We havent tried to establish a running game since Corey Dillon's last season

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from dshort3333. Show dshort3333's posts

    We havent tried to establish a running game since Corey Dillon's last season

    I read every sports atricle I can and watch every sports how for that matter too. And recently Christian Fauria made a valid point that seems to be overlooked far too often. But first. The Patriots are a throw first offense and have been since Corey Dillon's last season here. Brady was a much younger QB then and didnt have the wide receivers he has had for the last three years. Second, Maroney came into the league with bone chips in his shoulder and was never really 100% until this offseason. Last year he tried playing with a broken shoulder and people questioned his toughness. He was one of the best backs in college while splitting carries with Marion Barber. Now the Cowboys have tried establishing the run over the last three years and have done so (especially with defenses geared to stop T.O.).  Point is this.. Maroney is the best back on the team and needs 20-30 carries a game to prove that. Running backs need a few carries to get a feel for the defense and how they are flowing to the ball and how the offensive lineman are handling their blocking assignments. Until Maroney gets a chance as a Feature back to run the ball it is unfair to say he is a bust. His average yards per carry is over 4 that should say something.
       By running the ball more it will loosen up the defense for easier play action and also extend the life of Brady's arm.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: We havent tried to establish a running game since Corey Dillon's last season

    While I agree the running game has not been good thus far, it has been pretty good without Dillon. We did win with Antwain Smith.

    and:   http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&offensiveStatisticCategory=RUSHING&conference=ALL&role=TM&season=2008&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=RUSHING_YARDS_PER_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1

    That says we finished sixth behind Chester Taylor and some guy named Adrian Peterson (whoever the hell that is).

    I do agree we need a clock killer to put the game away and establish the run. At 6'1 235lbs Jonathan Dwyer might fit the bill. I have always felt that Maroney was an edge/sweep/outside runner rather than a between the tackles guy. Dwyer strikes me as the type of back that would punish the D Line and move the pile.  The Pats essentially have a running back by commitee when everyone is healthy so its hard to see anyone as "the feature back". Mendenall/Parker/Moore ; Bradshaw/Jacobs ....there is always some one to shoulder the load/share carries and win Super Bowls.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from patsfaninsatx. Show patsfaninsatx's posts

    Re: We havent tried to establish a running game since Corey Dillon's last season

    I agree that NE hasnt established the run, even though they are 6th in the league.  But as long as brady is QB i dont see that happening.  Ever since moss&welker got here he has been a passing machine.  He will continue to throw 34-45 times a game.


    I would like for them to be extremely tough on both sides of the ball with the running game.  But I think that Welker is one of our running backs when he runs that slot.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from user_439198. Show user_439198's posts

    Re: We havent tried to establish a running game since Corey Dillon's last season

    In Response to We havent tried to establish a running game since Corey Dillon's last season:
    I read every sports atricle I can and watch every sports how for that matter too. And recently Christian Fauria made a valid point that seems to be overlooked far too often. But first. The Patriots are a throw first offense and have been since Corey Dillon's last season here. Brady was a much younger QB then and didnt have the wide receivers he has had for the last three years. Second, Maroney came into the league with bone chips in his shoulder and was never really 100% until this offseason. Last year he tried playing with a broken shoulder and people questioned his toughness. He was one of the best backs in college while splitting carries with Marion Barber. Now the Cowboys have tried establishing the run over the last three years and have done so (especially with defenses geared to stop T.O.).  Point is this.. Maroney is the best back on the team and needs 20-30 carries a game to prove that. Running backs need a few carries to get a feel for the defense and how they are flowing to the ball and how the offensive lineman are handling their blocking assignments. Until Maroney gets a chance as a Feature back to run the ball it is unfair to say he is a bust. His average yards per carry is over 4 that should say something.    By running the ball more it will loosen up the defense for easier play action and also extend the life of Brady's arm.
    Posted by dshort3333


    Funny thread that in 2008 the patriots had the highest rushing yards and avg since 1985 .After running for more yards in 23 yds you are saying we have not had a real running game since 06

    Also,dillion ran in a frozen natural grass of NE where speed is reduced compared to the turf we use. Footing is bad for defenders. Now the same dillion will be ineffective as in turf the defence foothold and speed will not be dimished.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from futbal. Show futbal's posts

    Re: We havent tried to establish a running game since Corey Dillon's last season

    Man I loved watching Corey Dillon run downhill; he was not afraid of contact was he? He could cut but he didn't dance.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ewhite1065. Show ewhite1065's posts

    Re: We havent tried to establish a running game since Corey Dillon's last season

    The running game we have now seems to be quite different from what we had when Dillon was in town. They handed the ball to Dillon like 23 times a game and he was at his best in the 4th quarter. If we hand the Ball to Maroney 23 times a game we're screwed. Our running game has to almost be done by surprise with draws out of the shotgun. I was encouraged with Taylor and Morris but we'll have to see if either of those 2 will be coming back. Our most productive offense is with 4 wide anyway but I want Fred Taylor back to even it out.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ehop14. Show Ehop14's posts

    Re: We havent tried to establish a running game since Corey Dillon's last season

    I really like the idea of a RB tandem... JohnHannahrulz mentioned Jacobs/Bradshaw, but you can also look at Williams/Stewart in Carolina, Brown/Williams in Miami, Jones/Washington in New York (Jets), and Tomlinson/Sproles in San Diego. I really like Jonathan Dwyer, but when could we get him? Would he fall to the 2nd round?
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ohyes. Show ohyes's posts

    Re: We havent tried to establish a running game since Corey Dillon's last season

    A true run blocking TE or two? We don't have'em. Kyle Brady was the last one @ NE. Our O-line is good @ getting out on blocks @ the second level by letting D linemen slide by. That's what they do besides pass block. BB always uses players to give them the best chance to succeed as a team. Why force players into what is not there strongest points? That's why players leave here to go onto not squat.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: We havent tried to establish a running game since Corey Dillon's last season

    It's not the play it's the player.  If it's a good defense and you need points, give the ball to Tom Brady. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: We havent tried to establish a running game since Corey Dillon's last season

    I wonder if people know that we are in the upper half in running yards (14th) in the league? When Fred Taylor comes back the running game will be back to form, he was working out quite well for us. 


    He got his injury out of the way and Belichick believes that he will be back by playoff time, which leaves guys like Maroney & Benny to gain running experience.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ewhite1065. Show ewhite1065's posts

    Re: We havent tried to establish a running game since Corey Dillon's last season

    In Response to Re: We havent tried to establish a running game since Corey Dillon's last season:
    A true run blocking TE or two? We don't have'em. Kyle Brady was the last one @ NE. Our O-line is good @ getting out on blocks @ the second level by letting D linemen slide by. That's what they do besides pass block. BB always uses players to give them the best chance to succeed as a team. Why force players into what is not there strongest points? That's why players leave here to go onto not squat.
    Posted by ohyes


    Exactly, You're right on the mark...This team is a passing offense. 4 wide and the shotgun in a no huddle offense is where we are best. We just need a little run to keep it honest.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BTownExpress. Show BTownExpress's posts

    Re: We havent tried to establish a running game since Corey Dillon's last season

    In Response to We havent tried to establish a running game since Corey Dillon's last season:
    I read every sports atricle I can and watch every sports how for that matter too. And recently Christian Fauria made a valid point that seems to be overlooked far too often. But first. The Patriots are a throw first offense and have been since Corey Dillon's last season here. Brady was a much younger QB then and didnt have the wide receivers he has had for the last three years. Second, Maroney came into the league with bone chips in his shoulder and was never really 100% until this offseason. Last year he tried playing with a broken shoulder and people questioned his toughness. He was one of the best backs in college while splitting carries with Marion Barber. Now the Cowboys have tried establishing the run over the last three years and have done so (especially with defenses geared to stop T.O.).  Point is this.. Maroney is the best back on the team and needs 20-30 carries a game to prove that. Running backs need a few carries to get a feel for the defense and how they are flowing to the ball and how the offensive lineman are handling their blocking assignments. Until Maroney gets a chance as a Feature back to run the ball it is unfair to say he is a bust. His average yards per carry is over 4 that should say something.    By running the ball more it will loosen up the defense for easier play action and also extend the life of Brady's arm.
    Posted by dshort3333


    +1

    The Pats kept anticipating that Maroney was going to establish the running game- never did past a game or two.  Having spent the first pick (years, ago) and waiting many more years...no wonder why there are so many Maroney bashers.  Perhaps, Pats fans would prefer to scrap the Maroney experiement and compliment Brady, whilst we have him, yeah?  Methinks.



     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from cowtherabbit-. Show cowtherabbit-'s posts

    Re: We havent tried to establish a running game since Corey Dillon's last season

    We are tied for 11th with Minnesota for rushing attempts/game but only 14th in  yards/game. We do try and are not too bad but definitely could use some improvement.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlemaslow. Show seattlemaslow's posts

    Re: We havent tried to establish a running game since Corey Dillon's last season

    I think the key question is if it's 3rd and 2 a windy Sunday in December, do they run it or throw it? Yes, they can run for a lot of yards, but it seems much of this comes from draws and spread formations. Can they run it when they HAVE to? Im not suggesting taking the ball out of Brady's hands, but it would be nice if they could do it when necessary.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from patsfaninsatx. Show patsfaninsatx's posts

    Re: We havent tried to establish a running game since Corey Dillon's last season

    In Response to Re: We havent tried to establish a running game since Corey Dillon's last season:
    We are tied for 11th with Minnesota for rushing attempts/game but only 14th in yards/game. We do try and are not too bad but definitely could use some improvement.
    Posted by cowtherabbit-



    How does that work?
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from cowtherabbit-. Show cowtherabbit-'s posts

    Re: We havent tried to establish a running game since Corey Dillon's last season

    In Response to Re: We havent tried to establish a running game since Corey Dillon's last season:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: We havent tried to establish a running game since Corey Dillon's last season : How does that work?
    Posted by patsfaninsatx

      ? How does it not? They are simple stats. Rushing attempt per game average and rushing yard per game average.    http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?season=2009&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=2&conference=ALL&tabSeq=2&role=TM&statisticCategory=RUSHING&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=RUSHING_ATTEMPTS_PER_GAME_AVG&d-447263-n=1
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from 617AcrossDaBoard. Show 617AcrossDaBoard's posts

    Re: We havent tried to establish a running game since Corey Dillon's last season

    How good our running game is is pretty much based on perception.  Numbers dont't lie and the numbers say we have a solid running game, BUT we aren't a "running team."  Most the teams with a 2-back system are considered "running teams."  Maroney is better than Deangelo Williams and Morris is just as good as Stewart But Brady is far superior to Delhomme.  What team besides the Vikes & the Bengals (this yr) have a great QB and a great running game.  I think Eli is only as good as that running game allows him to be.  Even as Big Ben gets more comfortable pittsburg changes its style as a run first team...
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: We havent tried to establish a running game since Corey Dillon's last season

    In Response to Re: We havent tried to establish a running game since Corey Dillon's last season:
    In Response to We havent tried to establish a running game since Corey Dillon's last season : +1 The Pats kept anticipating that Maroney was going to establish the running game- never did past a game or two.  Having spent the first pick (years, ago) and waiting many more years...no wonder why there are so many Maroney bashers.  Perhaps, Pats fans would prefer to scrap the Maroney experiement and compliment Brady, whilst we have him, yeah?  Methinks.
    Posted by BTownExpress



    Btown and ALL:

    First I agree with the poster who said that Belichick tends to use his player's strengths, and the Team's strengths, rather than "forcing" things they are more weak at.  Here, Ya really can't blame BB for going with Tom Brady's Passing Skills to his couple of elite wideouts, over a Committee of broken old Runningbacks, and 1 Dancer. 

    Total agreement with your sentiments Btown...  When it comes to Maroney, I think Occam's Razor fits the best ("...of multiple competing theories, the simpliest explanation is the most probable"): 

    YES, Maroney DOES have above a 4 yard average, BUT He's had two just above 4 yard average games, Three 3 yard average games, One 0.9 average games, and One Game vs arguably the worst team in football this year (Titans), Where LM averaged something like 7.7 yards (this last one kinda tends to inflate your previous outputs a tad, ehh?). 

    Yes, Our O-Line is a little more of a pass-blocking, a little less of a smash-mouth-in-the-trenches with their personell/techniques, BUT They ARE ranked right now Overall in stats as being 4th in the League...

    Yes, We are a Pass-First team more often than not, BUT the numbers that were given was that we are 11th in the League in Rushing Attempts (although just 14th in average), SO it's not as IF we've completely abandoned and have forsaked the run in ANY big way...

    Yes, I too, at times can see the argument that a "runner has to get a feel/rhythm within a game", and should get at least upwards of 15 or more carries, BUT Ya can't blame BB for going with the committee approach when Taylor and BJGE, who have 3/4's to less than half of the attempts that LM has, are BOTH averaging more yards-per-carry (Faulk and Morris, BOTH dinosaurs, 1 Injured- Together have smaller averages, Morris, who's been injured, has just a 0.2 yard average less/and Faulk, who I'm tired of hearing "gets the ball when the D is spread out (passing/draw-play downs), and so has better play-calling in his favor", has ONLY touched the ball 20 times this year, and so He's not the only one in the game as RB when running certain passing downs, AND IF one wanted to make the "getting a feel for the game with numerous rushing attempts" Argument, It would be with his 20 attempts, NOT with LM's over 60 attempts...

    ~Sorry guys, BUT with Maroney, perhaps I should have used Murphy's Law rather than Occam's Razor (M.Law-"cr#p that can go wrong, WILL go wrong").  After 5 or so years of injuries, less-than-stellar-output, lack of overall consistancy...a 1st rd billing, but not a 1s rd talent, It's pretty safe to safe, IF Maroney's not a bust, He's certainly not 'the answer' either...
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from gmbill. Show gmbill's posts

    Re: We havent tried to establish a running game since Corey Dillon's last season

    In Response to We havent tried to establish a running game since Corey Dillon's last season:
    I read every sports atricle I can and watch every sports how for that matter too. And recently Christian Fauria made a valid point that seems to be overlooked far too often. But first. The Patriots are a throw first offense and have been since Corey Dillon's last season here. Brady was a much younger QB then and didnt have the wide receivers he has had for the last three years. Second, Maroney came into the league with bone chips in his shoulder and was never really 100% until this offseason. Last year he tried playing with a broken shoulder and people questioned his toughness. He was one of the best backs in college while splitting carries with Marion Barber. Now the Cowboys have tried establishing the run over the last three years and have done so (especially with defenses geared to stop T.O.).  Point is this.. Maroney is the best back on the team and needs 20-30 carries a game to prove that. Running backs need a few carries to get a feel for the defense and how they are flowing to the ball and how the offensive lineman are handling their blocking assignments. Until Maroney gets a chance as a Feature back to run the ball it is unfair to say he is a bust. His average yards per carry is over 4 that should say something.    By running the ball more it will loosen up the defense for easier play action and also extend the life of Brady's arm.
    Posted by dshort3333


    Fred Taylor was brought on to make up the run game, his getting hurt has changed those plans and as usual for the Pats, they are finding a new way to win. Hopefully we see Fred later in the season
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from MaritimePatsFan. Show MaritimePatsFan's posts

    Re: We havent tried to establish a running game since Corey Dillon's last season

    Listen people, the OL is the "problem" with the running game. If a RB is not averaging 4 yds/carry your OL is not doing their job. If a RB gets 4 yards on a running play the OL did their job. Anything after 4 yards on a single play is then the RB making a play. That is why Peterson is the best back in football. His OL is built for the run they get him the first 4 yards and then HE makes a play on a LB or DB to get another 5 to 15 yards. Maroney who, don't get me wrong I think is expendable after this season, on a lot of plays is not getting 4 yds or is getting tackled in the backfield, that is not his fault. That is our OL not doing their job against the opponents DL. If Maroney does get 4 yards  the OL did their job, if he gets 10-15 then both OL did their job and Maroney made a play.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from 617AcrossDaBoard. Show 617AcrossDaBoard's posts

    Re: We havent tried to establish a running game since Corey Dillon's last season

    Agreed... 4 yards is a bit much to hold the O-line to, but they should at least get that initial push... unless its a draw play where you want the line to cave and at the last minute hand off to the RB.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from MaritimePatsFan. Show MaritimePatsFan's posts

    Re: We havent tried to establish a running game since Corey Dillon's last season

    In Response to Re: We havent tried to establish a running game since Corey Dillon's last season:
    Agreed... 4 yards is a bit much to hold the O-line to, but they should at least get that initial push... unless its a draw play where you want the line to cave and at the last minute hand off to the RB.
    Posted by 617AcrossDaBoard


    Maroney may dance in the backfield, but you agree it is the fault of the OL that the hole where he is supposed to run to is not there, thus the sidestep or dance move happens.

    Having said that, this OL is not going to change. They are pass block first and if you can run block its a bonus. The trick is to get a RB who plays to that type of scheme. Kevin Faulk as a 3rd down or scatback as I like to call them are good ones to have. You expect pass against the Pats, he is a pass catcher, so a Shotgun draw works to his advantage. The other type of back is a Bruiser. The "we need 3 yards on this play" type of back. The hole isn't there, so what run into the back of your O Lineman and drive the pile 3 yards. Thats what I want from the run game. Brady is going to get the yards through the air. Let's find a Brandon Jacobs or Beanie Wells type of guy pair him with a Faulk or scatback type and ride Brady's shoulder.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from dshort3333. Show dshort3333's posts

    Re: We havent tried to establish a running game since Corey Dillon's last season

    In Response to Re: We havent tried to establish a running game since Corey Dillon's last season:
    I think the key question is if it's 3rd and 2 a windy Sunday in December, do they run it or throw it? Yes, they can run for a lot of yards, but it seems much of this comes from draws and spread formations. Can they run it when they HAVE to? Im not suggesting taking the ball out of Brady's hands, but it would be nice if they could do it when necessary.
    Posted by seattlemaslow

    I completely agree with you. If we were able to run the ball with consistency we would be able to kill them with the deep ball on play action when the safeties came up in run-support.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from dshort3333. Show dshort3333's posts

    Re: We havent tried to establish a running game since Corey Dillon's last season

    In Response to Re: We havent tried to establish a running game since Corey Dillon's last season:
    In Response to Re: We havent tried to establish a running game since Corey Dillon's last season : Maroney may dance in the backfield, but you agree it is the fault of the OL that the hole where he is supposed to run to is not there, thus the sidestep or dance move happens. Having said that, this OL is not going to change. They are pass block first and if you can run block its a bonus. The trick is to get a RB who plays to that type of scheme. Kevin Faulk as a 3rd down or scatback as I like to call them are good ones to have. You expect pass against the Pats, he is a pass catcher, so a Shotgun draw works to his advantage. The other type of back is a Bruiser. The "we need 3 yards on this play" type of back. The hole isn't there, so what run into the back of your O Lineman and drive the pile 3 yards. Thats what I want from the run game. Brady is going to get the yards through the air. Let's find a Brandon Jacobs or Beanie Wells type of guy pair him with a Faulk or scatback type and ride Brady's shoulder.
    Posted by MaritimePatsFan

        Absolutely! Well said.
     
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