Week Six Assessment Time

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    Re: Week Six Assessment Time

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Nice post/thread prolate. It's nice to read threads from reasonable fans that don't have an agenda (that looks worse and worse by the second) that can't be honest and give a good assessment.

    Spot on. Personally I've just grown tired of watching this defense. Four years of this has worn me out - I just feel like it's been a waste of Brady's career and my rooting interest as a fan. 

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree Pro is a Pro, always well thoughtout logical post. ZBello too.

    I've also had enough of this D.  Last year I had a sick feeling every time they took the field.  I no longer have that.  It's now, oh well, here comes another loss in the last minutes of the 4th.  What else is new?  I don't like feeling either., disgust or apathy, which is worse?

    [/QUOTE]

    I haven't posted much, nor in a long time, but I have to say this is amazing.  I have noticed it since the "miracle"-helmet-tyree catch.  Long completions are not all on the cornerback or the safeties.  this is simple football knowlege.  It is a mixture of both pressure and coverage. Big Vince said so much today on Weei.  What you cannot over come is holding by the o-line.  I have seen it so blatant that it is becoming sickening to watch.  Double teaming Vince is a euphamism for holding. You cannot keep Vince out of the backfield on almost every passing down if you do not hold him.  The Patriots D lineman have been getting held for years, yet no one sees this. It started with Eli in the first Super Bowl and it its continuing to this day.  It happend again on the last TD for the Seahwawks.  Whoever was on the the left end, it may have been Cunningham, was obviously held as he got by the tackle and was heading for Wilson.  You see his body jerk as the tackle had him held with one hand on his shoulder pad.  But no flag and boom.  It takes a little bit to have that type of route develop, too much time not to have someone in the backfield.  That is of course if they aren't being held. 

    Please don't get me wrong. There were mistakes a plenty from the Pats. But in the NFL, if you are fighting the NFL and the other team, its hard to consistently win.  Remember, parity is the NFL codeword for making more money.  The 3 losses were by 4 points. Look at the other teams that are 3-3 4-2.  The Pats are that close in spite of the NFL. 

     
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    Re: Week Six Assessment Time

    Thanks mthurl and pezz4pats.  Always enjoy reading your stuff too.  Glad to see Zbellino posting too.  I think he's the most knowledgable poster out there.  I learn a lot from his stuff.

    The defense is frustrating, but there are some bright spots.  I really do think the front seven is better this year.  Love may not be a star, but he's steadily improved to the point where he's a solid starter now next to Wilfork.  Jones has a lot of talent and will only get better, I think.  Nink (who I criticized early this season) has been playing much better and is starting to make some impact plays.  Spikes brings attitude, Mayo defines professional, and Hightower when he's in has a lot of potential.  I do worry about pass coverage among these LBs, but I really believe this could be one of the best run-stopping fronts in the league.   

    Pass defense is mostly bad news . . . but I think McCourty is playing better again (if a bit inconsistently) and I have some hope still that Wilson will turn out okay.  (Maybe it's worth mentioning that McCourty has really come on as a run defender, even if his pass defense is inconsistent.) Chung seems to have taken a step backwards in my opinon.  He's just out of position a lot and can't seem to cover at all.  The other corner spot (and the nickel / slot corner spot) is a work in progress.  I really like Arrington's attitude and toughness, but he's not a cover corner.  Dowling, Dennard, Moore . . . none of these really has stepped up, but all are young and maybe one will develop as the season progresses.  After a loss like yesterday's, it's really easy to get discouraged, but the season is still early.  

    And even if the team has a bad year this year, it's still a great team to watch.  One thing you can count on, Belichick will always find ways to make the season very interesting.  

     

     
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    Re: Week Six Assessment Time

    In response to digger0862's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If the offense is a Ferrari then the defense is a Yugo. Sunday the Ferrari broke down and the Yugo got a flat tire but many people can't understand why the Yugo doesn't perform like a Sherman Tank.

    [/QUOTE]


    The guy who bought the Yugo thought he was buying a Sherman tank.

     
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    Re: Week Six Assessment Time

    I have a bad feeling the Worm Turned Yesterday.  The Coaching is a mess, our DB's couldn't cover a Quadriplegic, we only have 1 legit WR who isn't a down field threat and a stoppable running game.

     
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    Re: Week Six Assessment Time

    In response to Bunker Spreckels' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to AFNAV130's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Nice post/thread prolate. It's nice to read threads from reasonable fans that don't have an agenda (that looks worse and worse by the second) that can't be honest and give a good assessment.

    Spot on. Personally I've just grown tired of watching this defense. Four years of this has worn me out - I just feel like it's been a waste of Brady's career and my rooting interest as a fan. 

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree Pro is a Pro, always well thoughtout logical post. ZBello too.

    I've also had enough of this D.  Last year I had a sick feeling every time they took the field.  I no longer have that.  It's now, oh well, here comes another loss in the last minutes of the 4th.  What else is new?  I don't like feeling either., disgust or apathy, which is worse?

    [/QUOTE]

    I haven't posted much, nor in a long time, but I have to say this is amazing.  I have noticed it since the "miracle"-helmet-tyree catch.  Long completions are not all on the cornerback or the safeties.  this is simple football knowlege.  It is a mixture of both pressure and coverage. Big Vince said so much today on Weei.  What you cannot over come is holding by the o-line.  I have seen it so blatant that it is becoming sickening to watch.  Double teaming Vince is a euphamism for holding. You cannot keep Vince out of the backfield on almost every passing down if you do not hold him.  The Patriots D lineman have been getting held for years, yet no one sees this. It started with Eli in the first Super Bowl and it its continuing to this day.  It happend again on the last TD for the Seahwawks.  Whoever was on the the left end, it may have been Cunningham, was obviously held as he got by the tackle and was heading for Wilson.  You see his body jerk as the tackle had him held with one hand on his shoulder pad.  But no flag and boom.  It takes a little bit to have that type of route develop, too much time not to have someone in the backfield.  That is of course if they aren't being held. 

    Please don't get me wrong. There were mistakes a plenty from the Pats. But in the NFL, if you are fighting the NFL and the other team, its hard to consistently win.  Remember, parity is the NFL codeword for making more money.  The 3 losses were by 4 points. Look at the other teams that are 3-3 4-2.  The Pats are that close in spite of the NFL. 

    [/QUOTE]


    Agree. It's beyond sickening as well that our fans will trash BB and his HOF status, amazing work as a GM and not see that refs not calling holding, it's put far more pressure on every team's DBs are being asked to cover longer. Thank you for speaking up.  I feel like I am the only one with a clue on these threads.

    Ty Law would be penalized up the ying yang if he played today.  Gee, I wonder why Richard Seymour isn't as good as what he used to be.  The Baltimore game was also embarrassing.  Jones was held on almost every play. 

    Jarvis Green and Seymour were held on the Tyree helmet catch, no doubt, but as long as they call it the same across the board, it's just the way it is. What can be done about it when that's what the commissioner orders?

    Goodell wants points, so he instructs them to make most all of the calls, the subjectives ones to go in favor of the offense and agaisnt the D.

    This is why simply turning for the ball isn't always the answer, as BB explained last week in the press.  Sometimes they'll call PI with absolutely no contact or very limited contact, too. Everything is set up to not allow teams to defende the pass, which is also why any QBs stats in this day and age are bloated, including the ridiculous idea that "yards allowed" is a true reflection of a defense.

    10 year old kids might believe that bunk (or Tony Mazz and his minions), but the rest of us know what's going on in the NFL these days.  I don't like it either. It's more like how the arena league is and I don't like that league.

    Wilfork was held about 5 times yesterday after breaking through the line.  Many here say don't use it as an excuse, but it was brutal to watch. He's bearing down and then all of a sudden, the invisible swordsman keeps him from Wilson. Isn't that interesting.  And when WIlson scrambled it was just as bad. 

    The Hurlies, Prolates, Babes, Pezzies, etc, all just run in here and blame BB instead of watching the games and actually seeing what is happening.

    They have no idea Goodell took over from Tagliabue to sell and grow this league, first by generating investment interest in London.

    Europeans don't want 17-13 scores.   The parity part is great, IMO. What I don't like is how the refs are clearly instructed to call the game to influence more offense.

    It's a problem and very annoying seeing the game taken away from the players.  Once I read the replacement refs comments on how they were told to call PI a certain way (to favor the offense), it confirmed what I had suspected since Goodell took over.

    Stinks, but as long as it's somewhat even, it hopefully won't make a huge difference. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Thank you.  Yeah, I have been reading this forum for years and its amazing how people don't have a clue. They seem to know NOTHING about football and thus put blame totally where it isn't.  Its like everyone blaming Valentine.  He didn't get paid 20 millions and couldn't hit nor pitch. So, yeah blame him fully not the accurate 20-30 percent. That isn't saying that Belichick isn't without blame.  I wonder how the DBs can't turn for the ball.  Watch college film.  They did it then. Why not now? They wouldn't have been drafted if they couldn't "find" the ball.   That has to be a coaching thing.  And how can these DBs not self correct? Wow, I'm not looking for the ball. Gonna be a PI on this one.  Same as baseball.  Beckett, Lester Buch etc shouldn't need much coaching, they've been pitching for years. 

    I don't think it IS being called even.  I don't see too much holding with the Pats.  I really don't. Thats why they have offensive line "issues".  Scar makes them play the right way. I've been intently watching the line play in particular.  The SEA/Green Bay game the GB line was being held so blantantly but nothing came of it. Look at the NFL today. GB 3-3, Pats 3-3 and now all 3-3 in the AFC East. Greeeeat for business.  The Saints are cooked, and the NFL wants new interest.  Houston, win one more for Ray (maybe not now), Harbaugh could use one etc.  GB, NE, NO even Peyton are the NFL old news.  See I said Peyton not a team because thats pretty much what he is.

     
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    Re: Week Six Assessment Time

    In response to PhatRex's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to PhatRex's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Assess this.  The greatest team in NFL with the greatest coach/GM that has drafted better than any other GM/team is in last place.

    [/QUOTE]


    How you figure they are in last place?

    [/QUOTE]

    It's pretty simple.  Not one team in the east has a worse record than the Patriots.  That's last place.

    [/QUOTE]


    There are adjustments for the tiebreakers, and by those they are second.

     
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    Re: Week Six Assessment Time

    In response to Bunker Spreckels' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to AFNAV130's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Nice post/thread prolate. It's nice to read threads from reasonable fans that don't have an agenda (that looks worse and worse by the second) that can't be honest and give a good assessment.

    Spot on. Personally I've just grown tired of watching this defense. Four years of this has worn me out - I just feel like it's been a waste of Brady's career and my rooting interest as a fan. 

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree Pro is a Pro, always well thoughtout logical post. ZBello too.

    I've also had enough of this D.  Last year I had a sick feeling every time they took the field.  I no longer have that.  It's now, oh well, here comes another loss in the last minutes of the 4th.  What else is new?  I don't like feeling either., disgust or apathy, which is worse?

    [/QUOTE]

    I haven't posted much, nor in a long time, but I have to say this is amazing.  I have noticed it since the "miracle"-helmet-tyree catch.  Long completions are not all on the cornerback or the safeties.  this is simple football knowlege.  It is a mixture of both pressure and coverage. Big Vince said so much today on Weei.  What you cannot over come is holding by the o-line.  I have seen it so blatant that it is becoming sickening to watch.  Double teaming Vince is a euphamism for holding. You cannot keep Vince out of the backfield on almost every passing down if you do not hold him.  The Patriots D lineman have been getting held for years, yet no one sees this. It started with Eli in the first Super Bowl and it its continuing to this day.  It happend again on the last TD for the Seahwawks.  Whoever was on the the left end, it may have been Cunningham, was obviously held as he got by the tackle and was heading for Wilson.  You see his body jerk as the tackle had him held with one hand on his shoulder pad.  But no flag and boom.  It takes a little bit to have that type of route develop, too much time not to have someone in the backfield.  That is of course if they aren't being held. 

    Please don't get me wrong. There were mistakes a plenty from the Pats. But in the NFL, if you are fighting the NFL and the other team, its hard to consistently win.  Remember, parity is the NFL codeword for making more money.  The 3 losses were by 4 points. Look at the other teams that are 3-3 4-2.  The Pats are that close in spite of the NFL. 

    [/QUOTE]


    Agree. It's beyond sickening as well that our fans will trash BB and his HOF status, amazing work as a GM and not see that refs not calling holding, it's put far more pressure on every team's DBs are being asked to cover longer. Thank you for speaking up.  I feel like I am the only one with a clue on these threads.

    Ty Law would be penalized up the ying yang if he played today.  Gee, I wonder why Richard Seymour isn't as good as what he used to be.  The Baltimore game was also embarrassing.  Jones was held on almost every play. 

    Jarvis Green and Seymour were held on the Tyree helmet catch, no doubt, but as long as they call it the same across the board, it's just the way it is. What can be done about it when that's what the commissioner orders?

    Goodell wants points, so he instructs them to make most all of the calls, the subjectives ones to go in favor of the offense and agaisnt the D.

    This is why simply turning for the ball isn't always the answer, as BB explained last week in the press.  Sometimes they'll call PI with absolutely no contact or very limited contact, too. Everything is set up to not allow teams to defende the pass, which is also why any QBs stats in this day and age are bloated, including the ridiculous idea that "yards allowed" is a true reflection of a defense.

    10 year old kids might believe that bunk (or Tony Mazz and his minions), but the rest of us know what's going on in the NFL these days.  I don't like it either. It's more like how the arena league is and I don't like that league.

    Wilfork was held about 5 times yesterday after breaking through the line.  Many here say don't use it as an excuse, but it was brutal to watch. He's bearing down and then all of a sudden, the invisible swordsman keeps him from Wilson. Isn't that interesting.  And when WIlson scrambled it was just as bad. 

    The Hurlies, Prolates, Babes, Pezzies, etc, all just run in here and blame BB instead of watching the games and actually seeing what is happening.

    They have no idea Goodell took over from Tagliabue to sell and grow this league, first by generating investment interest in London.

    Europeans don't want 17-13 scores.   The parity part is great, IMO. What I don't like is how the refs are clearly instructed to call the game to influence more offense.

    It's a problem and very annoying seeing the game taken away from the players.  Once I read the replacement refs comments on how they were told to call PI a certain way (to favor the offense), it confirmed what I had suspected since Goodell took over.

    Stinks, but as long as it's somewhat even, it hopefully won't make a huge difference. 

    [/QUOTE]
    I have never blamed BB for any thing EVER!  If anything he coaches up the talent but where is it?  Jones, Hightower,  look good but so did Carter and Anderson.  TI T for tat.  The Seconday for what ever reason, is not NFL caliber.  Who would be takers if BB wanted to trade any of them?  Any one?  Doubtful.

    Please stop with the Zebra nonsense.  Ya they suck but they suck for all, not just the Pats. and they are in no way responsible for the soon to be 32nd ranked D.  It's all on them.  Spikes has come on but what good is it if he forces a 3rd and 22 and The QB (any QB) converts with a 55 yrd pass completion.  Pathetic!

    Maybe Jones should take some acting lessons from his brother and flop to the ground every time he's held.  That will stop that crap in a hurry.  Something....anything to help the O win a game instead of the last minute L's we've enjoyed for so many years now. 

    U Mass could beat this secondary.  No joke!

     
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    Re: Week Six Assessment Time

    In response to Bunker Spreckels' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Just answer the question: Do you think you saw Wilfork held after getting through the line on numerous occassions?

    I was shocked they finally dropped the flag when Nink was tackled as he was about to sack Wilson.

    [/QUOTE]


    Saw a lot of holding in every game.  What is your point? Also saw Flacco with I think 3 potential intentional groundings and none of them were called.  Deal with it and quit making Godell and Zebra excuses for a D that 31 other teams are better than.  It makes no sense and neither do you.

     
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    Re: Week Six Assessment Time

    In response to Bunker Spreckels' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    It makes no sense that Goodell thinks more points scored helps ratings, revenue and the ability to sell the game easier in Europe?

    Really?

    You must not be in business.

    [/QUOTE]


    I have a business degree and the fact that Godell wants ratings and to sell teams to Europe has absolutely nothing to do with the pathetic state of the Pats defense.  Quit using it as an excuse.

     
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    Re: Week Six Assessment Time

    In response to Bunker Spreckels' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    How is a great run D, the NFL leader in fumbles created and covered, a "pathetic" state?

    What's more pathetic is 5 trips to the 5 yard line and no points from those 5 trips. 

    Two more questions: What is your opinion of the Baltimore Ravens D so far this year?

    Are you taking by bet and if not, why aren't you since you're so emphatic that Brady dropping back to pass 58 times with a lead on the road is not the source of this problem we keep having?

    [/QUOTE]

    Brady passing too much is a RESULT of the problems we are having, not the cause.  He's trying to be ahead by 21 in the 4th qtr cuz 13 -14 isn't enough.  This team will never win unless they put up more than 30.  D will make sure of that.

    For a second I thought the D was taking a dive.  Looked worse than the Black Sox to me.

    Ravens D is Old and showing,  Injuries will kill them for the remainder of the season.  But I still think they are better than their ranking and the Pats are worse.  They held the Pats to 30 when they had 31.   They also held cl to 6 when they only had 9.  That's what they are supposed to do. Keep the oposition to lower than their O no matter how bad a day the O is having. 

    Imagine that!

     

     
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    Re: Week Six Assessment Time

    In response to Bunker Spreckels' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to PhatRex's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Bunker Spreckels' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    How is a great run D, the NFL leader in fumbles created and covered, a "pathetic" state?

    What's more pathetic is 5 trips to the 5 yard line and no points from those 5 trips. 

    Two more questions: What is your opinion of the Baltimore Ravens D so far this year?

    Are you taking by bet and if not, why aren't you since you're so emphatic that Brady dropping back to pass 58 times with a lead on the road is not the source of this problem we keep having?

    [/QUOTE]

    New name, same dumb questions.  

    [/QUOTE]

    One of your 8 different names, same legendary moron and unemployed 45 year old virgin from NJ.

    [/QUOTE]

    Thanks my man, I will try to speak up a bit around here more if some decent conversations can be had. I'm all for changing my opinion based on facts.  Its no use in debating with people who can't see anyting for what it is.  Am I blaming the "zebras"? Damn right I am. Any NFL game will have blown coverages, missed tackles, interceptions, fumbles etc etc.  You combine that with the refs not calling holding at the line, and you are going to have a hard time to win.  The soon to be 32nd ranked defense? That may be. And could they have survived with the PI calls they had? Yes they could have.  They are part of the game.  At least in this one, the real dagger was the bomb at the end because obvious holding wasn't called.  I like the Pats and hope they win, but I'm a football fan first. Pats fan second. They lose, they lose, so long as its legitimate.  What about Cleveland getting burned on the Flacco fumble? There is much more at work here than just missed calls and natural game mistakes.  Its how the calls impact the game and at what time they are (or are not) called.  A penalty giving you a first down when you are 2nd and 4 is less of a game changer than getting one that changed a 4th and 15 to 1st and 10(Pats/Ravens).  

     

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