True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety)

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety)

    In Response to Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety):
    In Response to Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety) : I think Collinsworth thinks most good NFL receivers catch balls that hit them square in both hands.
    Posted by BabeParilli

    Not passes like that.  Welker had get up in the air (pass was high) while twisting (pass was to the wrong shoulder) and get the ball.  While none of us here are world class receivers I can certainly say that if anyone has ever played receiver I am pretty sure you have tried to make catches exactly like that one and know how crazy difficult it is to make a catch like that, even if you are able to get your hands on the ball.  Running full speed, jumping into the air while twisting 180 degrees around and to get catch a ball, I don't think you are taking into consideration just how tough that is. 

    Even if TFB threw it to the outside shoulder and the ball was lower and didn't have to go up in the air to get it willl rotating 180 degrees he probably would have came down with it.

    Why so much air on the ball?  Had Brady thrown it on a rope and hit Welker in stride on the inside shoulder it would have been inside the 15 but the time Welker was taken down.  The safety was playing that angle, no way could he have made a play on that pass.
     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety)

    In response to "Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety)":
    I've watched the video a number of times.  Welker is actually faded on the route while looking to the inside.  Yes there is a back shoulder.  it is Welker's shoulder closest to the sideline.  Had Welker looked to the outside as opposed to the inside on his route, he likely would have made the catch in stride.  Its likely that Welker turned inside because the safety's first reaction upon the snap is toward the middle of the field.  I give Welker alot of credit for the effort.  He still should have caught the ball, and Brady should have thrown a better ball. Posted by UD6
    Yes, but also consider this- I'm right, and you're wrong.
     
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    Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety)

    In Response to Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety):
    In response to "Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety)": Yes, but also consider this- I'm right, and you're wrong.
    Posted by shenanigan


    I'll call that a babe-ism.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety)

    In Response to Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety):
    In Response to Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety) : I'll call that a babe-ism.
    Posted by UD6



    You're what we call trollism.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety)

    In Response to Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety):
    In Response to Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety) : Not passes like that.  Welker had get up in the air (pass was high) while twisting (pass was to the wrong shoulder) and get the ball.  While none of us here are world class receivers I can certainly say that if anyone has ever played receiver I am pretty sure you have tried to make catches exactly like that one and know how crazy difficult it is to make a catch like that, even if you are able to get your hands on the ball.  Running full speed, jumping into the air while twisting 180 degrees around and to get catch a ball, I don't think you are taking into consideration just how tough that is.  Even if TFB threw it to the outside shoulder and the ball was lower and didn't have to go up in the air to get it willl rotating 180 degrees he probably would have came down with it. Why so much air on the ball?  Had Brady thrown it on a rope and hit Welker in stride on the inside shoulder it would have been inside the 15 but the time Welker was taken down.  The safety was playing that angle, no way could he have made a play on that pass.
    Posted by TFB12


    It     hit    him    square    on    both    hands.     He    dropped    it.

    He admitted he has made a catch like that 1000 times and dropped it. Whether the pass was great or not is moot. Stop making excuses for him.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from qball369. Show qball369's posts

    Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety)

    In Response to Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety):
    In Response to Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety) : I don't think Welker misjudged the ball at all. Given the physical gyrations required to get in position to make the catch, I think he did everything he could have to make the catch possible.  I think given the protection, the play (read and react, not timing), Brady (who I consider to be an incredibly accurate passer - more accurate than Manning) blew the throw.  I won't absolve Welker of failing at his responsibility, he got his hands on the ball, he should catch the ball, but I also won't absolve Brady of his in this situation especially if Brady is one of the best of all time and Welker's success is simply the product of Brady's greatness.  Can't have it both ways if you believe this.
    Posted by UD6


    Good ole UD - trolling the Pats site again - don't the Broncos have a site you can express your love for Manning on?

    On this play - Brady could have thrown a better ball for sure, but we all have seen Welker make way tougher catches than that  - what are you going to do

    The true fans of the Patriots on this site aren't diminishing Welker's accomplishments based on 1 pass - Welker is a great player who picked a bad time to not grab a tough, but catchable ball -

    Brady is a sure 1st ballot hall of fame QB who picked a bad time to deliver a less than perfect throw - one throw surely doesn't define his career - it is not as though he threw an interception or anything - 

    Not like the God of Perfection Peyton Manning, who telegraphed a perfect strike to Tracy Porter for a Pick Six to effectively end SB 44 - should his hall of fame credentials be is question based on what bad decision, can't say it was bad pass, it hit Porter between the numbers

    Come on UD - spin this to make yourself the victim you pathetic trollCool
     
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    Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety)

    *YAWN*
     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety)

    In Response to Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety):
    In Response to Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety) : It     hit    him    square    on    both    hands.     He    dropped    it. He admitted he has made a catch like that 1000 times and dropped it. Whether the pass was great or not is moot. Stop making excuses for him.
    Posted by BabeParilli

    And it was a poorly thrown ball.  TFB did him no favors there.  And I hate to tell you that just because you can get two hands on the ball does not mean the ball is catchable all the time.  Are you still believing that ol saying that if you can touch it you can catch it.  Sorry, but that's not always the case.

    I'm not saying Welker couldn't have caught it, I'm saying it was a much more difficult catch to make then you are pretending it to not be.  My man TFB made a mistake too and threw a poor ball, made a bad decision on where to place the ball. 

    At the end of the day, if you have to blame one play on losing the game then they did not play a good game.  Plus, there are many more plays that were just as bad and played just as much into that loss as this play.  So if you are into pointing fingers here, lets start pointing them at other plays too.  My man TFB made a huge mistake with getting that safety called on him and forcing the ball to Gronk for the INT, Branch blew a critical catch, Hernandez blew a critical catch,  there were several mistakes in this game. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety)

    In Response to Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety):
    In Response to Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety) : Good ole UD - trolling the Pats site again - don't the Broncos have a site you can express your love for Manning on? On this play - Brady could have thrown a better ball for sure, but we all have seen Welker make way tougher catches than that  - what are you going to do The true fans of the Patriots on this site aren't diminishing Welker's accomplishments based on 1 pass - Welker is a great player who picked a bad time to not grab a tough, but catchable ball - Brady is a sure 1st ballot hall of fame QB who picked a bad time to deliver a less than perfect throw - one throw surely doesn't define his career - it is not as though he threw an interception or anything -  Not like the God of Perfection Peyton Manning, who telegraphed a perfect strike to Tracy Porter for a Pick Six to effectively end SB 44 - should his hall of fame credentials be is question based on what bad decision, can't say it was bad pass, it hit Porter between the numbers Come on UD - spin this to make yourself the victim you pathetic troll
    Posted by qball369


    Wow Q - you weren't being very nice, when, in fact, it appears we agree.  Welker should have made the catch.  Brady should have thrown a better ball. 

    That said, there are some who claim to be pats fans who have diminished Welker's accomplishments based on the drop and his contract negotiations. 

    And no, neither the drop nor the pass defines either of these players' careers. 

    And, if you've read all of my comments on this thread (maybe I said it on another), I think Brady is a more accurate passer than Manning. 

    Lighten up Q.  We agree.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety)

    In Response to Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety):
    In Response to Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety) :  I won't absolve Welker of failing at his responsibility, he got his hands on the ball, he should catch the ball, but I also won't absolve Brady of his in this situation especially if Brady is one of the best of all time and Welker's success is simply the product of Brady's greatness.  Can't have it both ways if you believe this.
    Posted by UD6


    Brady did what he had to do - get a catchable ball to Welker.

    Welker did not do what he had to do - catch a catchable ball.

    I never said Welker's success is simply a product of Brady's greatness. Of course any receiver will do better given a better passer, but Welker is a great receiver entirely by his own merit.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety)

    In Response to Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety):
    In Response to Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety) :That said, there are some who claim to be pats fans who have diminished Welker's accomplishments based on the drop and his contract negotiations.
    Posted by UD6



    I have seen no Pats' fans saying this. Prove it.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety)

    In Response to Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety):
    In Response to Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety) : And I hate to tell you that just because you can get two hands on the ball does not mean the ball is catchable all the time.
    Posted by TFB12



    Are you saying that ball was not catchable?
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from AcheNot. Show AcheNot's posts

    Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety)

    The title beneath the video at the Vimeo site is "Wes Welker's rucial drop", not "Tom Brady's off-target throw"

    I agree with Shenanigan

    The physical dexterity, body control, and athleticism required to come down with that ball was nothing special

    Not by the standard of the NFL

    Please...

    PS Watching that video again after all this time is excruciating. Ugh. Wish I never looked at the damn thing
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety)

    In Response to Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety):
    In Response to Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety) : Brady did what he had to do - get a catchable ball to Welker. Welker did not do what he had to do - catch a catchable ball. I never said Welker's success is simply a product of Brady's greatness. Of course any receiver will do better given a better passer, but Welker is a great receiver entirely by his own merit.
    Posted by BabeParilli

    You giving Brady a pass based on the minimum standard for a QB.  That standard is not what makes Tom Brady the great QB he's is.  Had Brady been under even the slightest amount of pressure and/or had the play been based on a timing pattern, I'd be less critical.  Neither of those things apply.  

    I wasn't accusing you specifically of minimizing Welker, but you have to admit that there are some here that based on his drop and his contract negotiations who have.   
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety)

    In Response to Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety):
    In Response to Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety) : I have seen no Pats' fans saying this. Prove it.
    Posted by BabeParilli


    I have neither the time nor desire to do what you ask.  The threads about Welker are out there and plenty and there are plenty who've been critical of Welker for his drop and his contract request and even suggested that he's "not all that" but rather, as I said, successful because of his QB and not on his own merits.

    Besides, if I took the time to do what you ask, I would anticipate a response from you that would say some to the tune of "they are not Pats fans."
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety)

    In Response to Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety):
    In Response to Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety) : I have neither the time nor desire to do what you ask.  The threads about Welker are out there and plenty and there are plenty who've been critical of Welker for his drop and his contract request and even suggested that he's "not all that" but rather, as I said, successful because of his QB and not on his own merits. Besides, if I took the time to do what you ask, I would anticipate a response from you that would say some to the tune of "they are not Pats fans."
    Posted by UD6



    Then it shall be considered just another of your lies.
     
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    Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety)

    If every throw was perfect, there would never be spectacular catches.
     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety)

    Babe, I can't remember... what was your take on the Brady pass to Underwood when Brady and O'Brien got into it on the sidelines?
     
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    Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety)

    In Response to Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety):
    If every throw was perfect, there would never be spectacular catches.
    Posted by digger0862


    Well, the pass was imperfect, but if completed, would the catch have qualified as a "spectacular" play?

    To me, not even close

    Would have been a good one. And a clutch one. The kind of reception a reliable receiver like Welker makes all the time. But spectacular? Pfffft. No way

    Highlight reel only because of what it would have meant in the context of the game. But as a sheer, physical football play, it would have been just okay

    He should have held on. Agreed?
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety)

    Well, the pass was imperfect, but if completed, would the catch have qualified as a "spectacular" play? To me, not even close Would have been a good one. And a clutch one. The kind of reception a reliable receiver like Welker makes all the time. But spectacular? Pfffft. No way Highlight reel only because of what it would have meant in the context of the game. But as a sheer, physical football play, it would have been just okay He should have held on. Agreed?
    Posted by AcheNot

    Tough, though not spectacular. Yes, Wes normally makes that catch.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety)

    In Response to Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety):
    Babe, I can't remember... what was your take on the Brady pass to Underwood when Brady and O'Brien got into it on the sidelines?
    Posted by TFB12



    Underwood error on the play. He drifted back instead of coming to the ball. That's likely what Brady was on him for. But that wasn't a smart pass by Brady. You can't expect a street scrub like that to read the ball like a veteran. No way you try to cut it that close with a guy like Underwood. I consider that more of a mental error than a bad throw.
     
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    Re: True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety)

    In Response to True analysis of Brady's poor throw (and I ain't talkin the safety):
    By 5 yards into his route, Welker is looking to his inside.  With the safety not being a concern (not with Tom Brady's arm), and with the play not being a timing play, and with Brady not being pressured, Brady did not need to get rid of the ball so quickly.  If he's going to hold the ball as long as he did on the safety, what changed here?  

    UD, you were going along fine until you came to this paragraph.  Was Brady supposed to wait till Welker ran another five, another ten yards?  The safety seemed to be coming back to cover Welker when he saw Welker open.  Was Brady suppossed to wait until the safety got there?  I think your argument falls apart right here. Brady sees Welker beat the defender then throws the ball away from the safetly to an area of the field where Welker can get to the ball and the defenders can't.  Whether Brady threw it too far or Welker didn't adjust right is impossible for me to tell because my football expertise doesn't extend that far.  Still, I don't see this as a horrible play by either player.  It was close to a completion.  Not every play is going to work.  The problem we have on this board is that certain people have an agenda to try to tell us Brady is the reason the Pats don't win Super Bowls anymore.  So they blow this play out of all proportion and completely ignore everything else that happened in the game. In my opinion Brady only made one serious mistake in the game.  The intereception.  Everything else was hardly Brady's fault.  No one mentions the two beautiful drives Brady orchestrated to end the first half and start the third.  You'd think this wasn't a Patriots board the way those two great drives are completely passed over and instead we focus on three plays (safety, interception, and Welker pass).  Crazy.  

    Maybe Brady was afraid of the safety so he put the ball in the location where only Welker could get it, but in doing so, he raised the degree of difficulty for the catch significantly.  not only was it high, it was long.  Intentionally thrown back shoulder throws are slightly short of the receivers momentum because receivers have to slow down to make the body adjustment for the ball.

    Was it suppossed to be a back shoulder catch (the way Welker played it) or was Welker suppossed to adjust his route to the left in response to the inside defenders?  I don't know.   



     
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