We lost 4 games last season....

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from jaxpat. Show jaxpat's posts

    We lost 4 games last season....

    and on 3 of those the Pats had the lead with less than 3 minutes to go and the defense failed to make a play to stop the opponets offense.

    What's that tell you.  We need more play makers on defense.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: We lost 4 games last season....

    In Response to We lost 4 games last season....:
    [QUOTE]and on 3 of those the Pats had the lead with less than 3 minutes to go and the defense failed to make a play to stop the opponets offense. What's that tell you.  We need more play makers on defense.
    Posted by jaxpat[/QUOTE]

    Did NE not get the ball back on Offense to answer in ANY or ALL of these 3 of 4 losing games in order to have a shot at their very own last second drive to counter?  How many points did the Offense score in those games seperately?  How many Turnovers did NE have in those games, seperately?  How many points was NE's Offense able to score in each of those games in the second half?  What was Brady's passer rating in each of these games, and what was NE's total running attempts verses total passing attempts in these games?  How do Each and Every one of these things compare to the very same statistics that were averaged as season-wide/final season Stats? 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: We lost 4 games last season....

    It's been well documented that the offense, in the regular season, is pretty unstoppable.

    The playoffs have painted a very different picture.

    The offense is not diverse enough, that much seems to be widely agreed upon. Where the lack of diversity comes from is the point of contention.

    The Pats need some help on D, yes, but they also need some kind of adjustemnt on offense. Good defenses can shut down this offense when it matters. Too many guys working between the numbers, around the sticks. Simply too many.

    The D, I think, will get better simply with a FULL offseason, and a year of seasoning for some of these guys:

    Spikes
    McCourty
    Chung
    Mayo
    Cunningham
    Dowling
    Moore
    Love
    Deaderick

    And Laz, man, you ask some tough questions. What? You don't like when someone looks at a small piece of the whole pie? Listen, some of us have to buy our cheesecake by the slice and just assume the rest is the same. ;)
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: We lost 4 games last season....

    Ah yes another raging debate over just who's fault this was - the third ranked offense lead by a hall of fame QB and record breaking tight end or the third to last ranked defense lead by...
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: We lost 4 games last season....

    In Response to We lost 4 games last season....:
    [QUOTE]and on 3 of those the Pats had the lead with less than 3 minutes to go and the defense failed to make a play to stop the opponets offense. What's that tell you.  We need more play makers on defense.
    Posted by jaxpat[/QUOTE]


    Bad analysis.  It tells me we had a pretty good team.  It tells me our offense can't hold the ball late in games sometimes.  Yes, the defense needs some extra work on the back end.  It's a small tweak.  We need a number 1 WR.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: We lost 4 games last season....

    It was a good season.  We made it to the Superbowl.  All the "one and done" people immediately switched to "lost the superbowl to the Giants AGAIN" and that is just crazy.  We lost the core of our old defense, had an offense that had to be rebuilt after repeated issues, and we were competitive all those years of getting the rebuild done, now we are getting to a new year, have good or great guys signed at all the major positions with very few exceptions, and we are in excellent position in the FA market, both with the money and the cachet to get the FAs.  I am sure BB is not going to do what I want him to, or what I think he will, but I can say, he will keep us at the front of the pack again.  Brady is an above average quarterback, but the idea that he is all we need to win is silly.  We need what we always needed, offense defense and special teams playing complementary football.  A bit of work in a few areas and we are good to go.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: We lost 4 games last season....

    In Response to Re: We lost 4 games last season....:
    [QUOTE] And Laz, man, you ask some tough questions. What? You don't like when someone looks at a small piece of the whole pie? Listen, some of us have to buy our cheesecake by the slice and just assume the rest is the same. ;)
    Posted by ma6dragon9[/QUOTE]

    ma6dragon:

    For we, are like cheesecakes on the tablecloth.  In appearance they lie deliciously and a little pull should be enough to set them rolling your way.  No, It cannot be done, for someone made sure to firmly wed them to the linen underneath.  But see, even that, is only appearance...

    PrairieZbellino?

    Cheesecake, much like the Nicaraguan cigar with a sumatra bind & ecuadorean filler which I'm currently smoking, same as the ultra-athletic 23 year old long-haired brunette who comes from money, but is non-shallow, and whom I'm certain in belief will go toe-to-toe for me if ever needed be- Are ALL, Really bad examples to use when placed under any terms having to do with: "temperance", or "good judgement", or "non-impulsive behavior", or "things I can think clearly and objectively about prior to my initial actions."  ~It's every other tastey delicacy in life that we're able to placed in microscope slide dishes.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: We lost 4 games last season....

    ^Sealed


    Laz, you have catapulted to the top of my BDC poster list. Especially with the 1st response to the OP on this thread but also because of the passion for cigars..

    I'm smoking a Monte Cristo #4. Somebody told me they are the number 1 selling cigar int he world? IDK but I smoke them cuz my boss gives me a case on Christmas every year!!! Great smoke

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from oklahomapatriot. Show oklahomapatriot's posts

    Re: We lost 4 games last season....

    In Response to We lost 4 games last season....:
    [QUOTE]and on 3 of those the Pats had the lead with less than 3 minutes to go and the defense failed to make a play to stop the opponets offense. What's that tell you.  We need more play makers on defense.
    Posted by jaxpat[/QUOTE]

    The last game(SB) I saw them lose, the offense failed to execute on their final drive that could have won the game. I also saw the offense get an INT on a deep ball that our TE could not go after because of his ankle injury-why did B'Ob call that play?

    I also saw our offense give up a safety on their first possesion.

    Offense squander 14 points and gave two to the Jints.

     
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: We lost 4 games last season....

    In Response to Re: We lost 4 games last season....:
    [QUOTE]^ Laz, you have catapulted to the top of my BDC poster list. Especially with the 1st response to the OP on this thread but also because of the passion for cigars.. I'm smoking a Monte Cristo #4. Somebody told me they are the number 1 selling cigar int he world? IDK but I smoke them cuz my boss gives me a case on Christmas every year!!! Great smoke
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    That's a nice cigar man...  Today I stopped in to a smoke shop ("Smoker's Paradise"), which I had overlooked for some time due to the set-back commercial lot they were in, and afterwards had simply assumed it was more of a "head-shop" offering no decent cigars...

    Very wrong.

    Came back with 3 cigars- 1 was this excellent blend which I've never seen the domestic version, but I'm almost certain was originally a cuban manufacturer considering that I've seen the brand name on the "Cuban Lou's" web-site.  2nd was the Oliva Cameroon/Sumatra blend I just discussed (man- pyramid box-press maduro...dear lord, non-option to pass-up).  Final one?  Fonseca (which for some reason, I believe is tied up with monte cristo <unsure though? />).  Dark maduro unlike many Fonsecas I've come across round here...gots that thin cedar binding down 2/3rds the length of it...man.

    Lol, I'm tellin' ya, I had a toasted almond D&D coffee waiting for me out in the ride, So I lit up, pulled the corner in my state of bliss...wham-O=It's like that once that 51% level of joy is reached, there becomes no other choice IN the Universe than for my coffee to HAVE to spill all over the hoodie I took off and placed on the passenger side floor...no...other...way, lmao!  If I had the coffee in my hands, it woulda just exploded in some unexplained act of internal combustion.
    ...Either this, or I'm at fault for takin' that tight turn.  Theories such as this are never really viable options for me however.


     
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: We lost 4 games last season....

    Yeah, the D is deficient in the endgame. It's been that way for years.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: We lost 4 games last season....

    In Response to Re: We lost 4 games last season....:
    [QUOTE]Yeah, the D is deficient in the endgame. It's been that way for years.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    And if ANY of you people want proof, just ask babe- he'll tell ya...  He'll say: "It's the D's fault...been their fault for some time now."   
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: We lost 4 games last season....

    first of all, 4 losses ain't so bad.

    It's unfortunate that we lost the SB, but, overall it was a team loss; including bad coaching/game plan.

    The Patriots, for the most part, beat most of the average and poorer teams - but had a tough time agains teams w/ a decent pass rush and could cover.  Face it, the Patriots are at the top of the second tier.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: We lost 4 games last season....

    In Response to Re: We lost 4 games last season....:
    [QUOTE]^ Laz, you have catapulted to the top of my BDC poster list. Especially with the 1st response to the OP on this thread but also because of the passion for cigars.. I'm smoking a Monte Cristo #4. Somebody told me they are the number 1 selling cigar int he world? IDK but I smoke them cuz my boss gives me a case on Christmas every year!!! Great smoke
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    That's the Cuban blend and not the Dominican.  But still a nice smoke!  Give a sumatra a try.  It's not strong and a damned fine smoke.  Rocky Patel makes a couple of different ones.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from DoNotSleepOnThePats. Show DoNotSleepOnThePats's posts

    Re: We lost 4 games last season....

    Oh for Christ's sake.  It's called a TEAM effort.  I question whether some of you are really football fans.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: We lost 4 games last season....

    In Response to Re: We lost 4 games last season....:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: We lost 4 games last season.... : And if ANY of you people want proof, just ask babe- he'll tell ya...  He'll say: "It's the D's fault...been their fault for some time now."   
    Posted by LazarusintheSanatorium[/QUOTE]

    I'm not so sure this is a thread about "fault" for anything. 

    You are kind of reading it sideways against the backdrop of the board. 

    It's about discussing the defense and it's merits.

    NE is 1-6 in the last two seasons when they score less than 23 points. 23 points is about a league average score one offense. 

    By comparison, the Ravens are about .500 at that mark over the last few seasons. 

    NE has also only lost seven games the last few seasons. They've played 36. That's about 81% of the time that they are "over" league average. 

    A league average score yeilded is about 21. NE has given up more than that 17 times.  So about 47% of the time, they are playing poor defense.

    The question is about diminishing returns and abstraction. Look at it abstractly. 

    How much more do you load up an offense that scores above average 81% of the time? How much can you improve a defense that falters almost half the time? Or, to the point of this thread.... can't stop anyone when the game is on the line ... oh, and mind you ... but for a missed FG, Baltimore could have easily won that game in the playoffs too. 

    If there are two components to an object, and one component succeeds 8/10 times, and the other only about 50%, the level of coincident success is very , very low. The level of non-coincident success is lower by a factor. 

    You end up winning just 1/7, about 15%, of those contests where you are in the 8/10. 

    In short, it would be nice to have a defense there that can pick up the slack when NE doesn't score about average amounts of points. The dream of having an offense that scores OVER 23 points 100% of the time is an impossiblity that anyone who watches sports, gambles, flips coins, or plays rock paper scissors (even casually) would understand.

    Nothing works 100% of the time. 

    Plenty of things work more than 50% of the time. 

    It's not about "fault" .... it's about building a better team. 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: We lost 4 games last season....

    In Response to Re: We lost 4 games last season....:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: We lost 4 games last season.... : ma6dragon : For we, are like cheesecakes on the tablecloth.  In appearance they lie deliciously and a little pull should be enough to set them rolling your way.  No, It cannot be done, for someone made sure to firmly wed them to the linen underneath.  But see, even that, is only appearance... Prairie ?  Zbellino ? Cheesecake, much like the Nicaraguan cigar with a sumatra bind & ecuadorean filler which I'm currently smoking, same as the ultra-athletic 23 year old long-haired brunette who comes from money, but is non-shallow, and whom I'm certain in belief will go toe-to-toe for me if ever needed be- Are ALL, Really bad examples to use when placed under any terms having to do with: "temperance", or "good judgement", or "non-impulsive behavior", or "things I can think clearly and objectively about prior to my initial actions."  ~ It's every other  tastey delicacy in life that we're able to placed in microscope slide dishes.
    Posted by LazarusintheSanatorium[/QUOTE]

    I'm not sure about the shoutout, unless you guessed I was smoking Arturo Fuentes Don Carlos last night .... but no, I know well the difference between the cheescake and the cloth. 

    We keep hearing about how this defense is "going to improve." It keeps not improving. NE cannot win low scoring games because their defense is enough. The fact that they can win as much as they do is a testament to their offense. 

    Stop blaming the cheescake for the failed guarantees that the diet is starting tommorrow. ;-)


     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: We lost 4 games last season....

    In Response to Re: We lost 4 games last season....:
    [QUOTE]In Response to We lost 4 games last season.... : Did NE not get the ball back on Offense to answer in ANY or ALL of these 3 of 4 losing games in order to have a shot at their very own last second drive to counter?  How many points did the Offense score in those games seperately?  How many Turnovers did NE have in those games, seperately?  How many points was NE's Offense able to score in each of those games in the second half?  What was Brady's passer rating in each of these games, and what was NE's total running attempts verses total passing attempts in these games?  How do Each and Every one of these things compare to the very same statistics that were averaged as season-wide/final season Stats? 
    Posted by LazarusintheSanatorium[/QUOTE]

    How many of those games were against elite defenses? How many were against average or worse offenses? How many turnovers did the defense get? How many 3 & outs? How long did they allow the opponents offenses to stay on the field? How many drives did they get for the offense? 

    Take three of the losses this season ... the offense only saw the ball about 7 or 8 times per (with meaningful time). 

    Of course their point total is going to come down ... that is about 63% of the opportunities they have in an average game. If they are given the average amount of drives in those games, they likely score around 27 points per game. 

    There is, after all, nothing like looking at the whole entire pie ... is there? 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: We lost 4 games last season....


    I think it's pretty clear what the Pats need to do:

    Assuming they keep most of their key free agents (Welker, maybe Branch, Connolly and/or Koppen, maybe Light, Anderson and/or Carter, etc.):
    • They need to get much better on defense--and that means bringing in three to five top players, at least two in the defensive backfield and at least one (preferably two or three) in the front seven positions.
    • On offense, they need one or two more weapons to give them more diversity--I think a top-quality wideout is the key.  I'd also like to see a more explosive RB who can catch as well as run well (maybe that's Ridley or Vereen).   Some depth pieces (blocking third TE, for instance) would be nice too. 
    Personally, I think the fastest way to a championship is to start improving the defense (a project that is going to take more than one year), but also get at least one more top quality offensive weapon to improve the diversity of the offense.  Since you really only need one guy on offense you may as well try to get that guy, because offense is currently the one thing that has the potential to be truly exceptional on this team and is therefore, the primary strength of the team that makes it championship calibre. 

    However, we need a defense that can get opposing offenses off the field faster, so shoring up the defensive backfield and the edge positions (OLB/DE) in the front seven are crucial too.  

    If it were up to me, I'd be targeting three top guys this year (in no particular order):

    1. A top level wideout (I'm assuming Welker is staying so this is in addition to Welker)
    2. A top level DB (either safety or corner--just get the best DB available)
    3. An OLB/DE--preferably someone who can rush the passer and also drop into coverage (OLB), but a disruptive guy at the LOS (DE) would be okay too. 

    After that, I'd stress getting bodies to compete for the various defensive positions.  I think you can ignore offense (beyond the wideout) as long as you are sure enough of your interior linemen are coming back and you have some faith in the RBs we already have and can re-sign.  The one exception is that third TE--doesn't have to be a star, but it would be nice to have one guy who can block and occasionally catch a pass.  



     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: We lost 4 games last season....

    In Response to Re: We lost 4 games last season....:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: We lost 4 games last season.... : How many of those games were against elite defenses? How many were against average or worse offenses? How many turnovers did the defense get? How many 3 & outs? How long did they allow the opponents offenses to stay on the field? How many drives did they get for the offense?  Take three of the losses this season ... the offense only saw the ball about 7 or 8 times per (with meaningful time).  Of course their point total is going to come down ... that is about 63% of the opportunities they have in an average game. If they are given the average amount of drives in those games, they likely score around 27 points per game.  There is, after all, nothing like looking at the whole entire pie ... is there? 
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]

    Not so sure I even made what could be labeled as an "actual claim" on this thread zbellino...  My singular claim was asking for further and more detailed information in order so the OP could actually solidify his OWN claim in an actual objective manner...(which is clearly why my rhetoric asking for further evidence, was answered by...elliptical rhetoric...in response to my non-thesis, Mmmm).
     
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: We lost 4 games last season....

    In Response to Re: We lost 4 games last season....:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: We lost 4 games last season.... : And if ANY of you people want proof, just ask babe- he'll tell ya...  He'll say: "It's the D's fault...been their fault for some time now."   
    Posted by LazarusintheSanatorium[/QUOTE]

    They don't need to take my word as proof. They could just look at the last few minutes of the games in question.
     
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