Welker vs Amendola Metrics

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Welker vs Amendola Metrics

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    In response to zbellino's comment:

     


    That's the only reason I question the signing. NE has too many fragile players and have added another. I think Amendola is probably going to do what they envisioned Edelman doing, kind of like a Victor Cruz type role, where he plays outside and inside combo in a way that Welker really just cannot.

     



    Fair enough.  I hope he can, even though he hasn't done anything to show me he can.  Hopefully they can turn him into that type of player because IF they can and he can stay on the field then it will be great.  Time for BB to work his magic!!

     



    Well, sure. No one has proven anything to anyone about anything. It's always about projecting what a player could do. Victor Cruz is a slot in NY. If he were here he would most certainly not be. I don't think anyone would doubt he would most likely outperform Welker at Split End just because he had been playing the slot prior to the move. 

    His sheer physical presence would dictate that.

    The fact, which we do know at this point, is that Welker cannot be that kind of player. The other fact we know is that Danny Amendola has the triangle numbers (hieght, speed) that point to him being more effective in that role and that last season he was targetted more often deep than Welker has ever been per route, and that his average depth per target was higher. 

    Perhaps a reason why BB decided to move on and ultimately offered Amendola more money than they offered Welker.

    I don't think it requires any "magic" at all. Just let the guy run his routes. 5'11" is pretty stock standard for a split end, while it would make a rather large slot player. He "fits" the mold pretty well as the "hybrid" they've been looking for. 

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Welker vs Amendola Metrics

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

     


    Ahh, thanks Z. Appreciate your contrrbuting that.  What I don't appreciate is a Welker fanboy-tinged analysis.  After you post those, it's clear Brady to 28 year old Amendola here with a loaded cast and Brady is going to prove a great ROI as opposed to Brady to a 32 year old Welker.

     

     


    Hahahahaha!  Hahahahaha! Let me catch my breath!!  Hahahaha!

     

    So, let me get this straight....  TRUE facts that I researched, found and provided links for are now considered Welker fanboy-tinged analysis! 

    Hahahaha!  What a fraud you are Rusty!!

     




    You didn't provide jack squat. Z did.

     

    Isn't it somewhat funny that you, Prolate and Z, all the Welker lovers and Brady lovers, etc, are also newer fans?

    No one can say wat their first game was, talk about this gteam pre Brady in 2001 or anything.

    Not a coincidence. You guys started following this team after in 2001.

    I can always tell who the long time, loyal diehards are.   No one cares about Welker's 100 catches per year if he's dropping balls at key times or not part of a winner. He had NUMEROUS chances, mostly in 2007, 2011 and 2012.

     

     

     



    What ARE you talking about. 

     

    1.) I'm not backing Welker. I'm saying Amendola is a better fit. He's been an expensive spare part since they drafted Hernandez. And I've been saying it FOR YEARS! I mean, I've literally been calling for letting Welker go, and getting someone who can run a post or fly route, and getting told it was nonsense, and that "deep threats" were meaningless for YEARS. Years. 

    2.) I've been a fan a lot longer than that. I have a hat signed by Irving Fryar and Ronnie Lippett and a host of other guys sitting in a storage box back home with all my old football gear. My first game was 1987 vs the Indianapolis Colts in Sullivan Stadium. When was yours?

    3.) I basically have called Welker out for being a choke artist close to 100 times. The dropped catch .... you know the one that goes with his other 15-20 drops he has each season?

    4.) Just because I recognize that Welker does some things amazingly well, for instance getting open from the slot, doesn't mean that I think he is a good fit for what NE needs, or that I'm a Welker fanboy. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Welker vs Amendola Metrics

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:



    You didn't provide jack squat. Z did.

     

    Isn't it somewhat funny that you, Prolate, etc, all the Welker lovers and Brady lovers, etc, are also newer fans?

    No one can say wat their first game was, talk about this gteam pre Brady in 2001 or anything.

    Not a coincidence. You guys started following this team after in 2001.

    I can always tell who the long time, loyal diehards are.   No one cares about Welker's 100 catches per year if he's dropping balls at key times or not part of a winner. He had NUMEROUS chances, mostly in 2007, 2011 and 2012.

     



    Numbers don't lie!!  I gave you the numbers!  Now spin everything else anyway you want.  Z can give his opinion but the numbers are based on actual production from a given spot.  Just for kicks, does zbellino watch the games live or have the coaches film off NFL network?

    And it doesn't matter when people started to follow the Patriots.  It has no bearing on anything that's relevent here other than maybe knowing what BB has done with the team over the years.  I watched BB coach the Brown and I have watched him coach the Patriots the whole time he has been here. 

    So I guess none of Amendola's numbers matter since he hasn't been part of a winner?  Guess what, while he has been there they have never had a winning season. 

    Man, your comments are horrible, they have no merit.  You are just throwing out garbage, as usual.  WHAT IS YOUR POINT??

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from oklahomapatriot. Show oklahomapatriot's posts

    Re: Welker vs Amendola Metrics

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    In response to kansaspatriot's comment:

     

    Here's the ony metric that matters. WW played poker with BB, and lost. Thank you for your service, and we won't forget you dropped that pass in the SB.  See ya

     

     

    Bill Belichick and the Patriots vs Wes Welker.  Who wins this poker match?




    We all lost on that one.

     




    Dang dude, you do some good work

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Brady2Amendola. Show Brady2Amendola's posts

    Re: Welker vs Amendola Metrics

    http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/63317/stats-to-know-welker-vs-amendola

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Welker vs Amendola Metrics

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     



    You didn't provide jack squat. Z did.

     

    Isn't it somewhat funny that you, Prolate, etc, all the Welker lovers and Brady lovers, etc, are also newer fans?

    No one can say wat their first game was, talk about this gteam pre Brady in 2001 or anything.

    Not a coincidence. You guys started following this team after in 2001.

    I can always tell who the long time, loyal diehards are.   No one cares about Welker's 100 catches per year if he's dropping balls at key times or not part of a winner. He had NUMEROUS chances, mostly in 2007, 2011 and 2012.

     

     



    Numbers don't lie!!  I gave you the numbers!  Now spin everything else anyway you want.  Z can give his opinion but the numbers are based on actual production from a given spot.  Just for kicks, does zbellino watch the games live or have the coaches film off NFL network?

     

    And it doesn't matter when people started to follow the Patriots.  It has no bearing on anything that's relevent here other than maybe knowing what BB has done with the team over the years.  I watched BB coach the Brown and I have watched him coach the Patriots the whole time he has been here. 

    So I guess none of Amendola's numbers matter since he hasn't been part of a winner?  Guess what, while he has been there they have never had a winning season. 

    Man, your comments are horrible, they have no merit.  You are just throwing out garbage, as usual.  WHAT IS YOUR POINT??

     




     

    There are very few statements I hate more than numbers don't lie. 

    Before Welker came to NE I could have said the EXACT SAME THING about Wes. He hadn't done squat, had never had a season with a positive DVOA ranking. He was basically a scrub slot player from Miami that BB took a risk spending a few draft picks on trading for. 

    The question is how does someone "project" into a system. 

    We can guess if DA is healthy he projects a certain way. 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from oklahomapatriot. Show oklahomapatriot's posts

    Re: Welker vs Amendola Metrics

    Here's the stat I like:

    Amendola’s success rate is considerably higher at 21.9 receptions per drop.

    Welker’s 11 drops last season were second-most in the NFL. Amendola’s drop rate (2.1 percent of targets dropped) rated second-lowest in the NFL.

     

    Sounds like BB made the right call

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Welker vs Amendola Metrics

    In response to kansaspatriot's comment:

    Here's the stat I like:

    Amendola’s success rate is considerably higher at 21.9 receptions per drop.

    Welker’s 11 drops last season were second-most in the NFL. Amendola’s drop rate (2.1 percent of targets dropped) rated second-lowest in the NFL.

     

    Sounds like BB made the right call




    If drops are your sole criterion then yeah.

    If Amendola spends the season injured, and Wes is completely healthy it will look bad. 

    I tend to agree with Erik Frenz though. It's more important that a.) Hernandez and Gronk stay healthy. Two straight post-season games without Gronk, and another on again off again injury season for Hernandez spell trouble, b.) that they fill the Z role that has been a JAG placeholder since Moss dried up and left, and c.) improve the defense that allowed about 30 points per game last postseason, and was again one of the worst pass defenses in the league. 

    If those three things happen, it won't matter if Danny Amendola misses some games. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Welker vs Amendola Metrics

    In response to kansaspatriot's comment:

    Here's the stat I like:

    Amendola’s success rate is considerably higher at 21.9 receptions per drop.

    Welker’s 11 drops last season were second-most in the NFL. Amendola’s drop rate (2.1 percent of targets dropped) rated second-lowest in the NFL.

     

    Sounds like BB made the right call



    Couple of things that kind of may distort that stat. One Welker didn't play in a cozy dome, Amendola did. It's probably a little debatable that Tom throws the ball a little harder than Bradford did. And do they include playoff games into that equation? Because if they do, then those are played in cold weather, against good defenses. And lastly, Welker has caught a lot more balls...been on the field much more...that has to wear down your body, concentration, etc...compared to what Amendola has had to deal with.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Welker vs Amendola Metrics

    In response to zbellino's comment:

     


    What ARE you talking about. 

     

    1.) I'm not backing Welker. I'm saying Amendola is a better fit. He's been an expensive spare part since they drafted Hernandez. And I've been saying it FOR YEARS! I mean, I've literally been calling for letting Welker go, and getting someone who can run a post or fly route, and getting told it was nonsense, and that "deep threats" were meaningless for YEARS. Years. 

    2.) I've been a fan a lot longer than that. I have a hat signed by Irving Fryar and Ronnie Lippett and a host of other guys sitting in a storage box back home with all my old football gear. My first game was 1987 vs the Indianapolis Colts in Sullivan Stadium. When was yours?

    3.) I basically have called Welker out for being a choke artist close to 100 times. The dropped catch .... you know the one that goes with his other 15-20 drops he has each season?

    4.) Just because I recognize that Welker does some things amazingly well, for instance getting open from the slot, doesn't mean that I think he is a good fit for what NE needs, or that I'm a Welker fanboy. 



    hey Z, who are you arguing with?  I'm confused?  Nonetheless, I have some problems with your comments, regardless who you are addressing.

    You totally lost me and lost all credit with this statement concerning Welker...

    "He's been an expensive spare part since they drafted Hernandez. And I've been saying it FOR YEARS!"

    That has to be one of the very worst statements I have read on here outside of Rusty's posts.  Hernandez?  You mean the guy who can't stay on the field either? He has had one solid year and thank goodness Welker was still on the team because somebody had to participate in getting the production for the team, it certainly wasn't going to be Hernandez.

    Hahaha! Since you brought up drops, lets talk about those.  I guess Calvin Johnson is pretty bad because he dropped 1 few then Welker and they both had almost identically the same number of catchable passes thrown to each of them...  Welker 133, Johnson 136.
    'Obviously it stands to reason that the more opportunity you have to drop a ball, the more balls you will drop.' And Welker is no where near the top of the list of highest drop rate receivers.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Welker vs Amendola Metrics

    In response to kansaspatriot's comment:

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    In response to kansaspatriot's comment:

     

    Here's the ony metric that matters. WW played poker with BB, and lost. Thank you for your service, and we won't forget you dropped that pass in the SB.  See ya

     

     

    Bill Belichick and the Patriots vs Wes Welker.  Who wins this poker match?




    We all lost on that one.

     

     




    Dang dude, you do some good work

     




    Hahaha, thanks man!

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Welker vs Amendola Metrics

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    In response to zbellino's comment:

     

     


    What ARE you talking about. 

     

    1.) I'm not backing Welker. I'm saying Amendola is a better fit. He's been an expensive spare part since they drafted Hernandez. And I've been saying it FOR YEARS! I mean, I've literally been calling for letting Welker go, and getting someone who can run a post or fly route, and getting told it was nonsense, and that "deep threats" were meaningless for YEARS. Years. 

    2.) I've been a fan a lot longer than that. I have a hat signed by Irving Fryar and Ronnie Lippett and a host of other guys sitting in a storage box back home with all my old football gear. My first game was 1987 vs the Indianapolis Colts in Sullivan Stadium. When was yours?

    3.) I basically have called Welker out for being a choke artist close to 100 times. The dropped catch .... you know the one that goes with his other 15-20 drops he has each season?

    4.) Just because I recognize that Welker does some things amazingly well, for instance getting open from the slot, doesn't mean that I think he is a good fit for what NE needs, or that I'm a Welker fanboy. 

     



    hey Z, who are you arguing with?  I'm confused?  Nonetheless, I have some problems with your comments, regardless who you are addressing.

     

    You totally lost me and lost all credit with this statement concerning Welker...

    "He's been an expensive spare part since they drafted Hernandez. And I've been saying it FOR YEARS!"

    That has to be one of the very worst statements I have read on here outside of Rusty's posts.  Hernandez?  You mean the guy who can't stay on the field either? He has had one solid year and thank goodness Welker was still on the team because somebody had to participate in getting the production for the team, it certainly wasn't going to be Hernandez.

    Hahaha! Since you brought up drops, lets talk about those.  I guess Calvin Johnson is pretty bad because he dropped 1 few then Welker and they both had almost identically the same number of catchable passes thrown to each of them...  Welker 133, Johnson 136.
    'Obviously it stands to reason that the more opportunity you have to drop a ball, the more balls you will drop.' And Welker is no where near the top of the list of highest drop rate receivers.

     



    Calvin Johnson isn't bad. But he drops the ball way too much. CJ, mucb like WW, is partly a factor of how often the team throws the ball to him. And yes, Welker, among people who qualify is near the top of the league in drops per attempt. I never said either player was "bad", so don't put words in my mouth. I said it's a big factor. Wes Welker drops a LOT of balls. It's a fact. It doesn't matter that CJ does too ... he also has the dropsies, but NE isn't offering him a bunch of money, so it's irrelevant. If they were, I would say ... do we really need another WR with the dropsies? Ending SB46 on five consecutive dropped passes, a couple by Welker wasn't bad enough to look at?

    Second, BB gave Hernandez the contract, not me. He then gave Amendola a contract worth more than what he offered Welker. 

    The reasons for keeping Hernandez, who only had one injury plagued season, over Welker who also had one injured season, are pretty easy to work out. He plays the slot, is very difficult to cover, and can actually block a DE or Lber for a runner. Welker only does two of those. That means Hern adds value to the RB position even while he lines up at WR. 

    Welker is a spare part because he is a slot in a 2TE offense ... where do you put him? They've been dancing around this for years. 

    Lastly, like almost everyone here ... I really don't give a rat's if you think I'm credibly or not. So you can lose that rhetoric. I'll just ignore it in the future. Or if you don't think I'm credible, don't respond to my posts? In my defense ... BB did precisely what I thought he should do ... can Welker, re-up Hernandez, move on in 2TE. 

    So I guess i'm in in-credible company here. 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Welker vs Amendola Metrics

    In response to zbellino's comment:

    There are very few statements I hate more than numbers don't lie. 

    Before Welker came to NE I could have said the EXACT SAME THING about Wes. He hadn't done squat, had never had a season with a positive DVOA ranking. He was basically a scrub slot player from Miami that BB took a risk spending a few draft picks on trading for. 

    The question is how does someone "project" into a system. 

    We can guess if DA is healthy he projects a certain way. 



    Look at the 2006 season Welker had with the Dolphins, the season before he became a Patriot.  67 receptions for 687 yards with Daunte Culpepper, Joey Herrington and Cleo Lemon at QB.  He was the teams leading receiver!!!  Chris Chambers of the dolphins made the Pro Bowl that year and Welker had more receptions, more yards and 3 fewer td's then Chris Chambers.  Welker probably should have made the Pro Bowl instead of him.  I don't think that would be a "scrub"

     

     

     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Welker vs Amendola Metrics

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    In response to zbellino's comment:

     

     

    There are very few statements I hate more than numbers don't lie. 

    Before Welker came to NE I could have said the EXACT SAME THING about Wes. He hadn't done squat, had never had a season with a positive DVOA ranking. He was basically a scrub slot player from Miami that BB took a risk spending a few draft picks on trading for. 

    The question is how does someone "project" into a system. 

    We can guess if DA is healthy he projects a certain way. 

     



    Look at the 2006 season Welker had with the Dolphins, the season before he became a Patriot.  67 receptions for 687 yards with Daunte Culpepper and Joey Herrington at QB.  He was the teams leading receiver!!!  I don't think that would be a "scrub"

     

     

     



    So wasn't Amendola? Your point?

    Nothing you said there mitigates the fact that Welker had done about as much as Amendola before he came here. 

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Welker vs Amendola Metrics

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    In response to zbellino's comment:

     

     

    There are very few statements I hate more than numbers don't lie. 

    Before Welker came to NE I could have said the EXACT SAME THING about Wes. He hadn't done squat, had never had a season with a positive DVOA ranking. He was basically a scrub slot player from Miami that BB took a risk spending a few draft picks on trading for. 

    The question is how does someone "project" into a system. 

    We can guess if DA is healthy he projects a certain way. 

     



    Look at the 2006 season Welker had with the Dolphins, the season before he became a Patriot.  67 receptions for 687 yards with Daunte Culpepper and Joey Herrington at QB.  He was the teams leading receiver!!!  I don't think that would be a "scrub"

     

     

     



    It's Harrington. And, I think it was Cleo Lemon who played there in 2006 as well.

     

     




    Hahah, I was updating it during your post.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Welker vs Amendola Metrics

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:


    The point is that Amendola's skill set helps diversify our offense and we don't need to overload the middle of the field anymore with Gronk, Hernandez and Welker.

     

    As Kraft said, that's too much money into one chunk of the field.

    Welker lost. That funny photo you made is Welker losing.  BB gave Hernandez, as the future slot player, a big chunk of the money Welkie wanted.

    You're just going to have get over it. You and PatsEng have a done quite a number with your antics here spamming the board losing your binky last week.

    GET OVER IT



    I'm over it as long as you don't continue to spew out false numbers, false statements to push your agenda.  Dude, you gotta admit everything you say is just your opinion, it's not fact!  So stop prentending your words are the facts.  They aren't, as a matter of fact your opinion is usually wrong when facts are checked and brought up into the discussion.  I owned you yesterday, I exposed you as the fraud that you are!! 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Welker vs Amendola Metrics

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    In response to TFB12's comment:



    It's Harrington.

     



    Rusty is butt hurt that he has been proven a fraud so now he has turned into the spelling cop!!  Hurray!!

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Welker vs Amendola Metrics

    As I've been saying all along, we'll see what happens when the season is played.  Sure, Amendola has some skills that project as positives in our offense.  But Welker does have a history of extraordinary production in this offense.  One hopes that Amendola helps diversify the offense a bit and replaces some of the production that Welker provided.  But at this point, we just don't know whether he can stay healthy, whether he and Brady can develop good chemistry, and whether he can contribute to the level Welker did for multiple seasons.  We'll see.  I don't think letting Welker go was a bad move necessarily. And I think picking up Amendola was a good one.  Ultimately, though, I think this offense needs a real permeter receiver, which is not what Amendola is.  If we get that, I think things will truly be improved. 

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from HOTBLITZ. Show HOTBLITZ's posts

    Re: Welker vs Amendola Metrics

    Wow Rusty, I've never seen anyone take it to you as bad at you've been crushed on this thread...

    I like alot of the stuff you've had to say in the past but you definitely got owned on this thread.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Welker vs Amendola Metrics

    In response to HOTBLITZ's comment:

    Wow Rusty, I've never seen anyone take it to you as bad at you've been crushed on this thread...

    I like alot of the stuff you've had to say in the past but you definitely got owned on this thread.




    I'm glad people are paying attention around here.  His nonsense needs to stop and the only way it can begin to stop is if he gets called out on all his BS and maybe, just maybe he might see it.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Welker vs Amendola Metrics

    I have been calling him out for 3 years and he seems to be getting worse with each ban and name change 

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: Welker vs Amendola Metrics

    Amendola was a stunning .3 seconds faster than Welker in the 3-cone drill pre-draft, and Welker is impressive.  Even Welker couldn't cover Amendola.  When Amendola stops, defensive guys are still running away from him when he catches the ball.

    Amendola's on-field performance in Saint Louis isn't that useful because he was the only offensive weapon that the team had and all of the opponents knew that he was it.  Sam Bradford was pitching him the ball.  No wonder he got pounded.

     
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