Trade Deadline is tuesday oct 20

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    Re: trade deadline

    In Response to Re: trade deadline:
    [QUOTE] In regards to Richard Seymour the man did what he had to do to get his $. You and I would do the same thing. Considering he was the one constant on a dominant defensive line that was largely responsible for our great defenses of 01-04 I think we should respect what he did for us and wish him well in Oak. After all he does have 3 rings as a Patriot!
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]
    Agreed.  Plus three more division championships, various playoff victories in the non-ring years, both of the two longest undefeated streaks in NFL history, and the NFL's only 16-0 regular season.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: trade deadline

    Fred Jackson. 

    He was a pain in the behind when we faced Buffalo, he can do it all. 

    The guy averages 4.6 yards per carry. I love the team we have right now, my only concern is that we lost our best RB and O'brien might go back to those stupid screen passes. 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from IndianaPatsFan. Show IndianaPatsFan's posts

    Re: trade deadline

    Don't we have some cap room left for this season, you know, from trading Seymour? Won't that go to waste if we don't use it this year to re-sign someone already on the roster or someone from another team?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: trade deadline

    In Response to Re: trade deadline:
    [QUOTE]Fred Jackson.  He was a pain in the behind when we faced Buffalo, he can do it all.  The guy averages 4.6 yards per carry. I love the team we have right now, my only concern is that we lost our best RB and O'brien might go back to those stupid screen passes. 
    Posted by 49Patriots[/QUOTE]

    I'd be a fan of getting Jackson, he runs hard, can carry it between the tackles, can catch it out of the backfield and has a lot of tread left on the tires.

    It's just a matter of Buffalo's willingness to trade him and what the requested compensation would be.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from MaritimePatsFan. Show MaritimePatsFan's posts

    Re: trade deadline

    In Response to Re: trade deadline:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: trade deadline : So what you're saying is that we should only play Cover 1 and Cover 3?  What if there's no real playmaking threat at the tight end position?  Can McGowan play the deep zone?  Will he be able to communicate to his teammates and pick up the right assignments?  What if the Patriots want to blitz Merriweather?  That would leave McGowan in center field by himself.  What if they want to run a cover 3 with two safeties over the top and one corner?  Or cover 4?  Or Robber?  Can McGowan do all of these things?  I haven't seen anything to prove that he can, or else he would. Sanders plays a pivotal role in coordinating communication between players in the secondary.  He also does his job, which is typically to stay over the top and pick up the deepest route in his zone.  One of the things I've noticed about him is that he's also a superb open field tackler.  McGowan has strictly played underneath as a LB/OLB hybrid, and that is NOT all that a safety does in a successful defense.  Until I see that McGowan can play all facets of the safety position, then having a safety who can ONLY play in the box is prohibitive. In my one opportunity to see McGowan in zone, he gave up a touchdown to the Jets. There's a reason Sanders is back there. Also, if you think so poorly of Sanders, what do you think other teams would think?  How much value does a player have when traded well after training camp?  Do you think a safety can learn the entire defensive playbook on such short notice?  And if he learns too slowly, how many touchdowns will he give up in the meantime? IF Sanders is traded, I suspect it wouldn't be until after the season. And WHERE ARE YOU GETTING ALL OF THIS CONFIDENCE IN CHUNG???
    Posted by NickC1188[/QUOTE]

    Nick first you seemed to direct all of your rebuttal to me in particular when you and I seem to share some of the same views, and you should have been directing them at some of the other posters I was conversing with. Also, you commented on a few things that basically reiterated what I said in a later post just down the page from the post you replied to. To clarify, I like Sanders I like him on the team. I do not think he will get moved before the deadline. Do I think at the end of the season he is possibly the odd man out if the team resigns McGowan, yes I do. The confidence I have in Chung comes from the trust I have in BB and from all the evaluators who during the draft said what a good pick that was. Is that blind faith, yes maybe it is, but right now I am ok with it. In my opinion Bill`s drafting of defensive talent is bang on. When people say his drafting has fallen a bit over the years normally I find it to be on the offensive side of the ball. As for McGowan being able to drop into zone coverage, I think a guy who can cover tight ends man to man can drop deep into a cover 4  and do it effectively. I think you said Sanders does all the communicating on the back end. I do believe Merriweather has taken a big step in that department, and will continue to develop in that area. I remember hearing Rodney say he had to go over and say to Merriweather "Hey kid I`m the leader of the secondary". I think that kinda shows the strides he has made with that part of his game.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from MaritimePatsFan. Show MaritimePatsFan's posts

    Re: trade deadline

    Also Nick, I never once said I thought poorly of Sanders. I said he was a solid FS in the NFL. I think he is a good Safety but not a great Safety. Why is it so bad if I think a 2nd round pick, who by some evaluators thought a 1st round talent, in Chung has more potential than Sanders does? I just don't think Sanders will be that big playmaker. His speed is below avg. but does make up for it with instincts. His tackling ability is solid but I have seen him miss a few open field tacklers a few times this season.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from NickC1188. Show NickC1188's posts

    Re: trade deadline

    In Response to Re: trade deadline:
    [QUOTE]Also Nick, I never once said I thought poorly of Sanders. I said he was a solid FS in the NFL. I think he is a good Safety but not a great Safety. Why is it so bad if I think a 2nd round pick, who by some evaluators thought a 1st round talent, in Chung has more potential than Sanders does? I just don't think Sanders will be that big playmaker. His speed is below avg. but does make up for it with instincts. His tackling ability is solid but I have seen him miss a few open field tacklers a few times this season.
    Posted by MaritimePatsFan[/QUOTE]

    First, I hope I don't offend you... I tend to come off as more polite when talking in person - a lot of communication is body language, which is lost on these boards.  Second, I try to keep my responses general so that they apply to everyone, but I was mostly responding to you.  A lot of the posts on here are so confusing that I can't configure a response.  Your point seems straightforward enough, so I'll try to put something together.

    My main point is that I don't think OTHER teams think highly enough of Sanders to trade something significant for him.  Also, if they're not going to trade something significant for him, then I think he has more value continuing to do his job than anything you could get in return.

    Also, from my experience, playing zone is a COMPLETELY different mentality than playing man-to-man.  The footwork is different, the reads are more complicated, and the importance of continuity among the personnel playing the zones is essential.  You can't put a price on the fact that Sanders has been our starting safety for the past two years, which means everybody around him knows exactly what he's doing and when.  I remember when I was playing OLB and I had flats zone and it was like starting from day one in training camp with regards to knowing whether guys around me would pick up certain routes or not and when.  Same goes for knowing if the middle linebackers were going to pick the guy up.  Naturally, priority goes to the deepest route, but we've already seen McGowan get burned against the Jets, while Guyton got lured into following the tight end on an out while McGahee snuck over the middle to score a touchdown during the Ravens game.

    To illustrate my point,
    Scenario: two eligible on my side of the field.  I'm OLB.  We're in Cover 3, I have flats, corner has deep outside, middle linebackers have middle of the field, safety high and deep.  Outside man runs a fade, inside man runs a curl.  I split the difference with priority on the deeper route while bumping the inside man.  Questions I have: when is the corner going to pick up the outside man running hard on the outside?  Does he expect me to drop underneath the route if turns out it's a curl?  How long do I have to keep backpedaling hard if it's a fade before I know the corner will pick him up?  What kind of cushion does he usually give?  When will the middle linebackers drop off of their initial read to cover the inside guy?

    And I discovered that everything changes when the big lights go on.  You find out that guys will do things differently than they did in practice, miss some assignments, get places faster when the adrenaline's pumping...

    Continuity is excellent when you can get it.  So is predictability with regards to knowing the guy will simply do his assignment (like Sanders).

    If Chung was ready, I think he'd already be playing more often (and he still might).  If Merriweather was ready to be leader of the secondary and Chung was ready to step in and play, then I think Sanders would already be gone (and probably to Denver or Kansas City because they understand his value more).  You say you trust the people making decisions, and they've decided that Chung hasn't earned playing time yet.  I think that says everything I need to know right now.

    We'll see if that changes tomorrow (although I don't think it will because Graham is slower and can be covered by a linebacker, so I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see much of McGowan).

    And Harrison had 30 sacks and 30 interceptions.  McGowan has one forced fumble and one fumble recovered.  No interceptions.  One hit on the quarterback....
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from mosseffect43. Show mosseffect43's posts

    Re: trade deadline

    In Response to Re: trade deadline:
    [QUOTE]If the Pats do anything at all it will probably be a minor deal.  You just don't see too many big trades in the NFL.
    Posted by siestafiesta[/QUOTE] this is true,but this year could be intreasting.

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/10/10/trade-deadline-coming-in-10-days/
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from MaritimePatsFan. Show MaritimePatsFan's posts

    Re: trade deadline

    In Response to Re: trade deadline:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: trade deadline : First, I hope I don't offend you... I tend to come off as more polite when talking in person - a lot of communication is body language, which is lost on these boards.  Second, I try to keep my responses general so that they apply to everyone, but I was mostly responding to you.  A lot of the posts on here are so confusing that I can't configure a response.  Your point seems straightforward enough, so I'll try to put something together. My main point is that I don't think OTHER teams think highly enough of Sanders to trade something significant for him.  Also, if they're not going to trade something significant for him, then I think he has more value continuing to do his job than anything you could get in return. Also, from my experience, playing zone is a COMPLETELY different mentality than playing man-to-man.  The footwork is different, the reads are more complicated, and the importance of continuity among the personnel playing the zones is essential.  You can't put a price on the fact that Sanders has been our starting safety for the past two years, which means everybody around him knows exactly what he's doing and when.  I remember when I was playing OLB and I had flats zone and it was like starting from day one in training camp with regards to knowing whether guys around me would pick up certain routes or not and when.  Same goes for knowing if the middle linebackers were going to pick the guy up.  Naturally, priority goes to the deepest route, but we've already seen McGowan get burned against the Jets, while Guyton got lured into following the tight end on an out while McGahee snuck over the middle to score a touchdown during the Ravens game. To illustrate my point, Scenario: two eligible on my side of the field.  I'm OLB.  We're in Cover 3, I have flats, corner has deep outside, middle linebackers have middle of the field, safety high and deep.  Outside man runs a fade, inside man runs a curl.  I split the difference with priority on the deeper route while bumping the inside man.  Questions I have: when is the corner going to pick up the outside man running hard on the outside?  Does he expect me to drop underneath the route if turns out it's a curl?  How long do I have to keep backpedaling hard if it's a fade before I know the corner will pick him up?  What kind of cushion does he usually give?  When will the middle linebackers drop off of their initial read to cover the inside guy? And I discovered that everything changes when the big lights go on.  You find out that guys will do things differently than they did in practice, miss some assignments, get places faster when the adrenaline's pumping... Continuity is excellent when you can get it.  So is predictability with regards to knowing the guy will simply do his assignment (like Sanders). If Chung was ready, I think he'd already be playing more often (and he still might).  If Merriweather was ready to be leader of the secondary and Chung was ready to step in and play, then I think Sanders would already be gone (and probably to Denver or Kansas City because they understand his value more).  You say you trust the people making decisions, and they've decided that Chung hasn't earned playing time yet.  I think that says everything I need to know right now. We'll see if that changes tomorrow (although I don't think it will because Graham is slower and can be covered by a linebacker, so I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see much of McGowan). And Harrison had 30 sacks and 30 interceptions.  McGowan has one forced fumble and one fumble recovered.  No interceptions.  One hit on the quarterback....
    Posted by NickC1188[/QUOTE]

    Nick, I hope I don't offend you either, I actually tend to come off as an a55 hole in person. That's what happens when you grow up in a house with 6 males and 1 female. Anyway, to start off I think your stats comparison between McGowan and Harrison is a bit off. You took Rodney's 15 year career stats and McGowan's 1 season and preseason with the Patriots stats. A little biased. But ok I agree with you McGowan's full career stats are not that impressive partly because he has been oft injured. This is a big downside to his game that I have thought about but have failed to mention. His play so far unlike his stats are impressive though. He does seem to be involved in a lot of plays on the defensive side of the ball so far you must admit. I agree Chung is not there yet in terms of experience and knowledge of the system, but the talking heads all seem to agree he has the physical tools to be a good Safety. Both as a in the box helping on run support and as a coverage guy. Also to comment on your view of Sanders knowing where guys should be and when guys should break off on zone coverages, you said yourself he is the only constant in the secondary over the last two years. With that line of thinking McGowan has as much playing time with our two starting corners, Bodden and Springs who are both brand new to the Patriots system this year...

    I guess all I am trying to say is I think that after this season if McGowan plays like he has been all year I think he gets the nod over Sanders because I believe his potential play making ability, his game changing type play is better than Sanders'. At that point I believe Merriweather will be known to other teams' fans as being a playmaker. And hopefully Chung will make that jump from rookie to sophmore that is so important. It seems like a lot has to fall into place for this to happen but it is all very realistic, no? So, if that happens we have two very good safeties in Merriweather, who assumes Sanders' role as leader of secondary and centerfielder, McGowan as the run stuffer and playmaker closer to the line of scrimmage and hopefully one second year safety looking to make that jump into the starting rotation in Chung. So where does that leave Sanders? I believe and this is just one guy's opinion, is outside looking in. So I think a move to KC or Denver like I stated in my original post is a possibility. The reason that I kinda started out as saying by trade deadline is because I was looking probably way too far into the future.

    Sanders 59 games - 5 INT - 1 FF - 3 FR

    McGowan 29 games - 2 INT - 2 FF - 2 FR
     
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from NickC1188. Show NickC1188's posts

    Re: trade deadline

    comments withdrawn.  Evidently I was wrong.

    Touche.

    We'll see soon enough what Chung can do.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Payment84. Show Payment84's posts

    Re: trade deadline

    Way to take it like a man Nick!  =)  I logged on this morning to see how this thread would pan out after the scratch of Sanders...
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from MaritimePatsFan. Show MaritimePatsFan's posts

    Re: trade deadline

    Nick I do not think you are wrong for voicing your opinion. I mean that's what this is right a place to talk about opinions and yes sometimes stats and what not but more so your opinion. In this case your opinion differed from mine slightly I think.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: trade deadline

    James Sanders for Jabar Gaffeny, straight up.

    I would do that trade. Both teams sacrifice some depth, but both teams get a solid player where they are thin.

    I doubt it would happen though.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from yogi3333. Show yogi3333's posts

    Re: trade deadline

    Trade Joey Galloway and Ron Brace to Dallas for a 2nd or 3rd round pick.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from mosseffect43. Show mosseffect43's posts

    Re: trade deadline

    In Response to Re: trade deadline:
    [QUOTE]James Sanders for Jabar Gaffeny, straight up. I would do that trade. Both teams sacrifice some depth, but both teams get a solid player where they are thin. I doubt it would happen though.
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE] i wouldnt mind seeing gaffney back.here are some more possibilities.

    http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=378
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from mrbungle. Show mrbungle's posts

    Re: trade deadline

    Our #1 pick to St Louis for Jackson. 

    Ask Buffalo about their RB named Jackson and why not T Owens? He's not opened his mouth this year and maybe with Moss around, he'd realize the upside to playing for BB and getting a ring. The guy is a beast and if we get either back named Jackson, throw in Maroney and Galloway.

    Dick Jauren is probably out too. BB admires him and I do too. Like to see him in a role for the Patriots. Good guy too.

    It's easy to type this stuff out like we know it all but, chances are not much will happen. Still, I think the above is do-able all the same. Think about Stephen Jackson and Owens in the lineup. I know it would please Brady and he needs help. Now.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from steve1581. Show steve1581's posts

    Re: trade deadline

    In Response to Re: trade deadline:
    [QUOTE]Trade Joey Galloway and Ron Brace to Dallas for a 2nd or 3rd round pick.
    Posted by yogi3333[/QUOTE]


    that is hilarious

    Im glad you aren't in the pats front office lol 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from mosseffect43. Show mosseffect43's posts

    Re: trade deadline

    In Response to Re: trade deadline:
    [QUOTE]Our #1 pick to St Louis for Jackson.  Ask Buffalo about their RB named Jackson and why not T Owens? He's not opened his mouth this year and maybe with Moss around, he'd realize the upside to playing for BB and getting a ring. The guy is a beast and if we get either back named Jackson, throw in Maroney and Galloway. Dick Jauren is probably out too. BB admires him and I do too. Like to see him in a role for the Patriots. Good guy too. It's easy to type this stuff out like we know it all but, chances are not much will happen. Still, I think the above is do-able all the same. Think about Stephen Jackson and Owens in the lineup. I know it would please Brady and he needs help. Now.
    Posted by mrbungle[/QUOTE] owens sounds intreasting,but the bills are saying no for now.

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/10/12/to-not-on-the-block/


     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from steve1581. Show steve1581's posts

    Re: trade deadline

    In Response to Re: trade deadline:
    [QUOTE]Our #1 pick to St Louis for Jackson.  Ask Buffalo about their RB named Jackson and why not T Owens? He's not opened his mouth this year and maybe with Moss around, he'd realize the upside to playing for BB and getting a ring. The guy is a beast and if we get either back named Jackson, throw in Maroney and Galloway. Dick Jauren is probably out too. BB admires him and I do too. Like to see him in a role for the Patriots. Good guy too. It's easy to type this stuff out like we know it all but, chances are not much will happen. Still, I think the above is do-able all the same. Think about Stephen Jackson and Owens in the lineup. I know it would please Brady and he needs help. Now.
    Posted by mrbungle[/QUOTE]


    maybe in dreamland.

    I still wouldnt want T.O. He is still a problem and has proven 3 times that he is a problem. 

    Steven Jackson would be too costly. He is the franchise  and they are working to add parts around him so that he can be effective. He would likely cost 2 number ones and it really just isn't feasible

    Im excited about Law firm. He will get his chance and I do like the idea of getting a guy like Kampman. He is effective in a 4-3. The pats have shifted to a 4-3 while GB has shifted to a 3-4 which he is not effective in. I think he would certainly help. The burgess move is a bust. Its unfortunate but no one is perfect. I definitely still put my trust in bill 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: trade deadline is oct 20

    T.O. with Moss and Welker = Easy wins. 



     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Gulo. Show Gulo's posts

    Re: trade deadline

    In Response to Re: trade deadline:
    [QUOTE]the reason McGowean is getting the nod over Chung is experience and size.... the pactriots have been giving everyone that nickle look but if you watch closely McGowan is playing weakside linebacker He is essentially Guyton replacement and guyton has moved into Mayo Strong side backer role every one keeps talking about 3:4-4:3 BS the nickle they are playing right now is essentially a 3:4 with a ss/ILB hybrid playing weakside 9 yards off the ball and an OLB with his hand down Look at the tape both Burgess and Banta Cain had there hand down in a 3 tech then they got up and covered the flat McGowan has been playing ILB He did not satrt over Sander he started with him Chung cannot do what McGowan does McGowan is a special FS he is cut from the same mold as Rodney MATTER of FACT i think he is BETTER than Rodney I said it before how they were able to get this guy baffles me
    Posted by tagandtrade[/QUOTE]


    McGowan better than Rodney? YOU ARE AN IDIOT

    plus, if they are playing McGowan as a OLB/S in a 4-3, its more of a 4-4, because 4 d-linemen remain there

    Sanders is a good leader, but hes not a playmaker.  McGowan is a good special teams player, and he is incredibe versatile. . . but he is injury prone, thats why the bears let him go
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from mosseffect43. Show mosseffect43's posts

    Re: trade deadline is oct 20

    In Response to Re: trade deadline is oct 20:
    [QUOTE]T.O. with Moss and Welker = Easy wins. 
    Posted by 49Patriots[/QUOTE] it would be intreasting.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: trade deadline is oct 20

    Personally, I hate TO and what he represents, but I love when the Patriots win more than I hate TO's act.  It pains me to say this, but go out and get TO.  What would defenses do?  You would no longer be able to double Moss AND you still have Welker/Edelman underneath......could make the passing offense virtually unstoppable.......

    How does Buffalo not accept a 4th round pick for him?  The team is done and TO is gone at the end of the year, they need to salvage as much of a return as they can.....
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from gatech34. Show gatech34's posts

    Re: trade deadline is oct 20

    I would like to see the Pats trade Adalius Thomas for Patrick Willis. I also would like Sammy Morris and Lawrense Maroney for Jamel Lewis. We need a power back.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: trade deadline is oct 20

    In Response to Re: trade deadline is oct 20:
    [QUOTE]I would like to see the Pats trade Adalius Thomas for Patrick Willis. I also would like Sammy Morris and Lawrense Maroney for Jamel Lewis. We need a power back.
    Posted by gatech34[/QUOTE]

    0% chance that SF trades Willis to NE for anyone other than Brady........
     
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