We are balanced.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: We are balanced.

    In Response to Re: We are balanced.:
    [QUOTE]Please stop feeding to the trolls...  They're using an age old technique called circular logic, it's incredibly popular in the political forum. The purpose is not to convince you of anything but rather to frustrate and instigate, to lead you around by the nose and lead you back to their flawed argument. By feeding the trolls you're encouraging them, they love it when their threads gather a lot of attention.
    Posted by wozzy[/QUOTE]

    Its a good point Wozzy but I can't believe that Prolate is a troll. I wouldn't spend so much time unless I believed I was talking with a Pats fan. But over all your right this is pointless.'

    When presented with facts they say you have no facts. When saying our game plan was poor, they counter with "You don't know more then BB". There is no purpose in continuing the debate.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from rochfan. Show rochfan's posts

    Re: We are balanced.

    Why does Danny Woodhead get carries ? What's his role in the running game ? He had almost as many carries as BJGE in the Super Bowl and was not as effective. 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from sporter81. Show sporter81's posts

    Re: We are balanced.

    In Response to Re: We are balanced.:
    [QUOTE]Please stop feeding to the trolls...  They're using an age old technique called circular logic, it's incredibly popular in the political forum. The purpose is not to convince you of anything but rather to frustrate and instigate, to lead you around by the nose and lead you back to their flawed argument. By feeding the trolls you're encouraging them, they love it when their threads gather a lot of attention.
    Posted by wozzy[/QUOTE]

    Wozzy you are exactly right, the way the argument is worded is flawed and meant to instigate. I am just as guilty though because I keep coming back to this thread and continue to feed the trolls. 

    I do agree with them on the point that the offense is so anemic against a good defense that the only way to win would be to hold that opponent under 17 points. This "balanced" offense can't put up more than 17 points.



     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: We are balanced.

    In Response to Re: We are balanced.:
    [QUOTE]You guys are hilarious. Most of what has been said was said with the agenda of excusing our offense from scoring 15.5 ppg int he last 2 SB's . Excusing our offense for passing 90 to 35 runs in our last 2 SB's. To counter my saying our offense is one dimensional and is the reason it has not worked well in the biggest games you whittle it down to me against BB?
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]


    Another load of illogical hooey from you. You state "our offense is one dimensional and is the reason it has not worked well in the biggest games". That is an ASSUMPTION. You don't know if we ran less and passed more that we wouldn't have scored more. It is total speculation on your part about what more running would have done. But you pose it as fact.

    You're trying to tell us that a running game that combined in 2 SBs for 3.24 yards a carry by our backs would have assured more scoring if we just did it more. That's idiotic.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: We are balanced.

    In Response to Re: We are balanced.:
    [QUOTE]? To say we must use the run game enough otherwise BB would have fixed it is a terrible way to debate. I could use that too and say, well you guys are all wrong about our defense because if it was broke then BB would fix it, so obviously our defense is great. See how that works?
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    More illogical hooey. Even most children have a better grasp of logic than this.

    Your examples are apples and oranges. The one case is about choice of strategy, the other isn't.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: We are balanced.

    In Response to Re: We are balanced.:
    [QUOTE]This RB had averaged over 4.5 ypc against the Giants twice and the Ravens in the post season yet only gets 10 carries per game ?
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    Ask BB, the guy who runs the team. You know, the guy you're not questioning about how he does things.
     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: We are balanced.


    Response..Pro he ran the ball 10 times to 41 passes. I could go drive by drive and say here and there but it is the basic premise that the run sets up the pass. Even Antowain with 26 carries for 83 yards WORKED. Please tell me what you think would have happened if BJGE got say 20 carries? Is it reasonable to suggest that we would have used more clock, is it reasonable to suggest at 4.4 ypc he would have been effective?

    Champ, I don't know what would have happened if BJGE got 20 carries, but when I look at what happened on each drive, I'm hard pressed to say where I would have handed him the ball more than what actually happened.  When I look at what actually happened on the drives, I just don't see how handing the ball to Benny more would have helped.  It's easy to say give him the ball more . . . but you have to look at the actual situations that arose during the game and when you do that, you don't see a whole lot of opportunities to involve him more.  You also see that they actually did involve him quite a bit. 

    I just think the details matter . . . and when you look at the details, you don't see a clear case that running more would have helped.  
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: We are balanced.

    In Response to Re: We are balanced.:
    [QUOTE]Response..Pro he ran the ball 10 times to 41 passes. I could go drive by drive and say here and there but it is the basic premise that the run sets up the pass. Even Antowain with 26 carries for 83 yards WORKED. Please tell me what you think would have happened if BJGE got say 20 carries? Is it reasonable to suggest that we would have used more clock, is it reasonable to suggest at 4.4 ypc he would have been effective? Champ, I don't know what would have happened if BJGE got 20 carries, but when I look at what happened on each drive, I'm hard pressed to say where I would have handed him the ball more than what actually happened.

    You would be hard pressed to say that because it goes against your agenda. 10 runs for 44 yards by your power back and 41 passes = no balance.


     When I look at what actually happened on the drives, I just don't see how handing the ball to Benny more would have helped.  It's easy to say give him the ball more . . . but you have to look at the actual situations that arose during the game and when you do that, you don't see a whole lot of opportunities to involve him more.  You also see that they actually did involve him quite a bit.  I just think the details matter . . . and when you look at the details, you don't see a clear case that running more would have helped.


    No YOU don't see that because you are ignoring what our past history tells us. Running the ball effective or not shows the defense they cannot cheat. Every year since 07 in the playoffs we pass over 2-1 ratio, we become one dimensional, and a team that is more talented offensively then they have ever been comes up short to the tune of 14 and 17 points scored in the last 2 SB's.

    When we called a heavy run game with less talent we scored more, not because the run game was dominant, but because we had 2 dimensions to the offense. Brady played better because a defense did not game plan for him alone. But you and Pezz would have us believe the defense is at fault for the offense's inability to score points??????

    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: We are balanced.

    In Response to Re: We are balanced.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: We are balanced. : Says the moron who can't name a GM in the cap era better than BB.  lmao You are currently IN an asylum, so we're all actually laughing at you.
    Posted by RustyGriswold[/QUOTE]

    When you say "we" you must be referring to the half dozen other nincompoops like yourself that think BB doesn't know as much as you on how to direct the team on game day.

    Maybe you haven't checked the other thread but the poll is now 75 favoring BB's coaching as opposed to 6 who think he is guiding the offense improperly, as you incessantly claim.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: We are balanced.

    In Response to Re: We are balanced.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: We are balanced. :No YOU don't see that because you are ignoring what our past history tells us. Running the ball effective or not shows the defense they cannot cheat. Every year since 07 in the playoffs we pass over 2-1 ratio, we become one dimensional, and a team that is more talented offensively then they have ever been comes up short to the tune of 14 and 17 points scored in the last 2 SB's.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    It seems odd BB doesn't understand your wisdom that we should run more so the opposing defense can't cheat. You would think the greatest coach of all-time would know at least as much as you, if not more. Apparently you don't think he does.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: We are balanced.

    In Response to Re: We are balanced.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: We are balanced. : It seems odd BB doesn't understand your wisdom that we should run more so the opposing defense can't cheat. You would think the greatest coach of all-time would know at least as much as you, if not more. Apparently you don't think he does.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    Great argument. Way to narrow it down to either I am right or BB is wrong.

    Oh then we have the "BB is a bad GM" crowd. But you wouldn't know about that would you? Imagine the stones on Patriot fans who think BB might not be God? The nerves of some people right big guy?
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxfan94. Show redsoxfan94's posts

    Re: We are balanced.

    obviously BB is a great coach babe, you dont need a poll to prove that
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: We are balanced.

    In Response to Re: We are balanced.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: We are balanced. : Its a good point Wozzy but I can't believe that Prolate is a troll. I wouldn't spend so much time unless I believed I was talking with a Pats fan. But over all your right this is pointless.' When presented with facts they say you have no facts. When saying our game plan was poor, they counter with "You don't know more then BB". There is no purpose in continuing the debate.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]


    You've presented no pertinent facts.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: We are balanced.

    In Response to Re: We are balanced.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: We are balanced. : Great argument. Way to narrow it down to either I am right or BB is wrong. Oh then we have the "BB is a bad GM" crowd. But you wouldn't know about that would you? Imagine the stones on Patriot fans who think BB might not be God? The nerves of some people right big guy?
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]


    Don't try to divert the conversation. Start a BB the GM thread and I will respond.

    You're the one who questions how BB runs the team on the field, not me.

    The facts are that our RBs averaged 3.24 yards a carry in the last 2 SBs. That's hardly anything a good HC would call for more of.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: We are balanced.

    In Response to Re: We are balanced.:
    [QUOTE]obviously BB is a great coach babe, you dont need a poll to prove that
    Posted by redsoxfan94[/QUOTE]

    Then why the vocal minority that keeps questioning how he runs the team?
     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: We are balanced.

    You would be hard pressed to say that because it goes against your agenda. 10 runs for 44 yards by your power back and 41 passes = no balance. 

    And you don't have your own agenda?  At least I'm looking at the play-by-play to understand exactly what happened in the game.  You just keep repeating meaningless generalized statistics and appealing to history.  If I have an agenda, at least I'm supporting it by what actually happened in the game.  You refuse to even look . . .  so to help, here are the drives after the safety:

    Here's what happened in the Pats second drive (after the safety on the play action pass with Benny in the backfield--all running plays and passes to running backs are in red):

    1-10-NE 29 (3:18) B.Green-Ellis left end to NE 28 for -1 yards (A.Ross).

    2-11-NE 28 (2:35) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short left to B.Green-Ellis to NE 35 for 7 yards (L.Joseph).

    3-4-NE 35 (1:59) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short middle to D.Branch to 50 for 15 yards (K.Phillips). P1

    1-10-50 (1:25) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short left to W.Welker pushed ob at NYG 31 for 19 yards (M.Boley). P2

    1-10-NYG 31 (1:07) (No Huddle, Shotgun) B.Green-Ellis right guard to NYG 27 for 4 yards (C.Blackburn).

    2-6-NYG 27 (:25) W.Welker left end to NYG 17 for 10 yards (A.Ross).

    1-10-NYG 17 (15:00) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short right to A.Hernandez to NYG 15 for 2 yards (C.Blackburn).

    2-8-NYG 15 (14:36) (No Huddle, Shotgun) B.Green-Ellis left guard to NYG 11 for 4 yards (C.Blackburn).

    3-4-NYG 11 (13:56) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass incomplete short right to A.Hernandez (J.Pierre-Paul).

    4-4-NYG 11 (13:52) S.Gostkowski 29 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-D.Aiken, Holder-Z.Mesko.



    Were they not trying to establish the run with Benny there?  


    Here's the next drive--a Woodhead drive--not Benny, but they still tried to run (probably should have passed, though, on second down):


     

    1-10-NE 20 (10:00) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass incomplete short left to A.Hernandez (J.Pierre-Paul).

    2-10-NE 20 (9:55) (Run formation) D.Woodhead left tackle to NE 23 for 3 yards (C.Blackburn; L.Joseph).

    3-7-NE 23 (9:12) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short right to W.Welker to NE 29 for 6 yards (J.Williams) [O.Umenyiora].

    4-1-NE 29 (8:33) Z.Mesko punts 48 yards to NYG 23, Center-D.Aiken, fair catch by W.Blackmon.


    Here's the next two, which I assume you're not going to complain about since they both resulted in TDs:

    1-10-NE 4 (4:03) (Shotgun) PENALTY on NE-L.Mankins, False Start, 2 yards, enforced at NE 4 - No Play.

    1-12-NE 2 (4:03) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short left to W.Welker to NE 9 for 7 yards (D.Grant).

    2-5-NE 9 (3:34) (Shotgun) D.Woodhead up the middle to NE 15 for 6 yards (M.Boley). R4

    1-10-NE 15 (3:01) T.Brady pass short right to R.Gronkowski to NE 35 for 20 yards (K.Phillips). P5

    1-10-NE 35 (2:32) (No Huddle, Shotgun) D.Woodhead up the middle to NE 39 for 4 yards (R.Bernard).

    Two-Minute Warning

    2-6-NE 39 (2:00) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short left to A.Hernandez to NE 49 for 10 yards (M.Boley). P6

    1-10-NE 49 (1:40) (No Huddle, Shotgun) T.Brady pass short right to A.Hernandez to NYG 43 for 8 yards (A.Rolle).

    2-2-NYG 43 (1:20) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short left to D.Woodhead to NYG 36 for 7 yards (A.Rolle).

    PENALTY on NE-B.Waters, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at NYG 43 - No Play.

    2-12-NE 47 (1:12) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short right to A.Hernandez pushed ob at NYG 45 for 8 yards (M.Boley).

    3-4-NYG 45 (1:05) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short right to A.Hernandez pushed ob at NYG 33 for 12 yards (M.Boley) [A.Rolle]. P7

    1-10-NYG 33 (1:01) (Shotgun) D.Woodhead up the middle to NYG 32 for 1 yard (M.Boley).

    2-9-NYG 32 (:38) (No Huddle, Shotgun) T.Brady pass short left to W.Welker to NYG 22 for 10 yards (A.Ross; K.Phillips). P8

    Timeout #1 by NE at 00:29.

    1-10-NYG 22 (:29) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short left to D.Woodhead ran ob at NYG 11 for 11 yards. P9

    1-10-NYG 11 (:24) (No Huddle, Shotgun) T.Brady pass short middle to D.Woodhead to NYG 3 for 8 yards (M.Boley).

    Penalty on NYG-O.Umenyiora, Defensive Offside, declined.

    2-2-NYG 3 (:18) (Shotgun) D.Woodhead right guard to NYG 4 for -1 yards (J.Pierre-Paul).

    Timeout #2 by NE at 00:15.

    3-3-NYG 4 (:15) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short left to D.Woodhead for 4 yards, TOUCHDOWN. P10

    S.Gostkowski extra point is GOOD, Center-D.Aiken, Holder-Z.Mesko.


    AND

     

    1-10-NE 21 (14:54) T.Brady pass deep left to C.Ochocinco ran ob at NE 42 for 21 yards. P11

    1-10-NE 42 (14:30) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short middle to B.Green-Ellis to 50 for 8 yards (M.Boley; C.Blackburn).

    2-2-50 (14:00) B.Green-Ellis right end pushed ob at NYG 33 for 17 yards (K.Phillips). R12

    1-10-NYG 33 (13:22) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short left to W.Welker to NYG 28 for 5 yards (D.Grant).

    2-5-NYG 28 (12:54) (No Huddle) D.Woodhead left tackle to NYG 24 for 4 yards (O.Umenyiora; D.Grant).

    3-1-NYG 24 (12:27) (Run formation) B.Green-Ellis left tackle to NYG 20 for 4 yards (K.Phillips). R13

    1-10-NYG 20 (11:55) (No Huddle, Shotgun) T.Brady pass short left to W.Welker to NYG 12 for 8 yards (A.Rolle).

    2-2-NYG 12 (11:25) (No Huddle, Shotgun) T.Brady pass short left to A.Hernandez for 12 yards, TOUCHDOWN.


    Here's the next--starting with a hand off to Benny maybe didn't work so well, did it?


    (6:37) B.Green-Ellis right end to NE 19 for 2 yards (C.Blackburn). NYG-J.Pierre-Paul was injured during the play.

    His return is Probable.

    1-10-NE 17

    2-8-NE 19 (6:12) (Run formation) T.Brady pass incomplete short right to B.Green-Ellis.

    3-8-NE 19 (6:12) (Shotgun) T.Brady sacked at NE 15 for -4 yards (J.Tuck).

    4-12-NE 15 (6:12) Z.Mesko punts 43 yards to NYG 42, Center-D.Aiken. W.Blackmon to NE 48 for 10 yards (M.Slater).

     

    Enough Benny there for you?  And how 'bout this (the next one)--interception was a problem, but Benny was hardly ignored:

     

     

    1-10-NE 20 (:35) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass incomplete short right to A.Hernandez (M.Boley).

    2-10-NE 20 (:31) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short left to D.Branch pushed ob at NE 31 for 11 yards (D.Grant). P15

    1-10-NE 31 (:01) (Shotgun) B.Green-Ellis up the middle to NE 38 for 7 yards (R.Bernard).

     

    (15:00) B.Green-Ellis left tackle to NE 43 for 5 yards (M.Boley). R16

    (14:31) (No Huddle, Shotgun) T.Brady pass deep left intended for R.Gronkowski INTERCEPTED by C.Blackburn

    [J.Pierre-Paul] at NYG 8. C.Blackburn to NYG 8 for no gain (R.Gronkowski).

     

    And finally this:

     

    1-10-NE 8 (9:24) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass incomplete short middle to A.Hernandez [L.Joseph].

    2-10-NE 8 (9:19) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short right to W.Welker to NE 13 for 5 yards (J.Williams).

    3-5-NE 13 (8:35) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short right to D.Woodhead to NE 32 for 19 yards (D.Grant). P17

    (7:48) B.Green-Ellis left end to NE 35 for 3 yards (J.Pierre-Paul). NYG-A.Rolle was injured during the play. His

    return is Probable.

    1-10-NE 32

    2-7-NE 35 (7:22) (Shotgun) W.Welker left end to NE 46 for 11 yards (K.Phillips). R18

    1-10-NE 46 (6:36) D.Woodhead left tackle to NE 47 for 1 yard (J.Tuck).

    2-9-NE 47 (6:05) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short right to R.Gronkowski to NYG 47 for 6 yards (P.Amukamara).

    3-3-NYG 47 (5:22) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short left to A.Hernandez to NYG 43 for 4 yards (M.Boley). P19

    1-10-NYG 43 (4:40) (Run formation) B.Green-Ellis up the middle to NYG 44 for -1 yards (C.Canty).

    2-11-NYG 44 (4:06) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass incomplete deep left to W.Welker.

    3-11-NYG 44 (4:00) T.Brady pass incomplete deep middle to D.Branch (C.Webster).

    4-11-NYG 44 (3:53) Z.Mesko punts 32 yards to NYG 12, Center-D.Aiken, fair catch by W.Blackmon.

     

    It was going so well till they handed off to Benny on first down.  

     

    The only two drives I left off of this were (1) the one-play safety drive and (2) the 57 second drive at the end of the game which--by necessity--was all passes.  You wouldn't run Benny on that last drive would you?

     

    So there, I did your work for you.  Now stop telling me I'm biased and tell me what you'd change.  Seems to me that the backs were pretty involved in this game--at least up until the 57-second end-of-game drive. The game wasn't the unbalanced game you're claiming it was. The final statistics were simply skewed by one last minute drive that by necessity was all passes.  

     


     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: We are balanced.

    But you and Pezz would have us believe the defense is at fault for the offense's inability to score points??????

    Champ
    The idea of ball control and shortening games has been around a long, long time. It has been used over and over as a way to stifle a high powered offense, such as the Pats as it keeps them off the field.  Keeping them off the field eliminates scoring chances.
    Who is responsible for stopping a team from doing this?  That would be the D.
    If the D can't get the ball back then they failed.  It's that simple.
    Parcells execution of this in SB XXV is another perfect example.
    Where do you think Coughlin learned and apparently mastered it?
    Luckily not all teams have the guns to pull it off, but the Jints do.  This is how they have been killing high powered offenses.  They are fighting offenses with offense, as well as with their D.

    The following is a critique of SB XXV.
    I gave you a quote from Parcells himself saying the plan was to shorten the game. (note they nearly kept the Pats off the field for as long as the Bills)
    My OPINION is not crap or lunacy. It's an opinion based on observation and history.  The jints have beaten the Pats exactly the same way for the past 3 games.  The solution is to assemble a D that can stop it.

    But to the credit of Parcells and his exceptional coaching staff, the Giants devised the perfect game plan to beat the Bills. On offense, they shortened the game with a ball-control, smash-mouth attack that kept the Bills – who scored 95 points in two AFC playoff wins – off the field for more than 40 minutes of game clock, a Super Bowl record that still stands today

    Bob Benz, assistant sports editor for The Leader, can be reached at rbenz@the-leader.com
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: We are balanced.

    A little messy but my responses are under lined. This was fun.



    1-10-NE 29 (3:18) B.Green-Ellis left end to NE 28 for -1 yards (A.Ross).

    2-11-NE 28 (2:35) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short left to B.Green-Ellis to NE 35 for 7 yards (L.Joseph).

    3-4-NE 35 (1:59) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short middle to D.Branch to 50 for 15 yards (K.Phillips). P1

    1-10-50 (1:25) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short left to W.Welker pushed ob at NYG 31 for 19 yards (M.Boley). P2

    1-10-NYG 31 (1:07) (No Huddle, Shotgun) B.Green-Ellis right guard to NYG 27 for 4 yards (C.Blackburn).

    2-6-NYG 27 (:25) W.Welker left end to NYG 17 for 10 yards (A.Ross).

    1-10-NYG 17 (15:00) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short right to A.Hernandez to NYG 15 for 2 yards (C.Blackburn).

    2-8-NYG 15 (14:36) (No Huddle, Shotgun) B.Green-Ellis left guard to NYG 11 for 4 yards (C.Blackburn).

    3-4-NYG 11 (13:56) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass incomplete short right to A.Hernandez (J.Pierre-Paul).

    4-4-NYG 11 (13:52) S.Gostkowski 29 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-D.Aiken, Holder-Z.Mesko.



    Were they not trying to establish the run with Benny there?  Yes it appeared they learned the lesson of going deep the 1st play in front of our own goal. One of the worst play calls to start a SB that I can remember, oh but you will drum it up to lack of talent, and not bad play calling right? lol.


    Too bad they went away from this style for all but 1 more drive when Benny went for 7 and 5 only to throw a pick 40 yards down field when playing with a lead and needing to burn clock. sigh.


    Here's the next drive--a Woodhead drive--not Benny, but they still tried to run (probably should have passed, though, on second down):


     

    1-10-NE 20 (10:00) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass incomplete short left to A.Hernandez (J.Pierre-Paul).Run Benny

    2-10-NE 20 (9:55) (Run formation) D.Woodhead left tackle to NE 23 for 3 yards (C.Blackburn; L.Joseph).Run Benny

    3-7-NE 23 (9:12) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short right to W.Welker to NE 29 for 6 yards (J.Williams) [O.Umenyiora].Run Benny

    4-1-NE 29 (8:33) Z.Mesko punts 48 yards to NYG 23, Center-D.Aiken, fair catch by W.Blackmon.


    Here's the next two, which I assume you're not going to complain about since they both resulted in TDs: Sure I am. Run Him more on this drive as well, eat up clock, keep our D off the field. This drive kept us in this up tempo pss heavy offense. How long could it work against a team that has proven they can limit it? Despite this drive leading us to points, it is this offensive philosophy that turns us into a one dimensional team.

    1-10-NE 4 (4:03) (Shotgun) PENALTY on NE-L.Mankins, False Start, 2 yards, enforced at NE 4 - No Play.

    1-12-NE 2 (4:03) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short left to W.Welker to NE 9 for 7 yards (D.Grant).

    2-5-NE 9 (3:34) (Shotgun) D.Woodhead up the middle to NE 15 for 6 yards (M.Boley). R4

    1-10-NE 15 (3:01) T.Brady pass short right to R.Gronkowski to NE 35 for 20 yards (K.Phillips). P5

    1-10-NE 35 (2:32) (No Huddle, Shotgun) D.Woodhead up the middle to NE 39 for 4 yards (R.Bernard).

    Two-Minute Warning

    2-6-NE 39 (2:00) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short left to A.Hernandez to NE 49 for 10 yards (M.Boley). P6

    1-10-NE 49 (1:40) (No Huddle, Shotgun) T.Brady pass short right to A.Hernandez to NYG 43 for 8 yards (A.Rolle).

    2-2-NYG 43 (1:20) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short left to D.Woodhead to NYG 36 for 7 yards (A.Rolle).

    PENALTY on NE-B.Waters, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at NYG 43 - No Play.

    2-12-NE 47 (1:12) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short right to A.Hernandez pushed ob at NYG 45 for 8 yards (M.Boley).

    3-4-NYG 45 (1:05) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short right to A.Hernandez pushed ob at NYG 33 for 12 yards (M.Boley) [A.Rolle]. P7

    1-10-NYG 33 (1:01) (Shotgun) D.Woodhead up the middle to NYG 32 for 1 yard (M.Boley).

    2-9-NYG 32 (:38) (No Huddle, Shotgun) T.Brady pass short left to W.Welker to NYG 22 for 10 yards (A.Ross; K.Phillips). P8

    Timeout #1 by NE at 00:29.

    1-10-NYG 22 (:29) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short left to D.Woodhead ran ob at NYG 11 for 11 yards. P9

    1-10-NYG 11 (:24) (No Huddle, Shotgun) T.Brady pass short middle to D.Woodhead to NYG 3 for 8 yards (M.Boley).

    Penalty on NYG-O.Umenyiora, Defensive Offside, declined.

    2-2-NYG 3 (:18) (Shotgun) D.Woodhead right guard to NYG 4 for -1 yards (J.Pierre-Paul).

    Timeout #2 by NE at 00:15.

    3-3-NYG 4 (:15) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short left to D.Woodhead for 4 yards, TOUCHDOWN. P10

    S.Gostkowski extra point is GOOD, Center-D.Aiken, Holder-Z.Mesko.


    AND

     

    1-10-NE 21 (14:54) T.Brady pass deep left to C.Ochocinco ran ob at NE 42 for 21 yards. P11

    1-10-NE 42 (14:30) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short middle to B.Green-Ellis to 50 for 8 yards (M.Boley; C.Blackburn).

    2-2-50 (14:00) B.Green-Ellis right end pushed ob at NYG 33 for 17 yards (K.Phillips). R12

    1-10-NYG 33 (13:22) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short left to W.Welker to NYG 28 for 5 yards (D.Grant).

    2-5-NYG 28 (12:54) (No Huddle) D.Woodhead left tackle to NYG 24 for 4 yards (O.Umenyiora; D.Grant).

    3-1-NYG 24 (12:27) (Run formation) B.Green-Ellis left tackle to NYG 20 for 4 yards (K.Phillips). R13

    1-10-NYG 20 (11:55) (No Huddle, Shotgun) T.Brady pass short left to W.Welker to NYG 12 for 8 yards (A.Rolle).

    2-2-NYG 12 (11:25) (No Huddle, Shotgun) T.Brady pass short left to A.Hernandez for 12 yards, TOUCHDOWN.


    Here's the next--starting with a hand off to Benny maybe didn't work so well, did it?


    (6:37) B.Green-Ellis right end to NE 19 for 2 yards (C.Blackburn). NYG-J.Pierre-Paul was injured during the play.

    His return is Probable. Didn't work so well because we hadn't used Benny much at all the previous 2 drives then we our open book offense delivers the play by running him on 1st out of our run formation. He was subbed again which is the point of this debate. Keep him in more and we are harder to defend against. I notice you didn't comment on his 17 yard run. Worked pretty well didn't it, perhaps with 10 more caries he breaks off another big run? Sound logic I would say.

    1-10-NE 17

    2-8-NE 19 (6:12) (Run formation) T.Brady pass incomplete short right to B.Green-Ellis.Run Benny again. pick up 4 yards, get a more managable 3rd down

    3-8-NE 19 (6:12) (Shotgun) T.Brady sacked at NE 15 for -4 yards (J.Tuck).Run Benny again, would they have ever expected this? No. Pretty sure they expected a shotgun which is why Brady was sacked

    4-12-NE 15 (6:12) Z.Mesko punts 43 yards to NYG 42, Center-D.Aiken. W.Blackmon to NE 48 for 10 yards (M.Slater).

     

    Enough Benny there for you?  And how 'bout this (the next one)--interception was a problem, but Benny was hardly ignored:

     

     

    1-10-NE 20 (:35) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass incomplete short right to A.Hernandez (M.Boley).Run Benny

    2-10-NE 20 (:31) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short left to D.Branch pushed ob at NE 31 for 11 yards (D.Grant). P15

    1-10-NE 31 (:01) (Shotgun) B.Green-Ellis up the middle to NE 38 for 7 yards (R.Bernard).

     

    (15:00) B.Green-Ellis left tackle to NE 43 for 5 yards (M.Boley). R16

    (14:31) (No Huddle, Shotgun) T.Brady pass deep left intended for R.Gronkowski INTERCEPTED by C.Blackburn

    [J.Pierre-Paul] at NYG 8. C.Blackburn to NYG 8 for no gain (R.Gronkowski).4 receivers went 20 yards down field we had a lead and needed to kill clock.It was this type of offensive mentality that lad to us losing another SB WHY DIDN"T WE RUN BENNY AGAIN? But play calling and offensive philosphy in general was nbot a problem? Sure man.

     

    And finally this:

     

    1-10-NE 8 (9:24) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass incomplete short middle to A.Hernandez [L.Joseph].Run Benny

    2-10-NE 8 (9:19) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short right to W.Welker to NE 13 for 5 yards (J.Williams).Run Benny

    3-5-NE 13 (8:35) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short right to D.Woodhead to NE 32 for 19 yards (D.Grant). P17

    (7:48) B.Green-Ellis left end to NE 35 for 3 yards (J.Pierre-Paul). NYG-A.Rolle was injured during the play. His

    return is Probable.

    1-10-NE 32

    2-7-NE 35 (7:22) (Shotgun) W.Welker left end to NE 46 for 11 yards (K.Phillips). R18

    1-10-NE 46 (6:36) D.Woodhead left tackle to NE 47 for 1 yard (J.Tuck).Run Benny

    2-9-NE 47 (6:05) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short right to R.Gronkowski to NYG 47 for 6 yards (P.Amukamara).Run Benny it was a completion but if not caught the clock stops AGAIN

    3-3-NYG 47 (5:22) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short left to A.Hernandez to NYG 43 for 4 yards (M.Boley). P193rd 3 Run it gasp

    1-10-NYG 43 (4:40) (Run formation) B.Green-Ellis up the middle to NYG 44 for -1 yards (C.Canty).Here is a thought, pehaps if had used the power back more often this open book look would not have led to the Ginats stacking the line and Mankins getting blown up by Canty to give up a 1 yard loss. This has nothing to do with Benny's talent, this has to do with the predictability of the offense to this point, but I wouldn't wait for you to admit this is 100% true. Even though you know it is.

    2-11-NYG 44 (4:06) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass incomplete deep left to W.Welker.Well lets see we are playing with the lead adn need to use clock to put pressure on NY's offense so how about a 4 wr spread draw play to Benny? I bet it catches the ginats off guard and we get at least 5-6 yards which leaves a more managable 3rd n 5 and keeps the clock going.

    3-11-NYG 44 (4:00) T.Brady pass incomplete deep middle to D.Branch (C.Webster).

    4-11-NYG 44 (3:53) Z.Mesko punts 32 yards to NYG 12, Center-D.Aiken, fair catch by W.Blackmon.

     

    In order to use the run game more this play by play would have been different. You would have to rewrite history which is why I have not gone through play by play to show you beofre. It is a futile point, buit I did it to appease you anyway.

     

    The Giants offense used the game plan that we should have and it ended up being just enough. They wored down the defense and our offense using little clock played rightr into the Giants game plan.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: We are balanced.

    In Response to Re: We are balanced.:
    [QUOTE]But you and Pezz would have us believe the defense is at fault for the offense's inability to score points?????? Champ The idea of ball control and shortening games has been around a long, long time. It has been used over and over as a way to stifle a high powered offense, such as the Pats as it keeps them off the field.  Keeping them off the field eliminates scoring chances. Who is responsible for stopping a team from doing this?  That would be the D. If the D can't get the ball back then they failed.  It's that simple. Parcells execution of this in SB XXV is another perfect example. Where do you think Coughlin learned and apparently mastered it? Luckily not all teams have the guns to pull it off, but the Jints do.  This is how they have been killing high powered offenses.  They are fighting offenses with offense, as well as with their D. The following is a critique of SB XXV. I gave you a quote from Parcells himself saying the plan was to shorten the game. (note they nearly kept the Pats off the field for as long as the Bills) My OPINION is not crap or lunacy. It's an opinion based on observation and history.  The jints have beaten the Pats exactly the same way for the past 3 games.  The solution is to assemble a D that can stop it. But to the credit of Parcells and his exceptional coaching staff, the Giants devised the perfect game plan to beat the Bills. On offense, they shortened the game with a ball-control, smash-mouth attack that kept the Bills – who scored 95 points in two AFC playoff wins – off the field for more than 40 minutes of game clock, a Super Bowl record that still stands today Bob Benz, assistant sports editor for The Leader, can be reached at rbenz@the-leader.com
    Posted by pezz4pats[/QUOTE]


    lol, right you are, so why didn't we use that game plan againt the Giants high powered offense, especially when we had the defense with more issues?
     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: We are balanced.

    In Response to Re: We are balanced.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: We are balanced. : lol, right you are, so why didn't we use that game plan againt the Giants high powered offense, especially when we had the defense with more issues?
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    Because the jints D was better at stopping the Pats O than the Pats D was at stopping the jints O.
    This was established very early.  The Pats didn't even get the ball back (after the safety) until there was 4 minutes left in the first quarter and this trend happened throughout the whole game. (The same thing happened in SB42 without a safety, where the jints had the ball for 10 mins, on their 1st possession)
    Imagine if before and after the safety, the Pats D had gotten the ball back within a reasonable amount of time.  They would have not lost 11 minutes of TOP right off the bat.  If they had gotten the ball back even close to average, it would have taken 5 minutes for their first 2 drives instead of 11 (which is horrendous).  Imagine if they had forced a 3 & out or even a 6 & out before and after the safety or before and after the pic.  It's a different ball game.  Would it not be?
    That is all I am saying.
    There's really no right or wrong here as there were obviously problems on both sides of the ball. The fore mentioned safety and pic, being some of them.
    I just happen to think that the D's inability to get the ball back within a reasonable amount of time (throughout the whole game) was more of a factor in their loss, than a pic or a int or their inability to run.
    They are all valid reasons, it's just a matter of where you place your emphasis.
     

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