To all (well the 3) Defense is not the Problem Posters

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: To all (well the 3) Defense is not the Problem Posters

    In response to kjfitone's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Thank god they've added to the defense, now maybe the offense will score more than 14 and 17 points in the Super Bowl... see how silly that sounds?

     

    [/QUOTE]


    NOT!  They can't score a lot of points while the D is on the field, and with possessions disappearing at an  OBSCENE rate..  Is this really a foriegn concept to you?  Did you not hear them mention at least 5 times during the Pats/Donkeys game?  7 freaken possessions!
    And you've been telling us how smart you are, all these years.  PFFT

     

    Apparently bb, with help from Lombardi, agrees and can admit it.  Sorry you can't.

    See how silly you sound?

    [/QUOTE]

    umm they had just as many posessions as the giants did but couldnt score. were the three and outs the defenses problem? what about the interceptions? the defense picked off manning in the last superbowl only to have brady throw a pick in the very next play. the offense has stunk in the duperbowls and afc championship games for years.

    [/QUOTE]


    Yeah, we hear the blah blah blah.

    But didn't the offense leave the D with a LEAD at the last minutes of both SBs you refer to? DIDN'T THEY?????

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: To all (well the 3) Defense is not the Problem Posters

    In response to kjfitone's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Thank god they've added to the defense, now maybe the offense will score more than 14 and 17 points in the Super Bowl... see how silly that sounds?

     

    [/QUOTE]


    NOT!  They can't score a lot of points while the D is on the field, and with possessions disappearing at an  OBSCENE rate..  Is this really a foriegn concept to you?  Did you not hear them mention at least 5 times during the Pats/Donkeys game?  7 freaken possessions!
    And you've been telling us how smart you are, all these years.  PFFT

     

    Apparently bb, with help from Lombardi, agrees and can admit it.  Sorry you can't.

    See how silly you sound?

    [/QUOTE]

    umm they had just as many posessions as the giants did but couldnt score. were the three and outs the defenses problem? what about the interceptions? the defense picked off manning in the last superbowl only to have brady throw a pick in the very next play. the offense has stunk in the duperbowls and afc championship games for years.

    [/QUOTE]


    Yes and the Pats scored 4 less points against a much tougher D and had the lead until  one of the many epic Defensive meltdowns allowing them to score on 75 freaken% of their second half possessions, 3 of 4.  And no the D did not get a turn over against Manning.  I think your confused.  Not only did they not get a pick they failed to get a 3 and out and failed to stop them on their side of the field even ONCE which resulted in some of the poorest Offensive field position in SB history.  They scored a SB record 98 yrd TD.  How many times did you expect them to break that record in a game with awful field possession throughout.?

    Sorry but D's are there to help the O, not HINDER THEM, which is EXACTLY what they did by not getting the ball back to them,,,, by not getting a 3 & out... by not recording a single turn over and by giving them the poorest field position in SB history on the freaken limited possessions they had and committing stupid penalties to negate any positives.

    Sorry, but all those things matter and all those things hurt the offense.

    Offenses play against Defenses and when one defense does absolutely NOTHING to help their O and the other defense does, IT MATTERS!  It's a team game, both need to contribute, one cannot make up for all the deficiencies of the other half, not against a complete team where both sides were actually playing.

    Oh and 3 and outs are common in every game, unless you play the pats D.  No worries about that, or picks which are also common, for that matter.

    One was normal, the other was not.

    The O had approx 20 minutes to run their plays.  The Gints had approx 40 minutes to run their plays.  Not only does that limit possession but it also limits the amount of plays you can run per possession.

    When the amount of plays you can run are limited, you become one dimensional.

    When the number of plays you can run is limited, you score less.

    When the number of plays you can run is not limited, you score more.

    31st ranked D's that can't get off the field, NEVER win SB's and that's a fact.

    And it's a FACT for all the above reasons.

    I thank god, Lombardi told BB his defense SUCKS and he better fix it NOW.

    He's wasted enough years and anyone who denies that needs to be watching tennis, not football.

    Hopefully they can compete with a full team now.  They had no shot with that other crap.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Cloudyandrain. Show Cloudyandrain's posts

    Re: To all (well the 3) Defense is not the Problem Posters

    late when I heard the news that BB actually did spend money to get shut down player.

     

    Is Talib left...for Denver?

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: To all (well the 3) Defense is not the Problem Posters

    Wow this Defense is Soooo much different at this moment compared to the start of last season I don't think I will even recognize it. LMAO

    Let's recap.

    Move #1 - Can be argued a wash. Swap elite CB's. Talib for Revis. Younger for older. Taller for shorter. Degenerative hip for recovering ACL. Elite for even a lil more elite.

    Move #2 - a role specific CB/SS filling the size role BB has been trying to fill for quite some time. A player who lost his starting job on another team. A player who will play 12 games at most for us next season because he is suspended. A player, depending on what top 100 free agent list you check, is anywhere from #63 to not in the top 100. A player NFL.com listed as being in the 1) impact starters? Nope 2) starters with questions? Nope 3:)Effective in the right role? Yep.

    I'm not knocking the Browner pickup and really I hope he's the best thing since sliced bread in his role in this system.

    Let's keep it real. The Patriots have not gone out and made drastic additions to the defense so far. To say it is some sort of proof they know what the problem is, is ridiculously funny.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: To all (well the 3) Defense is not the Problem Posters

    In response to kjfitone's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to wozzy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MattC05's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Maybe now the defense will get off the field so the offense will have more than 8 possessions to work with.

    [/QUOTE]

    Possessions arguement is a crock of sht, in the last Super Bowl both teams had an equal amount of possessions (9 actually), our offense turned the ball over twice, once a safety. 

    Our defense actually forced the Giants to punt four times, once more than the Giant defense did to us. 

    Offense has to move the ball and score points, they didn't.  Excuses are for losers. 

    [/QUOTE]
    exactly. some people here are so set on their views that they are completely blinded by the facts. sure the defense has had some bad games and given up touchdowns late but in both games the patriots had the ball last and couldnt even get a first down hopefully when we have the most dominant defense in the league this season that some will see the light. how many points did the defense give up in the last two superbowls? wouldnt most teams win in giving up such few points?

    they win and lose as a team

    [/QUOTE]


    They had the ball for 35 and 52 seconds at the end of both games and they did get a first down.  If you want to comment, please get your facts straight.  You sound like trombone.

    Oh, in case you don't know, the D gave up fewer points because of fewer possessions too.

    It works both ways.  The other team isn't going to score as much either with less opportunities.. Oh, again, unless you're playing the Pats D where they just allowed Manning to score on 6/7 drives and almost 50% of the possible points with 7 possessions. With 12 possessions they would have given up 40+ or more as Manning was just toying with them to keep the O off the field.  He wasn't going to chance another 28 point come back.

    More and more teams are beating the Pats that way.  Even the freaken JETS!

    PATHETIC and the straw that broke Lombardi's and Kraft's back.  lol

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: To all (well the 3) Defense is not the Problem Posters

    In response to TFB12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Yeah, maybe the defense can get the other team off the field so the offense can have more opportunities to try and score.  Not only that, have you ever heard of low scoring, hard fought games?  Sometimes they turn out like that, funny thing is the Pats scored to take the lead with less then 3 minutes to go in both games.... only to have the defense give up game losing drives.  Good job BB for recognizing this and adding to the defense.

    [/QUOTE]

    BB also added to the offense realizing it was a problem.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: To all (well the 3) Defense is not the Problem Posters

    In response to mthurl's comment:

    You mean like in the Super Bowl against the Eagles? When the offense didn't get more than one first down in the first quarter...and turned the ball over 2 times in the first half. Or when going into the 4th quarter they only had put up 14 points. Or how about the Super Bowl against the Rams? How many points did the offense score in that one? It's funny how fans forget how we won those games...defense. Defense wins championships, something we haven't had in years. Bill Belichick knows it.



    We gave up fewer points in the last two Super Bowls than we did in any but 2001.  The final score against the Panthers was 32-29... no doubt a "defensive battle."

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: To all (well the 3) Defense is not the Problem Posters

    Possessions, length of possessions is garbage.  It's up to our offense to dictate how long they will stay on the field and how many points they'll score, it's not up to our defense.  Luckily I have pezzhead on ignore so I don't have to read his mile long rants riddled with junk science.  

    It's not that complicated, 9 possessions a piece, what you do with them is up to each offense to determine.

    The "defense is not the problem" posters realize that while the defense was middle of the road they played up to their potential in the playoffs, meanwhile while the vaunted offense folded like a cheap futon.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: To all (well the 3) Defense is not the Problem Posters


    Our offense has scored 15.5 ppg in 6 straight playoff losses going back 7 years ago.

    I guess a Tom Brady lead offense needs more possessions in order to play well....score points, not turn the ball over, get 1st downs, etc....

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: To all (well the 3) Defense is not the Problem Posters

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Wow this Defense is Soooo much different at this moment compared to the start of last season I don't think I will even recognize it. LMAO

    Let's recap.

    Move #1 - Can be argued a wash. Swap elite CB's. Talib for Revis. Younger for older. Taller for shorter. Degenerative hip for recovering ACL. Elite for even a lil more elite.

    Move #2 - a role specific CB/SS filling the size role BB has been trying to fill for quite some time. A player who lost his starting job on another team. A player who will play 12 games at most for us next season because he is suspended. A player, depending on what top 100 free agent list you check, is anywhere from #63 to not in the top 100. A player NFL.com listed as being in the 1) impact starters? Nope 2) starters with questions? Nope 3:)Effective in the right role? Yep.

    I'm not knocking the Browner pickup and really I hope he's the best thing since sliced bread in his role in this system.

    Let's keep it real. The Patriots have not gone out and made drastic additions to the defense so far. To say it is some sort of proof they know what the problem is, is ridiculously funny.

    [/QUOTE]

    I would say, however, that their secondary is much better going into 2014 than it was in 2011. Maybe it's only slightly improved from last year, but over the past three years there has been remarkable cumulative improvement. 

    I do think BB recognized that 2011 secondary was not adequate.  Regardless of what Wozzy says, allowing Eli Manning a 75% completion rate in the Super Bowl is not good defense. 

     

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: To all (well the 3) Defense is not the Problem Posters

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Our offense has scored 15.5 ppg in 6 straight playoff losses going back 7 years ago.

    I guess a Tom Brady lead offense needs more possessions in order to play well....score points, not turn the ball over, get 1st downs, etc....

    [/QUOTE]

    It's the defense's fault that our offense punts so much in playoff losses and generally gives our defense poor field position.  

    Good grief, some posters here have such a stiffy for Brady they'll look for any reason why we haven't won but the truth.  The whole team wasn't good enough, the defense was average and played average, the offense was a great, finesse regular season offense that layed eggs in the playoffs.  

    Yes defense wins championships but the offense is still responsible for scoring points, the truth hurts.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: To all (well the 3) Defense is not the Problem Posters

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I would say, however, that their secondary is much better going into 2014 than it was in 2011. Maybe it's only slightly improved from last year, but over the past three years there has been remarkable cumulative improvement. 

    I do think BB recognized that 2011 secondary was not adequate.  Regardless of what Wozzy says, allowing Eli Manning a 75% completion rate in the Super Bowl is not good defense. 

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm sure our offense not scoring for 2/3rds of the third quarter as well as the entire fourth quarter had nothing to do with the defense finally wearing down in the final minutes of the game.  

    I mean watching your offense go out; punt, punt, punt and repeatedly having the defense go back out there didn't hurt them at all.  

    You must play your John Madden football with the "fatigue" and "injuries" settings turned off?

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from fishers5. Show fishers5's posts

    Re: To all (well the 3) Defense is not the Problem Posters

    In response to theshinez's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to tcal2-'s comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Seems our boy BB and the new kid in town Lombardi completely disagree with your totally wrong analysis of the team.

     Finally after 10 frutile years of Free Agency and Value Draft picking the boys are throwing some REAL money at the Real problem.....The Defense.

    Thank you Executive of the year Lombardi!!

    [/QUOTE]


    How can the problem be the D?  We only gave up 26 points to the Greatest Offense of all time.  We ONLY scored 16.  THAT'S 16 points!!  And if you look at the other playoff losses the last 5-6 years, you will see that we could not score points. 

    2012 vs. Ravens: 13 pts.

    2011 SB vs. Giants: 17pts.

    Our issues have stemmed mainly from the (lack of ) O-line protection and not being able to score points. 

    [/QUOTE]

    It has been the issue that the D which is sometimes good, doesn't get off the field that wil give TB more opportunities.  How many times have you seen a 3rd and more than 8 and the other team makes plays for first downs ,keeping the offense on the bench.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: To all (well the 3) Defense is not the Problem Posters

    The possession argument continues I see.  

    Are people really this math challenged?

    See the following chart which shows how both the maximum and expected points scored by an offense changes with number of possessions.  This is basic math.  There's no "junk science" involved. 

      

         

    Number of Possessions for Offense / Maximum Points That Can Be Scored by Offense in Game (Assuming TDs =7 Points) / Expected Points Scored by Offense in Game (Assuming NFL Average of 1.86 points per drive)

     

    4 / 28 / 7.4

     

    5 / 35 / 9.3

     

    6 / 42 / 11.2

     

    7 / 49 / 13.0

     

    8 / 56 / 14.9

     

    9 / 63 / 16.7

     

    10 / 70 / 18.6

     

    11 / 77 / 20.5

     

    12 / 84 / 22.3

     

    13 / 91 / 24.2

     

    14 / 98 / 26.0

     

    15 / 105 / 27.9

     

    16 / 112 / 29.8

     

    17 / 119 / 31.6

     

    18 / 126 / 33.5

     

         

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: To all (well the 3) Defense is not the Problem Posters

    In response to fishers5's comment:

    It has been the issue that the D which is sometimes good, doesn't get off the field that wil give TB more opportunities.  How many times have you seen a 3rd and more than 8 and the other team makes plays for first downs ,keeping the offense on the bench.



    Baloney.  The offense doesn't score with the efficiency that it does in the regular season because the refs call the games looser and there arent as many ticky tack fouls.  Playoff football is tougher.  Yes we had to get better on defense and we have, but the main reason we lost the last two Super Bowls was because our offense was soft.

    Again in the last Super Bowl each team had 9 possessions, the Patriots defense forced the Giants offense to punt 4 times, the Patriots offense punted 3 but also turned it over twice, they only scored points to start the second half because they got a mismatch and ran the no huddle.  They didn't score again for the entire 2nd half.  

    They couldn't control the clock, they couldn't convert first downs, they couldn't score, they hung the defense out to dry; blame the offense not the defense.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: To all (well the 3) Defense is not the Problem Posters

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The possession argument continues I see.  

    Are people really this math challenged?

    See the following chart which shows how both the maximum and expected points scored by an offense changes with number of possessions.  This is basic math.  There's no "junk science" involved. 

    [/QUOTE]

    It's f-ing garbage.

    Points scored, points allowed and turnovers are the only stats that matter.  

    Everything else is just people talking, trying to find some magical equation for wins and losses.  Points scored/points allowed, that's all you need to look at.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: To all (well the 3) Defense is not the Problem Posters

    In response to wozzy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    the main reason we lost the last two Super Bowls was because our offense was soft.

    [/QUOTE]

    No. We have scored less per possession in other SBs that we have won. You just cannot ignore that fact wozzy.

    And you cannot ignore the fact that the DEFENSE was the side that ended up with the game on the line in the last few minutes in those 2 SBs, not the offense. And they epic failed. Whatever the blah blah blah about the rest of the game is, you cannot deny the D choked when the Lombardi was on the line. No amount of words will ever change that fact.

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: To all (well the 3) Defense is not the Problem Posters

    In response to wozzy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The possession argument continues I see.  

    Are people really this math challenged?

    See the following chart which shows how both the maximum and expected points scored by an offense changes with number of possessions.  This is basic math.  There's no "junk science" involved. 

    [/QUOTE]

    It's f-ing garbage.

    Points scored, points allowed and turnovers are the only stats that matter.  

    [/QUOTE]


    And how many turnovers did our D get in the 2 SB losses compared to the 3 SB wins?

    You don't want to know.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: To all (well the 3) Defense is not the Problem Posters

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    No. We have scored less per possession in other SBs that we have won. You just cannot ignore that fact wozzy.

    And you cannot ignore the fact that the DEFENSE was the side that ended up with the game on the line in the last few minutes in those 2 SBs, not the offense. And they epic failed. Whatever the blah blah blah about the rest of the game is, you cannot deny the D choked when the Lombardi was on the line. No amount of words will ever change that fact. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Our offense from 2001-2004 was a smashmouth offense that almost always controlled the clock, time of possession, hardly turned it over and scored efficiently, albiet with quite a few field goals.  

    Again tell me how it's the present day defense's fault that the modern day offense can't slowly and methodically drive down field and, if not score, leave our defense in good field position?  

    We became the Peyton Manning Colt's offense that's why... yes, the defense wasn't as solid as those early years but they played up to their regular season averages, while the offense just stunk and underachieved.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: To all (well the 3) Defense is not the Problem Posters

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    And how many turnovers did our D get in the 2 SB losses compared to the 3 SB wins?

    You don't want to know.



    They allowed fewer points than all but one of our Super Bowl wins.  It's the offense's job to score, not to turn the ball over and punt.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: To all (well the 3) Defense is not the Problem Posters

    In response to fishers5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to theshinez's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to tcal2-'s comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Seems our boy BB and the new kid in town Lombardi completely disagree with your totally wrong analysis of the team.

     Finally after 10 frutile years of Free Agency and Value Draft picking the boys are throwing some REAL money at the Real problem.....The Defense.

    Thank you Executive of the year Lombardi!!

    [/QUOTE]


    How can the problem be the D?  We only gave up 26 points to the Greatest Offense of all time.  We ONLY scored 16.  THAT'S 16 points!!  And if you look at the other playoff losses the last 5-6 years, you will see that we could not score points. 

    2012 vs. Ravens: 13 pts.

    2011 SB vs. Giants: 17pts.

    Our issues have stemmed mainly from the (lack of ) O-line protection and not being able to score points. 

    [/QUOTE]

    It has been the issue that the D which is sometimes good, doesn't get off the field that wil give TB more opportunities.  How many times have you seen a 3rd and more than 8 and the other team makes plays for first downs ,keeping the offense on the bench.

    [/QUOTE]

    Are you saying TB needs more opportunities -- i.e., more possessions -- than the opposing QB? 

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: To all (well the 3) Defense is not the Problem Posters

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The possession argument continues I see.  

    Are people really this math challenged?

    See the following chart which shows how both the maximum and expected points scored by an offense changes with number of possessions.  This is basic math.  There's no "junk science" involved. 

      

         

    Number of Possessions for Offense

     

    Maximum Points That Can Be Scored by Offense in Game (Assuming TDs =7 Points

     

    Expected Points Scored by Offense in Game (Assuming NFL Average of 1.86 points per drive)

     

    4

     

    28

     

    7.4

     

    5

     

    35

     

    9.3

     

    6

     

    42

     

    11.2

     

    7

     

    49

     

    13.0

     

    8

     

    56

     

    14.9

     

    9

     

    63

     

    16.7

     

    10

     

    70

     

    18.6

     

    11

     

    77

     

    20.5

     

    12

     

    84

     

    22.3

     

    13

     

    91

     

    24.2

     

    14

     

    98

     

    26.0

     

    15

     

    105

     

    27.9

     

    16

     

    112

     

    29.8

     

    17

     

    119

     

    31.6

     

    18

     

    126

     

    33.5

     

         

    [/QUOTE]

    What are these numbers?

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: To all (well the 3) Defense is not the Problem Posters

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    What are these numbers?

    [/QUOTE]

    An excuse for being on the wrong side of an argument for years.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: To all (well the 3) Defense is not the Problem Posters

    One thing overlooked that I remember being a problem was field position.  Seems like in both SB's the Pats started deep in their own territory several times.  The Giants punters did well with this in both SB's.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: To all (well the 3) Defense is not the Problem Posters

    The formatting got screwed up (the insert picture feature isn't working again).  

    Basically, all I'm saying is that the maximum points that can be scored by an offense in a game is limited by the number of possessions the offense has.  

    In a 9 possession game, the most the offense can score is 9X7 = 63 points (or 9X8 = 72 points if you want to assume two-point conversions).  In a more typical 12 possession game it is 12X7 = 84 (or 12X8=96).   Based on NFL averages of 1.86 points per drive, the expected point total in a 9 possession game is 16.7, and 22.3 in a 12 possession game. 

    In other words, number of possessions mathematically limits the number of available points for the offense to score and, based on average scoring rates per drive, changes the expected points scored. 

    How Wozzy doesn't understand this simple math is beyond me. 

     

     

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