Tom relies on Wes, Gronk, and Hernandez too much

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from millergrnv. Show millergrnv's posts

    Tom relies on Wes, Gronk, and Hernandez too much

    Not saying that its a bad thing, but Tom relies on those 3 way too much. Branch will make a contribution in a game, but won't be heard from for at least 1 or 2 games as if he's been relaesed. This is where the question of is the wide receivers developing. Tom has been in that offense for years and knows all the plays, but for Draft Picks and Free Agents that have come and gone, they don't know that offense like Tom does. The best example is Chad when he got traded late with no time at all due to the lockout and found the offense to be very complex and was a non-factor and Tom is calling his own plays as well which makes it more tougher for the new guys. One of two things has to happen, either Tom stays late after practice to work with all the wide receivers and tight ends so that they all know what to do or Tom is going to have to simplify the offense for the new guys (Draft Picks & Free Agents).
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Tom relies on Wes, Gronk, and Hernandez too much

    One thing I noticed this past year. I dont know if its O'bies scheme or what, but Brady no longer throws outside the numbers.

    Is this because those throws do a number on his shoulders and are easier to get picked off?  Is it because we dont have the talent outside??  IDK, I recall Ocho coming in and Brady hitting him for a 1st down outside the numbers and then its like ok, go sit down and lets get back to throwing over the middle. A mystery if there ever was one.

    I hope Joshy has learned a lot since leaving here because if they dont change things up, this offense too will go stale like a naked loaf of bread on sidewalk if we dont integrate more players and use more of the football field.


    Brady, hate to say it, played lazilly last year. He even admitted missing an open Ocho several times due to Gronk being in his line of sight first. This must Stop..



    Any team can win ONE SB either by getting lucky or really just playing very tough, smart football in the postseason. We created a dynasty recently. It wasnt based on having the best QB. It wasnt based on ONE dominant WR, and it surely wasnt based on us trying to outscore opponents.


    Look at teams like the Colts. One and Done in SBs. Bears...meh, they got lucky. Steelers, well they have a dominant defense and can run the ball when needed.

    Who else recently???  The Giants, Packers and Saints. These 2 teams have the ability to go back and win again(maybe not the saints now) but my point is , WHY??


    Well, The Saints have a slew of receiving options to throw to to go along with a commitment to run. Their defense has a couple playmakers, but otherwise nothing special.

    The Giants have 4 WR's you have to deal with. You cant key on anyone specific. They all posess the ability to beat you in different ways and they all score TDs.

    The Packers, they have Driver, Jennings, Nelson, James, to go along with their pro bowl TE.


    My point is we are the only team trying to continuously go to the SB that doesnt have a solid WR group. The only one that doesnt attempt to establish a run game.(check the stats b4 you pounce) and the only team that doesnt have some sort of Identity on DEFENSE.


    Packers I.D. - Pass Rush, Turnovers.

    Saints I.D., - Swarm to the ball, Hit hard, force turnovers. They do everything well.

    Giants I.D.  - Best pass rushing 4 man line, Always at the top of league in sacks. They kill your qb and your hopes of winning.


    What Identity does our Defense Have???


    What Other WR options do we use outside of Wes, and maybe Hernandez the Hybrid????



    Think about it....
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ChasaB. Show ChasaB's posts

    Re: Tom relies on Wes, Gronk, and Hernandez too much

    tom relies on them almost as much as Aaron rodgers relies on Finley, jordy nelson, and donald driver..
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Tom relies on Wes, Gronk, and Hernandez too much

    Chasa, u forgot J.James and Greg Jennings.

    His point is we dont spread the ball enough. I agree but I also feel its our own fault for not being able to develop anyone else. Yet in still Ocho should have had more than 15 catches. Thats unnaceptable. I dont know how others saw it, but if they wanted more than 15 catches, they dam sure didnt give him the chance to do so.


    Just Baffling....lol


    Oh well. Lots of "studs' and "sure fire" picks I am hearing about in the draft this year. Lets all wait to see how long the next drafted WR lasts before he is shown the door!
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from OscarGamble. Show OscarGamble's posts

    Re: Tom relies on Wes, Gronk, and Hernandez too much

    I really don't understand the point of this.
    You want more tosses to Tiquan, or what?
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Tom relies on Wes, Gronk, and Hernandez too much

    Tell us something we don't know. We just lost 2 SBs in 4 years because we pass too much in general.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from millergrnv. Show millergrnv's posts

    Re: Tom relies on Wes, Gronk, and Hernandez too much

    In Response to Re: Tom relies on Wes, Gronk, and Hernandez too much:
    [QUOTE]I really don't understand the point of this. You want more tosses to Tiquan, or what?
    Posted by OscarGamble[/QUOTE]

    The point is, the other Wide Receivers have not been developing. Eliminate Wes and the two playmakers in Gronk, and Hernandez at Tight End. Who else Tom can Rely on to get the football to? If you say Deion Branch, that is like betting on winning the million dollar lottery because Branch will have a good game, but will disappear for 1 or 2 games. Because the Offense relies on Tom, you better have other options as well. If you can't develop the other wide receivers, better start running the football.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from millergrnv. Show millergrnv's posts

    Re: Tom relies on Wes, Gronk, and Hernandez too much

    In Response to Re: Tom relies on Wes, Gronk, and Hernandez too much:
    [QUOTE]Tell us something we don't know. We just lost 2 SBs in 4 years because we pass too much in general.
    Posted by BassFishing[/QUOTE]

    This offense has gone from being about winning the Super Bowls to breaking records in the regular season and faltering in the postseason, especially these last two years. Either develop other pass catchers because Tom is going to need them at some point or run the football more. Its obvious when the offense runs the football more, the chances of winning go up.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: Tom relies on Wes, Gronk, and Hernandez too much

    If everyone else didn't suck maybe he would spread it around more.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from millergrnv. Show millergrnv's posts

    Re: Tom relies on Wes, Gronk, and Hernandez too much

    In Response to Re: Tom relies on Wes, Gronk, and Hernandez too much:
    [QUOTE]If everyone else didn't suck maybe he would spread it around more.
    Posted by tcal2-[/QUOTE]

    If the coaches or someone would develop them, they wouldn't suck.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: Tom relies on Wes, Gronk, and Hernandez too much

    Did you ever hear the saying " you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear"?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from millergrnv. Show millergrnv's posts

    Re: Tom relies on Wes, Gronk, and Hernandez too much

    In Response to Re: Tom relies on Wes, Gronk, and Hernandez too much:
    [QUOTE]Did you ever hear the saying " you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear"?
    Posted by tcal2-[/QUOTE]

    Translate that into english
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Tom relies on Wes, Gronk, and Hernandez too much

    In Response to Re: Tom relies on Wes, Gronk, and Hernandez too much:
    [QUOTE]One thing I noticed this past year. I dont know if its O'bies scheme or what, but Brady no longer throws outside the numbers. Is this because those throws do a number on his shoulders and are easier to get picked off?  Is it because we dont have the talent outside??  IDK, I recall Ocho coming in and Brady hitting him for a 1st down outside the numbers and then its like ok, go sit down and lets get back to throwing over the middle. A mystery if there ever was one. I hope Joshy has learned a lot since leaving here because if they dont change things up, this offense too will go stale like a naked loaf of bread on sidewalk if we dont integrate more players and use more of the football field. Brady, hate to say it, played lazilly last year. He even admitted missing an open Ocho several times due to Gronk being in his line of sight first. This must Stop.. Any team can win ONE SB either by getting lucky or really just playing very tough, smart football in the postseason. We created a dynasty recently. It wasnt based on having the best QB. It wasnt based on ONE dominant WR, and it surely wasnt based on us trying to outscore opponents. Look at teams like the Colts. One and Done in SBs. Bears...meh, they got lucky. Steelers, well they have a dominant defense and can run the ball when needed. Who else recently???  The Giants, Packers and Saints. These 2 teams have the ability to go back and win again(maybe not the saints now) but my point is , WHY?? Well, The Saints have a slew of receiving options to throw to to go along with a commitment to run. Their defense has a couple playmakers, but otherwise nothing special. The Giants have 4 WR's you have to deal with. You cant key on anyone specific. They all posess the ability to beat you in different ways and they all score TDs. The Packers, they have Driver, Jennings, Nelson, James, to go along with their pro bowl TE. My point is we are the only team trying to continuously go to the SB that doesnt have a solid WR group. The only one that doesnt attempt to establish a run game.(check the stats b4 you pounce) and the only team that doesnt have some sort of Identity on DEFENSE . Packers I.D . - Pass Rush, Turnovers. Saints I.D ., - Swarm to the ball, Hit hard, force turnovers. They do everything well. Giants I.D.   - Best pass rushing 4 man line, Always at the top of league in sacks. They kill your qb and your hopes of winning. What Identity does our Defense Have??? What Other WR options do we use outside of Wes, and maybe Hernandez the Hybrid???? Think about it....
    Posted by JayShizzle45[/QUOTE]

    BB tries to put together Os and Ds that can match up against all comers in any weather. That means flexibilty as well as quality. It means balance as well as packages and schemes. Look at the Ds of SBs past - all had balance and playmakers front to back. This D will have that as he builds it. I think he has ended up building from the middle to the edges. We will see.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Tom relies on Wes, Gronk, and Hernandez too much

    In Response to Re: Tom relies on Wes, Gronk, and Hernandez too much:
    [QUOTE]Tell us something we don't know. We just lost 2 SBs in 4 years because we pass too much in general.
    Posted by BassFishing[/QUOTE]

    No we lost 2 SBs because the D could not make the critical plays when they needed and the O line was unable to cleanly handle the opponents D line during some key series. Had we been able to run the ball better that too would have made a difference but I would not lump it on the O, especially one so good. Why in the world do so many pleople here think the D is jsut there to be pretty, like cheerleaders? Look at the teams that won SBs here. Look at the D on those teams. Not all time Ds but really good Ds with playmakers on the lline, at LB and in the secondary. Flexibility. Good agasint the run or pass. Good pass rush. Solid and sound and smart.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Tom relies on Wes, Gronk, and Hernandez too much

    In Response to Tom relies on Wes, Gronk, and Hernandez too much:
    [QUOTE]Not saying that its a bad thing, but Tom relies on those 3 way too much. Branch will make a contribution in a game, but won't be heard from for at least 1 or 2 games as if he's been relaesed. This is where the question of is the wide receivers developing. Tom has been in that offense for years and knows all the plays, but for Draft Picks and Free Agents that have come and gone, they don't know that offense like Tom does. The best example is Chad when he got traded late with no time at all due to the lockout and found the offense to be very complex and was a non-factor and Tom is calling his own plays as well which makes it more tougher for the new guys. One of two things has to happen, either Tom stays late after practice to work with all the wide receivers and tight ends so that they all know what to do or Tom is going to have to simplify the offense for the new guys (Draft Picks & Free Agents).
    Posted by millergrnv[/QUOTE]

    On 1 hand those 3 players all caught over 71% of their targets for over 3,500 yards and 33 tds.

    On the other hand it is a problem to be so one dimensional and it is the offensive coordinators responsibility to get other guys involved. We failed at that.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Tom relies on Wes, Gronk, and Hernandez too much

    when will this talk about blame ever end? Tongue Out

    mebbe we should do a straight trade, brady for brees
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Tom relies on Wes, Gronk, and Hernandez too much

    In Response to Re: Tom relies on Wes, Gronk, and Hernandez too much:
    [QUOTE]when will this talk about blame ever end? mebbe we should do a straight trade, brady for brees
    Posted by anonymis[/QUOTE]
    The Patriots only finished 2nd in a field of 32. Not good enough.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from timesedge. Show timesedge's posts

    Re: Tom relies on Wes, Gronk, and Hernandez too much

    Would we even be having this conversation if we'd had 1-2 plays go differently in the SB???

    Let's not overanalyze guys...
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Tom relies on Wes, Gronk, and Hernandez too much

    In Response to Re: Tom relies on Wes, Gronk, and Hernandez too much:
    [QUOTE]If everyone else didn't suck maybe he would spread it around more.
    Posted by tcal2-[/QUOTE]


    +1
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from profootball. Show profootball's posts

    Re: Tom relies on Wes, Gronk, and Hernandez too much

    They are the best weapon that Tom has.  The Pats don't have a deep treat.  What they need is upgrade the D-lines and sign Randy back.  They will be back in the spot light of the super bowl 47.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Tom relies on Wes, Gronk, and Hernandez too much

    Signing Randy Moss, so Brady can stare him down too, is the last thing this offense needs.  Ochocinco didn't just become bad overnight. 

    When Brady was forced to use Reche Caldwell as  a #1 in 2006, NE made it all the way to an AFC title game.  Reche Caldwell did nothing but Brady was forced to make due with what he had then, but making excuses for Brady now is absolutely preposterous. No one mentioned the word "deep threat" prior to 2007. Now it's the 1st excuse used as to why they lost SB 42 with a deep threat and why they lost SB 46 without one even attempted to be used, let alone using a lead RB.

    Commit to BJGE and Ridley or trade for your version of a #1 RB.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Tom relies on Wes, Gronk, and Hernandez too much

    Right on Bassfishing, Keep Rocking out!
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmcintosh. Show andrewmcintosh's posts

    Re: Tom relies on Wes, Gronk, and Hernandez too much

    They didn't win in 03 or 04 because of passing prowess, so if you are arguing for better defensive players that's perfectly logical, however
    1.  The game sets up many more ooportunities for chunk passing yardage now then it did nearly a decade ago.  With some exceptions, it's just easier to move the football down the field throwing it than it is running.
    2. The talent outside the hashes in 2004 was superior to their current group.  The guys on the outside either don't get it (Chad) or can't run (Branch).  They have a grand total of zero players who can separate from man coverage in the intermediate or deep part of the route tree....so why on earth would Tom throw there?  Rewatch any game from this past season, the separation on the outside is marginal at best.  They lack size as well, Ocho has good height but even in his prime he never played tall.
    3.  And the Pats didn't lose the superbowl because they threw it too much, they lost because they didn't execute at a high level, and lost badly at the line of scrimmage.  Outside of Light, the entire line got whipped pretty good by the Giants.  If you are losing 1 on 1 battles up front, the playcalling becomes largely irrelevant.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from krismk. Show krismk's posts

    Re: Tom relies on Wes, Gronk, and Hernandez too much

    I'm just glad that they activated Ridley and deactivated Faulk for the screens and dump-offs against the Giants pass rush.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Tom relies on Wes, Gronk, and Hernandez too much

    In Response to Re: Tom relies on Wes, Gronk, and Hernandez too much:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tom relies on Wes, Gronk, and Hernandez too much : The Patriots only finished 2nd in a field of 32. Not good enough.
    Posted by digger0862[/QUOTE]

    actually, they made it further than I was expecting

    But really, I think it would be an interesting straight up trade.
     
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