Tom Brady vs. Ben Roethlisberger

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from clouts. Show clouts's posts

    Tom Brady vs. Ben Roethlisberger

    I still maintain that Tom Brady is a better quarterback than Ben Roethlisberger.  I compared these two over the summer, and showed that across the board in their careers Tom was, statwise, about 10% better. 

     

    Now that 2009 is over, I did the same exercise and compared only their first six full seasons (I discounted Tom’s first season completely since he only threw three passes).

     

    You may find the following surprising when comparing the two:

     

    -The top three seasons in Completion Percentage are all owned by Ben

    -The top season in Touchdowns is owned by Ben

    -The top season in Touchdown/attempt is owned by Ben

    -The top season in Total Yards is owned by Ben

    -The top four seasons in Yards/Attempt are owned by Ben

    -The top three seasons in Passer Rating are owned by Ben

    -Ben runs more, for more yardage, with a better Yards per Rush

     

    Some not so surprising:

     

    -The top season in Number of Completions is owned by Tom.  Ben has the #2 season, but four of the next five are owned by Tom.

    -The top four seasons in Number of Attempts is owned by Tom. 

    -Ben has thrown the most Interceptions, and Tom has the season that had the Highest Number of Attempts per Interception 

    To further breakdown the numbers, in looking at their seasons head to head, the only category in which Tom’s best is better than Ben’s best is in the Interception/Attempt, when Tom posted a 43.9 passes per attempt (4th year) to Ben’s best of 42.2 (6th year).  Tom throws more generally speaking, so his completions and total yards are consistently higher. 

     

    A huge plus for Brady is his “IronMan” status.  Until last season…the guy just doesn’t miss games.  You can put him down for 16 games a season.  Ben 14.5 games a season, so that is 1-2 games a year that you have to rely on a backup to win.  That is a minus in my book.

     

    Their per game averages are pretty similar.  Basically, you could count on Tom at this time for a 20-32, 227 yards with 1-2 TDs and 1 INT.  With Ben, on average he would deliver a 17-27, 221 yard day with 1-2 TDs and 1 INT.  Pretty similar, no?  Take into account that Ben picks up a few rushing yards per game more than Tom, Ben comes out ahead.

     

    Again, that’s a per game average, not a per season average.  So, over the course of a season due to missed games, you could count on a 12-4 record from Tom and a 10-4 record from Ben.  Three Super Bowls vs. Two Super Bowls.  I could go so far as to say that if you take away Ben’s 2006 season, which was horrible following his accident and really skewed his numbers negatively, he’s ahead.  But, I’m not taking that season away.  You drive around like an idiot…you deserve what you get.

     

    So, based on these numbers, honestly one would have a hard time arguing that Tom is better than Ben.  So, why am I not arguing that?  Two reasons, sacks and “upside”.  First, addressing the “upside”, I just do not see any scenario, no matter the weapons, where Ben can put up a season like Tom did in 2007.  Just no way.

     

    Second, the sacks.  For all the scrambling and playmaking that Ben does to put up these impressive numbers, he is sacked a helluva lot more than Tom is, and those yards at up.  In his first six years, Ben has been sacked a staggering 242 times for 1,601 yards.  Tom, on the other hand, has been sacked only 219 times IN HIS ENTIRE CAREER.

     

    I began this exercise wondering how far beyond they were at comparable stages of their career, as I think Ben was every bit as deserving as Tom was to be in the Pro Bowl this year.  In fact…I think he had a better year.  So, I wanted to see how far behind Ben was vs. Tom at this stage, and my initial review showed that he is actually ahead.  Then…I thought about the sacks, and this cannot be discounted.  They can be drive killers, and it’s a big negative on Ben and his results.

     

    So, in the end…Tom is better than Ben.  I realize I typed up about 2,000 words to tell you what you already knew, LOL.  But, I can guarantee you that many of you were not aware how close it really is.  As I’ve said in the past, it’s closer than you think, but there can be no doubt in my mind.  And, that is coming from a Steelers fan.

     

    Good lucks in the playoffs, folks!  I’ll be watching from the outside and silently stewing.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from harleyroadking103. Show harleyroadking103's posts

    Re: Tom Brady vs. Ben Roethlisberger

    uhh?
    ; background-repeat: no-repeat; background-attachment: initial; -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-color: transparent; height: 22px; font-size: 1px; background-position: 100% 0px">
    Single Season NFL Passing TD Leaders
    RkPlayerTeamTDsYear1Tom BradyNew England Patriots502007
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from harleyroadking103. Show harleyroadking103's posts

    Re: Tom Brady vs. Ben Roethlisberger



    Clouts where you getting your numbers from?  TB has the most td's with 50, and Marino has the most yards.
     background-repeat: no-repeat; background-attachment: initial; -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-color: transparent; height: 22px; font-size: 1px; background-position: 100% 0px">
    Single Season NFL Passing Leaders - 4000+ passing yards
    RkPlayerTeamYardsYear1Dan MarinoMiami Dolphins5,08419842Drew BreesNew Orleans Saints5,06920083Kurt WarnerSt. Louis Rams4,83020014Tom BradyNew England Patriots4,8062007
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from clouts. Show clouts's posts

    Re: Tom Brady vs. Ben Roethlisberger

    As I mentioned, I only looked at their first six years of their careers.  Toms one, truly outstanding year (that Ben can never match) occured in his 8th year.  Ben hasn't been in the league that long.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from harleyroadking103. Show harleyroadking103's posts

    Re: Tom Brady vs. Ben Roethlisberger

    AHH! my bad. I was just looking at stats not the yearsEmbarassed
    please continue.....
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: Tom Brady vs. Ben Roethlisberger

    I smell a troll.  No sane person would compare Roethlisberger to Brady.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: Tom Brady vs. Ben Roethlisberger

    How about career winning % and playoff winning % .....seriously Rapistburgher needs to worry more about concussion on and off the field. It`s not that close Brady is clearly better and Ben`s winning is an ancilliary benefit to having Dick Lebeau at DC.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from NickC1188. Show NickC1188's posts

    Re: Tom Brady vs. Ben Roethlisberger

    what about winning percentage?

    I know Brady has a slight edge in championships for the time being.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from clouts. Show clouts's posts

    Re: Tom Brady vs. Ben Roethlisberger

    And....why not?  The numbers are remarkeably similar. 

    What is your reasoning on why they cannot be compared?  I showed a rather exhausting analysis on "why".  Do the same for the "why not".  I am curious.  I admitted he didn't pass the test, but it is most certainly worthy of discussion.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from unclealfie. Show unclealfie's posts

    Re: Tom Brady vs. Ben Roethlisberger

    Who leads in number of lawsuits brought by women he raped?
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from clouts. Show clouts's posts

    Re: Tom Brady vs. Ben Roethlisberger

    If you are going to chalk up Ben's abilities to Labeau, then aren't you doing an injustice to BB?  I mean..he's the man, right?  Both were the benefit of an outstanding defense during their first six years.

    As for winning percentage, in these years Tom was 70-25 in the RS, and 12-2 in the playoffs.  Ben was 60-26, and 8-2 in the playoffs.

    Next?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: Tom Brady vs. Ben Roethlisberger

    If you are going to chalk up Ben's abilities to Labeau, then aren't you doing an injustice to BB?  I mean..he's the man, right?  Both were the benefit of an outstanding defense during their first six years.

    As for winning percentage, in these years Tom was 70-25 in the RS, and 12-2 in the playoffs.  Ben was 60-26, and 8-2 in the playoffs.

    Next?


    Take a hike Leon/Bubbazilla.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from clouts. Show clouts's posts

    Re: Tom Brady vs. Ben Roethlisberger

    Ha ha...I assure you I am not trolling.  I'm asking for a serious discussion.  Those who know me will tell you that I have nothing for respect for the entire Patriot organization.  They have become the model franchise in the NFL, they have my team's number, and I think they have as good as a shot as any team to win another SB.

    But, again...please show me where and why this discussion can't take place?
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from clouts. Show clouts's posts

    Re: Tom Brady vs. Ben Roethlisberger

    All valid, and great points.  I am fairly certain no author would put a manual out on how to play the QB position, and use Ben as an example.  Nobody would by that book.  Tom is an artist at spreading the all around, and that's why QB's like him dominate the Steelers defense. 

    I don't agree with the accuracy statement.  I only want to discuss the first six years (keeping this apples to apples), and in that time Ben has consistently been more accurate.

    As for the Super Bowl, admittedly Ben was brutal in that first one.  FUGLY.  Although, if you compare Ben's game to Tom's before his last drive...pretty similar days, to be sure.  Before that SB, in the playoffs that year, Ben had 7 TDs, 1 INT and a QB rating higher in the playoffs than Tom ever sniffed.  He carried them there.

     This past Super Bowl, Ben did much more than that last throw.  He had a great game and was superb on that entire last drive. 

    I don't blame the O-Line for his sacks.  As I mentioned in the OP, he creates plays...but those come back to haunt him as well.  To me, that is the biggest differentiator between the two.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from clouts. Show clouts's posts

    Re: Tom Brady vs. Ben Roethlisberger

    "Clouts, than stop acting like a car commercial and compare everything and not just what Ben happens to come close in.  "

    This was a rather exhausting analysis.  Tell me what you would like to compare that is different.  Not being a d*ck.  I'm as suprised as the next guy with the results, and I agree my eyes see it differently live than the do looking at the stat sheets.  How else can it be looked at it?  I have broken down both of their first six full seasons in complete detail. 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Marcus1973. Show Marcus1973's posts

    Re: Tom Brady vs. Ben Roethlisberger

    I believe Brady is better than every quarterback right now except for Manning. Manning and Brady are 1-2 and no one else is that close.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from csylvia79. Show csylvia79's posts

    Re: Tom Brady vs. Ben Roethlisberger

    Ben has had a better core WR team during his first 6 year than Brady did, and a solid running game. Not that Ben isn't a talentented quarterback, I do think he does have more talent around him offensively than Brady did his first 6 years.  Again that is debateable, but they have had some solid receivers his whole carrier and a punishing running game.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from clouts. Show clouts's posts

    Re: Tom Brady vs. Ben Roethlisberger

    "I believe Brady is better than every quarterback right now except for Manning. Manning and Brady are 1-2 and no one else is that close. "

    I agree Manning is #1, and Brady is #2.  I think Brees is very close to Brady. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wizardsjag. Show Wizardsjag's posts

    Re: Tom Brady vs. Ben Roethlisberger

    Brady's record at QB is off the charts as a starter

    Win    Loss  Win Pct.
    111 -  33      .771

    Roethlisberger good but quite far behind at

    Win   Loss  Win Pct.
    68  -   28      .708
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from clouts. Show clouts's posts

    Re: Tom Brady vs. Ben Roethlisberger

    Sam, here is where I will argue with you all day.  I honestly feel as confident with the ball in Ben's hands as any QB I have ever seen.  Sure, my glasses are tinted so take that with a grain of salt.  But, I have seen so many comebacks in the 4th quarter that if anything, I think it brings closer.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from clouts. Show clouts's posts

    Re: Tom Brady vs. Ben Roethlisberger


    "Brady's record at QB is off the charts as a starter

    Win    Loss  Win Pct.
    111 -  33      .771

    Roethlisberger good but quite far behind at

    Win   Loss  Win Pct.
    68  -   28      .708"






    Based on the first six years, as was the point of this post, their W/L records are both off the charts:  70-25 for Brady and 60-26 for Ben.  Basically, the difference is the lost games that Ben has had vs. Brady playing every game.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from krismk. Show krismk's posts

    Re: Tom Brady vs. Ben Roethlisberger

    Clouts,

    I'd bet most teams would be happy to have either of these QBs...I would as well.  There's things I like about both Ben R and Brady...both can play in open air in adverse weather...Peyton? Brees? Warner?  Snow is like magic dust for Brady, and Ben slogging around in the mud reminds me of old NFL films of Otto Graham, Johnny U. and Bart Starr
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Tom Brady vs. Ben Roethlisberger

    You seem to be excluding 2007 which helps make your case but doesn't tell the true story.  By most measures Manning was an average QB his first few seasons in the league.  You could probably take the first few years of most great QB's and compare them to nobodies and say they are the same.  But what makes them great isn't that thier bad years were as bad as others but that thier good years were better than others.  You can't just say since Jeff Garcia's first 3 years as a starter had better numbers than Manning's first 3 years than Garcia is better than Manning.  Their careers are defined by more than those years. 

    There was also some rule "emphasis" in 2003 that has helped every QB put up better numbers.  You should compare Ben to the QB's in the years he's played.  For instance Brady led the league in yards twice, TD's twice  and Comp% once.  And yes, Yards and TD's in his first 6 years.  Manning has led in Yards 2 times, TD 3 times and comp % once.  Ben has never led the league in any of those categories.  When looking at the top QB's in TD's, yards and rating Brady is in the top ten in every category every year after his first.  Ben is sometimes in the top ten sometimes in the bottom of the league.  Basically he is less consistent which is why he is not in the Top QB conversation with Brees, Brady, Manning.

    I don't think Ben gets credit for how good he is because people think Pitt is a run and defend team, but Ben was a big part of thier SB in 05, and he carried the team in the playoffs in 08.  He is a franchise QB but he just doesn't have the resume to put him at the top of his era yet.  He may get there, I think he is closer than most, Brees hasn't ever won anything but has numbers.  Ben has won but hasn't had great numbers.  He put up elite numbers in 2007 but he has been up and down and he was sort of forgotten because Brady put up 50 that year.  For him to be considered elite by most people he needs to put up top ten type numbers consistently and take his team tothe playoffs almost every year.  He does have the SB's and comebacks reputation already though.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from jbolted. Show jbolted's posts

    Re: Tom Brady vs. Ben Roethlisberger

    site your source clouts- copy & paste
    what years we talkin' here?

    and WIZ,
    Ben 68-29  70.1%

    Tom 112-32  77.8%

    Philip 49-21   70.0
    after this post season 52-21    71.2%
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from bostatewarrior. Show bostatewarrior's posts

    Re: Tom Brady vs. Ben Roethlisberger

    Clouts you said:

    "Based on the first six years, as was the point of this post, their W/L records are both off the charts:  70-25 for Brady and 60-26 for Ben.  Basically, the difference is the lost games that Ben has had vs. Brady playing every game."

    Are you assuming that Ben would have won every game that he missed?  You are cooking the books :)

    If BR had 95 decisions, as did TB, and maintained his same winning percentage his record would have been 66-29.

    So if next season Ben goes 16-0, like Brady did in his seventh year, he still won't catch Tom.   


     
     
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