Top Ten "team" Defense

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from gandalf433. Show gandalf433's posts

    Top Ten "team" Defense

    The Pats are a top ten "team" defense. Yeah, Yeah, they are ranked 32nd in pass defense, Yadda, Yadda, Yadda. 

    The statistic that counts most; after wins, is the point differential between points for and points against. When you score a lot of points in this league, you are going to give the other team a chance to move the ball as well. 

    Currently the five teams that have the best differential are: The Pack, Texans, Saints, Pats, and Niners. Throw in the Ravens and you have the best teams in the NFL right now. 

    When talking about an NFL defense, if you want any credibility at all, you have to look at the "team" and factor in what the offense is doing and how that affects the opposing teams' repetitions. 

    This season is unlike any season prior, the rules favoring the pass play dictate that any average team is going to be able to pass for greater than 300 yards. 




     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from kansaspatriot. Show kansaspatriot's posts

    Re: Top Ten "team" Defense

    In Response to Top Ten "team" Defense:
    [QUOTE]The statistic that counts most; after wins, is the point differential between points for and points against. Posted by gandalf433[/QUOTE]

    uh, not true. The statistic that counts more is a Win.

    [QUOTE]When you score a lot of points in this league, you are going to give the other team a chance to move the ball as well.Posted by gandalf433[/QUOTE]

    maybe
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Top Ten "team" Defense

    Good post. Interesting stat. It doesn't get mentioned much.

    Packers (11-0) +155
    Texans (8-3) +114
    Saints (8-3) +110
    Patriots (8-3) +108
    49ers (9-2) +101
    Ravens (8-3) +90

    Other notables,

    Lions (7-4) +70
    Bears (7-4) +56
    Steelers (8-3) +45
    Bengals (7-4) +44
    Falcons (7-4) +32
    Jets (6-5) +15
    Raiders (7-4) -14 (1st place team!)

    Remaining opponents,

    Colts (0-11) -177 LOL!
    Redskins (4-7) -39
    Broncos (6-5) -39 (-4 w/ Tebow)
    Dolphins (3-9) +6 (they are better than their record)
    Bills (5-6) -20
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Top Ten "team" Defense

    I think the Pats were second last year, behind if I remember correctly...the Chargers.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Top Ten "team" Defense

    Point differential can sometimes be more indicative than W-L heading into the playoffs.

    I would say this about the Pats' "D" though ... they've played a soft offensive schedule. 

    They've played only two of the top ten scoring teams in the leauge, and those were Buffalo, who is living off it's hot start, and the Cowboys, who were in a funk when they played NE, and did so before the Demarco Murray revolution and Romo healing up.

    Other than that they've basicaly played a bunch of middle of the pack offenses.

    At times they've looked convincing (Dallas, Oakland) and at times they've looked bad (Miami, SD, Pitt-Pitt-Pitt).

    The big plus, is that they seem to get pressure a little easier than last season. But then, when you fire all of your OLBs and switch to 43 ... you should get some kind of result.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Top Ten "team" Defense

    In Response to Re: Top Ten "team" Defense:
    [QUOTE]I think the Pats were second last year, behind if I remember correctly...the Chargers.
    Posted by shenanigan[/QUOTE]
    Nope. The top 5 last year,
    Patriots +205
    Packers +148
    Steelers +143
    Falcons +126
    Chargers +119
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Top Ten "team" Defense

    In Response to Re: Top Ten "team" Defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Top Ten "team" Defense : Nope. The top 5 last year, Patriots +205 Packers +148 Steelers +143 Falcons +126 Chargers +119
    Posted by digger0862[/QUOTE]

    Well then it's clear that we were robbed since the Pack and Steelers ended up in the SB. I guess they'll just have to win it this year.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tomhab. Show Tomhab's posts

    Re: Top Ten "team" Defense

    Maybe next year ESPN wil come up with a Total Defensive Stat like they did with the TQR.  They could account for Garbage time yardage and oints give up when your team has a 38-13 lead in the 4th quarter like against the Eagles and Fins.

    Soft schedule or not they make the stops/turnovers when they need to and they don't give up a lot of points.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Top Ten "team" Defense

    In Response to Re: Top Ten "team" Defense:
    [QUOTE]Well then it's clear that we were robbed since the Pack and Steelers ended up in the SB. I guess they'll just have to win it this year.
    Posted by shenanigan[/QUOTE]
    Yes, it makes last year's loss to the Jets even more painful.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tomhab. Show Tomhab's posts

    Re: Top Ten "team" Defense

    knowing the Jest won't be around in the playoffs this year eases the pain a little
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Top Ten "team" Defense

    You know this defensive debate (good/not good) is kind of funny...I think we will find out how good this defense really is in the playoffs...and I don't think it will be good...it is what it is.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Top Ten "team" Defense

    In Response to Re: Top Ten "team" Defense:
    [QUOTE]You know this defensive debate (good/not good) is kind of funny...I think we will find out how good this defense really is in the playoffs...and I don't think it will be good...it is what it is.
    Posted by mthurl[/QUOTE]

    There's some questions for them. When you look at the QBs they've played they haven't done well with good ones. Top level QBs this year Roethlisburger L Fitz. L Mid level Campbell (he was playing good at the time). W Romo. W Manning. L Bad Sanchez. W Palio. W Young. W Henne. W Rivers I suppose but I think it his problems of late might be injury related. W The best test might come against the Bills in week 17. Hopefully there is some improvement.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Top Ten "team" Defense

    This defense is good enough as long as the offense and special teams
    do their jobs as well. We will only go as far as Brady takes us, not the defense. Anyone who thinks the defense can or should win games for us
    is crazy. They can't and they won't. They just need to keep doing what they're doing, no more, no less.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Top Ten "team" Defense

    I go by the rule of (+/-) a FG. You add a FG and take one away and your D generally fails into that category. So 95% of games the Pats D will fall somewhere between the 5th best in the league to the 20th in the league. By eye that looks right as sometimes they can be dominant and others look lost. The question becomes which D will show up?

    BTW Z - if you go across all teams most only play 1 or 2 top 10 O's a year soit's equal playing field across the league pretty much. Actually with few exceptions when you take the average ppg of every teams opponents O and average them together 90% of the league will be within a FG of each other. So even though it looks initially like he Pats D has faced the same level of O as other teams on average ppg they actually have. Of course that could change after they play Den and Indy lol but as of this week it holds true
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Top Ten "team" Defense

    In Response to Re: Top Ten "team" Defense:
    [QUOTE]I go by the rule of (+/-) a FG. You add a FG and take one away and your D generally fails into that category. So 95% of games the Pats D will fall somewhere between the 5th best in the league to the 20th in the league. By eye that looks right as sometimes they can be dominant and others look lost. The question becomes which D will show up? BTW Z - if you go across all teams most only play 1 or 2 top 10 O's a year soit's equal playing field across the league pretty much. Actually with few exceptions when you take the average ppg of every teams opponents O and average them together 90% of the league will be within a FG of each other. So even though it looks initially like he Pats D has faced the same level of O as other teams on average ppg they actually have. Of course that could change after they play Den and Indy lol but as of this week it holds true
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    There is a distinct curve though, to the top ten. The bottom three or four are usually within 3 points ... but after that there is a huge pickup. NE, NO, and GB are obviously the class of the NFL. 

    There are nine teams that play each of them twice to start with. If NE's "D" had shown up against any of them, or even any of them plus the Texans (with Schaub) or Lions, I would feel more comfortable. 

    They haven't.  Playing the Jets twice, and struggling to stop team offenses like Miami and Pitt worries me because they are middle of the pack teams moving the ball and scoring on the defense, and bottom of the barrel offenses they look good against.  

    When the offense struggles a bit against Pittsburgh's defense ... at least there is some logic to it ... because there is more than a 3 point spread between their defense and the 20th placed team. 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Top Ten "team" Defense

    In Response to Top Ten "team" Defense:
    [QUOTE]This season is unlike any season prior, the rules favoring the pass play dictate that any average team is going to be able to pass for greater than 300 yards. 
    Posted by gandalf433[/QUOTE]


    Sorry Olorin, but the average team has about 230 passing yards a game, not "greater than 300". As a matter of fact, only four QBs average that many yards passing a game. 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Top Ten "team" Defense

    In Response to Re: Top Ten "team" Defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Top Ten "team" Defense : Sorry Olorin, but the average team has about 230 passing yards a game, not "greater than 300". As a matter of fact, only four QBs average that many yards passing a game. 
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]


    Additionally, I'm tired of hearing people say yards don't matter. 

    Football, the last time I checked, is a game of field position and clock management. 

    Giving up massive amounts of yardage to opponents, even when you are holding them to FGs or short punts, equates to poor starting field position for your offense and less time for them to use the field. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Top Ten "team" Defense

    In Response to Re: Top Ten "team" Defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Top Ten "team" Defense : Nope. The top 5 last year, Patriots +205 Packers +148 Steelers +143 Falcons +126 Chargers +119
    Posted by digger0862[/QUOTE]

    Which only goes to show that in the playoffs our offense has been the problem. We need to control the game from start to finish by being a well balanced, unpredictable offense.  Keep the other QB off the field and keep our defense well rested and attacking.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: Top Ten "team" Defense

    In Response to Re: Top Ten "team" Defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Top Ten "team" Defense : Additionally, I'm tired of hearing people say yards don't matter.  Football, the last time I checked, is a game of field position and clock management.  Giving up massive amounts of yardage to opponents, even when you are holding them to FGs or short punts, equates to poor starting field position for your offense and less time for them to use the field. 
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]

    While I agree with most of what you say ZB, I still think how well this D plays situational football will determine their success or failure (eg: Red Zone D, 3rd and 4th down efficiency). Especially in the playoffs. The funny thing is that if you want to beat Brady you have to keep the ball away from him (running game) or put him in poor field position. and make the offense play from behind and become predictable. IT's obvious that this is not the 2001 or 2003 Pats D. It is not a D that will WIN games, but rather a defense that (pardon the pun) prevents the other team from scoring more points than Brady & Co.  The Packers , The Patriots and Saints are the best teams in the NFL and none of them have a great SB caliber defense. That said one these teams will be in the Super Bowl.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from ejusox21. Show ejusox21's posts

    Re: Top Ten "team" Defense

    I dont care what the stats say...I cant stand watching this D give up pass play after pass play after pass play. Especially on 3rd downs! Dont forget that we have played some of the worst offences that the league has to offer during this so called improvement phase. I know that it is what it is but, as much as I want to see this team win it all, the D is what is going to stop that. I will say that I love the effort by the D. Its not like they dont try. But they are just not good enough. I hope I am dead wrong!
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Top Ten "team" Defense

    In Response to Re: Top Ten "team" Defense:
    [QUOTE]I dont care what the stats say...I cant stand watching this D give up pass play after pass play after pass play. Especially on 3rd downs! Dont forget that we have played some of the worst offences that the league has to offer during this so called improvement phase. I know that it is what it is but, as much as I want to see this team win it all, the D is what is going to stop that. I will say that I love the effort by the D. Its not like they dont try. But they are just not good enough. I hope I am dead wrong!
    Posted by ejusox21[/QUOTE]
    In the last four games the defense has been better on 3rd downs, 35%, which would be top 10 in the league.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from southnpatsfan. Show southnpatsfan's posts

    Re: Top Ten "team" Defense

    I never have an never will claim to be a football guru, I'm certainly not an expert, like the ones that contribute to this board. The thing that bothers me is the constant slam on the slow starts, the poor defense, ect,ect. Now this is my opinion (we're all allowed one correct?) Check the last 3 games, the O comes out an says (ok, show us what you got so we can adjust) an adjust they do. Someone mentioned he can't stand watching the opponent completing these long balls, good lord man every team should have the capabilities of moving the ball, but you'll notice when their hand gets shown, they damn near get shut down. Same with the O, Tom runs a couple sets, makes the adjustments and takes off.

    Just my opinion
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Top Ten "team" Defense

    In Response to Re: Top Ten "team" Defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Top Ten "team" Defense : While I agree with most of what you say ZB, I still think how well this D plays situational football will determine their success or failure (eg: Red Zone D, 3rd and 4th down efficiency). Especially in the playoffs. The funny thing is that if you want to beat Brady you have to keep the ball away from him (running game) or put him in poor field position. and make the offense play from behind and become predictable. IT's obvious that this is not the 2001 or 2003 Pats D. It is not a D that will WIN games, but rather a defense that (pardon the pun) prevents the other team from scoring more points than Brady & Co.  The Packers , The Patriots and Saints are the best teams in the NFL and none of them have a great SB caliber defense. That said one these teams will be in the Super Bowl.
    Posted by JohnHannahrulz[/QUOTE]


    Of course. I would take a defense that plays good situational football (Redzone, 3rd/4th down) and gives up yards than one that plays bad situational football, but gives up tons of big plays.

    The problem is that NE's defense is spotty at situational football. 

    NE's "D" is 26th in 3rd down percentage. 
    NE's "D" is dead last in pass plays over 20 yards.
    NE's "D" is very good in 40+ yards at only 4.
    NE's "D" is 13th in RedZoneTD perc at 50%
    BUT
    NE's "D" is also dead last in Redzone attempts at 4 per game -- essentially 2 TDs per game in the Redzone then.

    Houston allows 2.5 Redzone attempts per game and a 50% Redzone "D.", so 1 about 1 Redzone TD per game.

    Even though they have identical Redzone percentages, the fact that Houston allows less between the 20's gives their defense a better overall Redzone percentage. 

    Giving up yards between the 20's is over-rated by some people, that is sure; however, it is critically under-rated on this forum, where it's become a mantra that "it doesn't matter."
     

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