Tom, THE CHOKER, Brady

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Tom, THE CHOKER, Brady

    In Response to Re: Tom, THE CHOKER, Brady:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tom, THE CHOKER, Brady : I could substitute Peyton Manning for Tom Brady in this statement and get all kinds of Manning is a choker responses.  Whether pats fans like it or not, given the arguments explaining the pats playoff losses, if pats fans believe manning is a choker, then you must apply that to Brady as well.
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]

    True enough, but personally I think anyone who doesn't recognize that Manning is a great quarterback is an idiot. I'm not crazy about Manning's personality, but I don't think he's a choker--and I think he's certainly in the running for the best QB ever (along with some others, including Brady). 

    The Colts don't win because their defense hasn't been good and their passing game can, at times, be shut down, especially by defenses that figure out how to disrupt the timing which Manning and his receivers rely on so heavily.  Colts are better when their running game is better. 

    Yep . . . lots of similarities between the current Pats and the Colts of the past decade. Hopefully, though, the Pats are getting back to the physicality on both offense and defense that makes them winners.




     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from CHUBBIE99. Show CHUBBIE99's posts

    Re: Tom, THE CHOKER, Brady

    In Response to Re: Tom, THE CHOKER, Brady:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tom, THE CHOKER, Brady : ahha Didn't you hear?  Tom has "choked" very "severely" after missing the 2008 season blowing his leg out. Has any QB ever had a 9-1 TD/Int ratio in NFL history?
    Posted by BBReigns[/QUOTE] Did anybody throw more 2 yard slants? 1 every 2 passes.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from jpBsSoxFan. Show jpBsSoxFan's posts

    Re: Tom, THE CHOKER, Brady

    In Response to Re: Tom, THE CHOKER, Brady:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tom, THE CHOKER, Brady : Did anybody throw more 2 yard slants? 1 every 2 passes.
    Posted by CHUBBIE99[/QUOTE]

    Have you ever heard of yards after the catch?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Tom, THE CHOKER, Brady

    In Response to Re: Tom, THE CHOKER, Brady:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tom, THE CHOKER, Brady : Did anybody throw more 2 yard slants? 1 every 2 passes.
    Posted by CHUBBIE99[/QUOTE]

    I assume you are talking about Mark Sanchez. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Tom, THE CHOKER, Brady

    In Response to Re: Tom, THE CHOKER, Brady:
    [QUOTE]You're missing my point, Rusty. I'm not sure why you feel the need to defend Brady to me? I'm as big a Brady homer as anyone out there but if you consider Manning to be a choker for losing to good teams like the Steelers and Patriots then surely you have to think that Brady's loss to the 6th seeded Giants and Jets were both monumental choke jobs by him? Whats that old addage....defense wins championships! Lets hope the Pats stay on the right track to building a championship caliber defense.
    Posted by CaptainZdeno33[/QUOTE]

    CappyZ - What's new?  Rusty's perspective is so single minded that I am not sure he is capable of reading constructive patriot criticism without his mind telling him that the words acutally say something else.  If that's the case, then his inability to "get it" is not his fault - i.e. his mind is playing tricks on him.

    On the other hand, maybe he does get it.  Maybe he just refuses to acknowledge the logic.

    I
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from harleyroadking11. Show harleyroadking11's posts

    Re: Tom, THE CHOKER, Brady

    In Response to Tom, THE CHOKER, Brady:
    [QUOTE]Let's set the super bowl loss aside. The last two playoff loses by the patriots demonstrated TB's lack of nerve for the big stage. It wasn't always this way. The young brave Tom Brady of old was key to our playoff wins. Then came the dreadful knee injury and mentally, he has not been the same since! NE will not win any meaningful playoff game again with Tom Brady as the quarterback. I know the pundits will say I am a troll, etc. The fact is that he has choked very severely in two consecutive playoff games. The jets did not do anything special. BB is never too slow to take blame for a game but he instead cited execution failures.  Time to find another young fearless quarterback ....
    Posted by rezadude[/QUOTE]


    this needs to be said SHUT UP

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Tom, THE CHOKER, Brady

    In Response to Re: Tom, THE CHOKER, Brady:
    [QUOTE]You're missing my point, Rusty. I'm not sure why you feel the need to defend Brady to me? I'm as big a Brady homer as anyone out there but if you consider Manning to be a choker for losing to good teams like the Steelers and Patriots then surely you have to think that Brady's loss to the 6th seeded Giants and Jets were both monumental choke jobs by him? Whats that old addage....defense wins championships! Lets hope the Pats stay on the right track to building a championship caliber defense.
    Posted by CaptainZdeno33[/QUOTE]

    Dude, I am not missing your point. At all.

    Brady was putting up really good seasons right along Manning through 2003.

    And winning SBs.

    Check Manning's seasons prior to 2004. Yup.  The stats aren't that gaudy, are they?

    Those seasons came in the AFC East, outside in the elements.  Manning's numbers only became Manningesque when Reggie Wayne arrived and the Colts moved into a new division with Houston, Jax and Tenn.

    LIke I said, the media was inside Gomer's jock since 1998 when he was a rookie and Manning struggled mighitly for a #1 overall pick.

    Fair or not, Manning was hyped to the nth degree. This is my point.  So, when Manning loses, it's perceived more so as a choke than it probably should be.

    Maybe if the media didn't spend the last 10-15 years trying to tell how incredible Manning was, we'd see that although he has been great during the regular season, the postseason is a different story.

    Are we really still having this discussion?  Brady is 14-5 in the postseason and has played 4 less seasons and had 3 coordinators to Gomer's 1.

    No Pats ever claimed Brady was perfect either.  Enough with the pretend games that Manning is on Brady's level in the postseason.

    No one really is in the cap era.


     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Tom, THE CHOKER, Brady

    In Response to Re: Tom, THE CHOKER, Brady:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tom, THE CHOKER, Brady : Did anybody throw more 2 yard slants? 1 every 2 passes.
    Posted by CHUBBIE99[/QUOTE]

    Yes, Joe Montana.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Tom, THE CHOKER, Brady

    I introduced Brady because he and Manning are considered the two best QBs in the game.

    Both are hyped, but Manning has always been more hyped by the media, so when he loses it's perceived more so as a choke.

    Some of it is legit, some of it isn't.

    As far as I can see Brady only had one BAD playoff game and that was in 2009.

    He was mediocre this year, but far from bad. 

    I guess if people want to consider 2009 a choke, so be it. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Tom, THE CHOKER, Brady

    WHoderwatzit has it in his panty draw. Ask him for it. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Tom, THE CHOKER, Brady

    Dude, I am not missing your point. At all.

    Brady was putting up really good seasons right along Manning through 2003.
    Response:  
    Here's how each looked their first 4 seasons (then manning 02 and 03) - completion %, yds, td/int, d ranking pts/yds
    1st Season: PM - 57% 3700 26/28, D 29/29 - TB - on the bench 
    2nd Season: PM -62% 4100 26/15, D 17/15;  TB - 64% 2800 18/12, D 6/24  
    3rd Season: PM - 63% 4400 33/15, D 15/21;  TB - 62% 3800 28/14, D 17/23
    4th Season: PM - 63% 4100 26/23, D 31/29;  TB - 60% 3600 23/12, D 1/7 
    5th Season:  PM (2002) - 66% 4200 27/19, D 7/8
    6th Season: PM (2003) - 67% 4300 29/10, D 20/11

    And winning SBs.
    Response:  Isn't this a team award?  Did you know that in Brady's first 3 playoff seasons (SB's) that the defense had 25 turnovers in 9 games?   

    Check Manning's seasons prior to 2004. Yup.  The stats aren't that gaudy, are they?Those seasons came in the AFC East, outside in the elements.  Manning's numbers only became Manningesque when Reggie Wayne arrived and the Colts moved into a new division with Houston, Jax and Tenn.
    Response:  see above -  his numbers were pretty darn good.  His averages since:  67% 4300 33/13; D 12/16 - Not too far off from what he was doing before. 

    LIke I said, the media was inside Gomer's jock since 1998 when he was a rookie and Manning struggled mighitly for a #1 overall pick.
    Response:  yes 2 SB appearances, a SB MVP, 4 MVP's mighty struggle indeed.  I'll chalk your comment up to homerism. 

    Fair or not, Manning was hyped to the nth degree. This is my point.  So, when Manning loses, it's perceived more so as a choke than it probably should be.
    Response:  It is perceived as a choke only by those wishing to define excellence or failure by overall team success. 

    Maybe if the media didn't spend the last 10-15 years trying to tell how incredible Manning was, we'd see that although he has been great during the regular season, the postseason is a different story.
    Response:  This is a typical pats fan response.  What I've found is that if the media is not feeding at the collective sack of the patriots ALL OF THE TIME, then pats fans feel slighted.  Its ridiculous, but it is true. 

    Are we really still having this discussion?  Brady is 14-5 in the postseason and has played 4 less seasons and had 3 coordinators to Gomer's 1.
    Response:  There's the "always" response - Brady's record - not the team's.  Wonder whether Bruschi, Vrabel, McGinest, Seymour, Wilfork, Warren, Law, Milloy, Harrison, and Samuel think of this?  I wonder if they think they deserve some credit for that record?

    No Pats ever claimed Brady was perfect either.  Enough with the pretend games that Manning is on Brady's level in the postseason.
    Response:  this is bs.  You are inferring that people claimed Manning was perfect.  Typical hate for any recognition of anything or anyone outside boston.  Actually Manning is right there with Brady in the post season. 

    No one really is in the cap era.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Tom, THE CHOKER, Brady

    In Response to Re: Tom, THE CHOKER, Brady:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tom, THE CHOKER, Brady : I hope you are not serious. The effects of global warming are MORE EXTREME WEATHER CONDITIONS. And if you have been paying attention, this is in fact what we are seeing. Record floods in Australia, record heat in the former USSR have both contributed to skyrocketing prices for agricultural commodities. We are seeing extreme periods of drought and flooding in various parts of the US over the past decade. And, of course, record world wide temperatures where the hottest years are all recent. If you would choose a neurosurgeon to operate on you or your family if brain surgery were required, if you see a doctor or take medication prescribed by a doctor, if you use a computer or a cell phone, if you drive a car, fly in a plane or watch TV... heck, if you use electricity! ...then you are reaping the values of scientific analysis. If you choose to listen to the same voices that stated that smoking didnt cause cancer then feel free to engage in none of the above.
    Posted by portfolio1[/QUOTE]

    So says Drs. Fine, Howard and Howard.


     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Tom, THE CHOKER, Brady

    In Response to Re: Tom, THE CHOKER, Brady:
    [QUOTE]I introduced Brady because he and Manning are considered the two best QBs in the game. Both are hyped, but Manning has always been more hyped by the media, so when he loses it's perceived more so as a choke. Some of it is legit, some of it isn't. As far as I can see Brady only had one BAD playoff game and that was in 2009. He was mediocre this year, but far from bad.  I guess if people want to consider 2009 a choke, so be it. 
    Posted by BBReigns[/QUOTE]

    Which Manning chokes are legit Rusty? 

    Do you credit brady with the 01 victories vs. Oakland and Pitt?
    How about the 03 victories vs. Tenn and Indy?
    What do you think about Brady's 05 loss vs. Denver?
    What about the 06 victory vs. SD or the loss vs. Indy?
    What about the 07 victory vs. SD or the SB loss where he made his famous "17 pts?  Is plax going to play defense" comment? 

    Here's my point - yes Manning has had some bad playoff games (a couple at the hands of the pats), but by and large, he's been just as effective and efficient in the playoffs as Brady.  The difference, however, is that twice his kicker could not extend or win the game, when he was having a bad game, his defense did not often have his back like Brady's d did. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Tom, THE CHOKER, Brady

    How about showing up in NY in 2001 and being shutout?    Maybe I need to look back, but didn't he look awful against the Jets in the playoffs early in his career?

    He battled through a game against Balt circa 2006 on the road even though he wasn't very good, so he gets credit there. 

    What about the choke at home against Pitt or SD?  Just admit it.  His play wasn't all that great when he had an all world offense alongside him.

    Or in 2004 when he had the rules adjusted to be sure the Chuck Rule was in favor of how he runs his offense?

    We could go on. 

    This is where I back away from this because you are such an enamored Indy homer with no real semblance of cheering for any other pro team before, you cannot see straight.  Gomer will always be the end all be all for you regardless of his weak showings in the playoffs at times.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from bubthegrub2. Show bubthegrub2's posts

    Re: Tom, THE CHOKER, Brady

    I really love how trolls will come here and say Brady is washed up after one simple loss! Evidently he did not watch the Jests game last month. It wasn't him playing poorly, or the line being pushed around. Many times he had all day to throw the ball. But nobody got open. You do have to give the Jests defense their due (begrudgingly). They never let Tom get into rhythm until late in the 3rd. Had the Patriots defense managed to force a turnover or two (something they've been doing regularly) it would have been a different game. A little pressure on Sanchez would have helped, too. So you cannot blame that loss on Brady. Even the Ravens game a year ago they were down big right off the bat. He did play poorly, but the Ravens defense made a lot of QBs look bad. As for Dogg's jumping in, I will not comment. Anyone can look up both QB's playoff numbers and it's a no-brainer! I think Brady still has what it takes to win it all. And the supporting cast will be better next season! Don't know that I'd say that about either the Jests or Colts.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN. Show COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN's posts

    Re: Tom, THE CHOKER, Brady

    hey look, think i have spawned some contrarians! nothing personal dude, me thinks you just tried a bit too hard to get the please-notice-me vote... to all u kool-aiders who think i am the ONLY centrist on this board... others have the capacity to look at both sides of the street too i guess. but still when you link brady to CHOKER, my first thought was if the video gisele took with him on that leash got out!!
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Tom, THE CHOKER, Brady

    How about showing up in NY in 2001 and being shutout?    Maybe I need to look back, but didn't he look awful against the Jets in the playoffs early in his career?
    Response:  the jets scored on their first 3 possessions and on 4 of their first 5. Manning put the colts in FG range on their first possession and vanderjagt missed a FG. On the colts second possession they muffed a Kickoff leading to a Jets TD.  It was 34-0 before Manning threw an Int.   

    He battled through a game against Balt circa 2006 on the road even though he wasn't very good, so he gets credit there. 
    Response:  As brady gets credit for allowing his FG kicker to frequently win games. 

    What about the choke at home against Pitt or SD?  Just admit it.  His play wasn't all that great when he had an all world offense alongside him.
    Response:  Pitt - Manning put the team in FG range to tie the game at the end of regulation and Vanderjagt missed.  Did this ever happen to Brady?
    SD - Manning played well in both games. 

    Or in 2004 when he had the rules adjusted to be sure the Chuck Rule was in favor of how he runs his offense?
    Response: in 04 the colts ran for 46 yards while the pats ran for over 200. 
    We could go on. 
    response: Please go on. 
    This is where I back away from this because you are such an enamored Indy homer with no real semblance of cheering for any other pro team before, you cannot see straight.  Gomer will always be the end all be all for you regardless of his weak showings in the playoffs at times.
    response:  not so much about Manning here as it is when you want to crucify him, you pick games that don't fit. 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Tom, THE CHOKER, Brady

    In Response to Re: Tom, THE CHOKER, Brady:
    [QUOTE]Oh the old kicker argument, your still trying to make that stick huh underdogg? It was a bull sh*t point 5 years ago and its still bull sh*t. Get over it Brady is better then Manning and Manning is better then every other QB not named Brady. Seriously move on.
    Posted by MVPkilla4life[/QUOTE]

    Do you want to know why cliches become cliches?  Because they are true and this one is too.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Tom, THE CHOKER, Brady

    In Response to Re: Tom, THE CHOKER, Brady:
    [QUOTE]I really love how trolls will come here and say Brady is washed up after one simple loss! Evidently he did not watch the Jests game last month. It wasn't him playing poorly, or the line being pushed around. Many times he had all day to throw the ball. But nobody got open. You do have to give the Jests defense their due (begrudgingly). They never let Tom get into rhythm until late in the 3rd. Had the Patriots defense managed to force a turnover or two (something they've been doing regularly) it would have been a different game. A little pressure on Sanchez would have helped, too. So you cannot blame that loss on Brady. Even the Ravens game a year ago they were down big right off the bat. He did play poorly, but the Ravens defense made a lot of QBs look bad. As for Dogg's jumping in, I will not comment. Anyone can look up both QB's playoff numbers and it's a no-brainer! I think Brady still has what it takes to win it all. And the supporting cast will be better next season! Don't know that I'd say that about either the Jests or Colts.
    Posted by bubthegrub2[/QUOTE]
    LOL - "I will not comment".  But..."nyone can look up both Qb's numbers and its a no brainer" - That's some no comment.  Which number would you like to look up besides record.  QB rating, TD's, Ints, completion percentage are all comparable.  Manning has thrown for about 1000 yards more.  Yards Per attempt.  Manning higher.

    Oh wait, but he's won more games so he is better because his defense and kicker were better.  Yep, good logic.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Tom, THE CHOKER, Brady

    Nice one troll! Maybe you and UD6 can have a nice long instant message session together on AOL or yahoo.




     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from ChasaB. Show ChasaB's posts

    Re: Tom, THE CHOKER, Brady

    In Response to Re: Tom, THE CHOKER, Brady:
    [QUOTE]one more to add to ignore
    Posted by MordecaiBloodmoon[/QUOTE]

    this, so much.

    if brady was a choke artist he wouldnt have 2 superbowl mvp's and 3 rings
     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from southnpatsfan. Show southnpatsfan's posts

    Re: Tom, THE CHOKER, Brady

    This whole thread is ridiculous, anybody call Tom a choker is a MORON!!!
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from stillgridlocked. Show stillgridlocked's posts

    Re: Tom, THE CHOKER, Brady

    Exactly. 

    The Crumpler drop early on. Chung's call for a fake punt. The O-Line disappearing along with the run game - two things that kept Brady from being hammered all year long. Lastly but not least zero coaching adjustments to counter the Jets game plan on D.  Yes Brady had a bad game imo but he doesn't own that loss by himself.

    In Response to Re: Tom, THE CHOKER, Brady:
    [QUOTE]The Jets loss was a team loss as was the Baltimore game.   Choke is a strong word.
    Posted by Getzo[/QUOTE]
     
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