Trash Talk: Weighing garbage time

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Asher77. Show Asher77's posts

    Trash Talk: Weighing garbage time

    This was a headline for an article on Brady in ESPN. Is there anybody who is an insider who can comment on this or maybe copy it here. To me this is such a joke, to lend the idea that Brady is running up the score and his numbers ( How did it get to garbage time without him putting up the numbers? ) and to then make it for insiders so without spending the $ you are left open to your own speculation. Just crap


    Trash Talk

    Tom Brady has put up some big numbers. But has his impact been inflated by his performance in garbage time?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from freediro. Show freediro's posts

    Re: Trash Talk: Weighing garbage time

    What? we go halves and quarters in games without scoring that many points. We just get on a roll to score enough points to win the game. The Patriots are paid to stop playing football and the other team is paid to stop them for 60 minutes. People should just shut up and deal with losing.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Asher77. Show Asher77's posts

    Re: Trash Talk: Weighing garbage time

    Bump
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from p-mike. Show p-mike's posts

    Re: Trash Talk: Weighing garbage time

    They've got this exactly backwards.

    You get to "garbage time" because Brady and the offense put teams away early.

    The reason the Pats defense is at the bottom of the league in yardage allowed -- a point "pundits" love to bring up -- is because they play so much prevent, because they're so far ahead all the time . . .   something that is conveniently never mentioned.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: Trash Talk: Weighing garbage time

    I don't recall Brady putting up any numbers in garbage time this season.  Most of his stats have come fast and furious.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Asher77. Show Asher77's posts

    Re: Trash Talk: Weighing garbage time

    I agree, only the most recent games have been blowouts and we only scored 3 points after halftime in CHI. My big issue with this article ( that i wasnt able to read ) is that it gives the average fan like me the idea that Brady has been racking up garbage time stats and therefore not as viable a MVP canidate or like was said in 2007 we are again running up the score. This is just way off base and to put an article like this with that headline on ESPN with there non insider viewership just seems wrong. If you want to trash Brady like that let us read the facts you reference, the article most likely points out that he is not running it up. Alas, I and a million others will never know.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188. Show Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188's posts

    Re: Trash Talk: Weighing garbage time

    In Response to Trash Talk: Weighing garbage time:
    This was a headline for an article on Brady in ESPN. Is there anybody who is an insider who can comment on this or maybe copy it here. To me this is such a joke, to lend the idea that Brady is running up the score and his numbers ( How did it get to garbage time without him putting up the numbers? ) and to then make it for insiders so without spending the $ you are left open to your own speculation. Just crap Trash Talk Tom Brady has put up some big numbers. But has his impact been inflated by his performance in garbage time?
    Posted by Asher77


    You could say the same thing about the yardage against the Patriots defense

    They give up yardage as other teams commit clock suicide trying to catch up.  The Bengals gained all kinds of yardage after they were out of the game.  The Steelers did the same thing down 23-3.

    Not worried.  The most important thing to me is that the Pats have gone five games without committing a turnover
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Stupideeediot. Show Stupideeediot's posts

    Re: Trash Talk: Weighing garbage time

    In Response to Re: Trash Talk: Weighing garbage time:
    In Response to Trash Talk: Weighing garbage time : You could say the same thing about the yardage against the Patriots defense They give up yardage as other teams commit clock suicide trying to catch up.  The Bengals gained all kinds of yardage after they were out of the game.  The Steelers did the same thing down 23-3. Not worried.  The most important thing to me is that the Pats have gone five games without committing a turnover
    Posted by Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188


    I wouldnt' call it clock suicide... I'd call it down suicide. When time's running out and they're getting blown out teams tend to keep throwing deep even if there's nothing there hoping they'll catch the Pats sleeping.

    ESPN should do an article on how disrepectful it is for teams to just keep chucking the ball downfield in a blowout when the leading team (the Pats) have already stopped passing on offense.

    Apparently it's considered running up the score if the Pats dare pass in the 3rd quarter but the losing team in their blowouts is allowed to run up yardage against the Pats in garbage time?   I saw play the full 60 and embarrass the other team every time.  Points scred ARE part of the tiebreaking system and it's within their rights to play all game.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Trash Talk: Weighing garbage time

    link?

    I have insider...
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from threejak. Show threejak's posts

    Re: Trash Talk: Weighing garbage time

    The Green Eyed monster is alive and well and resides in New York....
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from mnp3a. Show mnp3a's posts

    Re: Trash Talk: Weighing garbage time

    it's part of the "statistical pieces" by football outsiders, i think Z will tell us they actually found out that "no, brady's stats are not  padded in garbage time". but it might be intesting ... maybe they compare it to the 2007 offense, i've heard them say that this year's offense is very (very) close to 2007's performance, once you adjust for some statistical factors.

    they also have an article on mark sanchez, apparently the reasons for the jets' defense early success were somewhat related to luck: they were recovering over 70% of the fumbles.

    Links in case Z (or someone else) wants to check them and update us  =)

    brady in garbage-time:
    http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/news/story?id=5914933

    and the Sanchez one:
    http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/news/story?id=5918990
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Trash Talk: Weighing garbage time

    If there's any critique people can throw at Tom Brady these days, it's that his New England Patriots are running up the score in blowouts. Over the past two weeks, dominant victories over the New York Jets and Chicago Bears have been marked by the presence of Brady in the lineup late in the game, picking up passing yards while opposing defenders are plotting their disappointed postgame tweets in their heads.

     

     

    On the other hand, DVOA suggests that Brady hasn't been saving his success for garbage time. Even before the Bears game, he comfortably led the league in DVOA and DYAR. That's not about to change after DVOA is completed upon the conclusion of the Monday night games, either; for the fourth week out of five and third week in a row, Brady had the best performance by any quarterback. And that was in a driving snowstorm.

     

     

    DVOA accounts for the game situations in which players accrue passing yards, but Brady can still get an impressive DVOA by outperforming the way an average quarterback performs in garbage time. Is that what is happening? Does he get a disproportionate amount of his yardage in the latter stages of blowouts, relative to other quarterbacks? Let's take a look at the numbers.

     

     

     

    (As a simple construct, let's consider "garbage time" to exclusively be situations in the second half. In the third quarter, quarterbacks playing with either an 18-point lead or deficit will be considered producing in garbage time. In the fourth quarter, we'll cut the figure to 14 points. We took every quarterback's play-by-play performance and noted their attempts and yardage, both inside and outside of these situations, including defensive pass interference penalties.)

     

     

    The answer is somewhere between yes and no. Of Brady's attempts, 16.6 percent have come in those "garbage time" situations; that's above the league average for starters with 200 attempts or more (12.4 percent), but there are seven quarterbacks who have a higher percentage of garbage time attempts than Brady. Leading them is Broncos quarterback Kyle Orton, who has seen 23.2 percent of his pass attempts take place in a blowout of some sort. On the flip side, just one of Tony Romo's 213 attempts (0.5 percent) came in such a situation, while Joe Flacco is at just 1.2 percent.

     

     

    If we use passing yards instead of passing attempts, it's not much different. Of Brady's passing yardage, 17.7 percent came in these blowouts, as opposed to a league average of 12.2 percent for those qualifying quarterbacks. This places Brady seventh among quarterbacks.

     

     

    In all fairness, most of the quarterbacks ahead of Brady on this list are guys playing on losing teams; the only one who plays on a winning team and sits ahead of Brady on both charts is Eli Manning. So the answer to the question really depends on what the standard is. If you're wondering whether Brady gets a disproportionate amount of blowout yardage relative to other quarterbacks, the answer is not significantly so. If the question is whether he gets more opportunities in blowouts relative to other quarterbacks in the MVP race, though? Considering Michael VickPeyton ManningAaron Rodgers or Philip Rivers have a below-average percentage of their pass attempts coming in blowouts, the answer is actually yes.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Evil2010. Show Evil2010's posts

    Re: Trash Talk: Weighing garbage time

    Towards the end of the Jets game they were running the ball directly up the middle and still scored. Is Brady supposed to take a knee for 3 and outs the entire 4th quarter and leave the defense on the field the whole time? It's just loser whining.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Trash Talk: Weighing garbage time

    I am not sure I understand his point though. 

    DVOA already accounts for "garbage time" stats ...

    The fact that Brady is having the best DVOA season by any QB ever shows that he is far better than anyone else when it isn't garbage time as well .... and running an extra 4 percent of plays in garbage time is (like others have mentioned) because he has been transcendently awesome .... not because the Pats' 31st ranked defense has been holding people down...
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from lippa. Show lippa's posts

    Re: Trash Talk: Weighing garbage time

     I say its  a pro football not pop wagner!!If you can win by 60 so be it  they make big money too play this game go for it everytime i say!!!
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Evil2010. Show Evil2010's posts

    Re: Trash Talk: Weighing garbage time

    In Response to Re: Trash Talk: Weighing garbage time:
    I am not sure I understand his point though.  DVOA already accounts for "garbage time" stats ... The fact that Brady is having the best DVOA season by any QB ever shows that he is far better than anyone else when it isn't garbage time as well .... and running an extra 4 percent of plays in garbage time is (like others have mentioned) because he has been transcendently awesome .... not because the Pats' 31st ranked defense has been holding people down...
    Posted by zbellino


    Thanks for posting the article
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from mnp3a. Show mnp3a's posts

    Re: Trash Talk: Weighing garbage time

    wow!!

    i am surprised the article is so bad!!

    basically, they are saying that brady is padding his _yardage_  "a little"
    let's see how much:

    if there are 40 pass plays on one game
    and he takes 17% "on garbage time" ----- />  that's 7 attempts
    but "the average" qb takes just 12% attempts "on garbage time"  ----- />  that's 5 attempts!!!

    Call the police!!  Brady is throwing TWO more balls than he should!! That's about 15 passing yds per game!!

    the article is irrelevant: they don't use the data to get to any interesting conclusions, nor to provide insight into other situations. also, they are not carrying their analysis in a relevant context.

    this is numbers-garbage, THEY are padding their clicks.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Trash Talk: Weighing garbage time

    In Response to Re: Trash Talk: Weighing garbage time:
    In Response to Re: Trash Talk: Weighing garbage time : Thanks for posting the article
    Posted by Evil2010


    I am always down for ripping off "the man."

    Where do they get off charging for this stuff? Insider is a rip off, and most of it is trash like this that anyone with an internet connection and knowledge of football outsiders can get....

    I only pay for it to get the in depth scouting reports from McShay, whose opinion actually matters to me ....
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from p-mike. Show p-mike's posts

    Re: Trash Talk: Weighing garbage time

    In Response to Re: Trash Talk: Weighing garbage time:
    In Response to Re: Trash Talk: Weighing garbage time : I am always down for ripping off "the man." Where do they get off charging for this stuff? Insider is a rip off, and most of it is trash like this that anyone with an internet connection and knowledge of football outsiders can get.... I only pay for it to get the in depth scouting reports from McShay, whose opinion actually matters to me ....
    Posted by zbellino


    No kidding.

    If that article is a representative example of the kind of stuff the "insiders" are getting, they can have it.

    I'll keep my money.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Evil2010. Show Evil2010's posts

    Re: Trash Talk: Weighing garbage time

    In Response to Re: Trash Talk: Weighing garbage time:
    In Response to Re: Trash Talk: Weighing garbage time : I am always down for ripping off "the man." Where do they get off charging for this stuff? Insider is a rip off, and most of it is trash like this that anyone with an internet connection and knowledge of football outsiders can get.... I only pay for it to get the in depth scouting reports from McShay, whose opinion actually matters to me ....
    Posted by zbellino


    The other half for me is that I'm not very big on spreading my credit card numbers around on the web. Besides Mickey Mouse made enough money off of my when my kid was little.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Trash Talk: Weighing garbage time

    The information is available, as well, for free at footballoutsiders.com

    http://footballoutsiders.com/quick-reads/2010/week-14-quick-reads

    Football outsiders does write some things that they allow only their own paying customers to see and, I think, some things exclusively for espn insiders that are not accessible for free.

    BTW for those that think this is ESPN/NY generated, it should be noted that Footballoutsiders was created by a self-professed Patriots homer. 

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_Outsiders#History

    That said, their analysis is statistically based so their biases are obviously limited. 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from jcour382. Show jcour382's posts

    Re: Trash Talk: Weighing garbage time

    wow showed your face... i guess there is not to much to talk about unless it is a controversial brady story....

    i wish the pats would run it up every game.... we could(see titans last year) if we could get it together completely... we have yet to do that imo...

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Asher77. Show Asher77's posts

    Re: Trash Talk: Weighing garbage time

    Thanks Z for posting the article.
     
    Such a joke, they lure you in with a big headline and I thought it would be full of numbers and analysis but nothing.
    I guess now we all know that Brady gets a "little" cushion to his stats because we run up the score more than the other MVP canidate QB's, good to know that he has the skills to generate a lead in a game, unlike these others.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Trash Talk: Weighing garbage time

    In Response to Re: Trash Talk: Weighing garbage time:
    wow showed your face... i guess there is not to much to talk about unless it is a controversial brady story.... i wish the pats would run it up every game.... we could(see titans last year) if we could get it together completely... we have yet to do that imo...
    Posted by jcour382

    Not sure what you mean.  I generally post something every day.  Today is no different.  And, I'd say that my post here is more educational than it is inflammatory.  I am simply providing information to the board about where they can locate the article for free that is cited here.  I guess there is not much to talk about so you misconstrue a post in order to post yourself. 
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Trash Talk: Weighing garbage time

    So, wouldn't; the D's yards allowed and "32nd ranked D" reflect the same premise?

    ESPN is so phony. Never in a million years would they take the time to do this for Gomer Manning.
     
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