moss's % was 61 ) are a fraud. There was a time when Philip Rivers had the best passer rating in the history of the NFL and that was supposed to mean he was better than Brady back then. Me thinks not. Remember you used to be called Brady to Moss not Brady to Welker. 




    Ronnie Brown is a RB, we are talkin g WR here.  The Point is Wes Welker gets open and CATCHES 72% of the passes that he is targeted.  People are talking about how Welker is getting old and is dropping more balls.  Welker is getting open and CATCHING 72% of his targets.  Better then any top 10 receiver in the NFL.  Would you call that old?  Not me, and that is my point here.  Also, if he was dropping more passes his % of catches per target would be down.  Proves my second point... How can a guy CATCHING 72% of his targeted passes cause such a worry?  It's bogus, because the numbers are right there.  He is catching so much more of his targeted passes then anyone else how can people say he is dropping so many? 

    Also, as I posted earlier, Welker drops 1 pass per 13 targets, Cruz and Calvin Johnson drop 1 pass per ever 11 targets, are they getting old too?  Of course not, yet people say Welker is dropping more passes because he is getting old.  Another bogus claim, the number prove otherwise!!

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from sporter81. Show sporter81's posts

    Re: Tired of Welker dropping critical passes.

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:

    In response to themightypatriots' comment:

    Welker is better than Gronk.  Gronk makes some big plays but Welker moves the chains.




    OK...I love Welker and pray he stays on this team going forward....

    Now....that being said.....he ain't better than Gronk...

     



    I agree, Welker is a key player , moves the chains more than anyone but Gronk is the better player IMO. I hate to even compare because they are both so damn good . Gronk at 23 years old is more valuable I think. As far as dropped passes go Welker is usually sure handed but like most recievers he will drop one from time to time. If not for the Super Bowl drop, which most likely lost the game, nobody would talk about this.

     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccnsd. Show ccnsd's posts

    Re: Tired of Welker dropping critical passes.

    In response to sporter81's comment:

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:

    In response to themightypatriots' comment:

    Welker is better than Gronk.  Gronk makes some big plays but Welker moves the chains.




    OK...I love Welker and pray he stays on this team going forward....

    Now....that being said.....he ain't better than Gronk...

     



    I agree, Welker is a key player , moves the chains more than anyone but Gronk is the better player IMO. I hate to even compare because they are both so damn good . Gronk at 23 years old is more valuable I think. As far as dropped passes go Welker is usually sure handed but like most recievers he will drop one from time to time. If not for the Super Bowl drop, which most likely lost the game, nobody would talk about this.



    Moss only had 61% in 2007 so therefore he was worse in 2007 than Welker is in 2012 according to this meaningless stat that you are using. I do not mind you loving Welker, thats fine i like him too but using a crazy stat that is virtually meaningless to prove your point is the problem to me. The fact that Welker's % is higher than Calvin Johnson's means nothing to me because Welker's as pointed out is higher than Moss's was. Moss ran the tougher routes to throw too so therefore his % was less. Percy Harvin's % is better than Welker's so does that mean Harvin is better. Welker's terrific, a perennial pro bowler and perhaps a hall of famer but he is not better than Calvin Johnson or Andre Johnson right now. He may be better than Hernandez who is his most likely replacement but if Welker wants big dollars the Pats can use his money for a defensive player. Brady won with Branch, Givins and Fauria. He can suceed with Gronkowski, Hernandez, Lloyd and someone else if the defense is better. What is Welker's drop % compared to previous seasons. If it has improved or stayed the same you will have sucessfully proved your point otherwise these stats are a simple smoke screen.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriots. Show themightypatriots's posts

    Re: Tired of Welker dropping critical passes.

    Wow, apparently you can post Neo-Nazi hate speech and not get banned.  What does it take?

     

    • JintsFan
    • Posts: 4601
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Tired of Welker dropping critical passes.

    In response to ccnsd's comment:

    Moss only had 61% in 2007 so therefore he was worse in 2007 than Welker is in 2012 according to this meaningless stat that you are using. I do not mind you loving Welker, thats fine i like him too but using a crazy stat that is virtually meaningless to prove your point is the problem to me. The fact that Welker's % is higher than Calvin Johnson's means nothing to me because Welker's as pointed out is higher than Moss's was. Moss ran the tougher routes to throw too so therefore his % was less. Percy Harvin's % is better than Welker's so does that mean Harvin is better. Welker's terrific, a perennial pro bowler and perhaps a hall of famer but he is not better than Calvin Johnson or Andre Johnson right now. He may be better than Hernandez who is his most likely replacement but if Welker wants big dollars the Pats can use his money for a defensive player. Brady won with Branch, Givins and Fauria. He can suceed with Gronkowski, Hernandez, Lloyd and someone else if the defense is better. What is Welker's drop % compared to previous seasons. If it has improved or stayed the same you will have sucessfully proved your point otherwise these stats are a simple smoke screen.




    Yes, Wes Welker was better then Randy Moss in 07 in getting open and catching his targeted passes.  That's it!  That's all I am saying!  I'm not saying who was the best receiver, I am saying Welker got open and caught a much higher percentage of his tarkets then Randy Moss did that season.  Welke probably had the highest % of all the receivers that season, thats a huge %!

    Now a lot of people are saying Welker is getting old and dropping passes, yet this number for 2012 shows that he is still the leader in getting open and CATCHING his targeted passes.  These numbers prove that those peoples argument is lame, silly, a joke!!

     
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