to all the BB GM naysayers

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from p-mike. Show p-mike's posts

    Re: to all the BB GM naysayers

    In Response to Re: to all the BB GM naysayers:
    [QUOTE]Two lost SBs and a lost AFC Championship in 6 years is super fail. [/QUOTE]

    This right here^ is exactly what is wrong with 21st century Pats fan and you can well believe me when I tell you we won't miss you at all.

    Outside of maybe Bitchburgh and, just lately, the blue part of New Jersey, I can't think of another NFL fan base that wouldn't salivate at the idea of realistically competing for championships year-in and year-out the way the Pats do.

    I'm sorry it offends your bandwagon sensibilities that the Pats don't win the Super Bowl every single year and gift-wrap it especially for you, but that's not the way the world works.


    Oh . . .  and you can save all that "I've been a fan since . . .  " bullsqueeze. You show what type of fan you are with every post.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from unclealfie. Show unclealfie's posts

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    [QUOTE]The Steelers seem to Draft good every year, I wouldn't worry about them. We Draft Tate, they Draft Wallace after us.
    Posted by bobbysu[/QUOTE]

    That's one player. I wouldn't trade their picks from the last 10 years for ours, that's for sure. Likewise, their playoff record, including their two SB wins vs. NFL powerhouses arizona and seattle.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from unclealfie. Show unclealfie's posts

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    In Response to Re: to all the BB GM naysayers:
    [QUOTE]27 words. And I'm sure there could be more. Cunningham, Price, Brace, Butler, Tate, McKenzie, Wheatley, Crable, O'Connell, Meriweather, Moroney, Jackson, Hobbs, Hill, Johnson, Williams, Davey, Klemm, Redmond, Haynesworth, Ocho, Ellis, Starks, Beisel, Brown, Thomas, Galloway
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    This means nothing away from the context of what the other 31 GMs have done over the same time period. I believe BB is in the top 10% as far as draft success stories.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from sporter81. Show sporter81's posts

    Re: to all the BB GM naysayers

    Saw a stat the other day saying that no team in any major professional sport has close to the record of the Patriots over the past 10 years. BB builds teams that can withstand injuries and compete. How did the Colts do last year when they lost Manning? 

    Some of the fans here are critical of BB because they see teams drafting pro-bowlers while ignoring the pro bowlers that BB drafts. In the end, how do the Patriots fare year in and year out compared to everyone else? Speaking of drafts, who had the best draft of any team in 2010? Look up how some of the outsiders rate the NFL GM's. Nearly every one will have BB in the top 5. Its really stupid to even argue, like saying Brady stinks as a QB..
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: to all the BB GM naysayers

    In Response to Re: to all the BB GM naysayers:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: to all the BB GM naysayers : Yup, being on top of the Division (6x) and Conference (2x) in that period, really sucks.  I say, fire the whole team and start over. I wonder how many here apply such measurables to their own careers?
    Posted by pezz4pats[/QUOTE]

    I think 6 division championships and two conference championships in seven years is a pretty good accomplishment, but you cannot compare sports to other careers. Things are not measured the same. The second place teams is all but forgotten, while third and fourth best teams are completely forgotten each year.

    In that span (2005-2011) which is more impressive:
    6x Division Champion, 2x Conference Champion, 0x Super Bowl Champion
    5x Division Champion, 2x Conference Champion, 1x Super Bowl Champion
    4x Division Champion, 2x Conference Champion, 2x Super Bowl Champion
    5x Division Champion, 3x Conference Champion, 2x Super Bowl Champion 
    The other three teams are the Colts, Giants and Steelers respectively.

    My point is that the Patriots have not been dominating the NFL lately the way a lot of Patriots fan seem to think. If feel like arguments that rely on the run from 2001-2004 are becoming stale and irrelevant to the current team. 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from HaverhillBob. Show HaverhillBob's posts

    Re: to all the BB GM naysayers

    In Response to to all the BB GM naysayers:
    [QUOTE] I think recent events show that BB the GM has done arguably the best job of any GM in the NFL for his tenure as coach / GM ( albeit Pioli was GM in the early years .. but BB was not without influence in the structuring of those teams). the Pats, Colts, and Steelers were the benchmark organizations since the turn of the century ( love saying that!). But today we see the Colts coming off a 2 win season and in a true rebuilding stage that could be another 2 years before they become competitive. The Steelers are in CAP HELL and are having a fire sale , letting players ( contributors ) go. the Pats have restructured their team without a blip. Ok no Championships  but 3 AFC cahampionship games and 2 SB appearances. How many other NFL team fans would like to have that? Like Indy we lost our QB for a year but still accomplished an 11-5 record (normal years would have been a playoff team). Indy went 2-14. So BB the  GM decision for staffing the team with a 7th round QB that never started a game in college proved quite fortuitous in proving more than capable depth at the most important position. Injuries are a part of the NFL but it seems that there is always a Sterling Moore, Randall Gay, Troy Brown amd Julius Eddleman that can step up for the Pats. These are Defense examples ..but  just look at how the OL always seems to overcome injuries. Most NFL teams are devestated when injuries hit because they dont have depth..  how would you like to be a Bears fan and of course the affore mentioned Colts. We are coming off a 13-3 , 14-2 seasons and a close SB loss. We have Cap Space and oh yeah picks 27, 31 , 48 and 63 in this years draft. I am pretty happy with BB the GM PS : looking back I suppose we really should give Bill Poilian GM kudos. He shrewdly was able to mold this years Indy team to be able to position them to get Andrew Luck.
    Posted by mgraham[/QUOTE]

    Do you know what the difference is between losing the superbowl and going winless?  You get a worse draft pick for losing the superbowl.  Don't try to play up how great we've done since 2004.  We haven't.  Whne you have TB for as your QB, anything other than winning the SB is failure.  Blame BB for not giving him a good D and a good running game while sitting far below the cap EVERY year.  
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: to all the BB GM naysayers

    In Response to Re: to all the BB GM naysayers:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: to all the BB GM naysayers : This right here^ is exactly what is wrong with 21st century Pats fan and you can well believe me when I tell you we won't miss you at all. Outside of maybe Bitchburgh and, just lately, the blue part of New Jersey, I can't think of another NFL fan base that wouldn't salivate at the idea of realistically competing for championships year-in and year-out the way the Pats do. I'm sorry it offends your bandwagon sensibilities that the Pats don't win the Super Bowl every single year and gift-wrap it especially for you, but that's not the way the world works. Oh . . .  and you can save all that "I've been a fan since . . .  " bullsqueeze. You show what type of fan you are with every post.
    Posted by p-mike[/QUOTE]

    Thank you P-mike. I was piecing together a similar post as I read through all of this rubbish but you took care of it. When the wheels come off and we have our first losing season in 11 fukcin years I MAY begin to question the GM/talent pool of the team, but thats only because it will probably be due to the departure of Bill Belichick, and not his "failure" as a GM.

    Best record in the league for last 10 years.
    5 Super bowls.
    More 1st round picks then any team in 10 years.
    2 of the best trades in NFL history(YEP) with the Moss and Welker deals,
    Oh btw the construction of a dynasty.

    Bill Belichick is a bad GM = EPIC FAILURE
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: to all the BB GM naysayers

    In Response to Re: to all the BB GM naysayers:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: to all the BB GM naysayers : I think 6 division championships and two conference championships in seven years is a pretty good accomplishment, but you cannot compare sports to other careers. Things are not measured the same. The second place teams is all but forgotten, while third and fourth best teams are completely forgotten each year. In that span (2005-2011) which is more impressive: 6x Division Champion, 2x Conference Champion, 0x Super Bowl Champion 5x Division Champion, 2x Conference Champion,  1x Super Bowl Champion 4x Division Champion, 2x Conference Champion, 2x Super Bowl Champion 5x Division Champion, 3x Conference Champion, 2x Super Bowl Champion   The other three teams are the Colts, Giants and Steelers respectively. My point is that the Patriots have not been dominating the NFL lately the way a lot of Patriots fan seem to think. If feel like arguments that rely on the run from 2001-2004 are becoming stale and irrelevant to the current team. 
    Posted by FrnkBnhm[/QUOTE]

    Naturally the SB is the ultimate prize but Division and Conference wins are also recognised accomplishments as they are in all team sports.
    Ask all the other teams who rarely achieve them, if they'd "settle" for a few of those.  I think they would be ecstatic.
    It's only the fans of Winning teams that define those as faults and failures.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: to all the BB GM naysayers

    To those of you ignorant enough to think Pioli was responsible for the building of the dynasty....


    "When Belichick accepted the Patriots' head coaching position in 2000, Pioli accepted the GM job and the two eventually became the first personnel director/head coach tandem in league annals to win three Super Bowls during a four-year span (2001–2004).[1] He and Belichick split the duties usually held by a general manager on most other NFL teams, though Belichick had the final say"

    "In 1992, Pioli was hired as a pro personnel assistant by Bill Belichick, then the head coach of the Cleveland Browns. Pioli's relationship with Belichick dated back to the mid-1980s, when as a student at Central Connecticut, Pioli would drive 90 minutes to the New York Giants training camp. Through a mutual friend, Pioli was introduced to then-Giants defensive coordinator Belichick, who was impressed at Pioli's dedication to travel to each practice and offered him a place to stay.[2]"

    Wikipedia.


    Pioli is where he is because of Bill Belichick, not the other way around.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: to all the BB GM naysayers

    In Response to Re: to all the BB GM naysayers:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: to all the BB GM naysayers : Naturally the SB is the ultimate prize but Division and Conference wins are also recognised accomplishments as they are in all team sports. Ask all the other teams who rarely achieve them, if they'd "settle" for a few of those.  I think they would be ecstatic. It's only the fans of Winning teams that define those as faults and failures.
    Posted by pezz4pats[/QUOTE]

    They are accomplishment. Let's start hanging Division Champion banners the way the Bruins did for years. 

    This thread started by claiming that BB had done the best job of any GM since the "turn of the century". My point is that if you look at the window since the last Super Bowl victory, there are three teams who have been better than the Patriots over that stretch. I am not saying the Patriots record in that time is not impressive. I am saying that teams who have as many or more Super Bowl appearances and more Super Bowl titles have done better than them over that stretch.

    Are the Patriots clearly better than about 80% of the NFL? Yes, defintely! 

    Are the best team in the NFL over the past seven years. Not by a long shot, unless you really prefer regular season wins over championships.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from HaverhillBob. Show HaverhillBob's posts

    Re: to all the BB GM naysayers

    In Response to Re: to all the BB GM naysayers:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: to all the BB GM naysayers : Thank you P-mike. I was piecing together a similar post as I read through all of this rubbish but you took care of it. When the wheels come off and we have our first losing season in 11 fukcin years I MAY begin to question the GM/talent pool of the team, but thats only because it will probably be due to the departure of Bill Belichick, and not his "failure" as a GM. Best record in the league for last 10 years. 5 Super bowls. More 1st round picks then any team in 10 years. 2 of the best trades in NFL history(YEP) with the Moss and Welker deals, Oh btw the construction of a dynasty. Bill Belichick is a bad GM = EPIC FAILURE
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    Better check your math of how far back 10 years goes

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from manowar333. Show manowar333's posts

    Re: to all the BB GM naysayers

    All is fine if you want to just be a winner in the regular season.  But this team hasn't won a Superbowl since the core of the team a different Bill with a different last name put together left.  BB has lived on the fringes of Parcell's coat tails since he was a dc with the Giants in the 80's.  Parcells built that team... BB coached it...  Fast forward a few years when BB took over the Pats... Parcells built it, BB coached it.  If not for the luck of the Brady pick, this team would have been back at the bottom of the NFL cellar shortly after all of Parcell's defensive players retired.
    When BB actually drafts a stud defensive player instead of trading down for value and develops them into a force, then I'll change my tune. 

    He's just pizzing away Brady's twilight years with this "I can take a guy off the street and plug him in at any position" mentality.  This isn't to say the the offense doesn't have it's fair share of issues and needs too, but considering everyone likes to paint BB as this all-knowing defensive guru, go back and look at what he's accomplished with his own draft picks and free agents, compared to what he's he accomplished with guys Parcells drafted. 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

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    In Response to Re: to all the BB GM naysayers:
    [QUOTE]Saw a stat the other day saying that no team in any major professional sport has close to the record of the Patriots over the past 10 years. BB builds teams that can withstand injuries and compete. How did the Colts do last year when they lost Manning?  Some of the fans here are critical of BB because they see teams drafting pro-bowlers while ignoring the pro bowlers that BB drafts. In the end, how do the Patriots fare year in and year out compared to everyone else? Speaking of drafts, who had the best draft of any team in 2010? Look up how some of the outsiders rate the NFL GM's. Nearly every one will have BB in the top 5. Its really stupid to even argue, like saying Brady stinks as a QB..
    Posted by sporter81[/QUOTE]

    Next year it will be "the last 11 years".
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

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    In Response to Re: to all the BB GM naysayers:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: to all the BB GM naysayers : I'd say coaching first, QB second, and a few key other players third (Moss, Gronk, Welker, etc.).  BB's biggest strength is the ability to get the most from guys who may have odd or limited talent but are smart and can adjust to complex or unusual schemes.  BB is great at designing schemes that allow individuals to succeed.  That's probably the biggest key to the team's ongoing success.  Overall talent level is definitely not the strength of the team . . .
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]


    I would say Brady first, BB the coach second. We will find out soon enough.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

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    In Response to Re: to all the BB GM naysayers:
    [QUOTE]We went to the Super Bowl, have two #1 picks this year to go with a slew of 2nds, 3rds and beyond... plus we already have the QB of the future sitting on the bench in Ryan Mallett. If you say the Patriot problem (if there is one?) isn't the loss of Charlie Weis as well as all the young coaches being poached from our team before they're ready to be head coaches elsewhere, in short if you're saying BB isn't a good GM or that we lack talent then than you're a complete F-tard.   Look around, count your blessings, we could be the Bengal's...
    Posted by wozzy[/QUOTE]


    You've already got Mallet as an NFL success. Brilliant. F-tard.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

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    In Response to Re: to all the BB GM naysayers:
    [QUOTE]No question about it, every poster on this forum could do a better job of drafting talent than BB.  Yeah, I know; really sarcastic eh?  Well guess what?  For those who question BB's drafting prowess I offer the following: http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_3749_Decade_in_the_making%3A_the_ultimate_NFL_draft_grades.html Now, by all means, find as much fault with the thread as you wish. 
    Posted by ATJ[/QUOTE]


    We've seen this stupid CHFF article before. And its flaws have been pointed out before.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: to all the BB GM naysayers

    In Response to Re: to all the BB GM naysayers:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: to all the BB GM naysayers : Yup, being on top of the Division (6x) and Conference (2x) in that period, really sucks.  I say, fire the whole team and start over. I wonder how many here apply such measurables to their own careers?
    Posted by pezz4pats[/QUOTE]


    I think if you look at the sideline of a team that just lost the SB and see all the grown men crying you will get a better handle on what success in the NFL actually is. It ain't f'n division championships, and it ain't just not sucking.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: to all the BB GM naysayers

    As I said above, I think BB has done a better than average (but by no means perfect) job as GM given the picks he's had available . . . but that doesn't mean the talent level on this team is high enough to ensure dominance.  Much of the Pats success has been derived more from great coaching than from great talent acquisition.  I bet even BB would tell you that . . . a team that is starting Edelman and Slater at safety midseason is not in an ideal position as far as talent is concerned.  That's evident and I doubt BB would try to tell you otherwise himself. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: to all the BB GM naysayers

    In Response to Re: to all the BB GM naysayers:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: to all the BB GM naysayers : We've seen this stupid CHFF article before. And its flaws have been pointed out before.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    Actually that's not the case, Babe.  It was yet another independent analysis that ranked the Pats drafting among the best in the NFL. The 'flaws' you claim to have pointed out then were specious.

    So, with all due respect, exactly what are the flaws in Cold Hard Football Facts thread?  Please be specific.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: to all the BB GM naysayers

    In Response to Re: to all the BB GM naysayers:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: to all the BB GM naysayers : I think if you look at the sideline of a team that just lost the SB and see all the grown men crying you will get a better handle on what success in the NFL actually is. It ain't f'n division championships, and it ain't just not sucking.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    Everything is not so black and white.
    It takes steps to even get to the SB.
    1st, win enough games to qualify for the play-offs  Pats did this 8/10 times
    2nd, win the conference                                     Pats did this 5/10 times
    3rd, win the SB                                                 Pats did this 3/10 times.
    That is not, just not sucking.  What team is better?
      In fact what team has had a better run since the cap area began?
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: to all the BB GM naysayers

    And just so you'll have ample opportunity to locate those flaws, here's another thread you may find annoying:

    http://thisorthat.com/blog/the-best-drafting-nfl-teams-of-the-decade

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: to all the BB GM naysayers

    In Response to Re: to all the BB GM naysayers:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: to all the BB GM naysayers : Actually that's not the case, Babe.  It was yet another independent analysis that ranked the Pats drafting among the best in the NFL. The 'flaws' you claim to have pointed out then were specious. So, with all due respect, exactly what are the flaws in Cold Hard Football Facts thread?  Please be specific.
    Posted by ATJ[/QUOTE]

    The flaws were:

    Citing the number of draftees active. Having a bunch of scrubs roaming around the bench areas of NFL teams means next to nothing when assessing the impact of drafting. Impact players are the measure, not scrubs.

    Using PFR's AV ratings as the heart of the analysis is a joke. They rate Peyton Manning a 220 and Brady 160. Rodgers is 73 and Romo 72. Sheer nonsense.

    Using pro-bowlers is spurious as well. While that can be a measure it is also much the popularity contest. Brandon Meriweather made 2 pro-bowls and BB cut him.


    Comey's credentials as a sports writer are next to nothing. He might as well be posting here.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: to all the BB GM naysayers

    OK, I disagree, but OK.  Kindly provide for us your criteria for what constitutes successful drafting.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: to all the BB GM naysayers

    In Response to Re: to all the BB GM naysayers:
    [QUOTE]OK, I disagree, but OK.  Kindly provide for us your criteria for what constitutes successful drafting.
    Posted by ATJ[/QUOTE]


    What about the flaws I mentioned do you disagree with?


    My criteria would be overall team success over time relative to the personnel added to the team.

    If you're adding people but your level of success is going down then the people you're adding can't be all that good.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: to all the BB GM naysayers

    In Response to Re: to all the BB GM naysayers:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: to all the BB GM naysayers : This right here^ is exactly what is wrong with 21st century Pats fan and you can well believe me when I tell you we won't miss you at all. Outside of maybe Bitchburgh and, just lately, the blue part of New Jersey, I can't think of another NFL fan base that wouldn't salivate at the idea of realistically competing for championships year-in and year-out the way the Pats do. I'm sorry it offends your bandwagon sensibilities that the Pats don't win the Super Bowl every single year and gift-wrap it especially for you, but that's not the way the world works. Oh . . .  and you can save all that "I've been a fan since . . .  " bullsqueeze. You show what type of fan you are with every post.
    Posted by p-mike[/QUOTE]

    I completely disagree. First of all, just because some one does not think everything BB does is genius, they are not necessarily a "bandwagon" fan. 

    It is not about winning the Super Bowl every year. My point is that over the last seven years, there are teams who have been better than the Patriots. You don't think the 90's Bills fans would trade a three of those Super Bowl appearances for one Championship? Or the Braves fans who saw them win one World Series in five attempts?

    Yes were spoiled from the 2001-2004 run. I just want people to stop evaluating Brady and Belichick on stuff that happened 8 to 11 seasons ago and start living in the present when the look at this team.
     

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