Vilma Files Suit vs Goodell

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    Vilma Files Suit vs Goodell

    I am against what Bountygate represents in every way but I do believe that all have a right to a fair trial or examination of the facts. I appreciate what Goodell has done to make the league safer but the rights of players must be safeguarded as well. This includes right to a fair, unbiased examination of the facts. Goodell as NFL commissioner is not able to be judge, jury, executioner and handle appeals. He needs to step aside in general and have an independent counsel, not affiliated with the NFL examine all situation involving appeals. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from glenr. Show glenr's posts

    Re: Vilma Files Suit vs Goodell

    In Response to Vilma Files Suit vs Goodell:
    [QUOTE]I am against what Bountygate represents in every way but I do believe that all have a right to a fair trial or examination of the facts. I appreciate what Goodell has done to make the league safer but the rights of players must be safeguarded as well. This includes right to a fair, unbiased examination of the facts. Goodell as NFL commissioner is not able to be judge, jury, executioner and handle appeals. He needs to step aside in general and have an independent counsel, not affiliated with the NFL examine all situation involving appeals. 
    Posted by NYC[/QUOTE]

    The NFL is a business not a criminal court system. Since when is a business required to hold a trial in order to punish an employee
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Vilma Files Suit vs Goodell

    In Response to Re: Vilma Files Suit vs Goodell:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Vilma Files Suit vs Goodell : The NFL is a business not a criminal court system. Since when is a business required to hold a trial in order to punish an employee
    Posted by glenr[/QUOTE]

    +1, the only reason you can hold trial against an employer is if a criminal act occurred, harassment, or wrongful termination.

    But, Vilma is suing for deformation which means that Goodell made untrue statements publicly that could cause finance or emotional harm. So, if Goodell suspended Vilma and made the reasons why publicly without evidence then Vilma has the right to sue for future loss, but if Goodell even has the tiniest shred of evidence that Vilma was involved then Vilma has no case what so ever since it violated NFL rules agreed upon by the NFLPA
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: Vilma Files Suit vs Goodell

    I think the BIG problem for Vilma in filing this suit is that he, his coaches, and his teammates may all have to testify under oath in a court of law. It is one thing to lie to the commisioner and his investigators - the penalty may be a suspension or a fine. If you lie under oath, the penalty is a little more severe - perjury, criminal record, jail time, and fine.
    We already know that Williams is cooperating, we can suspect that a few players have already broken ranks, and team loyalty does not stretch to sworn testimony.

    If Vilma testifies that he never said there was $10,000 on a players 'head' I think there will be plenty of people that said he did and he faces perjury charges. If his defense is that, a) it wasn't his money, and b) he wasn't serious, and c) he never paid or intended to pay - he just lost his case.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: Vilma Files Suit vs Goodell

    I'm sorta torn right here...  On 1 hand, it's kinda tough to make an argument on the complete dismissiveness of a covert system that 1 group held to offer escalating money payments based on the greater degree of how well you performed in actually breaking or tearing some other guy's body parts...

    On the otherhand, Roger Goodell is an arrogant, pompous pr!ck whom never even IMAGINES that Mr. President King & Lord Roger Goodell, has to answer to anyone...EVER.  NO other Commissioner in any sport as far back as I can remember, Has EVER shown to the extent of Goodell, the power-madness of changing a sport to this extent, levying fines and punishments that either so randomly subjective from 1 party to the next, and/or Are such exemplaries of his unquestioned sense of Absolute Control & Power that the guy actually fines player after player based on unflagged and unpenalized hits (some rightfully...most here=Not at all) on the field...which are based on some ever-changing madness of WhoTH even knows?!?  The weather...?!?  What he had for lunch that day?!?


    Wish it was anything OTHER than something like Jonathan Vilma and "BountyGate" which might place Heir Goodell under the uncomfortable judgement of someone other than himself...Because make NO mistake, There are VERY few guys who deserve some kinda b#tch-sl#p to put his #ss in check, more than Roger Goodell does.     
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Vilma Files Suit vs Goodell

    Stuff is going to hit the fan now.  I really believe the NFL held the evidence because the wanted to protect peoples privacy.  Now more names will come out, whistle blowers will be made public and more despicable things the Saints did will be made public.  Vilma just made a whole lot of people nervous, and the NFL isn't one of those people.  Vilma might wake up with a horse head in his bed one morning.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Salcon. Show Salcon's posts

    Re: Vilma Files Suit vs Goodell

    I'm with Laz on this one.

    I don't have any problem with trying to make the game safer but I don't like how he arbitrarily fines players for hits that were penalized or even deemed legal by the refs.

    I also thought the penalty given to the Pats for the whole Spygate fiasco was too severe.  He just didn't like the fact that BB basically snubbed him. 
     
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    Re: Vilma Files Suit vs Goodell

    I hope he bankrupts goodell
     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from NYC. Show NYC's posts

    Re: Vilma Files Suit vs Goodell

    In Response to Re: Vilma Files Suit vs Goodell:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Vilma Files Suit vs Goodell : The NFL is a business not a criminal court system. Since when is a business required to hold a trial in order to punish an employee
    Posted by glenr[/QUOTE]

    The NFL is more than a business; it is a national institution, an entity that represents the values of the country. Fairness and Democracy are values we hold dear and the world still judges us by these standards. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from xxxcrwn. Show xxxcrwn's posts

    Re: Vilma Files Suit vs Goodell

    In Response to Re: Vilma Files Suit vs Goodell:
    [QUOTE] I felt Kraft and BB should have sued by now, especially considering how some of the NFL employees still publicly slander the Pats and the organization.  Personally, I don't know how Goodell allows other NFL employees (players or coaches) continue to mouth off about Spygate. Goodell said there was no advantage gained, yet many continue to lie and slander in print. You can't sell lies and then work under the umbrella where your paycheck comes from.  It's like a constant thing, where if Goodell handled Spygate better and didn't knee jerk his decision and make stupid moves to appease a venemous public and media contingent, none of those aftereffects would have occurred. It's pretty clear Kraft and BB have decided to take the high road and I have to say it takes a lot of professionalism to do that. Kraft could have bankrupted the Herald in milliseconds back in 2008, but he chose not to.
    Posted by BassFishingII[/QUOTE]

    Isn't it amazing how Goodell ruled on Spygate, never released proof, let the media run wild, & somehow all of the evidence was destroyed? People who destroy evidence have something to hide, like a horribly wrong decision. It would be great to have him in court today because all it would be is Roger's word with not a scrap of proof. 
     
    I wonder how that investigation of how "the tape" that was "stolen" from his residence is going? It's been about 5 years & he can't figure which of the 2 people living there released it? Since we knew in 2007 the Jets were also taping, how does anybody know it wasn't theirs? The whole thing stinks of an incompetent cover up.
     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from oklahomapatriot. Show oklahomapatriot's posts

    Re: Vilma Files Suit vs Goodell

    In Response to Re: Vilma Files Suit vs Goodell:
    [QUOTE]Stuff is going to hit the fan now.  I really believe the NFL held the evidence because the wanted to protect peoples privacy.  Now more names will come out, whistle blowers will be made public and more despicable things the Saints did will be made public.  Vilma just made a whole lot of people nervous, and the NFL isn't one of those people.  Vilma might wake up with a horse head in his bed one morning.
    Posted by TFB12[/QUOTE]

    this why Vilma did it so they can find out who blew the whistle
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Vilma Files Suit vs Goodell

    Vilma is opening a Pandora's Box he may not like.  The Courts treat lying a lot differently than the NFL would.  Vilma may be relying on fellow players closing ranks to protect him, but, this is a court of law and not the NFL commissioner's office.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: Vilma Files Suit vs Goodell

    How does one sue the president of their company and keep their job?
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Vilma Files Suit vs Goodell

    For all the wanna be Harvard Grads on this board,All Vilma has to do to win this lawsuit is show that Goodsmell defamed him in a public forum.I listen to XM/Sirius radio and have personally heard the statements that have come from Goodsmells mouth and he has Defamed Vilma in the truest sense of the word by declaring that he was the biggest culprit amongst the players involved in the alledged Bountygate scandal. Personally I hope Jonathan Vilma wipes Goodsmells bottom and takes every nickel that the he has,Mr.Judge,Jury and executioner is without a doubt in my mind giving the game a bad name with his holier than thou attitude.This dictator fined the Patriots because BB didn't interpit his dictum correctly in Spygate,does anyone here really think that BB is a stupid and willing breaker of rules? Truly no man who has a connection to a NY franchise should be handing out punishment on a former opponents team for anything.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Vilma Files Suit vs Goodell

    In Response to Re: Vilma Files Suit vs Goodell:
    [QUOTE]For all the wanna be Harvard Grads on this board,All Vilma has to do to win this lawsuit is show that Goodsmell defamed him in a public forum.I listen to XM/Sirius radio and have personally heard the statements that have come from Goodsmells mouth and he has Defamed Vilma in the truest sense of the word by declaring that he was the biggest culprit amongst the players involved in the alledged Bountygate scandal. Personally I hope Jonathan Vilma wipes Goodsmells bottom and takes every nickel that the he has,Mr.Judge,Jury and executioner is without a doubt in my mind giving the game a bad name with his holier than thou attitude.This dictator fined the Patriots because BB didn't interpit his dictum correctly in Spygate,does anyone here really think that BB is a stupid and willing breaker of rules? Truly no man who has a connection to a NY franchise should be handing out punishment on a former opponents team for anything.
    Posted by sportsbozo1[/QUOTE]

    It's only defamation if it's not true.  Apparently he has evidence that says it is, right down to how much money he offered for what player.
    If others testified to that or have it on tape, it is reasonable for Goddell to believe them.  They had over 500 pages of evidence, so it's reasonable to think there were many fingers pointing at Vilma and that they were very specific about it.  27 players and  more coaches were investigated. 
    They did not accuse but a few with Vilma as the ring leader and worst offender.
    He's screwed...
    Goodell is a pr**k but at least they investigated this for 3 years (and gave them many warnings) and not 3 days, like the Pats.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: Vilma Files Suit vs Goodell

    In Response to Re: Vilma Files Suit vs Goodell:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Vilma Files Suit vs Goodell : It's only defamation if it's not true.  Apparently he has evidence that says it is, right down to how much money he offered for what player. If others testified to that or have it on tape, it is reasonable for Goddell to believe them.  They had over 500 pages of evidence, so it's reasonable to think there were many fingers pointing at Vilma and that they were very specific about it.  27 players and  more coaches were investigated.  They did not accuse but a few with Vilma as the ring leader and worst offender. He's screwed... Goodell is a pr**k but at least they investigated this for 3 years (and gave them many warnings) and not 3 days, like the Pats.
    Posted by pezz4pats[/QUOTE]
    Godell has two defenses:
    1. It is true and therefore not defamation(and he probably has some pretty solid evidence) and
    2. Vilma is certainly a public figure, so not only must Vilma prove it is false, but he also has to prove malicious intent.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rocky. Show Rocky's posts

    Re: Vilma Files Suit vs Goodell

    Didn't Vilma start his career with the perennial Super Bowl favorites the New York Jets?
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Stommpper. Show Stommpper's posts

    Re: Vilma Files Suit vs Goodell

    In Response to Re: Vilma Files Suit vs Goodell:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Vilma Files Suit vs Goodell : The NFL is more than a business; it is a national institution, an entity that represents the values of the country. Fairness and Democracy are values we hold dear and the world still judges us by these standards. 
    Posted by NYC[/QUOTE]

    The NFL is and ONLY is, a buisness.
    It is the people such as yourself that add the extra superlatives, declaring it a national institution.
    PLEASE, explain how a company that does nothing more than provide entertainment to its viewers become the way in which the world judges the United States in its values and political standards....I'm sorry but you are totally delusional if this is your understanding of the NFL.

    as for players rights......
    The NFL is an buisness employer, nothing more.
    When you sign a contract with your employer you agree to conduct yourself in a manner of which your contract states and will adhere to the rules and regulations stated of said parties involved and the company.
    The players in this company have a legal Union (although a total fiasco) for their benifit.
    If there is evidence that Mr. Vilma not only added money but planned attacks to do physical harm on other players within the NFL, this should even be taken further. The players should hire legal council against Mr. Vilma and seek him to be put in Jail.
    If any of you were planning to attack someone and put money up to do so, if caught you would be in Jail. But because this is the NFL its ok?

    Many of you may hate Roger Goodell, but without him, the NFL is totally amuck with thugs, drug users, cheaters and now hitmen within the organization, so where does it end?
    There is not 1 of us here that has any idea what Roger Goodell faces in trying to save and keep the NFL as balanced as possible.
    He is the head of the organization, and as the head you have to make many decesions that MANY people will not like, good bad or indifferent, he is doing so.

    The NFL is a business, period, it owes no one anything except its owners and shareholders. For those of you thinking its the United States symbol of Democracy, I say to you please seek medical help and call Doctor Phil immediately....
    HURRY....Vince McMahon called and would like to see you!Yell

     
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from NYC. Show NYC's posts

    Re: Vilma Files Suit vs Goodell

    In Response to Re: Vilma Files Suit vs Goodell:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Vilma Files Suit vs Goodell : The NFL is and ONLY is, a buisness. It is the people such as yourself that add the extra superlatives, declaring it a national institution. PLEASE, explain how a company that does nothing more than provide entertainment to its viewers become the way in which the world judges the United States in its values and political standards....I'm sorry but you are totally delusional if this is your understanding of the NFL. as for players rights...... The NFL is an buisness employer, nothing more. When you sign a contract with your employer you agree to conduct yourself in a manner of which your contract states and will adhere to the rules and regulations stated of said parties involved and the company. The players in this company have a legal Union (although a total fiasco) for their benifit. If there is evidence that Mr. Vilma not only added money but planned attacks to do physical harm on other players within the NFL, this should even be taken further. The players should hire legal council against Mr. Vilma and seek him to be put in Jail. If any of you were planning to attack someone and put money up to do so, if caught you would be in Jail. But because this is the NFL its ok? Many of you may hate Roger Goodell, but without him, the NFL is totally amuck with thugs, drug users, cheaters and now hitmen within the organization, so where does it end? There is not 1 of us here that has any idea what Roger Goodell faces in trying to save and keep the NFL as balanced as possible. He is the head of the organization, and as the head you have to make many decesions that MANY people will not like, good bad or indifferent, he is doing so. The NFL is a business, period, it owes no one anything except its owners and shareholders. For those of you thinking its the United States symbol of Democracy, I say to you please seek medical help and call Doctor Phil immediately.... HURRY....Vince McMahon called and would like to see you!  
    Posted by Stommpper[/QUOTE]

    Stommpper

    Thanks for your candidness. Maybe, I am delusional but as someone who has gone to school abroad and now lives and works part-time abroad I tend to take an international perspective on things. Perhaps, you are right: the NFL is a only a business  whose purpose it is provide entertainment. Certainly, it is entertaining. Yet, people do watch what America does. There are people with Red Sox caps all over the world and Dallas Cowboy fans in the South of France. And when Yao Ming played in the NBA we all got to know China through him on a personal basis. So, what I am saying is that sports particularly the NFL casts a very wide net that goes beyond pure economics. It influences social trends, fashion trends and indirectly people's thinking. Sports has become in an international platform and has been since the 1936 Olympics when a black Jesse Owens went to Nazi Berlin and stunned the world. Owens victories weren't just athletic statements, they were social statements about black equality.

    Of course, the NFL has the right to operate it's business anyway it chooses but even it recognizes the (financial and social) implications of it's decisions on a local and world-wide basis. 

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Vilma Files Suit vs Goodell

    Some people really go overboard.

    At any rate, I have NO PROBLEM with the year long suspension, and I have no doubt Goodell has evidence.

    A point being missed by many, Vilma, and ALL the players had a chance to come in and give their side of the story...they ALL declined, and decided to pull a "black and gold wall of silence" type of thing, figuring, I don't know, that such an act would end the investigation?

    Stupid move by overly arrogant players, and Vilma got what he deserved.

    I'll enjoy watching this all come out.

    Just like Vick defiantly stating as he's walking through a club, "I'll be exonerrated, y'all will see." I'll never forget that sparkly black shirt he was wearing with that look of disgust on his face. He was guilty. I have no doubt Vilma is guilty.

    I can't think of a time when Goodell has levied any fine with absolutely no evidence. For him to decide a year was worthy, he has plenty.

    Vilma, and the whole Saints organization continue to make an embarrassment of themselves with this nonsense, and clows like Brees talking about "thought they'd do something positive." Wow, he really used this situation as a negotiating ploy. Despicable.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: Vilma Files Suit vs Goodell

    Stommper - nice post, but just one point - the major sports leagues do get special dispensation from congress exempting them from certain laws. This does make them somewhat of a special case. I don't think this negates anything you are saying, except that they are not a 'simple' business like all other businesses.

    I do agree that Godell is the person standing between the NFL and total chaos. I do not agree with every fine he levels, every suspension, every penalty imposed, but I recognize the reasoning behind his actions and support them

    I hear pundits say - well the coaches and management were warned so OK with their penalties, but the players were never warned. Excuse me, but the NFL investigators were all over the Saints locker room two years ago asking players all about bounties, and the players either lied, or clammed up. Seems they knew then that it was not legal and that the league was 'sniffing around'. Not sure what kind of warning these pundits require.
    Well officer, nobody told me specifically there would be penalties if I killed a man, so I don't see how you can send me to jail?!!
    While the 'discovery' section of this lawsuit may reveal information the league would rather not air in public (including specific names of people that came clean), the sworn depositions that the league will take from 27 players, plus coaches and managers will be a can of worms that I do not think the Saints will want disclosed. That single audio tape was bad enough. If Godell gets angry enough, he may put Brees under oath as well - easy enough to deny any knowledge to a reporter, a little harder if such a denial is subject to perjury charges.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from p-mike. Show p-mike's posts

    Re: Vilma Files Suit vs Goodell

    Whether or not it turns out to be Pandora's Box, I don't like the idea of employers being able to steal a year of your career because of hearsay.

    If you've got the evidence, let's see it.


    Look . . .   I understand wanting to protect your favorite little snitch, but actions have consequences and I'm getting jolly well sick and tired of Goodell acting like the emperor and throwing up the "player safety" smokescreen every time he wants to inflict his personal agenda on the league.

     
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