Trolls, Whiners and Irrationals

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from danemcmenamin. Show danemcmenamin's posts

    Re: Trolls, Whiners and Irrationals

    Rusty in review you actually said nothing wrong abot Haynesworth and I admit it. Your still really bad for the forum i'll never relent on that fact!!
     
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    Re: Trolls, Whiners and Irrationals

    danemnmenamin dont tell anyone else to go away when your are the one that needs to go away! Forget for a moment how Brady got here and the main point of my post was not many coaches have the sack to trade a guy who less than a year earlier signed a monster 10-year, $103-million contract extension that was supposed to ensure he would stay in New England for the rest of his career, and keep the 6th round draft choice that BB drafted and molded. THAT, MY FRIEND, IS NOT LUCK!!! That is having the courage to hitch your wagon to your own guy!!

     
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    Re: Trolls, Whiners and Irrationals

    In Response to Re: Trolls, Whiners and Irrationals:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Trolls, Whiners and Irrationals : First, go look up what happened in Cleveland. He brought an old failing team to the playoffs in three years I believe. If he hadn't pissed off the media there in Cleveland, he would have won that Superbowl the Ravens won. Matter of fact that Ravens team was practically his. Second, take Colvin out of your statement about BB being wrong. Colvin was a heck of a OLB for the Pats that had a freak accident (dislocated hip) during a game that interrupted his career here. He certainly played upto if not beyond his contract.
    Posted by rtuinila[/QUOTE]

    I like the enthusiasm, but take it down a notch. I was just saying BB was unlucky in Cleveland with how things turned out. And unlucky pretty much defines Colvin's Patriot existence. I never said anything about Belichick being wrong, I've supported him throughout, questioning a move here and there, but always feeling fortunate to have him captaining the ship. We're on the same side of the argument, I think you misconstrued what I wrote.
     
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    Re: Trolls, Whiners and Irrationals

    I think a lot of the criticism of BB and the organization as a whole derives from too many fans buying into the media's nonsense.

    For example, after the loss to the Jets last year in the playoffs, the CHB--a sworn enemy of Bob Kraft (in the CHB's mind) going back 15 years--wrote a column pinning the "lack of a Super Bowl win in the last six years" on Kraft allegedly being cheap. That's the same false mantra--long-since debunked by guys like Tom Curran--that media db's like Felger have been pushing for years as well, ever since the Super Bowl victories stopped coming. Shaughnessy even printed an out-and-out lie in that column last January, claiming that the Pats had the third-lowest payroll in the NFL in 2010, based on numbers that: A) he either didn't understand; or B) he had no desire to understand because all he knew was that writing "third-lowest payroll in the NFL" and citing some information he found on the Internet, true or not, was the ammunition that he needed to take his usual shot at Kraft.

    When the statement turned out to be way, way off and untrue, the Globe printed a tiny retraction and didn't even use the CHB's name in the retraction. They merely stated that it was "a reporting error in an article that ran on X date."

    But even with the retraction, the damage done by the original article remains. There's a guy I work with who STILL recites the "Patriots are cheap and don't spend any money--they had the third-lowest payroll last year" line whenever we talk Pats at the office. I've told him at least five times that the article was false and that the Globe printed a retraction, but the CHB's original lie still remains imprinted on his brain. He read it in the paper, so it must be true.

    It's the same nonsense with the "Patriot Way" stuff whenever they bring in a questionable character guy like Haynesworth. Belichick and the Pats have never publicly stated that they only want a "certain type" of guy on their team. Never. The media started that crap and when the Pats started bringing in guys like Dillon and Moss, the media are the ones who started writing nonsense like "have the Pats lost their 'way'?"

    Most fans who complain about BB passing on certain players in the draft also have fallen under the "NFL draftnik/media" spin that pumps up certain players prior to the draft as being "perfect fits" for the Patriots. They also obsess over what the media sees as the team's "needs" going into the draft (as if many rookies ever have a huge impact on filling a team's needs during their first season in the NFL). Well, a sportswriter and Mel Kiper might think that, but if BB doesn't think that then the guy will not be drafted. And BB also knows that the draft is one part of a three-part offseason process that includes free agency and trades; the media and, by extension, the fans who believe the media, see the draft as the end all, be all sometimes, and that leads to the hyper-criticism of the Pats' draft haul whenever BB doesn't do what the media said he should have done on draft weekend.

    For all the complaining about how BB hasn't drafted well in recent years, a quick review of the 2009/2010 drafts shows that his draft hauls grade out as high, if not higher, than any team's draft haul over those two years. Sure, we all know the Clay Matthews saga; it's been repeated ad nauseum, but a look at the guys the Pats actually drafted over that weekend reveals some pretty good names, too. We also know that 2006 was a bad draft--but it's the NFL, and it happens to every team.

    My advice would be to tune out what most of the media say about the Pats. It's very hard for any of them to be objective, for one, and let's face it, Jim Mora was right when he went on that post-game rant in New Orleans years ago and told the media: "You don't know. You THINK you know. But you don't know."

    That's basically the story. If you're not part of what goes on behind the scenes in the NFL and if knowing football, inside and out, is not your full-time job and the source of your livelihood, then you really don't know.

    I don't claim to know, so neither should anyone else, media member or fan.
     
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    Re: Trolls, Whiners and Irrationals

    In Response to Re: Trolls, Whiners and Irrationals:
    [QUOTE]danemnmenamin dont tell anyone else to go away when your are the one that needs to go away! Forget for a moment how Brady got here and the main point of my post was not many coaches have the sack to trade a guy who less than a year earlier signed a  monster 10-year, $103-million contract extension that was supposed to ensure he would stay in New England for the rest of his career, and keep the 6th round draft choice that BB drafted and molded.   THAT, MY FRIEND, IS NOT LUCK!!! That is having the courage to hitch your wagon to your own guy!!
    Posted by Quagmire3[/QUOTE]

    This has nothing to do with the fact that he some how got the best player in the draft at pick 199. His genius is proven by putting him in but can you not admit drafting him was a major stroke of luck?

     
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    Re: Trolls, Whiners and Irrationals

    In Response to Re: Trolls, Whiners and Irrationals:
    [QUOTE]And it's a multi-year process.  Irrational = Let's bring in Asante or NNamdi to keep them away from the Jets and fill the position of LEAST need. Say what? Rational = take advantage of the emotionally charged bad decisions of other teams in the draft who overpay or overreach for positions of need and profit from it. 
    Posted by Macrawn[/QUOTE]

    You clearly didn't read my posts.  I didn't say to make a high offer.  I said to make an offer that simply drove him towards the Cowboys, 49ers, and other 10+million/yr teams

    It's called game theory.

    And I've NEVER been in favor of anything to do with Asante.  He's always one pump fake or decoy route away from giving up a touchdown with the Eagles and he's not a true #1 because he takes off of the table just as much as he brings.  But mostly I haven't forgiven him for demanding big bucks after blowing Super Bowl XLII
     
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    Re: Trolls, Whiners and Irrationals

    In Response to Re: Trolls, Whiners and Irrationals:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Trolls, Whiners and Irrationals : you were robbed? hahaha what rot-u lost
    Posted by JintsFan[/QUOTE]

    We choked

    Your D-Line and Ahmad Bradshaw (2 fumble recoveries) showed up

    The rest of your team wasn't anything special except maybe Burress

    Adalius Thomas, Asante Samuel, Logan Mankins all choked.  I'd expect Light to get beat because that's what he does against decent pass rushers.  I didn't expect to see Mankins get beat, though, and same goes for Stephen Neal to a lesser extent.

    Credit to you guys, but the Pats are still more relevant

    You had your one year and good for you, but we've had an entire decade now and only missed the playoffs twice.
     
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    Re: Trolls, Whiners and Irrationals

    In Response to Re: Trolls, Whiners and Irrationals:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Trolls, Whiners and Irrationals : This has nothing to do with the fact that he some how got the best player in the draft at pick 199. His genius is proven by putting him in but can you not admit drafting him was a major stroke of luck?
    Posted by danemcmenamin[/QUOTE]

    You make you're own luck. BB tasked his scouts to find QB's with particular traits. They came back with two names. Obviously, he picked Brady.

    From a NESN interview:

    Belichick stated plainly that Brady was not a phenomenal athlete by any stretch of the imagination, and the fact that he was not a full-time starter in his senior year at Michigan was enough to give him pause.

    "How high do you want to draft a guy who they're really trying to replace as a starter at college?" Belichick said of the mindset of looking at Brady.

    Yet Belichick said he saw enough in Brady to spend the 199th pick in the 2000 draft on the quarterback.

    "The thing with Brady was really the traits: his work ethic, his intelligence, his decision-making," Belichick said. "I think a lot of the draft process is [about] not where the player is right now, but where the player will be a year from now, or where he'll be two calendar years from now.

    If there was luck involved, its the same version every team experiences when a draft pick works out.
     
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    Re: Trolls, Whiners and Irrationals

     For example, the Patriots think that Ryan Mallet (and Kevin O'Connel) has more potential than they thought Brady had. 

    I'm sure hoping their right about Mallet.
     
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    Re: Trolls, Whiners and Irrationals

    In Response to Re: Trolls, Whiners and Irrationals:
    [QUOTE]It is well known that Brady was a Bobby Grier guy.  Regardless, who's pick it was, if there was any thought that he would have even been a competent starter, nevermind all world, you don't wait until the 6th round.  For example, the Patriots think that Ryan Mallet (and Kevin O'Connel) has more potential than they thought Brady had. 
    Posted by McCheaters[/QUOTE]

    hey mctroll.... bill be sent his scouts out specifically to look at brady...

    stick a foot in it
     
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    Re: Trolls, Whiners and Irrationals

    Read holleys book.... there are quotes about this in there.... dick rehbein was sent by BB...
     
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    Re: Trolls, Whiners and Irrationals

    In Response to Re: Trolls, Whiners and Irrationals:
    [QUOTE]It is well known that Brady was a Bobby Grier guy.  Regardless, who's pick it was, if there was any thought that he would have even been a competent starter, nevermind all world, you don't wait until the 6th round.  For example, the Patriots think that Ryan Mallet (and Kevin O'Connel) has more potential than they thought Brady had. 
    Posted by McCheaters[/QUOTE]

    Swing and a miss...

    What it actually means is that BB has a good feel for the intrinsic value of a given player. As another poster pointed out, BB had other positions he had to fill. He already had a franchise QB. Essentially there was no reason to draft Brady at all. Yet, when TB was still on the board at 199, BB couldn't pass it up.

     
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    Re: Trolls, Whiners and Irrationals

    In Response to Re: Trolls, Whiners and Irrationals:
    [QUOTE]Am i the only one still convinced had we gotten to 10-0 on the first 2 drives against the Jests in the playoff game, we would have taken the whole show to the SB? We had them on their heels, just a ill-timed INT by TB. I wil not whine this season I wil not whine this season I wil not whine this season I wil not whine this season I wil not whine this season I wil not whine this season I wil not whine this season :)
    Posted by ipot[/QUOTE]
    Are you still whining about that game? lol, just kiddingSmile

    Don't forget the botched fake punt with one minute to go in the half.
    It was only 7-3 at that point. Too many mistakes.
     
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    Re: Trolls, Whiners and Irrationals

    In Response to Re: Trolls, Whiners and Irrationals:
    [QUOTE]Am i the only one still convinced had we gotten to 10-0 on the first 2 drives against the Jests in the playoff game, we would have taken the whole show to the SB?   We had them on their heels, just a ill-timed INT by TB. I wil not whine this season I wil not whine this season I wil not whine this season I wil not whine this season I wil not whine this season I wil not whine this season I wil not whine this season :)
    Posted by ipot[/QUOTE]

    Unfortunately, you are not the only one who thinks this way.

    That team wasn't going to any superbowl with that rat crap D teeming with BB mistakes.
     
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    Re: Trolls, Whiners and Irrationals

    In Response to Re: Trolls, Whiners and Irrationals:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Trolls, Whiners and Irrationals : Swing and a miss... What it actually means is that BB has a good feel for the intrinsic value of a given player. As another poster pointed out, BB had other positions he had to fill. He already had a franchise QB. Essentially there was no reason to draft Brady at all. Yet, when TB was still on the board at 199, BB couldn't pass it up.
    Posted by SoLongHarryTruman[/QUOTE]


    He didn't have a franchise QB. He had a guy that was going to lose him his job. He took a team Carrol had not had a losing season with for 3 years and went 5-11 with Bledsoe. The whole world knew Bledsoe was a .500 QB quality.

    The scout came back and said Brady was good. So we took him on a throwaway pick and got lucky. End of story.

    Step away from the kool-aide.
     
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    Re: Trolls, Whiners and Irrationals

    In Response to Re: Trolls, Whiners and Irrationals:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Trolls, Whiners and Irrationals : You make you're own luck. BB tasked his scouts to find QB's with particular traits. They came back with two names. Obviously, he picked Brady. From a NESN interview: Belichick stated plainly that Brady was not a phenomenal athlete by any stretch of the imagination, and the fact that he was not a full-time starter in his senior year at Michigan was enough to give him pause. "How high do you want to draft a guy who they're really trying to replace as a starter at college?" Belichick said of the mindset of looking at Brady. Yet Belichick said he saw enough in Brady to spend the 199th pick in the 2000 draft on the quarterback. "The thing with Brady was really the traits: his work ethic, his intelligence, his decision-making," Belichick said. "I think a lot of the draft process is [about] not where the player is right now, but where the player will be a year from now, or where he'll be two calendar years from now. If there was luck involved, its the same version every team experiences when a draft pick works out.
    Posted by SoLongHarryTruman[/QUOTE]

    Drafting in general is a matter of luck to an extent. Late draft picks are all luck.

    Every draft pick taken is taken because for that time in the draft that guy looks like the best bet.  BB taking Brady in the 6th is no more brilliant than the scores of late round picks he took that stank. He got lucky.

    That's not a knock on him.  Anything after the 4th round is a bonus, you can't expect good players there.
     
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    Re: Trolls, Whiners and Irrationals

    In Response to Re: Trolls, Whiners and Irrationals:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Trolls, Whiners and Irrationals : He didn't have a franchise QB. He had a guy that was going to lose him his job. He took a team Carrol had not had a losing season with for 3 years and went 5-11 with Bledsoe. The whole world knew Bledsoe was a .500 QB quality. The scout came back and said Brady was good. So we took him on a throwaway pick and got lucky. End of story. Step away from the kool-aide.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    Well, someone thought he was the franchise. They were Bledsoe enough. 

    I don't drink kool-aide. I prefer Sam Adams...
     
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    Re: Trolls, Whiners and Irrationals

    Am i the only one still convinced had we gotten to 10-0 on the first 2 drives against the Jests in the playoff game, we would have taken the whole show to the SB?  

    We had them on their heels, just a ill-timed INT by TB.

    I wil not whine this season
    I wil not whine this season
    I wil not whine this season
    I wil not whine this season
    I wil not whine this season
    I wil not whine this season
    I wil not whine this season
    :)


    You forgot to tap your heels together.
     
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