Welker vs Amendola Metrics

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Welker vs Amendola Metrics

    Posted this when Danny signed:

    First 3 years (no Patriots, no Tom Brady):

    Welker 96 receptions (1 TD), Amendola 133 receptions (4 TD's)

    Welker 86 punt returns (9.9 avg.) 0 TD's, Amendola 72 punt returns (11.3 avg.) 0 TD's

    Welker 122 kick returns (22.9 avg.) 1 TD, Amendola 116 returns (23.8 avg.) 0 TD's

    Amendola missed last season with injury, Welker didn't play at all his rookie season except for kick and punt returns (which explains the disparity in the amount of returns between the two) so I removed Wes's third season of returns (worse than his first two) which makes this comparison more than then fair because it made his averages jump.

    The Dolphins were at least respectable when Welker was there, the Rams were the worst team in the NFL.  What this tells us is that while both players are very similar, Amendola was more of a possession receiver than Wes Welker his first three seasons, he was more explosive in both the kick and punt return game and that's saying a lot, plus he scored more. 

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Welker vs Amendola Metrics

    Hahaha!! Look at Rusty scramble to try and find some meaninful numbers that supports all his untuthfull comments in which he claims...

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:



    I literally have no idea how many times or what the percentage is. I chose 99% for effect, to show it was VERY, VERY RARE to have Welker on the flank (VERY RARE) and if he was on the flank, he wasn't effective or targeted.

     

    Here not only do you admit to saying false things "for effect" but then follow it up with  saying it was rare for Welker to line up on the flank, which you have stated here from the get go that Amendola does so much more then Welker.. In which I provided the numbers proving you wrong!

     

    Why don't you refer to the link I provided in this discussion ...

    http://www.boston.com/community/forums/sports/patriots/on-the-front-burner/just-look-at-the-versatility/100/6584304?page=2#post-16383041

    pro football focus provides all the info you need to know.  All the info that supports your comments are based on your agenda and not on facts. 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Welker vs Amendola Metrics

    Let me just put this here from the thread I linked to above..

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    Fun video for sure. It will be exciting to see what he can do in NE and see what the Pats have in store for him.

    Btw, he can get down field at times but that video shows how easily he is tackled and his yards after catch are not impressive. Certainly not better then Welkers.


    I know I will get slammed here for mentioning Welker but Rusty has gone on record over and over, post after post, thread after thread telling untruths just to push his agenda here, tow the company line and push Amendola and berate Welker.

    But the things he says over and over are not true.

    Rusty has said Welker was basically only a slot WR.  That Amendola lines up on the outside a lot more, that Amendola lines up in more positions then Welker has.  That Amendola runs more screen passes and can be better at running those.

    Well let me spew the facts here... 

    Since 2009 Danny Amendola has ran a higher percentage of his routes from the slot (85.3%) then Welker has (73.8%)

    While Rusty also likes to make a big deal how Amendola is a better deep receiver then Welker is.  Since 2009 out of 2104 routes ran Welker has been targeted as a deep receiver  38 times with 17 receptions for 655 yards.  An average of 38.5 yards per deep reception.  Out of 1085 routes ran Amendola was targeted 18 times with 5 receptions for 163 yards.  An average of 32.6 yards per reception.

    In another thread Rust said how much better the Pats will do with adding Amendola into screen passes, something Rusty said Welker didn't do much.  In 2012 Welker was targeted 22 time on screen passes while Amondola just 7.

    As you can see Rusty just throw's out numbers and stats as well as false statements.  The things he says is just not true.  He has an agenda here regardless if what he says is true or not.  How can people believe a word he says?

     



     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Welker vs Amendola Metrics

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    How hard is it for you to source those numbers? I've asked you twice now. The more you don't, the more clear it is, you are full of it.

    I am looking for how many times each were targeted too, not some bogus slot or flanker numbers that were lifted from some inaccurate blog.




    Hahaha!! You are such a tool! I have already provided the source and link in your other thread, you know they one where you are getting owned in.

    HERE YOU GO AGAIN!!  And it's not an inaccurate blog.  Another inaccurate statement on this site by you. You are a fraud Rusty!!

     

    https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/03/14/by-the-numbers-welker-and-amendola/

     

    I can't wait to see your spin on this one.  This article that I just provided the link to supports all your statement on here are untrue.  Just thowing out false statements "for effect" as you put it.  Effect to push your agenda.  tow the company line, spin it Rusty, spin it!!

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Welker vs Amendola Metrics

    Rusty must be busy trying to spin the numbers to make it look like he hasn't been wrong with all the posts he has made over and over, thread after thread. Come on Rusty I'm waiting for your spin here.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Welker vs Amendola Metrics

    Metrics are DVOA, and Wes stomps Amendola. It's not even a competition. But those metrics value raw yardage as the "table" on which the meal is set. It's difficult to project what a WR would do given more chances.  

    W. Welker:    30th   5.4%

    D. Amendola: 68th  -7.6%

    --- but looking at Wes's numbers in 2006 shows how this is skewed:

    Wes Welker (2006): 58th   -1.0%

    That was the last time Wes Welker had a season with a negative DVOA.

    The problem with DVOA is that even though it factors in percentages and rate, it can't project how well Amendola would do if he had more reps, what he would have looked like with Brady throwing to him (who is far more accurate as you will see below) and it *STILL* doesn't account for drops, even though they are relatively easy to track. Needless to say, Welker is not and has not been even a top 15 WR in the NFL. He is an elite slot WR, but he is still a slot WR. He isn't the talent a lot of people made him out to be, and his large reception totals were a function of his skill at getting open, but also the offense he was in before where he ran underneath Randy Moss and was featured in combo routes there and the offense he was in now where he filled in for Hernandez and ran underneath Gronkowski. When Hernandez was healthy .... he wasn't making so many catches. Hernandez AND Amendola will pick up the slack.  

    Wes Welker

    175 Targ / 118 Rec / Comp% 67.4 / Yds 1354  / 11.5 ypr/ Drops 19 / Drp% 10.8 / Miss 38 /

    Miss % 21.7

    LOS-10yds 103 Rec / Shrt Pass % 58.8

    Danny Amendola

    101 Targ / 63 Rec / Comp% 62.3 / Yds 666 / 10.6 ypr / Drops 2 / Drp% 1.9 / Miss 36 /

    Miss % 35.6

    LOS-10yds 51 Rec / Shrt Pass % 50.4

     

    W. Welker Adj. 2012 -> 10.9 Drops / 52 rec /  598

    D. Amendola Adj. 2012 -> 3.3 Drops / 133 rec / 1409 yds

    Here is a rundown. Misses means passes that didn't connect because of an errant throw, a miscommunication (wrong route on either end), or a pass defended. The benefit of playing with Brady is clear, though it's tough to sort out whether the "misses" could be because Amendola ran the wrong route or didn't get open enough and the pass was defended. What is clear is that he is much better at securing a catch.

    The bottom most numbers reconstruct the seasons they may have had if they switched QBs and offenses. The middle numbers, though, cloud this because Welker was a short pass WR; even when they lined him up outside, which was about half the time when Hernandez was on the field, he ran short routes, slants, etcetera. Amendola is an outside WR who comes into the slot when the Rams are in 4 wide or sometimes in 3 wide.

    The truth is somewhere between those numbers because I doubt Welker would have attracted the amount of attention he does in NE in St Louis, and he might have had less drops because of that. And I doubt that Amendola, who will now be more featured, will be as sure handed with teams keying on his routes. The fact is  .... no one cares what the dreaded Bradford/ Amendola connection is doing when they play St Louis .... they are there to stop Steven Jackson first and foremost. 

    Brady to Welker was the show last season, especially given the spate of injuries suffered by the TE group.

    Welker has had a problem dropping the ball since he came back from his knee injury, and I was discussing it before the infamous "drop" in the Superbowl. At the time, before that game, no one cared or noticed. 

    That said, I do think Wes is the best WR at getting open (possibly the best I've ever seen), though as my barber says (they have thought Welker was a choke artist for seasons) it doesn't matter if he drops it. 

    The truth, though, is that a.) as I've said for 3 seasons, Welker was an excellent spare part once Hernandez came here, b.) Amendola won't see 175 targets unless, c.) Hernandez spends the season injured again. Otherwise, the "replacement" for Wes Welker will be Hernandez in the "slot" as an H-back TE option much more often, much like Dallas Clark was for the Colts, with Amendola and Edelman(?) securing the slot position alternately when they run a true 11 package.  

    All of this is a huge risk though. Hernandez and Amendola are frequently injured. I don't have faith they can stay healthy for a whole season. 

    At the end of the day, NE takes a hit to the slot, but not the hit that DVOA would suggest. But they also gain a player who is much better outside the slot, and refine their personell package by being able to maximize Hernandez where HIS matchups are better. 

    Now, they need a true Z option, which they simply have not been able to fill since Moss left. If it's another JAG, they are still going to be a 20 yards and beneath offense, which will continue to put tremendous pressure on Brady to be hyper accurate in that crowded area. 

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from RallyC. Show RallyC's posts

    Re: Welker vs Amendola Metrics

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

    How hard is it for you to source those numbers? I've asked you twice now. The more you don't, the more clear it is, you are full of it.

    I am looking for how many times each were targeted too, not some bogus slot or flanker numbers that were lifted from some inaccurate blog.

     




    Hahaha!! You are such a tool! I have already provided the source and link in your other thread, you know they one where you are getting owned in.

     

    HERE YOU GO AGAIN!!  And it's not an inaccurate blog.  Another inaccurate statement on this site by you. You are a fraud Rusty!!

     

    https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/03/14/by-the-numbers-welker-and-amendola/

     

    I can't wait to see your spin on this one.  This article that I just provided the link to supports all your statement on here are untrue.  Just thowing out false statements "for effect" as you put it.  Effect to push your agenda.  tow the company line, spin it Rusty, spin it!!

     


    Come on...There is absolutely no way a true comparison, or better yet, a VALID comparison can be made between the two, YET. What we know for sure is that Amendola is bigger, faster, stronger, and much younger and in his prime. With TB as his QB, there is no doubt he will benefit just as Welker did, statistically. We also know for that DA hasn't had the opportunity to play for the Pats in a Superbowl and an ACF Champ game in concecutive years and drop the two biggest balls of his life. As we know,  Wes has..... and he failed miserably! My bet is that DA gets a ring while he's with the PATS. One more thing, DA still has more of his original hair, too! In the end, all that matters is whch guy helps us get another ring? We all have to pull for DA now.

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Welker vs Amendola Metrics

    In response to RallyC's comment:


    Come on...There is absolutely no way a true comparison, or better yet, a VALID comparison can be made between the two, YET. All that we know for sure is that Amendola is bigger, faster, stronger, and much younger and in his prime. With TB as his QB, there is no doubt he will benefit just as Welker did, statistically. The one thing we do know for sure is that DA hasn't had the opportunity to play for the Pats in a Superbowl and an ACF Champ game in concecutive years and drop the two biggest balls of his life. As we know,  Wes has..... and he failed miserably! My bet is that DA gets a ring while he's with the PATS. One more thing, DA still has more of his original hair, too!

     




    You have not been paying attention, frien!!  Rusty has been on here day in and day out stating all these things about how Amendola lines up out of the slot more then Welker, how Amendola lines up on the outside so much more then Welker and has done so much better then Welker has on the deeper passes.  It's all false!  He admits he says things "for effect".  Rusty has an agenda, he his here to push it whether it's true or not.  Rusty starts this thread to try and debunk my statements in a previous threat, what he doesn't understand is I have the facts to prove what he says are complete lies.

    Listen, I hope Amendola does great. I hope he helps them win a SB or two or three, but if Rusty is going to come on here and bash a receiver that had major produstion for the team and glorify an unproven player then that's just silly.  Rusty is a fraud!!  There are a few who buy into his gimmick and false words, that is a few people to many imo. 

    If he would just come on here and say he hopes this or that can happen or that Amendola is close to Welker in this situation but to come here and lie about Amendola doing certain things better then Welker when in fact that's not true then he is a fraud.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from RallyC. Show RallyC's posts

    Re: Welker vs Amendola Metrics

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    In response to RallyC's comment:

     


    Come on...There is absolutely no way a true comparison, or better yet, a VALID comparison can be made between the two, YET. All that we know for sure is that Amendola is bigger, faster, stronger, and much younger and in his prime. With TB as his QB, there is no doubt he will benefit just as Welker did, statistically. The one thing we do know for sure is that DA hasn't had the opportunity to play for the Pats in a Superbowl and an ACF Champ game in concecutive years and drop the two biggest balls of his life. As we know,  Wes has..... and he failed miserably! My bet is that DA gets a ring while he's with the PATS. One more thing, DA still has more of his original hair, too!

     

     




     

    You have not been paying attention, frien!!  Rusty has been on here day in and day out stating all these things about how Amendola lines up out of the slot more then Welker, how Amendola lines up on the outside so much more then Welker and has done so much better then Welker has on the deeper passes.  It's all false!  He admits he says things "for effect".  Rusty has an agenda, he his here to push it whether it's true or not.  Rusty starts this thread to try and debunk my statements in a previous threat, what he doesn't understand is I have the facts to prove what he says are complete lies.

    Listen, I hope Amendola does great. I hope he helps them win a SB or two or three, but if Rusty is going to come on here and bash a receiver that had major produstion for the team and glorify an unproven player then that's just silly.  Rusty is a fraud!!  There are a few who buy into his gimmick and false words, that is a few people to many imo. 

    If he would just come on here and say he hopes this or that can happen or that Amendola is close to Welker in this situation but to come here and lie about Amendola doing certain things better then Welker when in fact that's not true then he is a fraud.

     


    OK, Well if this Rusty character causes you angst, then I feel for ya. But your real problem is gonna be shaking your undying admiration for a player who's now with one of our, if not the biggest rival, the PATS have. Time to shift gears, stop letting everybody try to push that button, or WE WON"T STOP! You're still sleeping with the enemy, so to speak. Ya know, many of us loved Wes as a PAT at one time too, some more than others, but he's the enemy now who kinda messed up on and off the field which lead to his own demise, DA is our guy, and to hell with ANYBODY, fan or player, who tries to buck the PATRIOT WAY! It has been and still is a proven and successful philosophy that has elevated what was once OUR historically irrelevant Patriots to the throne as THE ELITE NFL FRANCHISE. With all due respect to you, of course.......

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Welker vs Amendola Metrics

    In response to RallyC's comment:


     


    OK, Well if this Rusty character causes you angst, then I feel for ya. But your real problem is gonna be shaking your undying admiration for a player who's now with one of our, if not the biggest rival, the PATS have. Time to shift gears, stop letting everybody try to push that button, or WE WON"T STOP! You're still sleeping with the enemy, so to speak. Ya know, many of us loved Wes as a PAT at one time too, some more than others, but he's the enemy now who kinda messed up on and off the field which lead to his own demise, DA is our guy, and to hell with ANYBODY, fan or player, who tries to buck the PATRIOT WAY! It has been and still is a proven and successful way and has elevated what was OUR historically irrelevant Patriots to the throne as THE ELITE NFL FRANCHISE. With all due respect to you, of course.......

     



    Don't get me wrong, I will be cheering for Amendola to do well.  THis doesn't change the fact that I'm a huge TFB, BB and Patriots fan.  I have been high on Amendola when he first came into the league, he has always fit the Welker mold.  I feel a bit for him having to always follow in his foot steps, college, Pats but I think he is a very good talent and I enjoy watching the Amendola and Welker types play.  I worry about him staying healthy.  But if he can then great, he is going to step in and help the team win and probably add to the offense dynamic.

    But here is my problem.  Rusty comes on here from the get go, demisnishing Welkers production for the team, and saying Amendola does all these other things better.  HE LIES!!  His facts aren't true! And if anyone disagress he treats them like dirt, tells them they don't know anything about football, blah, blah, blah.  He has an agenda here, the Pats can do no wrong.  He acts like the high and mighty here, bashing others all the time. 

    Well I have facts to back up all his untruthful claims and I'm calling him out on it.  Just because we are Pats fans doesn't mean we have to agree with every move they make.  I thought it was a mistake letting Welker go, Rusty has constanly bashed me for voicing my opinion and has used false facts, false information in order to bash me.  So I am providing facts to my claim and to call him out on his untruthful claims.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Welker vs Amendola Metrics

    In response to RallyC's comment:

     

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    In response to RallyC's comment:

     


    Come on...There is absolutely no way a true comparison, or better yet, a VALID comparison can be made between the two, YET. All that we know for sure is that Amendola is bigger, faster, stronger, and much younger and in his prime. With TB as his QB, there is no doubt he will benefit just as Welker did, statistically. The one thing we do know for sure is that DA hasn't had the opportunity to play for the Pats in a Superbowl and an ACF Champ game in concecutive years and drop the two biggest balls of his life. As we know,  Wes has..... and he failed miserably! My bet is that DA gets a ring while he's with the PATS. One more thing, DA still has more of his original hair, too!

     

     




     

    You have not been paying attention, frien!!  Rusty has been on here day in and day out stating all these things about how Amendola lines up out of the slot more then Welker, how Amendola lines up on the outside so much more then Welker and has done so much better then Welker has on the deeper passes.  It's all false!  He admits he says things "for effect".  Rusty has an agenda, he his here to push it whether it's true or not.  Rusty starts this thread to try and debunk my statements in a previous threat, what he doesn't understand is I have the facts to prove what he says are complete lies.

    Listen, I hope Amendola does great. I hope he helps them win a SB or two or three, but if Rusty is going to come on here and bash a receiver that had major produstion for the team and glorify an unproven player then that's just silly.  Rusty is a fraud!!  There are a few who buy into his gimmick and false words, that is a few people to many imo. 

    If he would just come on here and say he hopes this or that can happen or that Amendola is close to Welker in this situation but to come here and lie about Amendola doing certain things better then Welker when in fact that's not true then he is a fraud.

     


    OK, Well if this Rusty character causes you angst, then I feel for ya. But your real problem is gonna be shaking your undying admiration for a player who's now with one of our, if not the biggest rival, the PATS have. Time to shift gears, stop letting everybody try to push that button, or WE WON"T STOP! You're still sleeping with the enemy, so to speak. Ya know, many of us loved Wes as a PAT at one time too, some more than others, but he's the enemy now who kinda messed up on and off the field which lead to his own demise, DA is our guy, and to hell with ANYBODY, fan or player, who tries to buck the PATRIOT WAY! It has been and still is a proven and successful philosophy that has elevated what was once OUR historically irrelevant Patriots to the throne as THE ELITE NFL FRANCHISE. With all due respect to you, of course.......

     

     




     

    I actually wanted Amendola since 2010 when they played St Louis (and almost lost) in the pre-season. Too bad he has had injuries, but I thought then he looked like a kid who could do special things in this NE offense. 

    Losing Welker stinks. Amendola can be a good fit here too. The offense will feature more Hernandez too. 

    I don't for the life of me understand why this has to be a black and white NE lost vs Welker lost argument. 

    It's not. 

    Welker took the best deal on the table. NE got a player who might fit some things they want to do a little differently (stick to 2TE offense). Both Wes and NE lose the security of playing in a comfort zone. 

    C'est la vie. 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from RallyC. Show RallyC's posts

    Re: Welker vs Amendola Metrics

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    In response to RallyC's comment:

     


     


    OK, Well if this Rusty character causes you angst, then I feel for ya. But your real problem is gonna be shaking your undying admiration for a player who's now with one of our, if not the biggest rival, the PATS have. Time to shift gears, stop letting everybody try to push that button, or WE WON"T STOP! You're still sleeping with the enemy, so to speak. Ya know, many of us loved Wes as a PAT at one time too, some more than others, but he's the enemy now who kinda messed up on and off the field which lead to his own demise, DA is our guy, and to hell with ANYBODY, fan or player, who tries to buck the PATRIOT WAY! It has been and still is a proven and successful way and has elevated what was OUR historically irrelevant Patriots to the throne as THE ELITE NFL FRANCHISE. With all due respect to you, of course.......

     

     



     

    Don't get me wrong, I will be cheering for Amendola to do well.  THis doesn't change the fact that I'm a huge TFB, BB and Patriots fan.  I have been high on Amendola when he first came into the league, he has always fit the Welker mold.  I feel a bit for him having to always follow in his foot steps, college, Pats but I think he is a very good talent and I enjoy watching the Amendola and Welker types play.  I worry about him staying healthy.  But if he can then great, he is going to step in and help the team win and probably add to the offense dynamic.

    But here is my problem.  Rusty comes on here from the get go, demisnishing Welkers production for the team, and saying Amendola does all these other things better.  HE LIES!!  His facts aren't true! And if anyone disagress he treats them like dirt, tells them they don't know anything about football, blah, blah, blah.  He has an agenda here, the Pats can do no wrong.  He acts like the high and mighty here, bashing others all the time. 

    Well I have facts to back up all his untruthful claims and I'm calling him out on it.  Just because we are Pats fans doesn't mean we have to agree with every move they make.  I thought it was a mistake letting Welker go, Rusty has constanly bashed me for voicing my opinion and has used false facts, false information in order to bash me.  So I am providing facts to my claim and to call him out on his untruthful claims.


    OK, then, well stated. Sounds like your still with the team......So if Rusty got personal, then I imagine you have every reason to kick his azz! Go gett'm! Do yourself a favor though and hide that I love Wes button from him. I'm sure he's gonna be reaching for that on ya!

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: Welker vs Amendola Metrics

    The only metric I'll be following is the one that tracks how many times he is taken out of the game after being hit.  I'll assume that if he stays healthy he will be good.  Heck, Edelman started playing very well the few games he could stay on the field.

    Therein is the only metric that matters for Amendola; can he stay on the field?  Were his injuries truly flukes, or is his body better suited for playing golf?  We've been burned by taking chances on injury prone players.  BTW, there is a difference between taking a chance on a player recovering from a one-off injury and someone who is frequently injured.

    I'll hope for the best.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from tanbass. Show tanbass's posts

    Re: Welker vs Amendola Metrics

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     But here is my problem.  Rusty comes on here from the get go, demisnishing Welkers production for the team, and saying Amendola does all these other things better.  HE LIES!!  His facts aren't true! And if anyone disagress he treats them like dirt, tells them they don't know anything about football, blah, blah, blah.  He has an agenda here, the Pats can do no wrong.  He acts like the high and mighty here, bashing others all the time. 



    Do yourself a huge favor, and just put that lonely little attention starved f-cktard on ignore. I find the forums much more enjoyable w/o having to listen to his childish BS in every freaking thread.....It never changes.

    Brady sucks(post season), the shotgun is the reason we suck, the entire league is against us, the world is against BB & jealous too, Everyone here attacks him first, people follow him around the forum, blah blah blah....day after day after day. Ignore is your friend bro!!

    Rusty leads a very pathetic little life where he spends ungodly amounts of time in a football forum, telling a bunch of starngers how smart he is, how he "owns" people during arguments, how great his job is, how uneducated everyone else is....it's beyond pathetic. Whats really scary is that he can't see how much 99% of this message board thinks he's an absolute tool, and he's the joke of the forum. Don't watse your time feeding his need for attention.....let it go.....if everyone did that, the little annoying gnat would leave.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Welker vs Amendola Metrics

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    Has anyone come across any stats to compare these two? I haven't seen much in the area of stats barring the drop rate which Amendola is clearly superior.

    But, I was wondering mostly about amount of targets and any other data we can look at to compare.

     




    WHY? Who cares? THey are not the same player. Would you want to compare Welker to Harvin if Harvin were coming here?

    DA can play Welker's role but I do not think they WANT him to come in and try to clone Wes. If we have inuries like last year DA may very well end up doing much of those things and of course he will do some of it. But he is a little bigger and a little faster and uses MORE OF THE FIELD than Welker was asked to. DA is not MOss either. But he will be used more on the outside than Wes was. Even when it is only to help open the middle for a TE or for RUNNING THE BALL with Gronk and Ballard (or Hern or all three).

    Stop trying to make this a swap. IT IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE. If it ends up being a swap it willl be because of injuries.

     

     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Welker vs Amendola Metrics

    In response to carawaydj's comment:

    The only metric I'll be following is the one that tracks how many times he is taken out of the game after being hit.  I'll assume that if he stays healthy he will be good.  Heck, Edelman started playing very well the few games he could stay on the field.

    Therein is the only metric that matters for Amendola; can he stay on the field?  Were his injuries truly flukes, or is his body better suited for playing golf?  We've been burned by taking chances on injury prone players.  BTW, there is a difference between taking a chance on a player recovering from a one-off injury and someone who is frequently injured.

    I'll hope for the best.



    !!!

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Welker vs Amendola Metrics

    In response to RallyC's comment:


    OK, then, well stated. Sounds like your still with the team......So if Rusty got personal, then I imagine you have every reason to kick his azz! Go gett'm! Do yourself a favor though and hide that I love Wes button from him. I'm sure he's gonna be reaching for that on ya!



    Thanks!  He can use the Welker comments all he wants, but he is just being a hypocrite using lies and untruthes defending his love for BB and Kraft and they they can do no wrong crap.  At least my arguments for making a point about Welker have been true, based on facts.  He will go to any length to protect BB and Kraft, even if its to make comments based on lies just to get his way and have others be on his side.  Rusty is a fraud!!

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Welker vs Amendola Metrics

    In response to tanbass' comment:


    Do yourself a huge favor, and just put that lonely little attention starved f-cktard on ignore. I find the forums much more enjoyable w/o having to listen to his childish BS in every freaking thread.....It never changes.

     

    Brady sucks(post season), the shotgun is the reason we suck, the entire league is against us, the world is against BB & jealous too, Everyone here attacks him first, people follow him around the forum, blah blah blah....day after day after day. Ignore is your friend bro!!

    Rusty leads a very pathetic little life where he spends ungodly amounts of time in a football forum, telling a bunch of starngers how smart he is, how he "owns" people during arguments, how great his job is, how uneducated everyone else is....it's beyond pathetic. Whats really scary is that he can't see how much 99% of this message board thinks he's an absolute tool, and he's the joke of the forum. Don't watse your time feeding his need for attention.....let it go.....if everyone did that, the little annoying gnat would leave.



    I agree and maybe that will be what I do in the near future. But for now I'm calling him out on this.  Because not only does he do it with me, he does it to most.  The dude will argue and push his points even if they are not true.  He will toss out so much crap, kind of like he is trying to baffle everyone with BS, that he ends up taking up the majority of threads with his arguments.  Arguments that don't support any facts. Arguments that are full of holes and lies.  Arguments where he has stated making up numbers for "effect".  Rusty is a fraud!!

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Welker vs Amendola Metrics

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    Let me just put this here from the thread I linked to above..

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    Fun video for sure. It will be exciting to see what he can do in NE and see what the Pats have in store for him.

    Btw, he can get down field at times but that video shows how easily he is tackled and his yards after catch are not impressive. Certainly not better then Welkers.


    I know I will get slammed here for mentioning Welker but Rusty has gone on record over and over, post after post, thread after thread telling untruths just to push his agenda here, tow the company line and push Amendola and berate Welker.

    But the things he says over and over are not true.

    Rusty has said Welker was basically only a slot WR.  That Amendola lines up on the outside a lot more, that Amendola lines up in more positions then Welker has.  That Amendola runs more screen passes and can be better at running those.

    Well let me spew the facts here... 

    Since 2009 Danny Amendola has ran a higher percentage of his routes from the slot (85.3%) then Welker has (73.8%)

    While Rusty also likes to make a big deal how Amendola is a better deep receiver then Welker is.  Since 2009 out of 2104 routes ran Welker has been targeted as a deep receiver  38 times with 17 receptions for 655 yards.  An average of 38.5 yards per deep reception.  Out of 1085 routes ran Amendola was targeted 18 times with 5 receptions for 163 yards.  An average of 32.6 yards per reception.

    In another thread Rust said how much better the Pats will do with adding Amendola into screen passes, something Rusty said Welker didn't do much.  In 2012 Welker was targeted 22 time on screen passes while Amondola just 7.

    As you can see Rusty just throw's out numbers and stats as well as false statements.  The things he says is just not true.  He has an agenda here regardless if what he says is true or not.  How can people believe a word he says?

     

     



     



    Well, for one ... most of those reps are probably in the stack formation NE loves to use to mask the fact that they really have two slot type recievers in Hern and Welker. So essentially, Wes is a slot, even if he isn't nominally in that setup. And even when they run him on the outside, he's running a slot tree. He doesn't run ins, hitches, etc, just short comebacks, slants, picks, screens, and a "go" if there is no one behind the corner.

    Amendola, *does* do more than that from the X/Z position. I can literally show you video demonstrating it.

     

    Also, your numbers are wierd ... here is what I have from "splits" on three different websites for 2012. I'm not sure. At any rate, being targeted just 38 times out of 2014 routes on "deep" passes, I assume over 20, is really not a whole lot at all. Neither guy is a deep route runner. But DA has better potential there. Sure he isn't as quick as Wes, but he is bigger, stronger, and faster. So he might not be "uncoverable" in the slot like Wes is, but he should be more diverse within what NE hopes to do, which is kick Hernandez inside where he can assist in blocking and make the 2TE setup really sing.

    Long/Intermediate Passes - 10+

    DA: 13 rec 309 yds 

    WW: 14 rec 359 yds

    Long Passes Only - 20+

    DA: 4 rec 138 yds

    WW: 3 rec 99 yds

    Keeping in mind that Welker was targeted 175 times to Amendola's 101, you have to see, they almost never ran Wes on "long routes" as those three were likely just "go" routes from opportunity (spotting that the safety had completely left the top naked). 

    Wes is elite in the slot, and on short routes, but his height is a major disadvantage running outside routes; he77, we've even seen BB try to bring Edelman in more just because he adds that dimension, though Edelman is so much worse at everything else and is injured all the time. 

    Neither guy is a deep threat, but Amendola can do more for NE on that front based purely on his ability to create separation after 10 yards, and his height/wingspan to compete outside his frame. 

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Welker vs Amendola Metrics

    In response to zbellino's comment:


    Well, for one ... most of those reps are probably in the stack formation NE loves to use to mask the fact that they really have two slot type recievers in Hern and Welker. So essentially, Wes is a slot, even if he isn't nominally in that setup. And even when they run him on the outside, he's running a slot tree. He doesn't run ins, hitches, etc, just short comebacks, slants, picks, screens, and a "go" if there is no one behind the corner.

     

    Amendola, *does* do more than that from the X/Z position. I can literally show you video demonstrating it.

     

    Also, your numbers are wierd ... here is what I have from "splits" on three different websites for 2012. I'm not sure. At any rate, being targeted just 38 times out of 2014 routes on "deep" passes, I assume over 20, is really not a whole lot at all. Neither guy is a deep route runner. But DA has better potential there. Sure he isn't as quick as Wes, but he is bigger, stronger, and faster. So he might not be "uncoverable" in the slot like Wes is, but he should be more diverse within what NE hopes to do, which is kick Hernandez inside where he can assist in blocking and make the 2TE setup really sing.

    Long/Intermediate Passes - 10+

    DA: 13 rec 309 yds 

    WW: 14 rec 359 yds

    Long Passes Only - 20+

    DA: 4 rec 138 yds

    WW: 3 rec 99 yds

    Keeping in mind that Welker was targeted 175 times to Amendola's 101, you have to see, they almost never ran Wes on "long routes" as those three were likely just "go" routes from opportunity (spotting that the safety had completely left the top naked). 

    Wes is elite in the slot, and on short routes, but his height is a major disadvantage running outside routes; he77, we've even seen BB try to bring Edelman in more just because he adds that dimension, though Edelman is so much worse at everything else and is injured all the time. 

    Neither guy is a deep threat, but Amendola can do more for NE on that front based purely on his ability to create separation after 10 yards, and his height/wingspan to compete outside his frame. 




    Well I provided numbers and a link to back up my numbers. I'm sorry if they are weird but thats what they report.  And it is from a legit site, referenced by a ton of media as well as analysist.

    The point is I posted and backed up my claims with numbers and references.  Rusty makes comments that are his opinion, they are not facts, yet he tends to treat them as such, and then bashes people if they don't agree.  He spins everything others say is true, he tows the company, he has an agenda here.  

    No you mention 3 different web sites, care to post links that contradicts my numbers?

    And your other statements are your opinion, yet you are writing them like they are facts.

    Welker is 5'9, Amendola is 5'11".  I really don't think two inches is going to be a huge factor here in a deep pass route.  If it was like 5'9" compared to 6'2" then yes, I would agree.  Yet I have seen where Deion Branch is able to go deep and he is the same height as Welker.  Come on, wingspan, separation... If that was the case then Matthew Slater would be out running the deeper routes instead of Amendola as his height, wingspan is greater then Amendolas.

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Welker vs Amendola Metrics

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    In response to zbellino's comment:

     


    Well, for one ... most of those reps are probably in the stack formation NE loves to use to mask the fact that they really have two slot type recievers in Hern and Welker. So essentially, Wes is a slot, even if he isn't nominally in that setup. And even when they run him on the outside, he's running a slot tree. He doesn't run ins, hitches, etc, just short comebacks, slants, picks, screens, and a "go" if there is no one behind the corner.

     

    Amendola, *does* do more than that from the X/Z position. I can literally show you video demonstrating it.

     

    Also, your numbers are wierd ... here is what I have from "splits" on three different websites for 2012. I'm not sure. At any rate, being targeted just 38 times out of 2014 routes on "deep" passes, I assume over 20, is really not a whole lot at all. Neither guy is a deep route runner. But DA has better potential there. Sure he isn't as quick as Wes, but he is bigger, stronger, and faster. So he might not be "uncoverable" in the slot like Wes is, but he should be more diverse within what NE hopes to do, which is kick Hernandez inside where he can assist in blocking and make the 2TE setup really sing.

    Long/Intermediate Passes - 10+

    DA: 13 rec 309 yds 

    WW: 14 rec 359 yds

    Long Passes Only - 20+

    DA: 4 rec 138 yds

    WW: 3 rec 99 yds

    Keeping in mind that Welker was targeted 175 times to Amendola's 101, you have to see, they almost never ran Wes on "long routes" as those three were likely just "go" routes from opportunity (spotting that the safety had completely left the top naked). 

    Wes is elite in the slot, and on short routes, but his height is a major disadvantage running outside routes; he77, we've even seen BB try to bring Edelman in more just because he adds that dimension, though Edelman is so much worse at everything else and is injured all the time. 

    Neither guy is a deep threat, but Amendola can do more for NE on that front based purely on his ability to create separation after 10 yards, and his height/wingspan to compete outside his frame. 

     




     

    Well I provided numbers and a link to back up my numbers. I'm sorry if they are weird but thats what they report.  And it is from a legit site, referenced by a ton of media as well as analysist.

    The point is I posted and backed up my claims with numbers and references.  Rusty makes comments that are his opinion, they are not facts, yet he tends to treat them as such, and then bashes people if they don't agree.  He spins everything others say is true, he tows the company, he has an agenda here.  

    No you mention 3 different web sites, care to post links that contradicts my numbers?

    And your other statements are your opinion, yet you are writing them like they are facts.

    Welker is 5'9, Amendola is 5'11".  I really don't think two inches is going to be a huge factor here in a deep pass route.  If it was like 5'9" compared to 6'2" then yes, I would agree.  Yet I have seen where Deion Branch is able to go deep and he is the same height as Welker.  Come on, wingspan, separation... If that was the case then Matthew Slater would be out running the deeper routes instead of Amendola as his height, wingspan is greater then Amendolas.

     

    First, I don't care what Rusty says. I'm just talking about Wes vs Amendola. You and Rusty can beef all night long for all I care. I'll say my peice and then I'm going out because it's Friday and I have better things to do.

    1.) Mine are taken from splits on SI.com, ESPN.com, Foxsports.com, and Yahoo.com (IIRC they have them too). They are readily available to all. Where are yours from?

    2.) There are two components to competing on the edge. Size and top speed. 5'11 to 5'9" makes a difference -- a big difference. Saying it doesn't flies in the face of the last 30 years of aerial football man. Two inches traditionally translates across the body, meaning longer arms, bigger hands, a wider torso. Even though both Wes and Amendola had 30 inch jumps, Amendola is going to have a percieved 4-6 inch advantage (or more if he is a freak) vertically because of this, and that will translate to balls slightly outside the frame (cue SB46 video of Wes being a couple inches away from having an easily securable catch). 

    3.) Deion Branch was a whole lot faster than Welker. When you have top speed you can still run deep routes even if your height isn't there. Just like some slower WRs will run deep routes based purely on their size (see Jackson from SD). Amendola is faster too. Neither of them are as quick as Wes but that is a given. I've seen Welker run down from behind by 43 defensive ends over the long haul. He just doesn't have the top speed to generate separation after 10-15 yards or so, he relies on his elite quickness to get a few steps in short and then loses himself in the mix after the catch. No one has been better at that in his time in the NFL. 

    It's just a fact that Wes is quick not fast, not an opinion. But if you need numbers ... courtesy of NFLDraftScouts.com.

     

    Amedola 4.58 40yd 4.25 Shuttle

    Welker   4.65 40yd 4.02 Shuttle

    One is faster the other is quicker.

    Though if you have actually watched both players it should be apparent to the naked eye. A 10th of a second matters on routes longer than 10-15 yards. It makes a player more useful on the edge. It is separation. Just like two inches of frame size, which normally carries over to longer arms, bigger hands, etc, makes a difference.

    So let's not pretend that he is something that he is not, which is what you are doing. I get you are sore because "your guy" got away. But you are building Wes into something he wasn't. He was the premier slot reciever in the NFL. Unfortunately, NE already re-upped the premier slot TE making Wes a redundant piece, and limiting his value to the team. 

    In a perfect world, they get to keep everyone. They stuck a value on him. I happen to agree with that, and have been vocal about it for a few seasons.

    What Rusty is saying about Amendola's potential versatility is what every outlet that has a couple brain cells is saying. It's just out there. He has more upside in this system, at his age, as it is run now and how BB evidently would like to run it going forward.  

    4.) Also, think what you want, post-non-contextualized numbers .... NE doesn't run Welker on long routes, that is enough proof. 38 catches out of 2014 routes, even if those numbers look really wonky considering I'm seeing him catch about 4 balls a season on deep routes on MY splits, is really really low. 

    Heck, Amendola has almost as many 20+ (in the air, not including YAC) rec over the last few complete years in about half as many games.  

    5.) They run wierd stack patterns to keep him inside. They run odd sets where Hernandez or Stevan Ridley, or Vereen are split out wide. They tried to bring Edelman in, starting him OVER Welker to begin last season, and a lot of Edelman's time was spent lined at X. Wes has a small frame and is really outsized by even average corners out there.

    He isn't suited to play outside. 

    6.) And yes, they BOTH have primarily played out of the slot, but Amendola has far more upside as an X/Y combo than Welker, who is basically just a Y type WR. The fact that NE paid Amendola basically the same amount that they would have paid Welker (I know about the guaranteed dollars) should demonstrate that they see some value that equates. I don't assume that value is as another slot log-jam. They probably want to use Amendola the way they've tried using Edelman. 

     
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