Welker's Agent Screwed Up

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Welker's Agent Screwed Up

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

    His agent screwed up because his agent overshot his value and Denver can actually vut him after 2013 which would mean he lost almost 4 million after it's all said and done. And, he wanted to stay here, but was misled by a dumb or greedy agent.

    It won't work in Denver.   He knows it, too.




    This is what is publicly defined as a massive backpedal.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Welker's Agent Screwed Up

    In response to UD6's comment:

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

     

    As it turns out, Welker's deal is really only a 1 year deal for 6 million.  They can cut him next year and not have to pay the bonus he'd be due in March.

    Ouch.

    Welker unfortunately turned down a guaranteed 18 million over 2012 and 2013 and took only a guaranteed 15,5 in 2012 and 2013.

    Not a huge difference, but still.  Welker never really had leverage.

     




    Wait, if this is the case, didn't the pats really screw up?  If Welker could have been had for 1 year at 6 mill vs guaranteeing Amendola 10 mill on a 31 mill contract, don't you think the pats would have jumped at that? 

     

    And please don't spin.  There wasn't a person on this board that thought Amendola was a better option than an affordable Welker.  Not one.  No one.  None. 

     



    The Pats were more concerned with the cap hit than the actual cost I'm sure, and Amendola's deal is much more cap friendly than the Welker deal.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Welker's Agent Screwed Up

    In response to UD6's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

     

    In response to Brad34's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

     

    As it turns out, Welker's deal is really only a 1 year deal for 6 million.  They can cut him next year and not have to pay the bonus he'd be due in March.

    Ouch.

    Welker unfortunately turned down a guaranteed 18 million over 2012 and 2013 and took only a guaranteed 15,5 in 2012 and 2013.

    Not a huge difference, but still.  Welker never really had leverage.

     



    It's really a match made in heaven. You have 1 of the best regular seaon QB's of all time throwing to 1 of the best regular season receivers of all time. They will put up some big numbers in the regular season next year. Playoffs though they have both struggled.

     

     



    Manning is a very different passer than he was 5 years ago.    Keep in mind a lot of Welker's production came off of a chemistry with Brady.  Manning hasn't looked good with his accuracy underneath over the line of scrimmage in a while.

     

    Just saying. He'll help Denver, but I don't think it will be Brady/Welker level. 

     



    HOw so Russ?  How is Manning so different?  Break it down for us?  Isn't Brady different too? 

     

     



    Recently, I made a comment about Rusty not having "just a comment" but rather having every comment about something because he spams so much.  Here's an example.  I remember Rusty just saying recently that he thought Welker would be effective (it was more of a damning with faint praise comment) in Denver because Manning's arm could really only work well on short routes in the middle of the field.  Now, as is Russ' MO, he's saying Manning can't throw those routes. 

     

    This allows Russ to say, at some time in the future, I told ya so.  And he will be right even if he completely contradicts other comments he's made.  Uncredible!

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Welker's Agent Screwed Up

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    In response to UD6's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

     

    As it turns out, Welker's deal is really only a 1 year deal for 6 million.  They can cut him next year and not have to pay the bonus he'd be due in March.

    Ouch.

    Welker unfortunately turned down a guaranteed 18 million over 2012 and 2013 and took only a guaranteed 15,5 in 2012 and 2013.

    Not a huge difference, but still.  Welker never really had leverage.

     




    Wait, if this is the case, didn't the pats really screw up?  If Welker could have been had for 1 year at 6 mill vs guaranteeing Amendola 10 mill on a 31 mill contract, don't you think the pats would have jumped at that? 

     

    And please don't spin.  There wasn't a person on this board that thought Amendola was a better option than an affordable Welker.  Not one.  No one.  None. 

     

     



    The Pats were more concerned with the cap hit than the actual cost I'm sure, and Amendola's deal is much more cap friendly than the Welker deal.

     

     



    Possibly.  What are the terms of Amendola's deal?  What's his first year hit? And were the pats in such a difficult cap position that they could do the deal with Welker while still needed Brady to restructure?

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Welker's Agent Screwed Up

    Rusty has this weird idea that when the Pats make an offer and a player doesn't take it, the player is always making a financial mistake and is going to end up losing out.  This isn't really what happens.  The Pats are disciplined about determining their value for a player and not overpaying, but that doesn't mean that the Pats' valuation is always more than other teams' valuations or that players who the Pats do value highly can't sometimes push the Pats' offer upward. Seymour, Samuel, branch, Mankins all in different ways came out ahead compared to what the Pats originally offered.  Welker had less leverage because he wasn't as desired by the Pats or other teams, but he didn't end up in a substantially worse position by not taking the Pats' 2012 offer than he would have been in had he taken it, and depending on what happens for 2014, he may end up better off doing what he did.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Welker's Agent Screwed Up

    In response to UD6's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    In response to UD6's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

     

    As it turns out, Welker's deal is really only a 1 year deal for 6 million.  They can cut him next year and not have to pay the bonus he'd be due in March.

    Ouch.

    Welker unfortunately turned down a guaranteed 18 million over 2012 and 2013 and took only a guaranteed 15,5 in 2012 and 2013.

    Not a huge difference, but still.  Welker never really had leverage.

     




    Wait, if this is the case, didn't the pats really screw up?  If Welker could have been had for 1 year at 6 mill vs guaranteeing Amendola 10 mill on a 31 mill contract, don't you think the pats would have jumped at that? 

     

    And please don't spin.  There wasn't a person on this board that thought Amendola was a better option than an affordable Welker.  Not one.  No one.  None. 

     

     



    The Pats were more concerned with the cap hit than the actual cost I'm sure, and Amendola's deal is much more cap friendly than the Welker deal.

     

     



    Possibly.  What are the terms of Amendola's deal?  What's his first year hit? And were the pats in such a difficult cap position that they could do the deal with Welker while still needed Brady to restructure?

     



    My understanding is it's around 3 or 4 million as opposed to the 6 million cap cost of Welker's Broncos deal.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Welker's Agent Screwed Up

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to UD6's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

     

    As it turns out, Welker's deal is really only a 1 year deal for 6 million.  They can cut him next year and not have to pay the bonus he'd be due in March.

    Ouch.

    Welker unfortunately turned down a guaranteed 18 million over 2012 and 2013 and took only a guaranteed 15,5 in 2012 and 2013.

    Not a huge difference, but still.  Welker never really had leverage.

     




    Wait, if this is the case, didn't the pats really screw up?  If Welker could have been had for 1 year at 6 mill vs guaranteeing Amendola 10 mill on a 31 mill contract, don't you think the pats would have jumped at that? 

     

    And please don't spin.  There wasn't a person on this board that thought Amendola was a better option than an affordable Welker.  Not one.  No one.  None. 

     

     



    The Pats were more concerned with the cap hit than the actual cost I'm sure, and Amendola's deal is much more cap friendly than the Welker deal.

     




    This is just a cop out.  90% of this board said they wanted Welker back if it wasn't over $8 or $9 mill, heck the lowest I seen was $7 mill per year.  They could have got him back under that figure, now all of a sudden some of those same people are saying they are glad he is gone because of his age or because they are banking on his decline.  Going in the Pats were 9th on the list of teams with the most cap space.  No way a couple million in cap space to save Amendola is the issue here. 

    The issue is some of these people on here have a very hard time saying the Patriots made a mistake.  They have made mistakes in the past and these same people can't even admit to it.  Being a fan doesn't mean you have to agree with every move, teams make mistakes, this team is no different.  I wouldn't want to be a fan of any other team, I think BB and Kraft are great.  I don't agree with everything they do and I think they do make some mistakes that in the end ends up hurting the team.  This is one of them.

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from MichFan. Show MichFan's posts

    Re: Welker's Agent Screwed Up

    Just maybe Denver wanted to get Welker out of Patriot uniforn and really doesn't care how he performs for them.  it isn't costing them much.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Welker's Agent Screwed Up

    In response to UD6's comment:

    In response to UD6's comment:


    Recently, I made a comment about Rusty not having a comment just a comment but rather every comment about something because he spams so much.  Here's an example.  I remember Rusty just saying recently that he thought Welker would be effective (it was more of a damning with faint praise comment) in Denver because Manning's arm could really only work well on short routes in the middle of the field.  Now, as is Russ' MO, he's saying Manning can't throw those routes. 

     

    This allows Russ to say, at some time in the future, I told ya so.  And he will be right even if he completely contradicts other comments he's made.  Uncredible!


    You are 100% correct UD.  Rusty has a comment about everything, hence his post count being so freaking high.  He can never admit being wrong and he can never admit when the team makes a mistake.  It's almost like he is a paid poster on here to defend everything the Pats do.  He complains about people spamming the threads and boards yet you open up any given thread he he takes up over half the thread.  And get this... When he ends up being wrong he has another excuse of why he was wrong.  It's never ending with this guy. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Welker's Agent Screwed Up

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    In response to UD6's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

     

    As it turns out, Welker's deal is really only a 1 year deal for 6 million.  They can cut him next year and not have to pay the bonus he'd be due in March.

    Ouch.

    Welker unfortunately turned down a guaranteed 18 million over 2012 and 2013 and took only a guaranteed 15,5 in 2012 and 2013.

    Not a huge difference, but still.  Welker never really had leverage.

     




    Wait, if this is the case, didn't the pats really screw up?  If Welker could have been had for 1 year at 6 mill vs guaranteeing Amendola 10 mill on a 31 mill contract, don't you think the pats would have jumped at that? 

     

    And please don't spin.  There wasn't a person on this board that thought Amendola was a better option than an affordable Welker.  Not one.  No one.  None. 

     

     



    The Pats were more concerned with the cap hit than the actual cost I'm sure, and Amendola's deal is much more cap friendly than the Welker deal.

     

     




    This is just a cop out.  90% of this board said they wanted Welker back if it wasn't over $8 or $9 mill, heck the lowest I seen was $7 mill per year.  They could have got him back under that figure, now all of a sudden some of those same people are saying they are glad he is gone because of his age or because they are banking on his decline.  Going in the Pats were 9th on the list of teams with the most cap space.  No way a couple million in cap space to save Amendola is the issue here. 

     

    The issue is some of these people on here have a very hard time saying the Patriots made a mistake.  They have made mistakes in the past and these same people can't even admit to it.  Being a fan doesn't mean you have to agree with every move, teams make mistakes, this team is no different.  I wouldn't want to be a fan of any other team, I think BB and Kraft are great.  I don't agree with everything they do and I think they do make some mistakes that in the end ends up hurting the team.  This is one of them.




    I'm not saying what the Pats did was good or bad, I'm just explaining why they did it.  We'll have a better idea whether it was smart or dumb after the coming season.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Welker's Agent Screwed Up

    In response to jri37's comment:


    As Pat's fans we should all be able to recognize what happened here. The Pat's philosophy is that they rather part with a player who they percieve to be heading towards  their downside. They would rather do this a year or 2 earlier than be stuck with a player they percieve does not fit the value he is playing at.

     

    Whether they are right or wrong or whether you agree or disagree with this philosophy this is the way business is done at Patriot place.


    You are spot on jri37. 

    But I would like to add.. when they set a value on a guy, they rarely budge.  In their minds they are against negotiating.  They set a value, they stick to it.  They get their feelings hurt, they hold a grudge.  It's not a two way street here, it's their way or the highway.  It's two faults that have burned them in the past, yet they are willing to stick to it and not change. 

    People can say that's why they are so successful year in and year out and that's fine, I like them winning so much every regular season, the problem is these same faults have cost them SB championships and there are several people on here who have a very hard time admitting that.  They fall back on "well they are good every year and in the running every year".  Bottom line, good every year and in the running every year hasn't resulted in SB rings for a long while now.  Heck, I would take a mediocre season here and there if they could win a ring every few years.  

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Welker's Agent Screwed Up

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    I'm not saying what the Pats did was good or bad, I'm just explaining why they did it.  We'll have a better idea whether it was smart or dumb after the coming season.



    That's fine, that is a good post and a fair opinion. 

    My take on it is the Patriots ego gets in their way of making good decisions some times.  Apparently they are fine with this otherwise they would have changed long ago.  Welker has been in the dog house a few times and not accepting their deal last season was the end of the relationship.  The signed him to the tag because they weren't convinced they had the right people to replace him.  And in the end they were right, they didn't have the right people to replace him. 

    Instead of looking like they are caving into a player, they would rather save face, not tarnish their ego and take the chance on an unproven player, who is injury prone instead of bringing Welker back.  If it works, great! If not then it's another big blow, another lost opportunity, another bad decision they made.  As long as they are willing to live with bad decisions they made which they have been man enough to live with in the past so you gotta give them credit for that. 

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Welker's Agent Screwed Up

    In response to jri37's comment:


    TFB I don't disagree regarding how they negotiate. I think what they try and do is understand the trends in the league and then palce value on positions based on how the league and rules are dictating the game be played. 

     

    I agree to a fault their system might have cost them a SB in 2006 but they understood that and in that offseason they went out and loaded up on offensive skill players because at the time that is what the league was trending towards so they placed value for those spots.

    Like I said whether you agree or disagree with their philosophy that is how they do business. My opinion and it is only my opinion... I don't think they hold grudges or try and stick it to anyone. I think they try and understand what is going on throughout the league and then do what is best for the team. 

    I have a feeling in a couple of years we will be gnashing our teeth on how TB is going to be handled. If you think there is a lot of consternation now, just wait.



    Not looking forward to the day we have to have these discussions about TFB. 

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Welker's Agent Screwed Up

    I tend to agree with jri37 here.  I think the Pats try to take all emotion out of it and decide based purely on value as they perceive it.  They are neither vindictive nor sentimental.  They just do what they think maximizes value for the team.  I do think they sometimes make mistakes--and Welker could be a mistake--but I don't think they were trying to stick it to him, just as I don't think they'd make a decision just to be nice to a good guy.  They focus on value and value alone and try to take emotion (negative or positive) completely out of the equation.

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TSWFAN. Show TSWFAN's posts

    Re: Welker's Agent Screwed Up

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    In response to UD6's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

     

    As it turns out, Welker's deal is really only a 1 year deal for 6 million.  They can cut him next year and not have to pay the bonus he'd be due in March.

    Ouch.

    Welker unfortunately turned down a guaranteed 18 million over 2012 and 2013 and took only a guaranteed 15,5 in 2012 and 2013.

    Not a huge difference, but still.  Welker never really had leverage.

     




    Wait, if this is the case, didn't the pats really screw up?  If Welker could have been had for 1 year at 6 mill vs guaranteeing Amendola 10 mill on a 31 mill contract, don't you think the pats would have jumped at that? 

     

    And please don't spin.  There wasn't a person on this board that thought Amendola was a better option than an affordable Welker.  Not one.  No one.  None. 

     

     



    The Pats were more concerned with the cap hit than the actual cost I'm sure, and Amendola's deal is much more cap friendly than the Welker deal.

     

     




    This is just a cop out.  90% of this board said they wanted Welker back if it wasn't over $8 or $9 mill, heck the lowest I seen was $7 mill per year.  They could have got him back under that figure, now all of a sudden some of those same people are saying they are glad he is gone because of his age or because they are banking on his decline.  Going in the Pats were 9th on the list of teams with the most cap space.  No way a couple million in cap space to save Amendola is the issue here. 

     

    The issue is some of these people on here have a very hard time saying the Patriots made a mistake.  They have made mistakes in the past and these same people can't even admit to it.  Being a fan doesn't mean you have to agree with every move, teams make mistakes, this team is no different.  I wouldn't want to be a fan of any other team, I think BB and Kraft are great.  I don't agree with everything they do and I think they do make some mistakes that in the end ends up hurting the team.  This is one of them.




    Gosh, don't talk sense to these louts, they are incapable of reasoning.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from p-mike. Show p-mike's posts

    Re: Welker's Agent Screwed Up

    Somebody  early in the thread mentioned the "binky" factor, and I read a blurb in my local rag about Brady being less than enthusiastic about this particular move (and perhaps about not being consulted?), but the bottom line is that it's a business decision that fits New England's modus operandi and -- Hey! -- if it makes you feel better, you can always be one of those Fox and the Grapes guys who only remembers that one particular pass Welker didn't catch.

    Cry no tears for Wes Welker. You can make the case that Tom Brady made him who he is and that if Amendola could stay on the field (he won't), Brady could make him who Wes Welker is, too.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from TSWFAN. Show TSWFAN's posts

    Re: Welker's Agent Screwed Up

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    In response to UD6's comment:

     

    In response to UD6's comment:


    Recently, I made a comment about Rusty not having a comment just a comment but rather every comment about something because he spams so much.  Here's an example.  I remember Rusty just saying recently that he thought Welker would be effective (it was more of a damning with faint praise comment) in Denver because Manning's arm could really only work well on short routes in the middle of the field.  Now, as is Russ' MO, he's saying Manning can't throw those routes. 

     

    This allows Russ to say, at some time in the future, I told ya so.  And he will be right even if he completely contradicts other comments he's made.  Uncredible!

     


    You are 100% correct UD.  Rusty has a comment about everything, hence his post count being so freaking high.  He can never admit being wrong and he can never admit when the team makes a mistake.  It's almost like he is a paid poster on here to defend everything the Pats do.  He complains about people spamming the threads and boards yet you open up any given thread he he takes up over half the thread.  And get this... When he ends up being wrong he has another excuse of why he was wrong.  It's never ending with this guy. 

     



    You need to put the"king" on ignore and decapitate him as I have.

     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from OutofTownPATS Fan. Show OutofTownPATS Fan's posts

    Re: Welker's Agent Screwed Up

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

    As it turns out, Welker's deal is really only a 1 year deal for 6 million.  They can cut him next year and not have to pay the bonus he'd be due in March.

    Ouch.

    Welker unfortunately turned down a guaranteed 18 million over 2012 and 2013 and took only a guaranteed 15,5 in 2012 and 2013.

    Not a huge difference, but still.  Welker never really had leverage.



    " we are moving on... Amondola is next on our schedule..."

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Welker's Agent Screwed Up

    jri - you deserve the medal for reasoned thought and honesty. 

    While I appreciate the fandom of the rubber stamp crowd, no team is right all of the time.  Some make fewer mistakes than others, and I do think the pats fall into this area which is good for pats fans. 

    But for those who do (rusty) to defend every pats decision while panning every other team's decision is disturbing. 

    Look, as a colts fan, they've entered a new era. The colts virtually never participated in this part of the free agent market, but here they are picking up players left and right.  Now, I do believe that the team has gotten more talented through these acquisitions, but the general thought is they've overpaid.  Maybe so. 

    Just letting you know, your thoughtful perspective should be noted.

     
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