Vincent Jackson or Brandon Lloyd.. Who would you take?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from dmcpatsfan. Show dmcpatsfan's posts

    Re: Vincent Jackson or Brandon Lloyd.. Who would you take?

    I'd love to have VJ but his off field DUI's scare me....as long as his contract voids at no hit to the Pats if he screws up I'd take him over Lloyd...Much better after the catch....
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Vincent Jackson or Brandon Lloyd.. Who would you take?

    Rusty how much would you give up for MJD?  No doubt he is a beast (how the hell do you run for 1600 with Blaine Gabbert at QB?), but I feel like the cost would be pretty damn high.
     
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    Re: Vincent Jackson or Brandon Lloyd.. Who would you take?

    V Jack.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Vincent Jackson or Brandon Lloyd.. Who would you take?



    For some reason, I think we're going to end up with Garcon.  Just seems like the kind of guy BB will go for. 


     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: Vincent Jackson or Brandon Lloyd.. Who would you take?

    Jackson.  Love the way he plays.  As far as being a malcontent, he DOES play in San Diego.  
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from NEGAME2. Show NEGAME2's posts

    Re: Vincent Jackson or Brandon Lloyd.. Who would you take?

    In Response to Vincent Jackson or Brandon Lloyd.. Who would you take?:
    [QUOTE]So it looks like Vincent Jackson is going to be a free man this coming season and with all the Brandon Lloyd wanting to follow Josh McDanials talk it looks like the Patriots could have a shot at one of these two players.  If so, who would you like to see the Patriots get?
    Posted by TFB12[/QUOTE]

    Hey TFB one of the reasons I lost in the  fantasy league was because of Jackson. I watched him every week and one big dissapointment.  no consistency week to week, it became apparant Rivers didn't trust him.  So much potential. but he just doesn't fight for the ball. rated so high but stay away, there's a reason SD s letting him walk/
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from natesubs. Show natesubs's posts

    Re: Vincent Jackson or Brandon Lloyd.. Who would you take?

    lloyd, stallworth
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Vincent Jackson or Brandon Lloyd.. Who would you take?

    Neither is worth overpaying, if that's the case take a rookie or wait to see who else becomes available.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Vincent Jackson or Brandon Lloyd.. Who would you take?

    We just broke Dan Marino's 25 year passing record but we need a wr?

    Brilliant.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Vincent Jackson or Brandon Lloyd.. Who would you take?



    Champ, you're making me laugh.  I know you're smarter about football than that! Of course we need a WR--maybe even two.  And I'm not saying that because I'm addicted to the passing game.  I'd like to see way more diversity in this offense and that means both (1) a better running game (I'm with you and Wozzy there) and (2) a more diverse set of receivers. 

    On the running game . . . I would love it to be better.  Our disagreement is whether it really can be better with the current backs.  I'm not so impressed with BJGE.  I think he gets the yards he gets mostly because defenses are generally more worried about the pass than about him.  Coaches treat him like BB was treating Mario Manningham in the Super Bowl:  "Worry about Gronk, Hernandez, Welker . . . and let the Pats try to beat us with BJGE."  Against a few teams (mostly bad ones) we can build a game plan around BJGE--but in general good defenses just stuff BJGE whenever they're expecting run.  He tends to get his biggest gains from the shotgun on passing downs.  Line him up in a heavy formation on an obvious running down and he invariably gets -1, 0, 1, or 2 yards.  Good running backs can beat the defense even when the defense is expecting run.  BJGE just can't seem to do that. 

    I really hope they get a good back--or that Ridley or Vereen turns out to be the answer.  But I also want the wideout.  Let's put an offense together for a change that really has the weapons to dominate against any team.  Or--if we prefer--let's start working on our defense so we can win games that way and don't have to rely so much on the offense getting lots of points. 



     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbear3915. Show mbear3915's posts

    Re: Vincent Jackson or Brandon Lloyd.. Who would you take?

    I keep trying to figure out what the key success factor is. Our drafted WR talent hasn't worked out for a while - since Deion and Givens were picked. Why? Perhaps route running, chemistry with Tom Brady (which is a huge factor)? Then when one looks at talent brought in - Welker and Moss - fabulous from day one, Gaffney was very productive - while Ocho and a very long list of others were huge misses.

    The secret seems to be that Branch, Welker, Moss and Gaffney were able to be at the right place on the field and make necessary adjustments to be 'one' with what Brady is thinking. Same holds true for immediate success with Gronk and Hernandez at TE.

    Easier said than done - but a football smart - team player that runs routes well. 

    Jackson versus Lloyd --- pretty binary --- if Josh thinks Lloyd will fit -- he's the one. Jackson would need to prove he can set aside his diva persona and be Moss of '07, '08 and '09 - and be affordable.


     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from mikeskii. Show mikeskii's posts

    Re: Vincent Jackson or Brandon Lloyd.. Who would you take?

    I like Garcon as well. Young, fast, and had a good year with a subpar qb

    In Response to Re: Vincent Jackson or Brandon Lloyd.. Who would you take?:
    [QUOTE]For some reason, I think we're going to end up with Garcon.  Just seems like the kind of guy BB will go for. 
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Vincent Jackson or Brandon Lloyd.. Who would you take?

    In Response to Re: Vincent Jackson or Brandon Lloyd.. Who would you take?:
    [QUOTE]I like Garcon as well. Young, fast, and had a good year with a subpar qb In Response to Re: Vincent Jackson or Brandon Lloyd.. Who would you take? :
    Posted by mikeskii[/QUOTE]


    My guess, too, is that any receiver who can play in that Colts offense has to be smart, make good reads, and run good routes.  That's the kind of guy BB wants. I don't think Garcon is the best receiver out there, but he just seems like the kind of guy who BB might like. 

     
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from itllnevahapn. Show itllnevahapn's posts

    Re: Vincent Jackson or Brandon Lloyd.. Who would you take?

    reggie wayne and robert meachum (sp?)
    matt roth was signed for 3 mill last yea, i dont see why not around the same an c. finnegan would be a r harrison type player.
    never give up alot for EB's they are a dime a dozen and are injury prone
     
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    Re: Vincent Jackson or Brandon Lloyd.. Who would you take?

    also i yhink desean jackson is a FA, 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbear3915. Show mbear3915's posts

    Re: Vincent Jackson or Brandon Lloyd.. Who would you take?

    While talented, I don't think DeSean J. is a "Patriots" kind of guy ... look at how Welker handle his contract year (and Vince and Ghost in prior years) ... versus how Moss acted.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Vincent Jackson or Brandon Lloyd.. Who would you take?

    In Response to Re: Vincent Jackson or Brandon Lloyd.. Who would you take?:
    [QUOTE]Champ, you're making me laugh.  I know you're smarter about football than that! Of course we need a WR--maybe even two.  And I'm not saying that because I'm addicted to the passing game.  I'd like to see way more diversity in this offense and that means both (1) a better running game (I'm with you and Wozzy there) and (2) a more diverse set of receivers.  On the running game . . . I would love it to be better.  Our disagreement is whether it really can be better with the current backs.  I'm not so impressed with BJGE.  I think he gets the yards he gets mostly because defenses are generally more worried about the pass than about him.  Coaches treat him like BB was treating Mario Manningham in the Super Bowl:  "Worry about Gronk, Hernandez, Welker . . . and let the Pats try to beat us with BJGE."  Against a few teams (mostly bad ones) we can build a game plan around BJGE--but in general good defenses just stuff BJGE whenever they're expecting run.  He tends to get his biggest gains from the shotgun on passing downs.  Line him up in a heavy formation on an obvious running down and he invariably gets -1, 0, 1, or 2 yards.  Good running backs can beat the defense even when the defense is expecting run.  BJGE just can't seem to do that.  I really hope they get a good back--or that Ridley or Vereen turns out to be the answer.  But I also want the wideout.  Let's put an offense together for a change that really has the weapons to dominate against any team.  Or--if we prefer--let's start working on our defense so we can win games that way and don't have to rely so much on the offense getting lots of points. 
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]


    I think after our long debate I have figured out where we disagree. I don't think our run game can be better. Thats not what I'm saying at all. I too want us to have a starting running back that was actually drafted. I think we need one and hopefully Ridley or Vareen can be that guy.

    What I am saying is that we need to run the ball more in order for our offense to be more effective. I do not think that will lead to less points as you have suggested. i think our ppg would be the same but it would diversify our offense as to help us succeed in the playoffs where we have consistently under performed.

    I don't think 20 carries for BJGE is the answer, but in many games I have watched running the ball in place of throwing would have kept our offense on the field and kept our defense off....like this Super Bowl where we couldn't keep the ball  after the 1st drive of the 2nd half. We don't need 5 ypc to be in order to sustain drives, we just need to keep the defense honest.

    We need more balance. I don't think if we give Benny 20 carries he will jump to 100 yards but I do think if our power runners get 20 carries(Ridley whoever) it will open up our passing game that gets stifled in the biggest stage.

    I understand the point about a field stretcher, but that has never been Brady's strong suit. Other then 07 with Randy(who caught a lot of jump balls) we are a dink and dunk offense. Brady is the most accurate QB in NFL history inside of 12 yards imo. But we always pounded the rock to open that up, and other then Corey in 04 we never had 4-5 ypc guys. We didn't need them.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Vincent Jackson or Brandon Lloyd.. Who would you take?

    Champ ... we've rehashed this debate over and over. I agree more diversity (including more running) would help.  But only with the right backs.  

    But on the wide receiver issue I think the reason they need someone else is not merely to take the top off the defense.  That would be beneficial, but I agree that Brady's strength is more in the short and intermediate game than the deep game. What they really need is a big, fast guy who can challenge corners along the sideline (ala David Givens) or catch the ball in traffic over the middle of the field. We rely way too much on guys who play the short middle of the field.  We need to use the edges, intermediate middle, and deep part of the field more.  As long as we keep the defense tight to the LOS, we won't have great success running either. 


     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Vincent Jackson or Brandon Lloyd.. Who would you take?

    In Response to Re: Vincent Jackson or Brandon Lloyd.. Who would you take?:
    [QUOTE]Champ ... we've rehashed this debate over and over. I agree more diversity (including more running) would help.  But only with the right backs.   But on the wide receiver issue I think the reason they need someone else is not merely to take the top off the defense.  That would be beneficial, but I agree that Brady's strength is more in the short and intermediate game than the deep game. What they really need is a big, fast guy who can challenge corners along the sideline (ala David Givens) or catch the ball in traffic over the middle of the field. We rely way too much on guys who play the short middle of the field.  We need to use the edges, intermediate middle, and deep part of the field more.  As long as we keep the defense tight to the LOS, we won't have great success running either. 
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

    I know I'll get killed for this but I really think Chad is coming back next year and will see increased playing time. I think Branch is at the end and Chad will get his reps. Chad had 15 rec's for 270 something yards. Get him 50 rec's and he is a major contributor with those ypc.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Vincent Jackson or Brandon Lloyd.. Who would you take?

    Well, the Patriots can spread the field horizontally. But they have lacked vertical spread. Even back in the day, when Branch and Givens were in their prime, neither of them had the pure talent that Gronk has (not many do) but they could get over the top. It made everything a lot harder to game plan for. It also makes play action more meaningful ... safeties don't really come out of position on short intermediate pass plays. Real PA, the kind that kills people, is when you can get over the top. 

    Chad never really did that in his career, and Branch is too old for that. Gasper himself wrote it well .... it's time for the Pats to stop pretending certain things that are common among the winning teams (elite pass rusher - at least one, and real outside threat) are just luxuries. 

    They make the margin for error so much larger on the short routes the offense feeds off of, and open seams for the RBs. 

    DeSean Jackson, I don't care about his attitude ... more his build. He is hurt all the time. He is the pre-eminent playmaker right now though. 

    Meachem would be fine ... Lloyd, Jackson both feel like pipe dreams to me. Any of the four would likely improve the team's versatility, and make Brady's job a million times easier. 


     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from NOISE. Show NOISE's posts

    Re: Vincent Jackson or Brandon Lloyd.. Who would you take?

    In response to "Re: Vincent Jackson or Brandon Lloyd.. Who would you take?": [QUOTE]Lloyd. Jackson has some character issues, but I'd go by price on these kinds of decisions when it comes down to it. I think Lloyd would be better and cheaper, due to the McDaniels leverage. Posted by RustyGriswold[/QUOTE] Totally agree here with rusty. If we only had WR as our only problem point then I'd say Jackson but we need to upgrade our D with a couple players there. So Lloyd as long as we snag other defensive players as well.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rocky. Show Rocky's posts

    Re: Vincent Jackson or Brandon Lloyd.. Who would you take?

    Wide receiver wishlist has Patriots fans aflutter


     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Vincent Jackson or Brandon Lloyd.. Who would you take?

    Colston sure would be nice, my list would be

    Colston
    Bowe
    Wallace
    Loyd
    Steve Johnson
    V-Jax(under achiever and one dimensional talent)
    Desean-Jax


    Then again I'd rather give the lowly Rams a 2nd rd pick for an aging Steven Jackson ala Corey Dillion and watch us run the ball and protect Brady as he is getting old and throwing more then ever.
     

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