Tom Brady vs. Ben Roethlisberger

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from CharlestonDude. Show CharlestonDude's posts

    Re: Tom Brady vs. Ben Roethlisberger

    Can you really discount Brady's 7th year?

    Is Ben going to throw for 50 tds next year?

    There both pretty damned good.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from CharlestonDude. Show CharlestonDude's posts

    Re: Tom Brady vs. Ben Roethlisberger

    JBolt,

    Rivers is building quite the resume for himself.  A SB win this year would go a long way too.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wizardsjag. Show Wizardsjag's posts

    Re: Tom Brady vs. Ben Roethlisberger

    Posts: 1087
    First: 4/16/2008
    Last: 1/6/2010
    site your source clouts- copy & paste
    what years we talkin' here?

    and WIZ,
    Ben 68-29  70.1%

    Tom 112-32  77.8%

    Philip 49-21   70.0
    after this post season 52-21    71.2%



    Not sure how you are adding Brady JBolt got Big Ben's numbers off of Statistical  Pro Football reference

    including playoffs (starts)
    2001  14-3
    2002  9-7
    2003  17-2
    2004  17-2
    2005  11-7
    2006  14-5
    2007  18-1
    2008  1-0
    2009  10-6

    Adding those up I always get 111-33.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wizardsjag. Show Wizardsjag's posts

    Re: Tom Brady vs. Ben Roethlisberger

    Hey JBolt maybe they reversed the call on the 4th and 2 against the Colts after the Colts decided to lay down the last 2 weeks and now the Pats are 11-5 this year.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from jbolted. Show jbolted's posts

    Re: Tom Brady vs. Ben Roethlisberger

    my bad on the 11-5
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from clouts. Show clouts's posts

    Re: Tom Brady vs. Ben Roethlisberger

    My source is my own spreadsheet, which I pulled the numbers from ESPN.com (except for the sacks, which I pulled from NFL.com).

    I do want to mention one thing about the 2007 season.  First, the reason why I eliminated that season is that I am only comparing their first six seasons.  Because, well...that's all the Ben has played.  Take away that season for Tom, and he's been remarkably consistent.  But, I have already admitted, I cannot picture any scenario on God's Green Earth where Ben Roethlisberger can put up 50 touchdowns.  Just not going to happen.  So, Tom's best, IMO, will always be better than Ben's best.

    My point (maybe I missed it originally) is that after their first six full seasons, comparing apples to apples, on the surface one would be hard-pressed to not at least consider Ben as Tom's equal.  It's in the discussion.  It has to be.  Every metric puts them in the same category.  Also, it's not a slam at Tom at all.  It's more of a recognition of Ben. 

    As for Tom being a league-leader and Ben never being so, that is of course true.  First, again, looking only at the first six full years.  Second, I looked at the total yardage where Tom is always ahead.  TDs mostly Tom is ahead.  But, he also plays on average 1.5 more games per year.  So, their GAME AVERAGES are virtually identical, in both touchdowns, ints, and yards.  Ben just throws less, so  his YPA is consistently higher.


    As for their records,  here goes:


    Tom:  11-4, 9-7, 14-2, 14-2, 10-6, 12-4.

    Ben: 13-0, 9-3, 7-8, 10-5, 12-4, 9-6.

    And, yes, Rivers I think is in the same discussion.  I personally don't like him, but he's probably above Ben in skills right now and if they grab a trophy, I'd put him ahead.  But, it was enough work just doing these two that I didn't want to do any more...

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wizardsjag. Show Wizardsjag's posts

    Re: Tom Brady vs. Ben Roethlisberger

    FYI Clouts, Brady in 2001 is 11-3 he came in late week 2 after Bledsoe got hurt. We started out 0-2 under Bledsoe and Brady went 11-3 for a 11-5 record.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from clouts. Show clouts's posts

    Re: Tom Brady vs. Ben Roethlisberger

    "FYI Clouts, Brady in 2001 is 11-3 he came in late week 2 after Bledsoe got hurt. We started out 0-2 under Bledsoe and Brady went 11-3 for a 11-5 record. "

    Thanks for the correction.  My data source had it wrong.  That further pushes Tom's winning % ahead.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from gmbill. Show gmbill's posts

    Re: Tom Brady vs. Ben Roethlisberger

    Ben who????

    Clouts, not a valid post...
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from CarveMaster. Show CarveMaster's posts

    Re: Tom Brady vs. Ben Roethlisberger

    I don't know if you can effectively compare these two. They are two very different types of quarterbacks. The one thing they have in common is they both find ways to win lots of games. Any other team in the NFL would be thrilled to have either one as QB. We all know Tom is amazing, but if you get the chance to see some of Ben's games, he is equally amazing in different ways.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from clouts. Show clouts's posts

    Re: Tom Brady vs. Ben Roethlisberger

    "I don't know if you can effectively compare these two. They are two very different types of quarterbacks. The one thing they have in common is they both find ways to win lots of games. Any other team in the NFL would be thrilled to have either one as QB. We all know Tom is amazing, but if you get the chance to see some of Ben's games, he is equally amazing in different ways. "

    Well said.  Completely different styles, but both effective.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from clouts. Show clouts's posts

    Re: Tom Brady vs. Ben Roethlisberger

    I suppose I should 'man-up' and add a follow-up to my original post...

    Stats and wins/losses aside, there is another difference betwee the two players:  class, and how they carry themselves and represent their organizations.  Ben has lightyears to go before he can be mentioned in the same breath as Tom in this department.  His actions have embarassed me, most fans of the Steelers, his teammates, and the entire organization.  I hope he can turn his life around, because right now he's heading down a path he does not want to go down.


    Yes, Ben now takes a huge step down the 'depth charts' when  you are talking about "Top 5" or "Top 10" QBs.  Until his entire life comes around, he's not in either of those discussions.

    Go B's!

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BrooklineRob. Show BrooklineRob's posts

    Re: Tom Brady vs. Ben Roethlisberger

    I think if you put Brady and Roethlisberger out there as free agents that 80% of teams would pick him over Roethlisberger.  I guess if you handicap it for injuries Brady is more of a risk, but BR has played on some pretty good defensive teams with solid running games, and was more of a game manager than a game changer.  I'll ignore the off field stuff and say even with the injury to his knee, Brady is the guy more teams would want leading their offense than BR.   
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from isurfvb35. Show isurfvb35's posts

    Re: Tom Brady vs. Ben Roethlisberger

    In Response to Tom Brady vs. Ben Roethlisberger:
    I still maintain that Tom Brady is a better quarterback than Ben Roethlisberger.   I compared these two over the summer, and showed that across the board in their careers Tom was, statwise, about 10% better.     Now that 2009 is over, I did the same exercise and compared only their first six full seasons (I discounted Tom’s first season completely since he only threw three passes).   You may find the following surprising when comparing the two:   -The top three seasons in Completion Percentage are all owned by Ben -The top season in Touchdowns is owned by Ben -The top season in Touchdown/attempt is owned by Ben -The top season in Total Yards is owned by Ben -The top four seasons in Yards/Attempt are owned by Ben -The top three seasons in Passer Rating are owned by Ben -Ben runs more, for more yardage, with a better Yards per Rush   Some not so surprising:   -The top season in Number of Completions is owned by Tom.   Ben has the #2 season, but four of the next five are owned by Tom. -The top four seasons in Number of Attempts is owned by Tom.   -Ben has thrown the most Interceptions , and Tom has the season that had the Highest Number of Attempts per Interception   To further breakdown the numbers, in looking at their seasons head to head, the only category in which Tom’s best is better than Ben’s best is in the Interception/Attempt, when Tom posted a 43.9 passes per attempt (4 th year) to Ben’s best of 42.2 (6 th year).   Tom throws more generally speaking, so his completions and total yards are consistently higher.     A huge plus for Brady is his “IronMan” status.   Until last season…the guy just doesn’t miss games.   You can put him down for 16 games a season.   Ben 14.5 games a season, so that is 1-2 games a year that you have to rely on a backup to win.   That is a minus in my book.   Their per game averages are pretty similar.   Basically, you could count on Tom at this time for a 20-32, 227 yards with 1-2 TDs and 1 INT.   With Ben, on average he would deliver a 17-27, 221 yard day with 1-2 TDs and 1 INT.   Pretty similar, no?   Take into account that Ben picks up a few rushing yards per game more than Tom, Ben comes out ahead.   Again, that’s a per game average, not a per season average.   So, over the course of a season due to missed games, you could count on a 12-4 record from Tom and a 10-4 record from Ben.   Three Super Bowls vs. Two Super Bowls.   I could go so far as to say that if you take away Ben’s 2006 season, which was horrible following his accident and really skewed his numbers negatively, he’s ahead.   But, I’m not taking that season away.   You drive around like an idiot…you deserve what you get.   So, based on these numbers, honestly one would have a hard time arguing that Tom is better than Ben.   So, why am I not arguing that?   Two reasons, sacks and “upside”.   First, addressing the “upside”, I just do not see any scenario, no matter the weapons, where Ben can put up a season like Tom did in 2007.   Just no way.   Second, the sacks.   For all the scrambling and playmaking that Ben does to put up these impressive numbers, he is sacked a helluva lot more than Tom is, and those yards at up.   In his first six years, Ben has been sacked a staggering 242 times for 1,601 yards.   Tom, on the other hand, has been sacked only 219 times IN HIS ENTIRE CAREER.   I began this exercise wondering how far beyond they were at comparable stages of their career, as I think Ben was every bit as deserving as Tom was to be in the Pro Bowl this year.   In fact…I think he had a better year.   So, I wanted to see how far behind Ben was vs. Tom at this stage, and my initial review showed that he is actually ahead.   Then…I thought about the sacks, and this cannot be discounted.   They can be drive killers, and it’s a big negative on Ben and his results.   So, in the end…Tom is better than Ben.   I realize I typed up about 2,000 words to tell you what you already knew, LOL.   But, I can guarantee you that many of you were not aware how close it really is.   As I’ve said in the past, it’s closer than you think, but there can be no doubt in my mind.   And, that is coming from a Steelers fan.   Good lucks in the playoffs, folks!   I’ll be watching from the outside and silently stewing.
    Posted by clouts


    what a stupid comparison. tom brady is one of the best ever. rapeabichburger is not even top 30 of all time.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from oklahomapatriot. Show oklahomapatriot's posts

    Re: Tom Brady vs. Ben Roethlisberger

    In Response to Re: Tom Brady vs. Ben Roethlisberger:
    I smell a troll.  No sane person would compare Roethlisberger to Brady.
    Posted by themightypatriotz


    sniff, sniff, yeah. LOL, what is there to compare?
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Tom Brady vs. Ben Roethlisberger

    Ben is a very good quarterback, all you have to do is watch him to see that. He has been productive and has played well while taking a pounding. I've always been amazed at how easy it is for him to throw the ball and how athletic he is. He hasn't had a great supporting cast around him, yet he does things on his own. I'd rather have Brady, he's more accurate and obviously not a moron.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patriots1970. Show Patriots1970's posts

    Re: Tom Brady vs. Ben Roethlisberger

    In Response to Re: Tom Brady vs. Ben Roethlisberger:
    The Turdlisburger also didn't wait in line to start like Brady did.  Ben got experience his rookie year and that was vital to his development for the subsequent seasons. Also, playing Cleveland and Cincy 2x per year doesn't hurt either.  Rapelisturd has Mike Vanderjaght to thank aloing with Nick Harper and the refs in SB 40.  That was the SB where he had the worst rating ever for a QB. I think ol Ben can consider himself very lucky for even winning one SB. THis comparison is ridiculous. It's like comparing Jim Plunkett to Joe Montana.
    Posted by russgriswold


    isn't Plunkett a HOFer?

    If he isn't then the Plunkett to Montana comparison may fit here :)

    If Plunkett is a HOFer then BR has a lot more to do to clean up his act off the field to be considered for selection...

    Overall, BR, the Manning's and Brees all had a better support groups of WR and RB's and possibly defense then Brady had when winning 3 SB rings in the last decade.

    I think Brady did benefit during the first SB wining seasno with the defense stepping up tremendously and continuing to scare the bejezus out of other teams until 2006.

    Since 2006, the defense let the team down and that is why no SB wins since then. The last few drafts have brought in decent defensive talent, but still missing the phyiscal/mental edge of the SB winning teams.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheFantasyBaron. Show TheFantasyBaron's posts

    Re: Tom Brady vs. Ben Roethlisberger

    There is no comparison here; Brady couldn't rape his way out of a wet paper bag.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from CubanPete. Show CubanPete's posts

    Re: Tom Brady vs. Ben Roethlisberger



    Big Ben is having trouble understanding how Tom Brady gets all the chicks.
     

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