Was waiving Price a mistake? 4 team claim him

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Was waiving Price a mistake? 4 team claim him

    They only I/R players they like and plan on bringing back. Bodden was injured and he was released.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Was waiving Price a mistake? 4 team claim him

    In Response to Re: Was waiving Price a mistake? 4 team claim him:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Was waiving Price a mistake? 4 team claim him : Once an athlete's confidence is damaged it is tough to restore especially at this level of competition Maybe that has something to do with it. .
    Posted by TSWFAN[/QUOTE]

    So if the guy goes somewhere else and pans out you can say "I told you so" and if he doesn't you can claim he would have been good if Brady hadn't damaged his confidence.  Either way it's Brady's fault.  Amazing...
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: Was waiving Price a mistake? 4 team claim him

    In Response to Re: Was waiving Price a mistake? 4 team claim him:
    [QUOTE]TSWFAN I'm with you. I think Brady has some blame on this one. Brady is extremely picky on his WR's and for some reason just doesn't develop young WR's like he did with Branch and Givens. If he doesn't have complete trust in the WR he won't even give them a chance. This isn't saying I want Brady gone, I don't want any other QB then Brady. But, I do think Brady needs to watch some film of himself when he first entered the league and how he spread the ball around. He needs to rediscover how to work young WR's into the team, whether that is extra work after practice or just giving them a couple more chances a game to make a play and gain some confidence. This is where I believe Brady's perfectionist style backfires a little. If the WR's aren't running the routes exactly as Brady sees how they should be run he just won't give them looks. In the end I think it really hinders a WR's development. Ok Babe let me have it.
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    Your not really telling the greatest QB to ever play the game how he should play the game?  Are you PatsEng?  3 Super Bowls, Countless records and Quickest to 100 wins.  I think he doing OK without your advise.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Was waiving Price a mistake? 4 team claim him

    In Response to Re: Was waiving Price a mistake? 4 team claim him:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Was waiving Price a mistake? 4 team claim him : Except Aaron and Gronk right? Those are both young guys that brady is passing to a ton. I dont think this is an issue of developing a young guy, I think its an issue of a young guy not developing the way you would expect. He couldnt get on the field over underwood, who is also a young guy.
    Posted by ChasaB[/QUOTE]

    With the exception that Gronk and Hernandez were his only options at TE. He had to give them looks which built his confidence in them.

    Yes the talent level of the WR's we drafted isn't at a high standard but at the same note I think Brady falls into a comfort zone and sometimes doesn't come out unless he has no option. Similar to how he use to lock onto Moss and force balls to him. With Gronk and Hernandez he had no other option but to integrate them into the system otherwise there was no other options. Gronk and Hernandez getting starting reps then built confidence with Brady.

    But, with the WR's look at the WR's he's built confidence with:

    • Branch and Givens, both came in when Brady was still forming an identity and would throw to whoever would help him also when the Pats had only Brown
    • Gaffney came in 06' when who was Brady's options? Basically it was Brown he had no other choice but to include another option
    • Welker, Moss, Stallworth. Other then Gaffney the Pats basically cleaned house in the WR core so they were all new and Brady's only options
    • Gronk and Hern came in with Crump so all were brand new and they received a number of starting snaps early in the year

    When Brady has no other choices but to throw to his options he eventually builds confidence in them. However, when he has established players in those spots the new players tend to not get any looks or reps. Now that's not a bad thing as I'd rather have Brady passing the ball to Welker then Ocho but that also means it's incredible hard for younger players to get reps or break into the line up. Remember Tate after Moss was traded. Everyone thought that was Tate's chance but he dropped a couple of balls and Brady stopped looking in his direction. Eventually Tate's snaps diminished and he was released. Now Tate's not a good WR maybe a #3 at best but it's clear as day when Brady doesn't trust a WR. They don't get looks, there snaps go down, and they are eventually released. That might also be why you see the bottom of the barrel teams hitting most on WR's. They get more in game reps and are allowed to fail which they learn and develop from. On a team like the Pats with established WR's they can't get enough reps which leads to mistakes on the few chances they get. Brady loses confidence in their abilities and stops giving them any looks unless forced to and in that way they never properly develop
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Was waiving Price a mistake? 4 team claim him

    In Response to Re: Was waiving Price a mistake? 4 team claim him:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Was waiving Price a mistake? 4 team claim him : Your not really telling the greatest QB to ever play the game how he should play the game?  Are you PatsEng?  3 Super Bowls, Countless records and Quickest to 100 wins.  I think he doing OK without your advise.
    Posted by tcal2-[/QUOTE]

    I knew this was coming. No I'm not telling the greatest QB ever how to do his job. What I'm saying is that because he's the greatest QB ever and because he demands perfect it hinders the development of younger receivers.

    That's the trade off you typically have. The more elite and vet a QB becomes the more comfort they build with their guys and the more they tend to exclude newer guys until they prove themselves. It's human nature. But when you have established players in front of them it leaves little room for younger players, who need reps to make mistakes and learn from. I mean if you were Brady and are winning a ton of games would you continue to throw to Welker and Branch or would you give looks and reps to younger players who are going to make mistakes. Given Brady's perfectionist ways (one of the reasons he's so good) if a young player isn't immediately to the standards Welker and Branch have set he doesn't give them reps and looks. In that way they can't develop and gain confidence with Brady. Having an Elite QB is a double edge sword in that manner. A great example is Manning with Wayne and Harrison. They had a number of young talented WR's that he never used until Harrison retired. Once he did Manning was forced to use Gracon and Gonzalez since Wayne was double teamed. He built up a confidence level with them and they developed but they made a ton of mistakes at first. Without Harrison getting older and retiring I'm not sure Gracon and Gonzalez would get the same reps and would have turned out to be the same players they are now.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Was waiving Price a mistake? 4 team claim him

    Good Rebuttal Eng!
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ChasaB. Show ChasaB's posts

    Re: Was waiving Price a mistake? 4 team claim him

    And yet Aaron drops the ball at least once a game, Brady still goes to him.

    Last year we had crumpler/hern/gronk. Crumpler was known as a pass catcher, but there was aaron and gronk doing most of the reception duty. They were NOT his only option, they were the option who Performed the best.

    Price and tate both had issues even getting on the field because they didnt show enough either in practice or on game day that they had what it took to do what brady wanted them to do.

    I think it was a combination of effort and trust, that caused them to get cut. Did price play special teams at all?
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Was waiving Price a mistake? 4 team claim him

    In Response to Re: Was waiving Price a mistake? 4 team claim him:
    [QUOTE]And yet Aaron drops the ball at least once a game, Brady still goes to him. Last year we had crumpler/hern/gronk. Crumpler was known as a pass catcher, but there was aaron and gronk doing most of the reception duty. They were NOT his only option, they were the option who Performed the best. Price and tate both had issues even getting on the field because they didnt show enough either in practice or on game day that they had what it took to do what brady wanted them to do. I think it was a combination of effort and trust, that caused them to get cut. Did price play special teams at all?
    Posted by ChasaB[/QUOTE]

    Chasa, I am not siding w/anyone, but you know dang well Crumpler was not a pass catching tight end when he came here. The last few years he was a beefed up run blocking tight end. He hasnt been a real pass catching tight end since his days with Vick in Atlanta. Bad example.

    Crump dropped that pass in the playoffs because it had been years since someone looked at him in the endzone and he was shown the door the next season...
     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Was waiving Price a mistake? 4 team claim him

    In Response to Re: Was waiving Price a mistake? 4 team claim him:
    [QUOTE]And yet Aaron drops the ball at least once a game, Brady still goes to him. Last year we had crumpler/hern/gronk. Crumpler was known as a pass catcher, but there was aaron and gronk doing most of the reception duty. They were NOT his only option, they were the option who Performed the best. Price and tate both had issues even getting on the field because they didnt show enough either in practice or on game day that they had what it took to do what brady wanted them to do. I think it was a combination of effort and trust, that caused them to get cut. Did price play special teams at all?
    Posted by ChasaB[/QUOTE]

    Crump at that point of his career was considered a blocking TE not a pass catching TE. Hernandez was considered the pass catching TE and if you remember Gronk was mainly kept in to block and Gronk had very limited receptions in the first half of they year. Once Hernandez was injured Gronk's look total reflected the lack of Hernandez.

    The thing to note is yes Hernandez had drops but Brady had no other TE's to toss to but to continue to go to Hernandez. Crump was a 3rd T most of the time and Gronk was the main blocking TE so Hernandez was the only onyl releasing for receptions

    But if you want to use practice everyone says Ocho is the best receiver in practice but why isn't he used more on gameday? Because Brady doesn't have the same confidence in him as he does with Branch and Welker yet every retired Vet I've heard from is that it's night and day with Ocho between practice and in game.

    Anyone who's played football will tell you practice reps and gameday reps are 2 completely different things. A QB can be buddy buddy with a WR in practice but unless he has game day confindence he won't give the WR looks. The only way to gain confidence is to perform on the game field but the lack of gameday reps leads to more mistakes.
     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Was waiving Price a mistake? 4 team claim him

    The main thing is Brady will work with you if u have potential. I agree he has a short fuse w/young guys, but he also said "I'd be dam if I let a rookie get in the way of our succes"  what this tells me is if they arent getting it early on, he will devote his attention back to who he has been throwing to.  He had zero patience w/Galloway and he was a vet, so while I see Engs point and even agree somewhat, I think the guys being brought in arent getting on page w/Brady and I think its harder than some think. Not really smarts, but maybe instinct related.

    Galloway was an old head who wasnt trying to learn anything new.

    This is why they like to get young guys who dont have any other NFL offense in their head, but when getting a young guy you should atleast go for a guy who played in a pro style offense , not foxboro high offense...
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Was waiving Price a mistake? 4 team claim him

    In Response to Re: Was waiving Price a mistake? 4 team claim him:
    [QUOTE]I con Response to Re: Was waiving Price a mistake? 4 team claim him : Totally agreed.   It's the same thing with Ocho.  Even if he is 33, he needs reps. It's why a backup goalie in hockey or a bench/role player in baseball is a tugh job. It's a hard to get rhythm when you barely see action.  I question this aspect too, because we see it with Price, Ocho and maybe now Underwood. Just use one player per game for 4 qtrs to see how he looks, instead of constant subbing. Terrible approach by o'brien.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKingII[/QUOTE]

    Well King it's the price of success really. That's why it's hard to maintain success not Brady's or O'Briens fault. When you have something that works you stick with it and the record shows that.

    The issue becomes that players get older or injured and then their backups don't have the proper reps to fill in or that younger guys never receive reps to develop.

    Usually there's a trade off as younger guys are going to make mistakes which could eventually lead to game altering plays. With bad teams not a big deal the young player learns and since they aren't a playoff team anyways it doesn't matter. That's how a young player grows. But, with a playoff team that mistake is magnified.

    It really is difficult to give young players reps to develop but there are times throughout the year they can. Usually the meaningless games at the end of the year, in blow outs, or against poorer teams. That's when you need to toss in those guys to get some meaningful reps and learning experiences and that's where I think we fail. Brady gets frustrated with the mistakes and O'Brien doesn't want to look bad so they never give them the opportunity to develop in that matter. But, that's the price you pay for having a successful team
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Was waiving Price a mistake? 4 team claim him

    In Response to Re: Was waiving Price a mistake? 4 team claim him:
    [QUOTE]The main thing is Brady will work with you if he has potential. I agree he has a short fuse w/young guys, but he also said "I'd be dam if I let a rookie get in the way of our succes"  what this tells me is if they arent getting it early on, he will devote his attention back to who he has been throwing to.  He had zero patience w/Galloway and he was a vet, so while I see Engs point and even agree somewhat, I think the guys being brought in arent getting on page w/Brady and I think its harder than some think. Not really smarts, but maybe instinct related. Galloway was an old head who wasnt trying to learn anything new. This is why they like to get young guys who dont have any other NFL offense in their head, but when getting a young guy you should atleast go for a guy who played in a pro style offense , not foxboro high offense...
    Posted by JayShizzle45[/QUOTE]

    That's part of what I'm talking about with Brady. He's not giving the players opportunities to make mistakes and develop. If they don't get it right away then he gives up on them, most of the time. He didn't do this early in his career which is what I'm faulting him on. No young player is going to get a system immediately and right away. They need time to make mistakes learn and adapt. Though I agree the level of talent from the WR's has to be improved on the same note Brady needs to give them time to improve. Very few WR come into the league and see instant success and even less come in and find instant success without making mistakes during that success
     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Was waiving Price a mistake? 4 team claim him

    In Response to Re: Was waiving Price a mistake? 4 team claim him:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Was waiving Price a mistake? 4 team claim him : Well King it's the price of success really. That's why it's hard to maintain success not Brady's or O'Briens fault. When you have something that works you stick with it and the record shows that. The issue becomes that players get older or injured and then their backups don't have the proper reps to fill in or that younger guys never receive reps to develop. Usually there's a trade off as younger guys are going to make mistakes which could eventually lead to game altering plays. With bad teams not a big deal the young player learns and since they aren't a playoff team anyways it doesn't matter. That's how a young player grows. But, with a playoff team that mistake is magnified. It really is difficult to give young players reps to develop but there are times throughout the year they can. Usually the meaningless games at the end of the year, in blow outs, or against poorer teams. That's when you need to toss in those guys to get some meaningful reps and learning experiences and that's where I think we fail. Brady gets frustrated with the mistakes and O'Brien doesn't want to look bad so they never give them the opportunity to develop in that matter. But, that's the price you pay for having a successful team
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]


    I agree and if the Brady knows how many Doug Gabriels came and went and B.B. knows he has a hard system, why did they let a guy who picked it up quick, was productive AND cheap walk out the door?

    J.Gaffeny signed for 4 yrs/10mill making exactly 2.5 mill every year.  We are paying Ocho 6 JUST for this year and payed Price over a million as well as Tate all because they didnt want to pay Gaffney???  Looks pretty dumb now!


    This is what I dont like. Show some loyalty to the right folks who work hard and deserve it.  You almost payed a rookie what Gaffney wanted and he was proven...
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from TSWFAN. Show TSWFAN's posts

    Re: Was waiving Price a mistake? 4 team claim him

    In Response to Re: Was waiving Price a mistake? 4 team claim him:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Was waiving Price a mistake? 4 team claim him : So if the guy goes somewhere else and pans out you can say "I told you so" and if he doesn't you can claim he would have been good if Brady hadn't damaged his confidence.  Either way it's Brady's fault.  Amazing...
    Posted by pcmIV[/QUOTE]

    pcmIV.... I'm Not blaming Brady. You said that. I,m just saying maybe he should have been put on the field. It couldn't cost anything to do that.  Is that hard to understand?
     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Was waiving Price a mistake? 4 team claim him

    In Response to Re: Was waiving Price a mistake? 4 team claim him:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Was waiving Price a mistake? 4 team claim him : pcmIV.... I'm Not blaming Brady. You said that. I,m just saying maybe he should have been put on the field. It couldn't cost anything to do that.  Is that hard to understand?
    Posted by TSWFAN[/QUOTE]

    In one of your previous posts you said Price wasn't seeing the field because Brady wasn't satisfied with him.  I don't see how you can say that not seeing the field damaged Price's confidence and made him suck and then say you aren't blaming Brady who according to you is the reason Price didn't see the field.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TSWFAN. Show TSWFAN's posts

    Re: Was waiving Price a mistake? 4 team claim him

    In Response to Re: Was waiving Price a mistake? 4 team claim him:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Was waiving Price a mistake? 4 team claim him : In one of your previous posts you said Price wasn't seeing the field because Brady wasn't satisfied with him.  I don't see how you can say that not seeing the field damaged Price's confidence and made him suck and then say you aren't blaming Brady who according to you is the reason Price didn't see the field.
    Posted by pcmIV[/QUOTE]

    pcmIV... I SAID I'M NOT BLAMING Brady. Are you obtuse. The coaching staff has input too. I was just wondering if the had put him on the field it couldn't have hurt.The issue is still there with Wideouts
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Was waiving Price a mistake? 4 team claim him

    In Response to Re: Was waiving Price a mistake? 4 team claim him:
    [QUOTE]After O'brian said they were going to work him into the Offense he essentially didn't see the field and was cut because Brady wasn't satisfied with him.
    Posted by TSWFAN[/QUOTE]

    You wrote this earlier.  You might think differently, but there aren't really many ways to interpret this statement.  I cannot read your mind, only your posts.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from TSWFAN. Show TSWFAN's posts

    Re: Was waiving Price a mistake? 4 team claim him

    In Response to Re: Was waiving Price a mistake? 4 team claim him:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Was waiving Price a mistake? 4 team claim him : You wrote this earlier.  You might think differently, but there aren't really many ways to interpret this statement.  I cannot read your mind, only your posts.
    Posted by pcmIV[/QUOTE]

    Peruse my first post and put me on ignore please.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from chrisakawoody. Show chrisakawoody's posts

    Re: Was waiving Price a mistake? 4 team claim him

    Here's is my impresson:

    1) O'Brien did not like Price.  Said Price was a dud in practices.

    2) When Price did get balls thrown to him, he made some key drops on what could have/should have been TDs.

    3) Price was always injured.

    4) Price had two years to show how he would or would not contribute.

    5) The Pats were losing centers faster than drunks lose $20 bills and they needed roster spots.  Who were they going to cut?  A DB? A D or O lineman? An LB?  They have been hit with injuries at all of those positions.  They were not going to cut a TE or RB, as all of those players are at least good.  That left WRs, at position of relative health.  Welker and Branch are major contributors.  Too much invested in Ocho, who has allegedly worked hard and has a history of major contribution for the Bengals, i.e. lots of potential to be dynamic by the play-offs  Edleman and Slater are too versatile, too talented on S/T, and not surpassed in WR talent by Price.  So Price had to go. 

    Good luck Price.


     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Was waiving Price a mistake? 4 team claim him

    V.Brown in S.D. looked ok on sunday(rook), and Kyle Williams is starting to come on for San Fran,drafted in 10' after Price. I think the difference is other teams NEED them to perform so they get chances in games to make mistakes(Torrey in B.more)

    and here , like you said if Wes and Gronk are healthy, Price never sees the field. I dont agree with this because practice can only tell you so much. What if Price is gamer who performs better on game days? How would we ever know? like Rusty said, he came in for one play in ONE game this year, dropped a bad Brady pass and then went into obscurity. Seems noone is checking w/Brady to see what he wants. Once again why Get a guy with a large learning curve and then not let him get on the field to learn????  I guess its because of Bradys comment, but games like the Colts would be perfect time to integrate and what did Ocho get? 2 Targets!!   Baffling to me!
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaBlade. Show DaBlade's posts

    Re: Was waiving Price a mistake? 4 team claim him

    The one position the Pat's have sucked at drafting is WR. I personally hope they break that cycle soon and draft one that is cant miss in round one this coming draft... Oklahoma State’s Justin Blackmon or Notre Dame's Michael Floyd are the two I would target if I was the Pats tobreak this rough patch. 
     

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