Trading into 2010 for Suh

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from tagandtrade. Show tagandtrade's posts

    Trading into 2010 for Suh

    Question...?

    If Locker goes one will the Rams take (2) first round picks

    2010 1st PLUS 2011 pick from Oakland so we can jump up and get Suh

    I think we forego signing Fork put Suh on the End and trade back into the First for a OLB/DE

    If we give up two seconds and a fifth to jump into the top 20 we can still get

    Jerry Hughes from TCU

    Def; of the future

    Suh, (Brace/Prior) Warren

    Hughes, Guyton, Mayo, Crabel

    Butler, Chung, Meriwheather, Wilhite/Wheatley

    Top reserves Wright (DE) /Titus Adams (NT) /Banta Cain (DE, OLB) /McKenzie (ILB) James Sanders (SS/FS)

    To be determined

    Springs CUT
    Thomas CUT
    Wilfork (Tag and Trade)

    Try to retain
    Bodden (starter)
    McGowan (SS)

    Optional retentions

    Light - I would let him walk and put his moneu into BOLDIN to #1 play 3rd WR #2 Replace Randy in 2011

    Wilfork - Get Picks like SUH and package him for more picks in 2011 first round If they tag him... Work out a sign and Trade with Carolina for Peppers it is basically and equal contract

    Levoir/Vollmer are the Tackles of the future

    Say good buy to Neal and pay Mankins

    Restructure Brady and Welker with long term extentions that are CAP friendly





     
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: Trading into 2010 for Suh

    Locker has already stated that he's coming back to Washington.

    While I'd love to have Suh, I don't think the 2010 1st rounder (most likely between 20-32) and the unknown position of the 2011 1st rounder would be enough to get it done.

    I think if they trade up, it would only be into the mid-teens or so to get a guy like Rolando McClain (LB, Alabama) or Terrence Cody (DT, Alabama and a replacement for Vince if they don't look to bring him back).  If they stand pat (no pun intended) I think Hughes or a guy like Greg Romeus (DE/OLB Pitt) would be an ideal pass rushing fit.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boston-kyle. Show Boston-kyle's posts

    Re: Trading into 2010 for Suh

    Nuh is going #1 overall. Patriots will never trade into the top 10. Trading into the teens is possibilty with three second round picks to help bundle.

    I like trading for McClain, Mays, Dez Bryant and Kindle.

    Patriots should know by now that stock piling picks is great but you logistically cant draft 10+ players every year.

    2nd round possibilities the patriots will definately take a hard look at:
    -Carlos Dunlap (loads of talent but falls in the draft just like other problem childs do on the big day)
    -Branden Spikes (falls into the 2nd round just like Laurintis and Mauluga did in 2008)

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from tagandtrade. Show tagandtrade's posts

    Re: Trading into 2010 for Suh

    all good points

    What are your priority picks?

    I slate them as follows;

    1) PASS Rushing DE or Hybrid
    1A) 3rd receiver via Trade or first round
    2 (A & B) trade back into to 25
    2)Running back - even though Maroney has taken of his skirt and i love that BB is in his head... BB Clearly found out how to MOTIVATE him, So i think he is a KEEPER now. BUT i would like a Tweener ALA Felix Jones in Dallas... A special guy who is lean and mean to replace Faulk in 2011...

    3 to 7 depth @ LB, Depth @ OL, Depth @ DB

    What do guys think about retention

    Who should we keep?

    Who should we CUT?

    Who should we resign?

    Who should we Trade?

    Thanks
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsFanGermany. Show PatsFanGermany's posts

    Re: Trading into 2010 for Suh

    Even if the Pats had the #1 overall pick, I'm almost positive that BB would trade out.  That's just his MO. 

    Those teams who are in the top 5 are usually there year after year.  The price of those top 5 players handycaps them for years and what happens is they can't afford other players and can't get out of the top 5.  It's pretty sad, but the best pick in the first starts at about #12-15. 

    BB won't want anything to do with a pick that high until the CBA changes in 2011.  That ius why he made that trade with Oakland instead of one in 2010.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsFanGermany. Show PatsFanGermany's posts

    Re: Trading into 2010 for Suh

    Another thing is that BB likes his players with big frames.

    Look at-

    DE Hardy  6'5" 275
    DE Wooten  6'7" 280
    DE Sapp  6'5" 260

    I think Hardy will be gone by the time we pick, but he might look hard at Sapp.  Especially if he runs a 4.60 40.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from dwhite1220. Show dwhite1220's posts

    Re: Trading into 2010 for Suh

    Keep Wilfork,cut Thomas,Springs and let Jr Seau go.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Trading into 2010 for Suh

    But, the Pats have shown a disdain for paying a lot of money for an unproven rookie, haven't they?  Will they bust the bank in the uncapped 2010 year? 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: Trading into 2010 for Suh

    In Response to Re: Trading into 2010 for Suh:


    all good points What are your priority picks?

    I slate them as follows;

    1) PASS Rushing DE or Hybrid

    I agree, pass rush (DL or OLB) should be priority 1-10  in my opinion.  I believe the only thing holding back this defense is a consistent pass rush, which would take a ton of pressure off the secondary. 

    1A) 3rd receiver via Trade or first round

    I agree here too.  Brandon Tate while explosive is extremely raw and I think Edelman who has been decent in spurts, is a low ceiling guy and not an outside receiver.  I'd love to see them upgade the outside receiver position opposite Randy and I think a lot will stem from how the personnel folks view Brandon Tate long term.   Golden Tate (ND), Eric Decker (MINN) are a couple of guys that interest me.
     
    2 (A & B) trade back into to 25
    2)Running back - even though Maroney has taken of his skirt and i love that BB is in his head... BB Clearly found out how to MOTIVATE him, So i think he is a KEEPER now. BUT i would like a Tweener ALA Felix Jones in Dallas... A special guy who is lean and mean to replace Faulk in 2011...

    I think the late development of Maroney may change how they view the RB position, though I'd still like to get some youth in there, possibly as early as the second round.  Jonathan Dwyer (GT) Ryan Matthews (Fresno St), Toby Gerhart (Stanford), Charles Scott and Keiland Williams (LSU), LeGarrette Blount (Oregon), Dexter McCluster (Ole Miss), Noel Devine (WV, assuming he declares) and maybe Jahvid Best (Cal, if he declares and slips to to concerns over concussions) are a couple of players that could be available when they draft and would interest me.  Devine and McCluster in particular could be potential Faulk replacements though I think Faulk will be brought back.  I'd still love to see a Dillon type back brought in, someone who can hammer the ball between the tackles and wear down defenses, that'd be a good compliment to Maroney.

    3 to 7 depth @ LB, Depth @ OL, Depth @ DB
     
    Depth at any position of need, yes.


    Thanks
    Posted by tagandtrade

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ewhite1065. Show ewhite1065's posts

    Re: Trading into 2010 for Suh

    In Response to Trading into 2010 for Suh:
    Question...? If Locker goes one will the Rams take (2) first round picks 2010 1st PLUS 2011 pick from Oakland so we can jump up and get Suh I think we forego signing Fork put Suh on the End and trade back into the First for a OLB/DE If we give up two seconds and a fifth to jump into the top 20 we can still get Jerry Hughes from TCU Def; of the future Suh, (Brace/Prior) Warren Hughes, Guyton, Mayo, Crabel Butler, Chung, Meriwheather, Wilhite/Wheatley Top reserves Wright (DE) /Titus Adams (NT) /Banta Cain (DE, OLB) /McKenzie (ILB) James Sanders (SS/FS) To be determined Springs CUT Thomas CUT Wilfork (Tag and Trade) Try to retain Bodden (starter) McGowan (SS) Optional retentions Light - I would let him walk and put his moneu into BOLDIN to #1 play 3rd WR #2 Replace Randy in 2011 Wilfork - Get Picks like SUH and package him for more picks in 2011 first round If they tag him... Work out a sign and Trade with Carolina for Peppers it is basically and equal contract Levoir/Vollmer are the Tackles of the future Say good buy to Neal and pay Mankins Restructure Brady and Welker with long term extentions that are CAP friendly  
    Posted by tagandtrade


    I'm a huge Suh guy and we could trade up for him but it will take more than that. We would have to kick in at least another 2nd rounder and while I'd do it that doesn't necessarily mean that Belichick would. He hasn't shown any interest in moving up in the past and this would be a major sacrifice to move up.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from pyegian. Show pyegian's posts

    Re: Trading into 2010 for Suh

    So to you, Suh is worth as much as Wilfork, a 2010 first round pick, and a 2011 top 5 pick COMBINED?  Because that's pretty much the tradeoff, considering the contracts will be similar.  We could just resign Wilfork and make those two incredibly valuable picks and be a much better team.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: Trading into 2010 for Suh

    It seems every year somebody wants the Pats or think the Pats should move up into the top 5 for a player.  This is at an incredible expense in two ways, draft picks and salary.  It just doesn't make sense to do this.  Especially when we might have a top ten pick next year from Oakland.  Be patient.

    Suh is an absolute stud btw.   
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from tagandtrade. Show tagandtrade's posts

    Re: Trading into 2010 for Suh

    Pyg,

    not quite what i had in mind

    what i meant was this

    Tag Fork and sign him to an extention with intentions of trading him to another team for a piece i.e. Peppers or a Pick in the first and second round of 2011

    Take the Pick we got for Seymour and our pick this year and trade that to one of the top two teams for the rights to big on Suh

    Why is this better than signing Fork

    1) We get two picks for Fork
    2) We get a BEAST in SUH who is Better than Seymour walking in YEAR one... he had 12 tackles and 4.5 sacks last week a lone
    3) We use some pieces that we collect
    i.e. remaining second round picks in 2010 and the two picks collected from the Fork trade and trade up to Get Sap
    4) Give Thomas's money to a guy like BOLDIN or TO for that matter and make another RUN.... Randy is done next year so we have one more run in us
    5) restructure Brady, and Faulk, cut taylor and extend Mayo
    6) break the bank on some one with all the money comming off the books and some big payroll cuts ala Springs, Thomas and Taylor and give it to????

    The patriots could rebuild there whole team this year

    Who do we have to keep?

    Thanks
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from tagandtrade. Show tagandtrade's posts

    Re: Trading into 2010 for Suh

    moving forward let assume there is no cap pertaining to next year...

    btw-

    jumping up to 5 would allow us to sign SUH to a 6 year deal so at least we would get a lengthy contract at a lower cost than the bext FA available in that position

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from angel3781. Show angel3781's posts

    Re: Trading into 2010 for Suh

    Ok, I just checked out the NFL draft value trade chart.  According to the chart, the #1 pick is worth 3,000 points.  In order to acquire that pick, we would have to trade our first rounder in this upcoming draft (likely the 25th pick) which is worth 720 points, along with the first rounder that we will be getting from the Raiders (likely the the 5th pick) which is worth 1,700 points.  In addition, we would also have to include the second rounder that we will recieve from the Titans (likely the 42nd pick) which is worth 480 points, plus include our 3rd round pick from next years' draft (since we don't currently have one) which is worth approximately 116 points.  So lets recap, the #1 pick = 3,000 points vs. 3,016 for all of the picks listed above, plus we have to pay this guy a huge, huge contract condidering that he'd be the #1 pick!  So I ask you, how likely is any of this likely to happen?
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from tagandtrade. Show tagandtrade's posts

    Re: Trading into 2010 for Suh

    mbea

    Ryan Mathews is a bull - 5'10" 220 he is built just like J Stewart in Carolina would that aquisition mean the future for Maroney is to come in light 205 vs. heavy 219 and convert him to Faulks replacement?

    Or would you find both our future back and Faulks replacement in this draft?

    Cin City is stacked at RB with LJ and Benson maybe we can scoop up Perry and Leonard... Perry would be a great 3rd down back if he could stay healthy and Leonard is too busy trying too hard for extra yards he needs to stop trying to live up to the hype in run like he did @ Rutgers

    Who else is out there in the middle of the pack that would be worth the coin @ either 3rd DRB or as a between the tackles RB

    Also

    do we move forward with Kaczur/Vollmer and Le Voir and let Light go?

    do we move forward with Connelly/Orhnburger at guard sign Mankins and let NEal go?

    we have 25 guys comming off the books who has to stay?
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from tagandtrade. Show tagandtrade's posts

    Re: Trading into 2010 for Suh

    angl,

    would you agree that the 2011 1st round pick is worth twice as much if a rookie cap for 2011 was agreed on?

    that pick is high value high reward low budget IF ownership gets its way

    meaning it may be worth a lot more by Draft time
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Trading into 2010 for Suh

    I don't think the Pats will draft a Pass-rusher with their first pick next year because they still have Shawn Crable. We don't know what Shawn can do, but if Belichick likes him enough to keep him for two years without playing a game he must have something we don't know about. 

    On getting Brady a 3rd option, if Charlie Weis is willing to come back, I would love to see Golden Tate. Weis got as much as he could out of Tate, why not see what he can do for him in the NFL? 

    RBs, the only RB I would want the Pats to get is a replacement for K-Faulk. As much as I love Kev, he is getting up there in age. We need a new, faster, quicker 3rd down back. 

    On depth, you can never have enough pitchers, LBs, or Centers/PFs.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from angel3781. Show angel3781's posts

    Re: Trading into 2010 for Suh

    Posts: 183
    First: 12/19/2008
    Last: 12/23/2009
    angl,

    would you agree that the 2011 1st round pick is worth twice as much if a rookie cap for 2011 was agreed on?

    that pick is high value high reward low budget IF ownership gets its way

    meaning it may be worth a lot more by Draft time
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Actually I totally disagree because twice as much is a huge stretch first and foremost.  Then you have to consider that two of those picks (the Raider's 2011 first rounder & our own 2011 third rounder) are deferred picks which loses value because of the risk of not knowing exactly what you'll be getting, in addition to having to wait which not many people like doing.  This is why the Pats frequently deal picks into the future with the idea that the future pick will be higher than the one being delt.  The fact that the Pats routinely are able to make these kind of trades should give you an idea as to how the other teams in the league feel about making those trades.

    That said, I do feel that a 2011 first rounder carries higher value which goes to my point of why would the Pats consider dealing that along with the 25th, 42nd, & a future third round pick just to move up 5 spots.  I know that what I just said is somewhat flaswed in that it's not exactly 5 spots because we are discussing picks ffrom two entirely different drafts, but I'm sure you get the intent nevertheless.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from tagandtrade. Show tagandtrade's posts

    Re: Trading into 2010 for Suh

    true that 1700 probably becomes 2300
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Trading into 2010 for Suh

         The Pats are not going to trade up for Suh, and certainly are not going to give up the #1 in 2011 that the got from the Raiders. Without a rookie salary cap in place, the price tag for Suh will be huge. True, Suh is a great college DT...but how many great, can't miss college DTs have been busts? Remember Big Daddy Wilkerson, Ryan Sims, Wendell Bryant, Dewayne Robertson, Johnathan Sullivan, Jimmy Kennedy, and, most recently, Glenn Dorsey?

         At Suh's price, he's too much of a gamble. Keep in mind that the Pats could have traded Seymour for Oakland's #1 this year, but insisted on Oakland's #1 in 2011 instead...in hopes that a rookie salary cap would be in place by then.    
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Spetznaz24. Show Spetznaz24's posts

    Re: Trading into 2010 for Suh

    Patriots do not want to give a $60mil contract to a rookie. They need to sign Wilfork this offseason, so that will be the #1 priority.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw. Show Philskiw's posts

    Re: Trading into 2010 for Suh

    the 2011 pick will have a rookie salary structure. *most likely* that pick could be a top 5 pick. It will have great value. I want to keep Wilfork, let the Rams have Suh. Suh will get paid a lot of money, its the last big paycheck for rookies. Everyone will be coming out. Our 3 second rounders will be good talent and good value. We should stay right where we are on picks and trades.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from ewhite1065. Show ewhite1065's posts

    Re: Trading into 2010 for Suh

    I guess I'll be the one to say that I don't care about how much money we have to pay. Contracts can be structured to be team/cap friendly as long as they don't hand out too much guaranteed cash. It's not coming out of my pocket and I'd rather take a shot on somebody like Suh than going out and signing 2 more Burgess', an Adalius Thomas and a few Jarvis Greens. I don't know how Suh ranks with the Patriots Brass, they may not even think that much of him But if they do I think they should take a shot. The bottom line is that 1 team is going to have to pay him. Thomas was a bust but at a certain point we have to take risks. If we got Suh and he turned out to be a double digit sack guy and good against the run nobody will ever remember how much we paid and they will be saying we need to resign him no matter what it costs come contract time. At some point there is going to have to be risk involved in what you do or there will be no reward and we will have a team full nice bench players.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from MaritimePatsFan. Show MaritimePatsFan's posts

    Re: Trading into 2010 for Suh

    That draft value chart itself is flawed angel. If it is the chart I think you are using, the one Jimmy Johnson made up while he was in Dallas, it is 20 years old and out of date. It doesn't take into account the inflated prices teams have to pay for the top 7 picks. Teams do not value those picks the way they used to. Teams nowadays seem to not be able to trade out of the top 7 picks. I remember hearing Rich Eisen talking about it, saying he was speaking with a GM with a 15-20 pick who was approached by a top 5 GM about a trade. The 15-20 GM said "Yeah ok, what are you going to give me for trading up?" Meaning he was expecting more compensation for trading into the top 5.

    Tag, as for who I'd like to see go:

    Moved:
    Kazcur, trade for whatever you can get, 4th maybe a 5th rounder?
    Taylor, we don't need 30 plus RBs except maybe Faulk.
    Morris, see Taylor's explanation.
    Maroney, he has run hard for a couple of weeks, don't get fooled, we have seen this before.
    Thomas, costs too much money next year, thing is can't cut him cuz I don't want him to end up a Jet. Trade him into the NFC even, maybe a 3rd rounder?
    Springs, costs too much to only play 1/4 of the season. Oh and he is old too.
    Wilfork, The Big One. your handle says it all. Tag and Trade this guy. He is a run stopper. All the top teams in the league throw the ball and stop the pass. We need a pass rushing NT who can stop the run, not the other way around.
     
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