TROY BROWN or WELKER as a RECEIVER?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from bubbazilla. Show bubbazilla's posts

    TROY BROWN or WELKER as a RECEIVER?

    all things being equal, if both were in their primes right now who do you take if you needed a receiver specifically for the slot with or without a randy moss? 

    for this debate, i want the focus squarely on them as RECEIVERS. obviously, if we keep stretching the argument, it is easily hands down to troy for all he did from driving the team bus, making the meals, playing defense, emergency QB/punter and so forth. he was also an original and lifelong patriot, who took discounts and even less playing time to stay here. i have always been a troy kind of guy due to his versatility and every thing else. but welker can also return punts and kickoffs, play special teams, kick field goals, punt and i am sure could even play some QB or slot defense if he had to. i would prefer either guy for they are both true pats and what belichick should always be striving for (HEART over pure talent and skill). the organization should find a way to give troy a management position on the GM side where he goes out looking for guys for us to draft. bel could use a lot of help in that area!

    due to Troy's height and build, i would give troy brown the slight edge as a receiver and overall player. everytime i see welk in that slot, i gain more appreciation for troy brown and my formerly second best pats receiver DAVID PATTEN (tough as nails)! i also liked the east boston TE kid, mr. always open JERMAINE WIGGINS. my fear with welker is that his body will start breaking down in a year or two if they keep using him as is or not finding an alternative, viable backup to give him more breathers and go about getting a solid #3. remember when troy was on pace to break all kinds of receiving records that one year and with something like 16 catches in one game, he pulled something and was never the same the rest of the year (if not for his career)? when on in his prime, there was no defense for troy brown and he could go deep also with solid hands. he also was good at laying out for catches, something welk does not often do (perhaps because he is so close to the ground). 

    wes welker is belichick's second BEST move as a GM/coach (after brady). After reconsidering, i would take welker over Moss. i now think welk, just like TROY, could be very successful with just about anyone else out there. he would just have to do more post or deep patterns to keep the defense honest but it is certainly within him to pull that off. put deion branch out there, givens or gaffney, and welk is still basically welk or as troy brown was as a RECEIVER!
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from pochen23. Show pochen23's posts

    Re: TROY BROWN OR WES WELKER?

    i would take brown simply cuz I know he could be better than what he was if he was playing with Randy Moss, and what he was was pretty darn good.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: TROY BROWN OR WES WELKER?

    In Response to TROY BROWN OR WES WELKER?:
    all things being equal, if both were in their primes right now who do you take?  i have always been a troy kind of guy due to his versatility and every thing else. but welker can kick field goals, punt and i am sure could even play some defense if he had to. i would prefer either guy for they are both true pats and what belichick should always be striving for (HEART over pure talent and skill) but due to Troy's height and build, i would give troy brown the slight edge. my fear with welker is that his body will start breaking down in a year or two if they keep using as is. remember when troy was on pace to break all kinds of receiving records that one year and with something like 16 catches in one game, he pulled something and was never the same the rest of the year (if not for his career)? when on in his prime, there was no defense for troy brown and he could go deep also.  wes welker is belichick's second BEST move as a coach (after brady). i would take welker over over Moss. i have reconsidered. i think welk, just like TROY, could be successful with just about anyone else out there. he would just have to do more post or deep patterns to keep the defense honest  but it is certainly within him to pull that off. put deion branch out there or gaffney, and welk is still welk!
    Posted by bubbazilla


    Small slot receivers have short careers. One too many concussions - and that's all she wrote. Just look at the likes of Wayne Chrebet.

    I give Welker my vote (with a huge assist from Moss). I know peeps are hatin' on Moss right now - but without Moss, Welker would not have his numbers.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from patsfaninsatx. Show patsfaninsatx's posts

    Re: TROY BROWN OR WES WELKER?

    Brown...not even a choice for me.  Troy Brown was a warrior. Not to take anything away from WW, but TBrown did everything for this team....offense, defense and special teams.  

    Welker is a beast at the slot, but i have yet to see him really have an impact on special teams and he will never play defense.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from NickC1188. Show NickC1188's posts

    Re: TROY BROWN OR WES WELKER?

    Troy Brown got his receptions record on a much less talented offense than Welker.  He did it without Moss opening things up, and with Antowain Smith as the primary runner (not even as threatening as Maroney).  Perhaps most importantly, Brady hadn't yet come into his own as a passer (and was very limited regarding the types of throws he could make).

    He also played defense, although at the rate the Pats are going, they might need Welker to play there too.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from vapatfan1. Show vapatfan1's posts

    Re: TROY BROWN OR WES WELKER?

    I take Welker but boy that's a tough call.  Both bring a lot to the table as wide recievers and punt return men.  The edge goes to Welker for his ability to get YAC and his 9.5 catches per game average. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: TROY BROWN OR WES WELKER?

    Troy Brown gets my vote.


    Patriots vs. Chargers '06 in the AFCDS, Brady throws a pick with two mintues left and the Chargers are up by 3, who got to the ball first? Number 80!
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from SmokingJoe. Show SmokingJoe's posts

    Re: TROY BROWN OR WES WELKER?

    Troy is an ALL time PAT.....  Why Compare, theyare both great!

    Wish we had both on the team now......
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from FishTaco64. Show FishTaco64's posts

    Re: TROY BROWN OR WES WELKER?

    Troy, not taking anything at all away from Wes though....but Troy Brown was one of the most clutch players to ever don a Patriots uniform...the earlier mentions playoff game against the Chargers where he stripped the defender that picked off a pass was the type of play that just defines him.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: TROY BROWN OR WES WELKER?

    In Response to TROY BROWN OR WES WELKER?:
    all things being equal, if both were in their primes right now who do you take?  i have always been a troy kind of guy due to his versatility and every thing else. but welker can also return punts and kickoffs, play special teams, kick field goals, punt and i am sure could even play some QB or slot defense if he had to. i would prefer either guy for they are both true pats and what belichick should always be striving for (HEART over pure talent and skill) but due to Troy's height and build, i would give troy brown the slight edge. everytime i see welk, i gain more appreciation for troy brown and my formerly second best pats receiver DAVID PATTEN! i also liked the east boston TE kid, mr. always open JERMAINE WIGGINS.  my fear with welker is that his body will start breaking down in a year or two if they keep using him as is or not finding an alternative to give him more breathers. remember when troy was on pace to break all kinds of receiving records that one year and with something like 16 catches in one game, he pulled something and was never the same the rest of the year (if not for his career)? when on in his prime, there was no defense for troy brown and he could go deep also.  wes welker is belichick's second BEST move as a coach (after brady). i would take welker over over Moss. i have reconsidered. i think welk, just like TROY, could be successful with just about anyone else out there. he would just have to do more post or deep patterns to keep the defense honest  but it is certainly within him to pull that off. put deion branch out there, givens or gaffney, and welk is still basically welk or as troy brown was!
    Posted by bubbazilla


    TROLL.  We know it's you Leon.  Go away.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from tompenny. Show tompenny's posts

    Re: TROY BROWN OR WES WELKER?

    In his prime with Moss? I can't take Wes. Troy is just a clutch big play machine.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from SICOFITALL. Show SICOFITALL's posts

    Re: TROY BROWN OR WES WELKER?

    Id have to go w/ Troy , u really think Welker is the same guy w/out 81, please. Listen hes very good at what he does , but how was he in Maimi? And as for 81 , the guy has performed everywhere he playd since high school! I know "wut bout oakland" 69 1008 8 tds , w/ no help at all , isnt bad at all! 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from cheeseman. Show cheeseman's posts

    Re: TROY BROWN OR WES WELKER?

    I wouldn't take anyone over Troy Brown no matter who they were. Welker is an excellent player. He is tough, crafty, and a believer. Without him this year we would be in serious trouble. He is an excellent slot receiver, and an excellent punt return man.

    Troy Brown is another entity entirely. There is a statue in his likeness at the stadium. He is the teams all time reception leader. He played nickel back on a Super Bowl winning team that is generally ranked as one of the best defensive squads ever assembled. He had three INT that year while pulling double duty. His punt return TD against PIT in the AFC title game (01) sent us to the Super Bowl. His clutch reception in that Super Bowl set up the game winning FG. He saved us against SD and sent us to the AFC title game in 06. He turned down larger offers from other teams to stay with us. His attitude and class in my opinion are the embodiment of what so many players, pundits, and fans refer to as the Patriot Way. He did his job and has three rings to his credit. We had a day in his honor.

    I am no fair weather fan...but times were very good around here when Troy was a Pat from 01 to 04. You never want something like that to end. Troy was an irreplaceable player on 3 Super Bowl winning teams. His smile and humble nature were inspiring to those fans that were lucky enough to witness his career here. 

    I wouldn't take three Welkers over one Troy. He was the #$%^&* man.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: TROY BROWN OR WES WELKER?

    In Response to Re: TROY BROWN OR WES WELKER?:
    In Response to TROY BROWN OR WES WELKER? : Small slot receivers have short careers. One too many concussions - and that's all she wrote. Just look at the likes of Wayne Chrebet. I give Welker my vote (with a huge assist from Moss). I know peeps are hatin' on Moss right now - but without Moss, Welker would not have his numbers.
    Posted by BubbaInHawaii



    Wes was just a young receiver in Miami and only had the likes of these 2 QB's throwing him the ball.

    Gus Freotte - 27  or something receptions
    Joey Harrington - 67 receptions (huge jump in his second season actually playing)
    Then he came to NE and jumped to a consistent low 100's for the past 3 seasons. (2 of those with Brady and one with Cassell, all with Moss)

    Are Wes's reception totals helped by Moss, NE, Brady, etc... I am sure they are. HUGE help? Not sure but considering he was doubled all game against the Saints according to all counts reported and still had 6 receptions... extrapolate that to 16 games and he still ends up with 96 receptions being doubled every game.

    My point is not a knock on Randy's affect on Wes's numbers. Simply I think Wes would be effective regardless because of the position. He has the whole field to work with where as Randy does not so a double on Randy or other wide-out has a much more damning effect due to the limited field space the wide-out has to work with.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: TROY BROWN OR WES WELKER?

    In Response to Re: TROY BROWN OR WES WELKER?:
    Id have to go w/ Troy , u really think Welker is the same guy w/out 81, please. Listen hes very good at what he does , but how was he in Maimi? And as for 81 , the guy has performed everywhere he playd since high school! I know "wut bout oakland" 69 1008 8 tds , w/ no help at all , isnt bad at all! 
    Posted by SICOFITALL


    Yeah he was pretty good in Miami. That's why we traded for him.

    He had 67 receptions from and awful Joey Harrignton on an Awful 6-10 Miami team that year. He jumped 40 something receptions from his previous season in Maiami.

    He made another 40 reception jump in 2007 when he came to the pats but you can't say he never made a 40 reception jump before that because he did and on a worse team.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from SICOFITALL. Show SICOFITALL's posts

    Re: TROY BROWN OR WES WELKER?

    In Response to Re: TROY BROWN OR WES WELKER?:
    In Response to Re: TROY BROWN OR WES WELKER? : Wes was just a young receiver in Miami and only had the likes of these 2 QB's throwing him the ball. Gus Freotte - 27  or something receptions Joey Harrington - 67 receptions (huge jump in his second season actually playing) Then he came to NE and jumped to a consistent low 100's for the past 3 seasons. (2 of those with Brady and one with Cassell, all with Moss) Are Wes's reception totals helped by Moss, NE, Brady, etc... I am sure they are. HUGE help? Not sure but considering he was doubled all game against the Saints according to all counts reported and still had 6 receptions... extrapolate that to 16 games and he still ends up with 96 receptions being doubled every game. My point is not a knock on Randy's affect on Wes's numbers. Simply I think Wes would be effective regardless because of the position. He has the whole field to work with where as Randy does not so a double on Randy or other wide-out has a much more damning effect due to the limited field space the wide-out has to work with.
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from SICOFITALL. Show SICOFITALL's posts

    Re: TROY BROWN OR WES WELKER?

    I have to disagree, respectively, and im not exactly sure what u mean by "he has the whole field to work w/" Wes has a much smaller part of the field to work w/ , its kinda late I dont have the stats in front of me , but im willing to bet 75% of his receptions come within say 10-15 yrds from scrimage. Whereas 81(when used correctly) will catch quick-outs , once n a while a slant over the middle , comebacks , and of coarse the 9 route or go route. To be honest it pains me a lil' to have this convo. because it's  sound like im slighting Wes(to a small exent I guess I am) , I think hes the top slot rec. in the game , easy. Also Id give u a point for your agruement concerning his QB's in Maimi , except Randy made Gus Frerotte look like an actually QB , along w/ the likes of Jeff George , Daunte (53 fumbles in 68 games), Kerry Collins , Aaron Brooks , Andrew Walter , Marcus TuISUKo , and Matt Cassell. Believe me I understand Wes isnt on 81's level(Im not comparing them) and everyone needs a lil' help. But Troy didnt exactly have real threats beside him at rec. Im basing my arguement on what I saw Troy do w/ lil' help and Wes playing w/ a top 5 rec. all time.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Geographer91. Show Geographer91's posts

    Re: TROY BROWN or WELKER as a RECEIVER?

    I would go with Welker, as a slot receiver I see him taking  hits and holding onto the ball time and time again.  Troy was golden all the time and he deserves to be in the Pats hall of fame, but if I had to choose I would take Wes.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: TROY BROWN OR WES WELKER?

    In Response to Re: TROY BROWN OR WES WELKER?:
    I have to disagree, respectively, and im not exactly sure what u mean by "he has the whole field to work w/" Wes has a much smaller part of the field to work w/ , its kinda late I dont have the stats in front of me , but im willing to bet 75% of his receptions come within say 10-15 yrds from scrimage. Whereas 81(when used correctly) will catch quick-outs , once n a while a slant over the middle , comebacks , and of coarse the 9 route or go route. To be honest it pains me a lil' to have this convo. because it's  sound like im slighting Wes(to a small exent I guess I am) , I think hes the top slot rec. in the game , easy. Also Id give u a point for your agruement concerning his QB's in Maimi , except Randy made Gus Frerotte look like an actually QB , along w/ the likes of Jeff George , Daunte (53 fumbles in 68 games), Kerry Collins , Aaron Brooks , Andrew Walter , Marcus TuISUKo , and Matt Cassell. Believe me I understand Wes isnt on 81's level(Im not comparing them) and everyone needs a lil' help. But Troy didnt exactly have real threats beside him at rec. Im basing my arguement on what I saw Troy do w/ lil' help and Wes playing w/ a top 5 rec. all time.
    Posted by SICOFITALL


    First please let me say I was not saying who I would pick because I could never choose between them. I remember when Troy was bouncing between being released and the practice squad like the Pats do with so many young fringe players and finally made the roster but did not start.

    I would watch a game with my old man and EVERY time the Pats were in 3rd down Troy would come in and make a catch for a first down and I would turn to the old man and say I don't get it dad, why if 3rd down is so critical does this guy come in and make every catch yet they don't play him on any other down. He eventually did and the rest is history as they say.

    My point about the slot position being easier to deal with double teams is that they might primarily work in a 5 - 15 yard range from line of scrimmage BUT they have more ability to work the entire width of the field. The wide-out might have more vertical room but with the safety over the top and the fact that the NFL has alot of straight line speed guys and its easier to cover someone in a straight line with 2 covers(1 under 1 over) than when someone is cutting, stop & go, zig-zag, etc. (Just think back to when you were a kid and tried to chase someone playing tah ina straight line vs them dipsy doing all over the damn place)

    It also seems the slot receiver will be drawing a teams 3rd cornerback or LB in coverage which is another probable advantage over the #1 wide-out. These things most often would be the case even without the wide-out being Randy Moss .


     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: TROY BROWN or WELKER as a RECEIVER?

    I love Welker, but this isnt even fair.  Brown is my all time patriot.  all time.  period.  He was a central part of those SB teams, returned the punt that beat the steelers, played DB for half a season, and time after time pulled a rabbit out of his @$$ to win a game.  Welker CAN be as good or better, he just needs some time.  Watching him when he was with miami against us, score, kick his own extra point, then kick off to us, i said to myself "where do they find these guys!?!  i'd love to have him!".  then next year, we got him.  FOR A 2nd ROUND PICK!!!  i was elated.  Still, Brown till some more spectacular WW moments.  And even then, its not either/or.  The both are amazing.  So is little Kevin Faulk. (I call him little Kevin Faulk because in the early years, all the "talking heads"  downed him because they said he was too little.  Now everytime he scores or something big, i say --"There goes little kevin faulk!!!  and laugh at how sports announcers are full of it) 
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mungomunro. Show Mungomunro's posts

    Re: TROY BROWN or WELKER as a RECEIVER?

     My heart says Troy Brown but my brain says Welker.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from PATSNYFAN. Show PATSNYFAN's posts

    Re: TROY BROWN or WELKER as a RECEIVER?

    I WILL NEVER PUT TROY BROWN IN BACK OF ANYONE. THATS IT!
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from pyegian. Show pyegian's posts

    Re: TROY BROWN or WELKER as a RECEIVER?

    Let me preface this by saying I absolutely, positively love Troy Brown.  Troy Brown will be someone I tell my grandchildren about one day as one of the hardest working, more inspirational athletes I've ever seen.  There is nobody who symbolizes the Patriots more than Troy Brown does.

    However, I think Welker just has a little bit more talent as a receiver.  I have never seen anyone with the short-area quickness of Welker, nor the ability to put himself in harm's way and still make the catch before getting blown up by a defender.  They are remarkably similar, but Welker will likely end his career with significantly better numbers than Troy.

    We should feel very fortunate to have had the opportunity to watch these two guys play football in Patriots uniforms.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: TROY BROWN or WELKER as a RECEIVER?

    I think we should bring Troy back this year?...Does BB have him on speed dial?
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rodimus77. Show Rodimus77's posts

    Re: TROY BROWN or WELKER as a RECEIVER?

    Can I have both?
     
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