Re: Welker Wisely Decides to Play
posted at 5/15/2012 6:47 PM EDT
- TFB12
- Posts: 8393
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In Response to
Re: Welker Wisely Decides to Play:
9 mill for a slot WR? Jesus, what next? 9 million dollars for a kicker? Welker takes way too many hits to give him a long term deal, Welker is playing on a bum knee, Welker is a 33 year old WR. Wes Welker didn't make, what could've been, the biggest catch of our lives. I'd give him a 3 year 15 mill, at most.
Posted by 49Patriots
Welker just turned 31, so you are incorrect saying he is 33. A bum knee? Last season many people said he was faster now then he has ever been. Give me those bum knees any day.
As far as him not making the catch.. I'm a Brady fan and I still think the pass could have been better. With that said, how can you tell me that catch would have resulted in a SB win? Do you own a crystal ball? What if he makes that catch and then a defensive player makes a great play/hit and causes a fumble? What if the next play was a fumbled snap, int, RB? You can not say Wes was the reason the Pats lost. I wont list in this thread all the mishaps that contributed to losing the game but you have to be smarter then you are letting on.. you know there were several mistakes made by others in that game.
Give Wes a 3-4 yr deal loaded up front in case they chose to cut him in year 3 or 4. Done deal and move on.
The Pats don't have a player on the roster who can give them what WW gives them. D's respect Welker and thats the reason other areas on the field are open. You put someone else out there in his spot and D's move their coverage around to other players.
Re: Welker Wisely Decides to Play
posted at 5/15/2012 6:48 PM EDT
- pezz4pats
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Re: Welker Wisely Decides to Play:
In Response to Re: Welker Wisely Decides to Play : the issue is his agent has been telling him since teh end of the season that hes worth 10+ mil for 5 or 4 years and the pats will come around. whether he can bring himself down to accept 16 for 2 or 21 for 3, with 2 guaranteed, is a big question.
Posted by bredbru
You have private knowledge of what his agents have been telling him? And you have private knowledge of what the Pats are offering? Is that really the issue?
Please provide the proof of such knowledge.
Thank You.
Re: Welker Wisely Decides to Play
posted at 5/15/2012 6:49 PM EDT
- mia76
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Just another thought ... if Welker does sign a two or three year deal, that might be bad news for Edelman. I know everyone discounts JEs value as a receiver, but the only game he actually got to play as the starting slot he put up WW like numbers with 10 receptions. If Welker is signed for a few years and JE being on the last year of his rookie contract, his value to the team is diminished.
Re: Welker Wisely Decides to Play
posted at 5/15/2012 6:51 PM EDT
- bredbru
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Re: Welker Wisely Decides to Play:
I think this was a good move by Welker and good timing. Before the draft, maybe there is trade talk. No one really cares about him being around for workouts - he is not the kind of player you worry about on that kind of stuff. OTAs, not that important for him or the team, but ... it is a sign of good faith and loyalty to the team, and his presence will be a positive. I think his behavior through this period helps his negotiating position - he never had 'leverage' with the Pats in any real sense so he hasn't given up anything. His comments yesterday suggest that he and the team may actually be pretty close on a longer term deal and signing before OTAs is not a bad jesture on his part. I could see him signing a three year deal at something like 9M signing bonus, 3.5M, 3.5M, 8M - with only the first two years guaranteed. Both sides know it is really only a two year deal, but it feels better than 2/16M, and if he burns it up for two years it may actually be a three year deal - if he is a little less productive, they renegotiate after year two or he gets cut and can make any deal he can get elsewhere.
Posted by mia76
if that deal did happen, id say that woul be the deal that saves the most "face" for both.
good post.
Re: Welker Wisely Decides to Play
posted at 5/15/2012 7:16 PM EDT
- BabeParilli
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Re: Welker Wisely Decides to Play:
In Response to Re: Welker Wisely Decides to Play : Just FYI - the 9.5M is fully guaranteed as of the minute he signed. They could cut him tomorrow but they still owe hime the 9.5M.
Posted by mia76
Thanks for the clarification. All the more reason he has little to gripe about.
Re: Welker Wisely Decides to Play
posted at 5/15/2012 7:28 PM EDT
- mia76
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Re: Welker Wisely Decides to Play:
In Response to Re: Welker Wisely Decides to Play : if that deal did happen, id say that woul be the deal that saves the most "face" for both. good post.
Posted by bredbru
Yup - face is important on both sides. It also keeps WW in line with Wilfork in terms of yearly money, and I think that is also important for the team (and all the players.) I think they are both 'comparable' in terms of value, age, and being long term contributors.
People are always accusing the Pats of being cheap, but you look at the FAs that come in every year and all you hear is they 'want to experience this franchise'. So I don't think the Pats' reputation among the 1700 NFL players is as a cheap organization, but rather as a well run one. Part of that is maintain a delicate balance in their salary structure. They don't 'embarrass' their long time stars by hiring the 'new guys' above what they have been paying the 'old guys'. It is a form of respect that I think the whole team appreciates.
Re: Welker Wisely Decides to Play
posted at 5/15/2012 8:04 PM EDT
I love Wes and want him on the team.
Different thought for those in La La Land....how many people make $9.5M in their entire lives???
Re: Welker Wisely Decides to Play
posted at 5/15/2012 8:11 PM EDT
- Rocky
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Re: Welker Wisely Decides to Play:
I love Wes and want him on the team. Different thought for those in La La Land....how many people make $9.5M in their entire lives???
Posted by rainbowroosie
Count me in! I won Powerball!
Re: Welker Wisely Decides to Play
posted at 5/15/2012 8:43 PM EDT
- mia76
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In Response to
Re: Welker Wisely Decides to Play:
I love Wes and want him on the team. Different thought for those in La La Land....how many people make $9.5M in their entire lives???
Posted by rainbowroosie
Of course the other side to that is:
How many people can say they are the absolute best at their chosen role in life out of all 7 billion people in the world? And what is that fact worth?
(At this moment for 'slot receiver' the answer is $9.5M.)
Re: Welker Wisely Decides to Play
posted at 5/15/2012 8:47 PM EDT
In Response to
Re: Welker Wisely Decides to Play:
In Response to Re: Welker Wisely Decides to Play : Yup - face is important on both sides. It also keeps WW in line with Wilfork in terms of yearly money, and I think that is also important for the team (and all the players.) I think they are both 'comparable' in terms of value, age, and being long term contributors. People are always accusing the Pats of being cheap, but you look at the FAs that come in every year and all you hear is they 'want to experience this franchise'. So I don't think the Pats' reputation among the 1700 NFL players is as a cheap organization, but rather as a well run one. Part of that is maintain a delicate balance in their salary structure. They don't 'embarrass' their long time stars by hiring the 'new guys' above what they have been paying the 'old guys'. It is a form of respect that I think the whole team appreciates.
Posted by mia76
Good post. I think the Pats get an unfair rap for being cheap. They'll pay money for the players they think are going to make a big contribution for multiple years (Brady, Wilfork, Seymour at one time, Mankins). They're just careful not to eat up their cap space with a lot of guys who won't provide consistent high performance for a number of years.
Re: Welker Wisely Decides to Play
posted at 5/15/2012 8:47 PM EDT
In Response to
Re: Welker Wisely Decides to Play:
In Response to Re: Welker Wisely Decides to Play : Of course the other side to that is: How many people can say they are the absolute best at their chosen role in life out of all 7 billion people in the world? And what is that fact worth? (At this moment for 'slot receiver' the answer is $9.5M.)
Posted by mia76
Mia's on a roll.
Re: Welker Wisely Decides to Play
posted at 5/15/2012 8:59 PM EDT
- part-timer
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The quote I'm doing the right thing hoping to move things along that WW said seems to ring a bell about when VW signed his FT before finally working out his contract. Maby he has received some advice from VW on how to deal with the Pats.
Re: Welker Wisely Decides to Play
posted at 5/15/2012 9:16 PM EDT
They're called "cheap" just like when then media says they "cheated" for Spygate. "Cheap" in this case really means "knowing the market and usually right on when to pay a player or let them walk".
Each word is chose carefully and each provides a negative connotation to disparage the leaders of the Pats (Kraft, but mostly BB) due to jealousy.
The bottom line is BB knows the market, where it was, where it is and where it's going.
Period.
You don't pay Brady the most as a QB ever (until Indy waited to beat it), Mankins that kind of money, etc, while also tying down key players like Wilfork at top dollar, if you're cheap. One of the more ridiculous claims in the jealousy period by outsiders for this organzation.
Jealousy is an ugly, ugly trait.
Re: Welker Wisely Decides to Play
posted at 5/15/2012 9:32 PM EDT
- PatsGnome
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I disagree that Welker only has a couple of years left in him. The issue is the Patriots are running into is next season's free agency list for the team. As much as Gronkowski has been driving me crazy by acting inmature, both he and Hernandez are free agents and need to be resigned.
The team is trying to look towards the future and save money to try and resign both players. And these are not the only Patriot free agents in 2013. The Patriot's are being financially wise with the salary cap. Only poorly run teams would have signed Welker to a three to a five year contract.
Re: Welker Wisely Decides to Play
posted at 5/15/2012 9:43 PM EDT
Exactly. That's why NE was hoping Welker would take the 2 year deal upfront. I don't think it would kill them to give him a 3 year deal, but with slightly less money in the 3rd year.
Garantee the money up front in the first 2 years and then jsust build in bonuses in the 3rd year based on his production. I don't see that as a major issue for him if he wants to be here with Brady through 2014.
That should allow them to budget for Gronk and possibly Hernandez.
Re: Welker Wisely Decides to Play
posted at 5/15/2012 10:30 PM EDT
- whipitgood
- Posts: 18
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I'm glad Wes is signed. He is great.
Re: Welker Wisely Decides to Play
posted at 5/16/2012 12:23 AM EDT
IMO - The key to sustaining NFL Success :
A) Put the best TEAM together within the salary cap
( " not collecting talent " )
B) Manage your assets to minimize loss.
Add undervalued players ( mid level & minimum salaried vets )
Let your own mid level free agents walk
( the ones that want significant bumps )
Lock up for top dollar only the best of the best.
( Welker certainly fits the mold )
C) Target high character / lower risk rookies whenever possible ( captains ) , and don't be afraid to take low risk / high reward shots later on ( Cannon / Denard )
Sound familiar ? ...It's BB 101
2012 has been a relatively EZ cap to manage .
2013 has the potential to be a B*tch.
BB no doubt has a detailed plan for next season -
probably has one for 2014 , 2015 , and beyond.
It's obvious:
2013's key is locking up both Gronk & Hernandez .
So...
My gut tells me that no matter how much the Pats want to get something done to lock up Welker now - they're not going to jeopardize their future cap.
( see stocking up on potential Welker replacements )
As far as Welker finally signing goes ...
Could it be that he got nervous after seeing Suggs / Phil Taylor / Bowers all suffer devastating injuries this off season and went ...hmmmm ?
Re: Welker Wisely Decides to Play
posted at 5/16/2012 1:07 AM EDT
- TexasPat
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In Response to
Re: Welker Wisely Decides to Play:
Just another thought ... if Welker does sign a two or three year deal, that might be bad news for Edelman. I know everyone discounts JEs value as a receiver, but the only game he actually got to play as the starting slot he put up WW like numbers with 10 receptions. If Welker is signed for a few years and JE being on the last year of his rookie contract, his value to the team is diminished.
Posted by mia76
Edleman may be on his way out. That bar room incident certainly didn't endear him to BB. Plus, for whatever reason, he's failed to take that "next step" as a receiver. It's also not a good sign for him that the Patriots drafted slot receiver Jeremy Ebert in round 7, and signed FA slot man, Anthony Gonzalez.
Re: Welker Wisely Decides to Play
posted at 5/16/2012 1:09 AM EDT
- TexasPat
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In Response to
Re: Welker Wisely Decides to Play:
IMO - The key to sustaining NFL Success : A) Put the best TEAM together within the salary cap ( " not collecting talent " ) B) Manage your assets to minimize loss. Add undervalued players ( mid level & minimum salaried vets ) Let your own mid level free agents walk ( the ones that want significant bumps ) Lock up for top dollar only the best of the best. ( Welker certainly fits the mold ) C) Target high character / lower risk rookies whenever possible ( captains ) , and don't be afraid to take low risk / high reward shots later on ( Cannon / Denard ) Sound familiar ? ...It's BB 101 2012 has been a relatively EZ cap to manage . 2013 has the potential to be a B*tch. BB no doubt has a detailed plan for next season - probably has one for 2014 , 2015 , and beyond. It's obvious: 2013's key is locking up both Gronk & Hernandez . So... My gut tells me that no matter how much the Pats want to get something done to lock up Welker now - they're not going to jeopardize their future cap. ( see stocking up on potential Welker replacements ) As far as Welker finally signing goes ... Could it be that he got nervous after seeing Suggs / Phil Taylor / Bowers all suffer devastating injuries this off season and went ...hmmmm ?
Posted by CaptnFoxboro
Good point about the Pats looking ahead to potential Gronk and Hernandez deals, Captain. All the more reason I see this as Welker's last year as a Pat.
Re: Welker Wisely Decides to Play
posted at 5/16/2012 1:11 AM EDT
- TexasPat
- Posts: 2365
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In Response to
Re: Welker Wisely Decides to Play:
I disagree that Welker only has a couple of years left in him. The issue is the Patriots are running into is next season's free agency list for the team. As much as Gronkowski has been driving me crazy by acting inmature, both he and Hernandez are free agents and need to be resigned. The team is trying to look towards the future and save money to try and resign both players. And these are not the only Patriot free agents in 2013. The Patriot's are being financially wise with the salary cap. Only poorly run teams would have signed Welker to a three to a five year contract.
Posted by PatsGnome
Good post!
Re: Welker Wisely Decides to Play
posted at 5/16/2012 1:58 AM EDT
- mia76
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Umm - Gronk and Aaron aren't 'free' until 2014, but the hope is they get something done early. However, there is a huge list of free agents at the end of this coming year.
Re: Welker Wisely Decides to Play
posted at 5/16/2012 2:59 AM EDT
- bredbru
- Posts: 12461
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In Response to
Re: Welker Wisely Decides to Play:
In Response to Re: Welker Wisely Decides to Play : Yup - face is important on both sides. It also keeps WW in line with Wilfork in terms of yearly money, and I think that is also important for the team (and all the players.) I think they are both 'comparable' in terms of value, age, and being long term contributors. People are always accusing the Pats of being cheap, but you look at the FAs that come in every year and all you hear is they 'want to experience this franchise'. So I don't think the Pats' reputation among the 1700 NFL players is as a cheap organization, but rather as a well run one. Part of that is maintain a delicate balance in their salary structure. They don't 'embarrass' their long time stars by hiring the 'new guys' above what they have been paying the 'old guys'. It is a form of respect that I think the whole team appreciates.
Posted by mia76
and rare is there a team elsewhere that is able to do that.
its a nice luxury if you can accomplish it.
Re: Welker Wisely Decides to Play
posted at 5/16/2012 6:42 AM EDT
9.5 mil guaranteed is more than a lot of players make in a lifetime so let us all shut up and play some football!!!
Re: Welker Wisely Decides to Play
posted at 5/16/2012 7:58 AM EDT
Great post and responses. I am one that believes that we keep Wes for 3 years or at least 2. Brady and Wes play so well together. Wes really understands Brady and finds was to get open, I don't think he's your average player. He embodies the Patriots way. I'd give him the money based solely on the press conference about Rex's feet fetish, I loved it.... Esp. His delivery.
Re: Welker Wisely Decides to Play
posted at 5/16/2012 7:15 PM EDT
- digger0862
- Posts: 4061
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In Response to
Re: Welker Wisely Decides to Play:
Great post and responses. I am one that believes that we keep Wes for 3 years or at least 2. Brady and Wes play so well together. Wes really understands Brady and finds was to get open, I don't think he's your average player. He embodies the Patriots way. I'd give him the money based solely on the press conference about Rex's feet fetish, I loved it.... Esp. His delivery.
Posted by Chloedancer65
I agree with all of this. Wes is a special player with no signs of slowing down. He's a warrior.
All he's done in his 5 years as a Patriot is average 111 receptions, 1221 yards and 6 TDs per season. He's also a 4-time Pro Bowler and 2-time First-Team All-Pro. Oh, and he had surgery on a torn ACL and MCL in his knee and missed how many games?
The Patriots want him back and Wes wants to stay. He knows he will have to take a little less money to remain a Patriot. I believe a contract will get done.
Wes' 11 foot references was a classic. I'm sure Belichick had a good chuckle over it even though he had to reprimand Wes for it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiTEIbBPvQI
